New Rodenstock HRSW coming - 135/140mm!

[TheDude]

Sounds to me that Rody got a Copal shutter that was just a tiny amount thinner than the spec so instead of tossing it they added a couple of small spacers (easily could have been just one thicker spacer). What would they ever do if the Copal was too thick? Spacers only add to the distance between the two elements. Why don't you remove the spacers and see if it has any effect on lens performance? I'm not a lens designer but I have to think that there is a spacing window that allows for the rear and front elements to exist for spec performance. There are just too many variables for spacing that would cause a nightmare if this wasn't true.

Victor

Possible that the spacing of the Digaron lens elements are designed with spacers in mind in order to be able to compensate for any manufacturing variances of the Copal shutter. But this is pure speculation on my side.
I mounted the lens elements of my 23mm Digaron to a different, not calibrated, Copal shutter and I couldn’t see a difference in the enlarged live focus view of my CFV-50c.

 

[TheDude]

Hype......Hype......Hype. Don't believe everything you read. These people are in business to make MONEY, any way they can.

All will be OK..... take a deep breat.

The manufacture of Copal shutters was discontinued years ago!

 

[vjbelle]

I'm well aware of that. The copal shutter is very archaic and its use on a technical camera is cumbersome at best. Alpa is claiming to have some sort of solution which will come just in time for the eminent release of a global sensor shutter. Alpa's solution will also be more than just expensive it will be insultingly expensive. They sure aren't getting any more of my money. Also, don't get caught up with all of the doomsday rhetoric from them which is used to support their very high prices.

As I previously said, there are so many other solutions around that for that one particular shot just use a different camera. My solution is to use only the 'E' shutter on my 3100 and if a situation comes along that doesn't lend itself to its limitations I'll just use another camera such as my GFX. If I'm looking at a scene that just has to have more pixels I can take a portrait three shot and almost have 100MP in 4X3 format. Of course the new chip is just around the corner...... I think these are sad times for Alpa.

Cheers......

Victor

 

[Steve Hendrix]

I'm well aware of that. The copal shutter is very archaic and its use on a technical camera is cumbersome at best. Alpa is claiming to have some sort of solution which will come just in time for the eminent release of a global sensor shutter. Alpa's solution will also be more than just expensive it will be insultingly expensive. They sure aren't getting any more of my money. Also, don't get caught up with all of the doomsday rhetoric from them which is used to support their very high prices.

As I previously said, there are so many other solutions around that for that one particular shot just use a different camera. My solution is to use only the 'E' shutter on my 3100 and if a situation comes along that doesn't lend itself to its limitations I'll just use another camera such as my GFX. If I'm looking at a scene that just has to have more pixels I can take a portrait three shot and almost have 100MP in 4X3 format. Of course the new chip is just around the corner...... I think these are sad times for Alpa.

Cheers......

Victor

On the other hand, I consider the dawn of on-sensor electronic exposure activation to be a big plus for Alpa (as well as Cambo, Arca Swiss, etc.). For many, it simplifies the use of a technical shift/view camera, creating more precision, and eliminating quirky cables. Products like the Sinar eShutter (that is already part of some Alpa solutions) address an assortment of issues for some photographers, particularly for studio photographers using strobe.

If a product sucks, pan it. But if it's not for you, that does not automatically de-legitimize it for other photographers. Options are nothing but positive. Yes, I am guilty of being pro-solution.


Steve Hendrix/CI

 

[vjbelle]

Steve..... so good of you to chime in. As one of your customers I take a tad umbrage at anything you posted after the word 'strobe'. Of course you are trying to defend the exorbitant Alpa prices but from mpov they are indefensible.... especially the extra kick for lenses. I've given a lot of money to Alpa but no more. I've earned the right to criticize their pricing and if in any way it influences anyone considering purchasing something so outlandishly priced then some good has come of it. There are other solutions (some of which you sell) that are not only as good but substantially less expensive. I do hope you point out some of those other options to new customers...

Cheers......

Victor

 

[TheDude]

Alpa is claiming to have some sort of solution which will come just in time for the eminent release of a global sensor shutter. Alpa's solution will also be more than just expensive it will be insultingly expensive.

Really need only a variable aperture upfront. Ideally something that also can communicate with the upcoming new digital backs.

I am a bit pessimistic generally about the digital technical camera market. May have already seen its heyday.

 

[vjbelle]

You have good cause to be pessimistic. I am also......

Victor

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Steve..... so good of you to chime in. As one of your customers I take a tad umbrage at anything you posted after the word 'strobe'. Of course you are trying to defend the exorbitant Alpa prices but from mpov they are indefensible.... especially the extra kick for lenses. I've given a lot of money to Alpa but no more. I've earned the right to criticize their pricing and if in any way it influences anyone considering purchasing something so outlandishly priced then some good has come of it. There are other solutions (some of which you sell) that are not only as good but substantially less expensive. I do hope you point out some of those other options to new customers...

Cheers......

Victor

Hi Victor -

I didn't really address any feelings you have about the pricing that Alpa charges, nor did I mean to. I'm not a defender of pricing - you are free to feel the way you do about it, any thoughts I have on their pricing are irrelevant. I'm a proponent of solutions, especially well made solutions, which is what Alpa creates. They have an outstanding legacy in terms of the quality of their solutions.

But as you correctly stated, the solutions I propose do cover a wide range of budgets. In your case, I feel it is fair to say that I was a very early and continuing champion of the benefits of the Cambo Actus and indeed have made it a pretty specific focus of my attention, illustrated by the 5 articles I've written on the product line.

https://captureintegration.com/first-look-cambo-actus/
https://captureintegration.com/cambo-actus-db-big-changes-for-a-tiny-view-camera/
https://captureintegration.com/first-look-cambo-actus-ef-aperture-controller-for-canon/
https://captureintegration.com/seeing-sideways-with-the-cambo-actus/
https://captureintegration.com/breaking-news-cambo-rear-base-tilt-upgrade/


Steve Hendrix/CI

 

[stngoldberg]

I have attempted to digest everyone’s opinions on an ES’s and the latest and greatest Rodie lenses and Alpha cameras.
I am stuck with an old fashioned Arca Swiss rm3di and 6 copal shutter lenses, 32 Rodie, 60 Schneider, 90 Rodie, 120 Schneider, 210 Schneider and 300 fujion; however, I implore you not to feel sorry for me because that camera and those lenses along with my 100mpx Phase One back have afforded me endless hours of pleasure and some marvelous images.
I know Steve Hendrix will not be upset to learn that I bought most of my gear from his company, deservedly so, because their service is outstanding (thank you Chris Snipes).
I try to chase the best light whenever available, and realize that my best images have less to do with great gear and more to do with great light!
Stanley

 

[TheDude]

...
I am stuck with an old fashioned Arca Swiss rm3di and 6 copal shutter lenses, 32 Rodie, 60 Schneider, 90 Rodie, 120 Schneider, 210 Schneider and 300 fujion; however, I implore you not to feel sorry for me ... along with my 100mpx Phase One back

And we won’t.

But we will fell sorry for the person who, for example, wants to replicate your lens selection. Schneider and Fujinon are no longer in the "Large Format" technical lens business. Rodenstock lenses will soon only be available with eShutter, which will add (at least) $2000 to each lens and the need for an external controller.
Buying used is very much a hit-and-miss business (looking since years for a used 50mm Digaron-W).

 

[vjbelle]

Its not necessary to 'only' supply lenses with the eShutter. The shutterless aperture enabled spacer that Cambo uses would work just fine on many current and for sure future cameras. Cambo doesn't make that unit but its offered in combination with a Rody lens on the Cambo site. I also don't see why Rody can't sell the lenses 'Naked'. Whats it to them? A sale is a sale. Its troubling that they are now the only game in town and a very tiny company with goods being made for a very tiny market. That's why they can charge whatever they want. I remember seeing some post hinting that Rody had out-maneuvered Schneider forcing them out of the market. Nothing could be further from the truth. Schneider, who dwarfs Rody, chose to get out of that market. Low profit and very few sales so why bother. I'm glad I have all of my lenses.....

Victor

 

[TheDude]

The shutterless aperture enabled spacer that Cambo uses ... in combination with a Rody lens on the Cambo site.

Couldn't find it. A link would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. Rodenstock recommends as a working aperture for most Digarons only f-stop 5.6 (For some, a working aperture of 5.6 - 8 is recommended). Why not simply have a fixed aperture of f-stop 5.6!

(Strange if we would be loosing the ability/option to select the aperture while smartphones are starting to get variable aperture (Galaxy Note 9)).

 

[vjbelle]

You can find it at: https://www.cambo.com/en/search/?S12=st&S17=st&S18=st&S19=st&S20=st&st=ACTAR

These are the Actar lenses and one Rody lens - all of them have a shutterless aperture which is a stand alone aperture that is the same depth as a copal 0 shutter. I would love to get my hands on a couple of them. The 105mm Rody is pricy as usual. C1 has a 6K+ price tag on it. I haven't checked with Linhoff as I'm not interested in the lens.

Victor

 

[GrahamWelland]

My 23mm Digaron front lens element positively has two (tiny) spacers. I have been told that they are individually selected for each lens.

None of my other "analog or "digital" lenses ( Apo-Sironar Digital Rodenstock and Apo Digitar T Schneider) have such spacers.

When I had my Rodie 23mm on Alpa/Copal had a single shim between the front element and shutter. My experience was the same.

 

[TheDude]

You can find it at: https://www.cambo.com/en/search/?S12=st&S17=st&S18=st&S19=st&S20=st&st=ACTAR

These are the Actar lenses and one Rody lens - all of them have a shutterless aperture which is a stand alone aperture that is the same depth as a copal 0 shutter. I would love to get my hands on a couple of them. The 105mm Rody is pricy as usual. C1 has a 6K+ price tag on it. I haven't checked with Linhoff as I'm not interested in the lens.

Victor

Thanks. But not sure how much Actus Camera Lenses are a viable option for medium "Large Format" technical photography, especially 645 format. The promotional material makes it clear the the lenses were designed and optimized for a 24x36mm sensor size.
Not clear whether the Actus aperture mechanism would also work for a Digaron lens.

 

[vjbelle]

Yes..... you may be right with regards to most of the Actar's.... but the Rody must have a larger image circle. The only interest I ever had was with regards to the aperture mechanism. I'm kind of surprised that the Chinese haven't looked into this. If anyone could make something like this they could.

Victor

Edit: FWIW the Rody has 125mm image circle.

 

[GrahamWelland]

Yes..... you may be right with regards to most of the Actar's.... but the Rody must have a larger image circle. The only interest I ever had was with regards to the aperture mechanism. I'm kind of surprised that the Chinese haven't looked into this. If anyone could make something like this they could.

Victor

Edit: FWIW the Rody has 125mm image circle.

Well heck, they've already ripped off the Actus system! (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cambo-Actu...or-Digital-Back-Magazine-DB-NEW-/162560547106)

 

[TheDude]

but the Rody must have a larger image circle

Edit: FWIW the Rody has 125mm image circle.

Do you mean the ACTAR-105? Is this lens based on the 105mm f/5.6 Apo-Sironar Digital Rodenstock? (The Apo-Sironar Digital line has been discontinued.)

 

[vjbelle]

Yes.... I believe so. I don't follow the Rody lines other than the SW's but obviously lenses are around. You can see it for sale on C1's site at their store. Very pricey..... The fact that the lenses are 'permanently' mounted to the lens board is meaningless to me. The lens screws into the aperture mechanism just like a copal 0 with the rear element on the other side of the lens board. There are three screws that hold the aperture to the lens board. Easily removed. As I said previously the Chinese could easily make an aperture that would perfectly mimic the depth of a copal 0 and they could optionally offer any kind of blade format and aperture range needed. I wish they would.

Victor

 

[TheDude]

I wonder whether in a few years, business schools will discuss our situation how the discontinuation of one small but critical item, the Copal shutter, spelled the end of a whole segment of a specialized camera & accessories cottage industry.