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Thread: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    I've been using the H&Y system for the last several months. I had not heard of it before reading Tim Parkin's very thorough review of filter systems at OnLandscape (paid content).



    The real reason this system interested me was the opportunity to create a LCC card and dark frame that attached magnetically. Technical camera lenses are now supplied without Copal shutters, so there is no way to close the lens for a dark frame. That is not much of an issue when you are shooting without filters; just add the lens cap and shoot the dark frame. Add a filter, especially a carefully positioned GND, and it really becomes a problem. You have to remove the filter holder, cover the lens, tell the back to go ahead and take its dark frame, then finally re-attached the filter holder for subsequent photos.

    Same difficulty is associated with shooting an LCC.

    There are a few characteristics associated with the H&Y system that make it the best solution I know of for this problem:
    1. The magnetic filter frames attach to the outside holder in a light-tight way
    2. You don’t have to slide them in and out; they just attach magnetically to the front face of the holder
    3. H&Y sells empty magnetic frames. They are meant to hold 100x100 or 100x150mm filters you already own, but you can fill them with any 2mm thick material.


    So, after sourcing some 2mm black ABS and finding an extra LCC card I went to work. 2mm thick Black ABS can be found at Amazon in seconds, so cutting a 100x150mm piece was quick work with a utility knife and straight edge. The std 100x100mm LCC cards are more like 2.5mm thick, so I had to mill down the edges slightly to fit, although you can cram the un-milled, raw LCC card in the frame if necessary.
    In the field, dark frames are just as fast, if not a little faster than putting on a lens cap for dark frames. I tested for light leaks and found none even @ 60 seconds / f/4.5 / 100 ISO in mid-day sun. I did find some faint light leaks on the pinch lens cap I’ve been using for a few years...

    You don't even have to remove the GND to take the dark frame. The ABS-filled magnetic frame attaches to the face of the applied GND with no noticeable light leaks. Of course for the LCC you do still have to remove the GND, which you want to do for a LCC regardless.





    John Ngai and I worked on a similar solution for his Wine Country vaults. He can comment on its application with that system.

    Here is a short review of the H&Y system if anyone is interested:
    HYFilter.pdf

    Dave
    Last edited by dchew; 8th September 2019 at 11:23.
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    I like the concept. I use the magnetic filters to swap on my full spectrum GFX. Now I see possibilities on the tech cam....

    Am I correct that when using several filters in the H&Y filter system---the profile is or should be smaller (thinner) than a filter system such as the Wine Country Holder?

    The filter holder itself looks smaller than the Wine Country holder as well.....



    Hate you. Hate Dante.


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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Am I correct that when using several filters in the H&Y filter system---the profile is or should be smaller (thinner) than a filter system such as the Wine Country Holder?

    The filter holder itself looks smaller than the Wine Country holder as well
    I think that is correct, Ken. I’ve never used the WC filters. When you stack either 100x100 or 100x150 filters with this system, they just stick together with no separation. Each filter is about 2.5mm thick.

    I’ll measure the drop-in ND/CPL filter slot tonight.

    The holder is definitely smaller that the Wine Country.

    Dave
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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Ken,
    Filter holder is 7/16" (11mm) thick from end of lens threads to front face where the GND filters attach magnetically flush. That includes the filter adapter ring and the space where the drop-in ND/CPL goes.
    4-7/8" (124mm) at the widest part
    4-3/8" (111mm) tall

    Each GND filter is ~1/8" (3mm) thick

    One note about this system that I mentioned in the linked pdf: I do not use 100x100 square ND filters, so do not know how well those work. I use the drop-in ND/CPL filters that come with this system, along with the 100x150 GND filters. They really are a dream to use in the field.

    Dave
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Dave was kind enough to send me an LCC and dark card trimmed down to fit the Wine Country Camera filter vaults.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I did some testing this afternoon in the bright afternoon light (sunny 16 conditions).

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    This is what I observed:

    5 sec exposure @ f/4 - L values = ~0 throughout the image frame.

    30 sec exposure @ f/4 - L values = 0.2~1

    60 sec exposure @ f/4 - L values = 0.6~3

    Draping a black lens cloth over the top seemed to help but there was still a smidgen of light coming through at the lower corners, which I attribute to the little clamps at 4 and 8 o'clock that hold the circular polarizer and show small gaps.

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    I normally use Breakthrough ND filters, which have gaskets affixed to the back side that I'm guessing prevent any light intrusion, so I don't think these results should be extrapolated to the light-tightness of ND filters.

    My bottom line: I'd be comfortable using the dark card except when doing extended exposures in bright light. However there *could* be an issue with light intrusion when pushing long exposures under daylight conditions. There may also be a little fumbling if all three filter slots are filled (I find the vaults in adjacent slots interfere with each other's movement). And of course I forgot to do the critical control experiment of testing how well a slip-on lens cap performs . In any case, both the dark card and LCC will remain in my filter kit - thanks, Dave!

    John

    P.S. When Dave first told me about the H&Y setup, I was all ready to ditch my WCC for the much sleeker H&Y system, but for some reason I talked myself out of it. Now after doing today's little test, I'm back on the fence. Damn you, Dante!
    Last edited by jng; 8th September 2019 at 15:46.
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Thank you Dave for your thorough user experience review.

    The LCC addition is attractive to me. I have an older LEE system with the wide angle shade and GRDs, but have been using seven5 ND filters lately since my most used lenses are SK's with 40.5 and 52 threads, and want to save space in my camera bag. I have been casually looking at what else is out there and thank you for linking to OnLandscape for reviews as I am a longtime subscriber.

    Some of what I see looks too bulky for my needs. I am staying with my ALPAs + SK lenses for the long run since I love my system and want to find a filter system that is not so bulky. I find the LEE wide angle shade with filter system too big anymore, so reading your review and watching a few of Tim's videos have got my interest in the H&Y System.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    ...I have an older LEE system with the wide angle shade and GRDs, but have been using seven5 ND filters lately since my most used lenses are SK's with 40.5 and 52 threads, and want to save space in my camera bag...
    Hi Darr,
    You and I both have gravitated to Sk's. I don't think anything beats the seven5 system for size. I too had the old Lee system w/hood. I am not happy with any lens shade solution out there. The Lee hood is probably the most popular, but I find it too cumbersome. I've settled for manual flagging with the removable ICU lid.

    Dave
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Dave and John (fellow enablers in Purgatory)

    Thank you for your efforts and review on the H&Y filter holder system. I like personal user reports and reviews, which are probably more reliable and trustworthy coming from a known GetDPI member and Pig alum. Efforts like these should be published articles on the GetDPI landing page!

    I'm leaning towards purchasing the H&Y system, probably just a limited kit at first as a "travel filter system" and see if it is worthwhile to replace my Wine Country Filter system. I may just keep both.

    I really like the compactness that this system provides over the Wine Country.

    Not exactly inexpensive----but I see the H&Y filter system as a justifiable consolation purchase since I'm not buying the Phase XT.

    Ken
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Arrgggghhhh. Ken you are about to cost me a lot of $$. Again. (but you can share the blame with Dave)

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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    I really like the idea of a magnetic system: now I can store my grads on the refrigerator.

    Seriously, nice review, Dave.
    Will

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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I really like the idea of a magnetic system: now I can store my grads on the refrigerator.

    Seriously, nice review, Dave.


    They should just barely fit a 4x6 print. Makes for a nice black frame.
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Not exactly inexpensive----
    Ken
    No they aren’t. The holder does come with a lot of stuff, including the CPL. That’s actually a bit of a problem I don’t like: I don’t know of a way to buy just a holder without a CPL. I’d buy a spare holder as backup to store at home, but not for another $230.

    Also, they have an interesting approach to the lighter ND filters, only offering them with CPL built-in. Makes sense with their system and I cannot think of a disadvantage. Still, curious.

    Dave
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Amazon Prime has the H&Y for $185.

    That's a nice savings over the $229 price at B&H.

    John, think of that savings as getting a *free* magnetic frame with the difference.

    I need to get a 100 x 100 LCC to fit a frame now. No need for the black ABS, but maybe later if I acquire a new lens.

    Ken

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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    I might have a spare. I will look later today.

    Dave
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    I was set to pick this up until I saw that I couldn't get a 62mm ring and there's no way I'd use a step up. Once the 62 is offered I'll be all over this...
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Amazon Prime has the H&Y for $185.

    That's a nice savings over the $229 price at B&H.

    John, think of that savings as getting a *free* magnetic frame with the difference.

    I need to get a 100 x 100 LCC to fit a frame now. No need for the black ABS, but maybe later if I acquire a new lens.

    Ken
    Ken,

    You're really not helping me here...

    John
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    I was set to pick this up until I saw that I couldn't get a 62mm ring and there's no way I'd use a step up. Once the 62 is offered I'll be all over this...
    I know they make them, but the only place I've seen the whole list is on the UK distributor's site:


    https://handyfilters.com/product/ada...-100mm-holder/

    H&Y's site needs some work:
    http://hy-filters.com

    And they don't show the same range of rings. I reached out to the UK distributor to see what the deal is.

    Dave
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Don,

    Tom, from the UK distributor handyfilters.com, confirmed all the rings on their site are available. He may be sending me a discount code for this thread; if he does, I will post it up. I have no connection with handyfilters.com or H&Y. I am only a customer.

    Dave
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    Don,

    Tom, from the UK distributor handyfilters.com, confirmed all the rings on their site are available. He may be sending me a discount code for this thread; if he does, I will post it up. I have no connection with handyfilters.com or H&Y. I am only a customer.

    Dave
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    You're not just a customer. You're an enabler.

    That’s very kind of you, Ken. The highest compliment in these parts.
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    From Tom @ handyfilters.com:

    Hi Dave

    The discount code I have created for you is: GETDPI

    It will give a 15% discount on the handyfilters.com website. The coupon will be active for two weeks (until the 29th September).
    For anyone purchasing from outside of the EU, VAT (20%) will be refunded once the items have been dispatched with our courier.
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Thanks for reaching out to H&Y, Dave.

    It looks like the listed prices include VAT. Gonna have to dig out the calculator to figure out the approximate pricing after VAT refund and 15% GetDPI discount and add shipping estim.


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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Oh boy, I'm in trouble....
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Mild word of warning: getting a filter into the empty magnetic frames can be VERY hard. I had to throw out my first attempt and clean a lot of glue off the filter.

    I am not much of a filter user, but this being Dante's abode, I have three sets. (Otherwise, how can you know which is best?).

    Wine Country is fine, but large and heavy, OTOH, it's the only one that will fit on my Leica S24.

    Firecrest Ultra are great, light, and compact, but you're stuck with your polarizer yes/no decision unless you bring a few carriers with you. Filter changing is still hard for me, so I leave a 10x and a grad permanently mounted (I don't go out a lot in dim light).

    H&Y are easiest in the field, the drop in circular filters are great, as you can add or remove a polarizer without disassembly. Waiting on a drop-in 10 stop to limit the need for stacked filters in front. Stacked magnetic frames were not light-tight in a 2-minute, 10 stop + 6 stop direct sunlight exposure. Not something I'm likely to do other than as a test. If I regularly need 16 stops, I'll get a 16 stop filter.

    Just some random observations from someone with almost no knowledge or experience, so you should probably ignore everything I just said.



    Matt

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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Mild word of warning: getting a filter into the empty magnetic frames can be VERY hard. I had to throw out my first attempt and clean a lot of glue off the filter.
    ...
    Stacked magnetic frames were not light-tight in a 2-minute, 10 stop + 6 stop direct sunlight exposure. Not something I'm likely to do other than as a test. If I regularly need 16 stops, I'll get a 16 stop filter.

    Matt
    These are great points. In the review, I discussed how difficult empty frames are to assemble. I had to trim some areas to get things together for my LCC and black frame sheets.

    As mentioned above, I have not used the 100x100 ND filters, nor do I intend to. If someone wants/needs square NDs, I don't think this system is the right choice.

    Dave
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    As mentioned above, I have not used the 100x100 ND filters, nor do I intend to. If someone wants/needs square NDs, I don't think this system is the right choice.Dave
    Thanks for the heads up as you just saved me money!
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Thanks for the heads up as you just saved me money!
    I should describe this in a bit more detail. In my opinion, this system is really set up for the round ND filters, polarizers and the 100x150 GNDs. The drop-in ND/CPL design is a great feature that doesn't apply to 100x100 NDs. The top and bottom edges of the 100x100 ND frame sit right at the edge of the filter holder. I put a black ABS sheet into a 100x100 holder, and although I did not see light leaks, the seal does not look all that robust and you have to position the 100x100 filter correctly in the vertical position. Not difficult, just takes some care. In comparison, the round drop-in ND filters are a breeze. As Matt mentioned, I don't think stacking square ND filters is reliably light tight.

    It's not that the square NDs don't work fine by themselves, I just think the round ones work better in this system. None of this applies to the traditional 100x150 GNDs; those are great to use in the field.

    Dave
    Last edited by dchew; 16th September 2019 at 10:29.
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    I should describe this in a bit more detail. In my opinion, this system is really set up for the round ND filters, polarizers and the 100x150 GNDs. The drop-in ND/CPL design is a great feature that doesn't apply to 100x100 NDs. The top and bottom edges of the 100x100 ND frame sits right at the edge of the filter holder. I put a black ABS sheet into a 100x100 holder, and although I did not see light leaks, the seal does not look all that robust and you have to position the 100x100 filter correctly in the vertical position. Not difficult, just takes some care. In comparison, the round drop-in ND filters are a breeze. As Matt mentioned, I don't think stacking square ND filters is reliably light tight.

    It's not that the square NDs don't work fine by themselves, I just think the round ones work better in this system. None of this applies to the traditional 100x150 GNDs; those are great to use in the field.

    Dave
    Dave,

    Thank you, BTW, for your clear and informative review. I shoot wide a lot, and don't like the polarizer/sky interaction. If H&Y had non-polarizing drop-ins at less than 10 stops, I'd be thrilled.

    Matt
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Actually, here’s a question which, if no one has an answer, I’ll explore.

    Suppose I have a polarizing filter buried deep in my filter setup and I want to shoot an image with a wide blue sky. Is there an angle I can set the filter so as to eliminate or greatly reduce the sky darkening band?

    Best,

    Matt

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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Actually, here’s a question which, if no one has an answer, I’ll explore.

    Suppose I have a polarizing filter buried deep in my filter setup and I want to shoot an image with a wide blue sky. Is there an angle I can set the filter so as to eliminate or greatly reduce the sky darkening band?

    Best,

    Matt
    I'd love to find that angle, too. I spent an afternoon in Canyonlands testing every orientation I could with a 40 on the Cambo [not ultra-wide, but wide enough to present the problem], and I could never eliminate the polarizer banding. I was using a WCC 150 system that day. The sky was cloudless, so I was not without remedy in Photoshop, but it wasn't my preferred outcome.
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Here is a lighthearted video of the "hands-free" black frame and LCC process.


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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    It took me awhile----but I finally decided to get the H&Y system.

    I've ordered a Fuji XT3 as a small portable travel camera and the Wine Country System is just woefully mismatched here. I almost got the Lee Seven5 system, as I love the size and portability, but it appears there may be slight vignetting on some Fuji X wide angle lenses.

    Fingers-crossed that working with the empty H&Y filter frames doesn't give me problems.

    ken

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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Fingers-crossed that working with the empty H&Y filter frames doesn't give me problems.

    ken
    I had a few choice words when trying to get the frames onto my black and white plastic. Here's hoping I just had a bad batch. I had to trim down the back of the male end from every piece.

    Dave
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    You can count me in as well after listening to the siren call of the H&Y

    Ken and I have spent countless hours on the phone and texting back and forth regarding the H&Y. Should we or shouldn't we. I broke first ordering a simple empty 100 square to test just how hard it'd be to put a filter in corectly. Still don't know as I won't get it until tommorrow (thanks Amazon).

    I removed the wooden handles from the Wine Country making it somewhat smaller however I ended up buying a Fuji 8-16 for my XT-3 and I had to look for a suitable filter kit. The H&Y seems to fit the bill without the need of any superglue (please don't ask ).

    I've watched the videos and listened to Dante and decided to answer the siren call of the H&Y. The FH-100 should be here shortly then I can test out the H&Y on our upcoming trip to Death Valley. I think I'll be joining Dante there as I test the H&Y on the Fuji system.
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    I had a few choice words when trying to get the frames onto my black and white plastic. Here's hoping I just had a bad batch. I had to trim down the back of the male end from every piece.

    Dave
    I did not manage to get a single empty frame to work. I did manage to get glue on some filters from other manufacturers.

    Matt

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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    If you look at the top/bottom pieces, the part that is supposed to insert into the side rails doesn't fit. The top part in this image is what I trim off:



    It still has to be wrestled in there even after trimming, but at least I had half a chance getting it in there. I have no idea how it is supposed to fit with that bump on there.


    Dave
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    ...and the short videos I have watched make it look so easy

    I hope this works out...

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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    ...and the short videos I have watched make it look so easy I hope this works out...
    Agree, watched 2 different videos on how to and both seem simple enough. I'm still waiting for Amazon to deliver today. I'll share my findings just as soon as I can. Fingers crossed....
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Ken, Don:

    If you rub butter on the filter first, this will prevent the glue from sticking to the glass.

    Happy new year!

    John
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by jng View Post
    Ken, Don:If you rub butter on the filter first, this will prevent the glue from sticking to the glass. Happy new year!John
    Thanks for the tip John; I can just hear Sandy when I tell her I need to small amount of butter...
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Don,

    Just don't mention "butter" and "Ken" in the same sentence, and you'll be fine.

    Good luck with the new filter setup!

    John
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    :rotfl:

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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    I just finished placing a filter into a 100x100. I had the choice between a Lee 6-stop and Singh-Ray LB Color Enhancer test fitting both and decided on the Singh Ray. I'll be ordering more empty holders later and will add more filters then.

    Thought I'd do a little show and tell...
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    The package is nice and included just about everything I needed.
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    While they included a plastic toothpick I opted on using a pair of tweezers to help in pulling off the tape.

    The top and bottom have little plastic nubs at the ends with a channel running in-between for the filter. The nubs snap into the top and bottom of the sides. Or at least they're supposed to. I ran into an issue with the little nubs not being totaling cleaned at the end and had to trim off the excess in order to make them fit.
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Once I got all the parts working correctly the rest was easy. I installed the top the the sides finishing with the bottom.
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    The finished product is here.
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    All in all not too difficult once I figured it was the over sized nubs causing the issue. Not certain if this will happen the next time however I'll be on the watch just in case.

    I have a selection of Lee and Singh Ray filters that I normally use with the Whine Country and found that from the sampling of them they all fit nicely.

    Just be aware that you may have to trim the connecting nubs a bit to make them snap in place. I also found I had not need for butter other than the baked potato
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Those nubs are what my little drawing was referring to. Glad you got it together.

    Looks good!

    Dave
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    Re: H&Y Filter System with a Technical Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    The package is nice and included just about everything I needed.
    Kinda perplexing and makes you scratch your head

    Such nice packaging, yet the "finish" is still rough, requiring the end-user to trim the edge of the nubs to fit.

    Too bad the empty frames aren't in "two pieces" so you simply slide in a filter and cap off the frame with the top. With four pieces to assemble there's more to put together, and more chance for error.

    But I am glad it doesn't look too difficult to remedy.

    ken

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