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Photo permits in Europe/ Italy and fine art print commercialization

P

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
Dear all

I have a specific question on photo permits and commercialization via fine art prints:

Lets say I want to shoot a nice location requiring a permit say the interior of a roman ancient lbrary, a public beach or something similar.

How does it generally work re permits? Is there a distinction between private and commercial and for the latter yiu sometimes dont get a permission or it costs more?

Lets take ancient rome for example: a picture on a public square should not be a problem and selling prints neither? What about a beach? Local community permission where the price varies?

Do some people just shoot “wild”?

Do you need to plan long in advance? Hire a production company?

Does it make a difference if you do limited fine art prints vs large scale licensing?

So when Thomas Struth photographes the Louvre from inside - he probably needed permission to do it in the first place and the. pay for a commercial license?

Guess also times have changed in the last twenty years ans some places are inaccessible?

Aerials are probably never a problem?

Appreciate any insights!

Best
Paul
 
T

tcdeveau

Well-known member
Probably not the answer you're looking for, but I think the answer is: it depends. Sounds silly, but it also depends on the gear you use.

I'm not sure there's a bright line rule that covers all the hypothetical scenarios in your question, which can be frustrating for those trying to play by the rules. It's not terribly easy to find pertinent information.

Foreign, some areas are supposedly off limits. Others can be protected by IP (Sydney Opera House comes to mind). If there's somewhere particular you want to shoot, I'd try and get in touch with whatever organization manages the property. Resources like the forums and Facebook groups can be helpful for getting more information on specific spots.

The rules are also changing pretty quickly with the increasing number of photographers out there and current world events. Last time I went out shooting in Atlanta to a spot I've shot before, I was shooed off by a security guard who said I needed a permit.

Keep in mind too it will probably be gear-dependent. For those of us in the inferno using medium format gear, (to try and keep the thread on topic with Medium Format) we usually stick out like a sore thumb compared to other photographers, so photographing with more "pro" setups can conflate the issues as people with more compact setups may not have issues. Security guards and what not view more sophisticated setups as professional or commercial. A British colleague of mine who travels extensively in Europe has a hobby of photographing the interior of churches. The main issue he runs into is tripods are almost never permitted (the times I've run into issues, this has been it). If you're planning on using tripod, strobes, etc, it probably weighs more towards "permit needed" in some places (others may not care), but if you're showing up with a Sony 55mm 1.8/A7RIV they may not care.

Side note regarding aerials, no, I doubt they are "never" a problem. For example, while I'm in the US attending a US law school (so may not apply to foreign jurisdictions), a case came to mind we discussed in my property class. Someone took aerial photos of a methanol-refining plant that was under construction....and they got sued for misappropriation of trade secrets because the factory was a trade secret. That's an extreme example clearly, but something to keep in mind (and the party in mind may have intentionally done so).

Hopefully I provided some helpful insight and/or discussion. My own personal policy is to figure out where I want to shoot before I travel and research the specific spots I plan on shooting and ask for permission if I am able to and if think it's necessary
-Todd
 
P

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
tcdeveau said:
Probably not the answer you're looking for, but I think the answer is: it depends. Sounds silly, but it also depends on the gear you use.

I'm not sure there's a bright line rule that covers all the hypothetical scenarios in your question, which can be frustrating for those trying to play by the rules. It's not terribly easy to find pertinent information.

Foreign, some areas are supposedly off limits. Others can be protected by IP (Sydney Opera House comes to mind). If there's somewhere particular you want to shoot, I'd try and get in touch with whatever organization manages the property. Resources like the forums and Facebook groups can be helpful for getting more information on specific spots.

The rules are also changing pretty quickly with the increasing number of photographers out there and current world events. Last time I went out shooting in Atlanta to a spot I've shot before, I was shooed off by a security guard who said I needed a permit.

Keep in mind too it will probably be gear-dependent. For those of us in the inferno using medium format gear, (to try and keep the thread on topic with Medium Format) we usually stick out like a sore thumb compared to other photographers, so photographing with more "pro" setups can conflate the issues as people with more compact setups may not have issues. Security guards and what not view more sophisticated setups as professional or commercial. A British colleague of mine who travels extensively in Europe has a hobby of photographing the interior of churches. The main issue he runs into is tripods are almost never permitted (the times I've run into issues, this has been it). If you're planning on using tripod, strobes, etc, it probably weighs more towards "permit needed" in some places (others may not care), but if you're showing up with a Sony 55mm 1.8/A7RIV they may not care.

Side note regarding aerials, no, I doubt they are "never" a problem. For example, while I'm in the US attending a US law school (so may not apply to foreign jurisdictions), a case came to mind we discussed in my property class. Someone took aerial photos of a methanol-refining plant that was under construction....and they got sued for misappropriation of trade secrets because the factory was a trade secret. That's an extreme example clearly, but something to keep in mind (and the party in mind may have intentionally done so).

Hopefully I provided some helpful insight and/or discussion. My own personal policy is to figure out where I want to shoot before I travel and research the specific spots I plan on shooting and ask for permission if I am able to and if think it's necessary
-Todd
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot, Todd. I am afraid this is the answer that is correct, but a bit frustrating as there does not seem to exist a uniform legal framework governing photography for commercial purposes. I guess I will follow your advice to get in contact with the respective organisations or hiring an assistant to get permits on a county by country basis.

Thank you
Paul
 
rdeloe

rdeloe

Well-known member
Paul, unfortunately it's not even country-by-country. Sub-national jurisdictions (states, provinces) in each country can all have their own rules. As a case in point, the rules can be quite different between the provinces of Ontario and Quebec in Canada: https://cippic.ca/en/FAQ/Photography_Law
 
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paulgrundy

New member
The more renown the building the more certain it is that they will have a strict photography policy in place so contact the locations you are interested in and ask them what their policy and costs are.
Every famous Institution or location now knows the commercial value of its assets and how to monitorise them. The reality worldwide is that if the cheque clears you’re in.

Away from the Landmark buildings, in 2018 I spent 5 months in Italy, mainly shooting in Rome and Palermo. I was interested in less well known buildings and locations which made access much simpler.

jerome_m link to the Freedom of Panorama article is important because while in some European counties you have the right to record the ‘permanent’ view (eg.UK, Spain) this right does not exist in Italy.

Personally I was never questioned or stopped while shooting on the street with a tripod but just be aware that if someone comes up to you and says you cannot photograph the exterior of that building without permission they are correct.

So many tourist just assume they have a God given right to point their cameras/phones at anything they want to and in Rome you will see an awful lot of tourists.

Generally I found that a polite request for permission and a few words of Italian would take me a long way at places of the beaten track. The vast majority of Italians are charming people who are happy to take the time to be helpful.

Paul

www.PaulGrundy.com
 
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