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Thread: Nikon D800 First Blush

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Nikon D800 First Blush

    Well it's gotta start somewhere. Very quick shots after driving to Palm Springs to pick up my D800 from Camera West and this used 14-24. Shot at F11 at 14mm actually of them with 14mm. Processed in ACR which is not remotely my favorite program so I did very little to these , little clarity and sharpness and exposure to taste. I need to fine tune my AF before i get serious with testing and all that. Right now I am officially on vacation so that will come next week. I just want to play for the weekend.

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I think these are at F8. Still for me need to figure out all the AF stuff. Its been since the D300 that I had a Nikon so a lot to figure out . I actually may have to RTFM



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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Can't really peek the pixels, Guy, but I trust your eyeballs... what do YOU see?
    Oh... and DXOMark apparently just rated it higher than the IQ-180!!??
    DxOMark - Sensor performance

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Now don't get to far excited on the DR here which is really good but the light was very nicely diffused driving in. Not my burn your neck in 20 seconds Arizona heat blaze that I am used too. So far it looks good but I am being careful until I get these under my 30 inch display and really until C1 comes out I am going to be very conservative on this.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by schuster View Post
    Can't really peek the pixels, Guy, but I trust your eyeballs... what do YOU see?
    Oh... and DXOMark apparently just rated it higher than the IQ-180!!??
    DxOMark - Sensor performance

    It looks pretty good but I think my AF needs adjusting so I don't want to get to crazy until I feel comfortable with that. I asked Sean at CW about the AF fine tune adjustment control and is it something one really needs to do. Flat out said no question test all your glass. So right there is a heads up and I'm sure the Nikon folks know this all to well.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Dont trust my eyeballs until I get some sleep been staring out the front end of a car for 8 hours today. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    BTW I am overlooking a huge Marina below me so I will get some fine detail shots this weekend than we can really pixel peep this but I'm very excited so far. Okay rest brain , need cocktails time. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I say this as a preliminary observation from those I often work intimately with. Apparently some fast Nikon lenses that had a particular Af fine tune setting with previous cameras such as the D700, end up have wildly different Af fine tune settings with the D800. The good news is these new Af fine tune settings with the D800 appear to show the lens was more finely calibrated before leaving the factory than was the case with same lens on the D700. It would appear D800 bodies are more closely adjusted/inspected than some D700's but I'm surprise just how different these fast lenses are behaving on one body relative to another.

    Related to this is fine tuning these lenses ofn the D800 is more critical for near optimum performance than previous Nikon bodies. This of course was to be expected.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Guy, sorry for asking - could you please post 100% crops from the center and the corners?

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Nikon D800 - boring testshot, but a RAW file to play with


    I had to send my brand new standard D800 back for focus calibration, since it suffered from severe back-focus.
    But at least I had time to grab a few trivial test shots to look at while waiting to get it back from service.

    So let me start with a shot from the D800 standard model.
    And bear with the boring subject, it's just a trivial test shot.

    Here's a link to download of the RAW file on MediaFire - or just click the picture to get the native sized jpeg

    Free Cloud Storage - MediaFire



    click for native size (7.8 Mb)

    in some browsers the F11 key maximizes and again minimizes <-> the web browser window


    Nikon D800 • AF-S Nikkor 1.4/50mm G • 12 bit 1/320 sec. at f/8 ISO 100 • Lightroom 4

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    Re: Nikon D800 - boring testshot, but a RAW file to play with

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post
    I had to send my brand new standard D800 back for focus calibration, since it suffered from severe back-focus.
    But at least I had time to grab a few trivial test shots to look at while waiting to get it back from service.

    So let me start with a shot from the D800 standard model.
    And bear with the boring subject, it's just a trivial test shot.

    Here's a link to download of the RAW file on MediaFire - or just click the picture to get the native sized jpeg
    I just took delivery of the 5D3 today, and personally I'm very happy with it. D800E still on order, but judging from your shot here, it seems the regular isn't so regular after all. I find the image sharp and retains a lot of detail. I know I can be very happy with the normal D800 no question.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I'm downloading the NEF now but the full size JPG image looks great. I'm gutted for you having to send your camera back to fix focus issues, but if this file is anything to go by I'm guessing when it comes back it will be a great tool.

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Nikon D800 First Blush


    Here's another D800 sample file

    Link to download the RAW file from MediaFire

    80A_0019_85mmG_iso100_12bit.NEF



    click for native size (6.4 Mb)


    Nikon D800 • AF-S Nikkor 1.4/85mm G • 12 bit 1/250 sec. at f/8 ISO 100 • Lightroom 4

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    The 85mm G seems to be a lot better than the 50mm f1.4 used in your other sample.

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Nikon D800 First Blush


    Yeah, but unfortunately it's also a lot more expensive

    Still, I completely agree with you

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Hi Steen, Shocking to see the D800 with G lenses.

    How do they do with a bit wider aperture? They are pretty fast at f/1.4.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    The 85mm image is definitely going soft at closer distances. I've got the E on order but will only be using it with Zeiss glass. I don't trust auto focus on any camera.

    Victor

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I will post some raws later today folks. Want to make sure I have some decent stuff first.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Hmmmm... D800E and Schneider 28 PC vs. IQ160, Cambo, and Schneider 43.... Hmmmm.. times 7... carry the 3.... $6,000 vs. $50,000.... hmmmm..... live view vs. focus mask... hmmm....

    --Matt

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    Member nikonf's Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Law of diminishing returns..........Just like Hi-End Audio!
    Yet, we still need to look at the dynamic range, shadow detail, 16bit CCD vs 14 bit etc.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I'll be very clear here even after only a half day with it, its not MF but its damn good and it does close the gap. This comes from a very picky MF shooter though. LOL

    Also I want to be real careful how I said that because for 98 percent of the users they will be in heaven with it. I'm not in love yet but serious like. ROTFLMAO
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    Super Duper
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Guy Wrote--->>>"I'm not in love yet but serious like."<<<

    I hope that "line" is strictly reserved for inanamate objects? Can you imagine it being used on a real person when developing a relationship with them...LOL!

    I have an initial feeling that when the D800 is being used and tested by individuals who will give both serious consideration for their lens selection and apply the usual good techniques for cameras with such high resolution, the files indeed will be impressive. Conversely the reverse will be true too and far too often I beleive we will see this camera in the hands of those who simply pick it up and use it like any APS type DSLR. What I am trying to say, is file quality and what is posted everywheres is going to be initially far more variable in quality than we might be used to seeing and sorting things out will take a bit of time for those that contemplate purchasing and using it. This is specially so for those who are choosing this particular camera for both the size of its file and also the quality of its output, relative to other potential camera system purchases.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Okay I had a bad feeling on those files posted and after a check my 14-24 is off by minus -14
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Okay I had a bad feeling on those files posted and after a check my 14-24 is off by minus -14
    Guy, I didn't want to say anything upon 1st glancing your posted images, feeling it wouldn't be fair since the camera was just recived and one needs time to calibrate their lenses, but I was somewhat surprised by what I saw and recently posted about the behavior and calibration of lenses used on the D800 is different than the same lens sample used on the D700/D3. Additionally as you know all to well (better than most everyone), that AF lens calibration especially when combined with a camera reaching these levels of resolution, becomes critical, even with use of a ultra wide angle lens.

    Looking forward to your postings.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Yea I was off pretty bad with back focus on the lens. My 35 is dead on, 85 1.4 is -2. Surprisingly the 180 looks very good but am doing a double check. Also it seems to hold up is pretty fast on focus. This is encouraging for that lens. The 14-24 is a used but very mint still under warranty but a little surprised that far off. I'm on a laptop and was looking at them and I knew even when shooting something looked off. So toss those posted images. I will get better and post for sure. I spent the time this morning checking this and glad I did. Heading out now to play. Check in later
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Interesting preliminary observations regarding your 180mm on the D800. Samples of that particular lens that I tested were showing it's age, in terms of acuity and side/corner sharpness, espcially compared to near similar focal length lenses by others. If your initial observations with that lens hold up, then you have a exceptionally good sample. Looking forward to more. Thanks!

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Thank you Steen for providing the links and raw files, nice samples btw. I have downloaded and been examining them as well as doing some of my own edits and posting the results below. I hope you don't mind. I wanted to see just how malleable these files are. I have to say these samples are on an order of magnitude better and far more promising than what was provided on Nikons website when this camera was first introduced. I am curious though, why did you choose to use 12 bit vs 14 bit for raw file capture?

    A couple of thoughts, questions. With my D4 I am seeing the beginning of diffraction loss at F 9.5 (halfway between F8-F11) using the 85 PC-E lens. I suspect the D800 camera is already heading in that direction long before probably just past F5.6 at best. Have you shot much with this aperture, and how does it compare to the F8 samples you are providing here. F8 is already pushing the limits for landscape and or architectural work let alone any thing less for DOF.

    This disappointment in your second file 80A)_0019 with the 85 mm lens was the red channel noise in the blue sky even at base ISO regardless of whether I used NR on or off. Sort of reminds me of the days with the D2x.

    Thanks again for the opportunity.

    Rob
    Last edited by routlaw; 23rd May 2015 at 10:11.

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    Nikon D800 First Blush


    You are welcome Rob, and yes, feel free to edit as much as you like and post the results, and of course that goes for all of you, only please keep the pictures here on GetDPI.

    I thought as an amateur I wasn't allowed to use 14 bit
    Well, honestly I have never been able to see any difference between 12 bit and 14 bit in generous light when I tested it on my 'old' D300.
    At some point I need to do some new 12 vs. 14 bit tests with this new machine when I get it back.

    I haven't had time to do controlled investigations on diffraction but I believe you are right that it will be clearly visible at f/11 and even slightly visible at f/8 with this scary small pixel pitch.
    Here I need to admit that some have told me that diffraction has nothing to do with pixel pitch, but it's still my understanding that it actually has in some way.
    But let's take the diffraction discussion in another specific thread for that subject. For some reason it seems to be a rather complicated discussion.
    Please somebody start a diffraction tutorial thread on the most relevant board here on GetDPI.

    I assume any noise at low or even base ISO must also have a lot to do with the small pixel pitch.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush


    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post

    Hi Steen, Shocking to see the D800 with G lenses.

    How do they do with a bit wider aperture? They are pretty fast at f/1.4.

    The AF-S 1.4/85mm G is actually amazingly sharp wide open, but as the focus plane is so razor thin it is a challenge to put it exactly where you want it.
    That was why I chose to let the camera go back for focus calibration.
    The camera needs to be as well zeroed as possible to get the best flexibility out of the AF Fine-tune feature.

    The 1.4/50mm G is less sharp wide open, which is probably to be expected since it is a far cheaper lens.

    Here's a wide open shot at close distance with the 85mm.
    The tack sharp focus plane is there. Somewhere. Though not exactly where I wanted to put it


    Link to download the RAW file - feel free to edit the file after your own taste and post it here on GetDPI only

    80A_0048_85mmG_iso100_12bit_at_f1.4.NEF



    click for native size (5.5 Mb)


    Nikon D800 • AF-S Nikkor 1.4/85mm G • 12 bit 1/3200 sec. at f/1.4 ISO 100 • Lightroom 4

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    Nikon D800 First Blush


    Here's another wide open shot at close distance with the 85mm.

    Link to download the RAW file - feel free to edit the file but please keep any posted results here on GetDPI only

    80A_0112_85mmG_iso100_12bit_at_f1.4.NEF



    click for native size (7.5 Mb)


    Nikon D800 • AF-S Nikkor 1.4/85mm G • 12 bit 1/400 sec. at f/1.4 ISO 100 • Lightroom 4

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Keep posting results folks. I got a chance to shoot all lenses and looking at the LCD looking great. Still a limitless timid on the 180 to make a call but once I download them I can get a better look. The 35 and 85 are stellar lenses and now the 14-24 looks so much better. Starting to feel good about this. I will find a home for Raws for everyone to play with. Just touristy shots. Lol
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Okay 5 people stopped me and asked what I was shooting. I think the cube got them. Than funny 4 of them knew me from the forums . Kind of nice even group photos. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Steen, When you point the lens at a building roof close to infinity, wouldn't f/5.6 (diffraction limit) enough? My question about the wider apertures were not about bokeh but actual infinity shots-landscapes, for example.

    Guy's 14-24 shots seem soft. I had never seen that lens to be not sharp (on my D300).

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    My first blush: the files are excellent, the color is very good and the noise handling is spectacular. I am processing them in ACR and LR and am liking what I'm seeing very much. (I cannot wait to get them in C1 though!) I will even go so far as to say this is the best DSLR file I have seen to date as relates to color, noise and *captured* dynamic range.

    However, the file does NOT have the malleability of the Phase file; you cannot crank shadows way up and hold the quality like you can on the IQ, so what I'd call the output DR is still superior on the IQ file. The other thing you notice immediately is how much less the image "zooms" when you go to 100% as compared to the IQ180 -- very close pixel pitches and a lot more of them on the IQ180 so that makes sense.

    I need to shoot some people in good outdoor light to comment on how it handles skin. So far from a few interior interior shots I've done it looks pretty darn good, but again does not appear to be full MF caliber.

    So, is it an MF replacement? No, at least not for me. To me, the most obvious difference is the MF files still have more elasticity to them, and that is something I use a lot to get my final working file to where I want it. But for a shooter who cannot enter MF, I will step out on that limb and say the D800 appears to be the best thing going to date in the DSLR league. I am impressed with it and likely to keep it.
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Okay I had a bad feeling on those files posted and after a check my 14-24 is off by minus -14
    Make sure it's universally off by that much and doesn't change through the zoom range. If it's variable it NEEDS a trip to Nikon, because it has collimation problems - that's how you get a PDAF shift. The AF shift can't be tuned away, and you'd want the alignment taken care of.

    My 14-24 really improved from service. It's a freaking fantastic lens - although I've only tested it on the D7000, but across the crop field it's like a laser. Serious microcontrast. It's so good to start that even with minor collimation issues it can still pass for a top-tier optic.

    Yes, Nikon has serious QC issues. Basically you get to do your own QC.

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Not so surprising that it can't compete directly with the top of the top of the line in MF backs. I'd be curious to see how it compares with lower end MF digital cameras, or with old ones that might be available for a bargain on the used market.

    edited to add: I should ask for clarity, when you say it's the best in the dslr league, are you just talking about small format dslrs or are you inlcuding MF cameras?

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Brittenson View Post
    Make sure it's universally off by that much and doesn't change through the zoom range. If it's variable it NEEDS a trip to Nikon, because it has collimation problems - that's how you get a PDAF shift. The AF shift can't be tuned away, and you'd want the alignment taken care of.

    My 14-24 really improved from service. It's a freaking fantastic lens - although I've only tested it on the D7000, but across the crop field it's like a laser. Serious microcontrast. It's so good to start that even with minor collimation issues it can still pass for a top-tier optic.

    Yes, Nikon has serious QC issues. Basically you get to do your own QC.
    I checked 4 focal lengths
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    Member nikonf's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    I can't wait to get my hands on one to see how well it behaves with my Leica 100mm Macro-Elmarit, Zeiss 21mm and 85mm PC Nikkor.
    Has anyone tried one with any similar optics?

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by paulraphael View Post

    edited to add: I should ask for clarity, when you say it's the best in the dslr league, are you just talking about small format dslrs or are you inlcuding MF cameras?
    I am referring to full-frame 35mm Digital SLR's.
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Can't wait to get my D800E. I thought I'd check it out and then get a second one if I like it, but what I've seen from the D800 I figure the D800E is not only a home run, but a HR with the bases loaded. I suspect it'll be very hard to find a second one, so my only regret now is I didn't order two!
    Last edited by Jan Brittenson; 24th March 2012 at 15:24. Reason: smiley for emphasis

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    Nikon D800 First Blush


    I do share your expectations for the E version, Jan, and so far I haven't seen anything scary with regards to moiré.

    On the other hand there was a Polish D800E picture with some specular highlights in the car keys that were rendered in a rather alarming way, did you notice them ?

    See post # 168 (plus my comment in # 171) in this thread, the second link in post # 168 is a strange capture from the E version http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/nikon/...tml#post397790

  42. #42
    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Nikon D800 First Blush


    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post

    Steen, When you point the lens at a building roof close to infinity, wouldn't f/5.6 (diffraction limit) enough? My question about the wider apertures were not about bokeh but actual infinity shots-landscapes, for example. (...)

    Vivek, I think it depends on how much of the landscape-like scenery you want to be perceived as sharp.

    I wanted sufficient Depth Of Field to cover more or less the entire scenery and I cannot imagine that f/5.6 would have made it.

    And maybe that was also what Victor meant when he said in post # 17: "The 85mm image is definitely going soft at closer distances" (even though my image was captured at f/8).

    Besides I would expect the D800 diffraction limit to be around f/9 according to the Diffraction Calculator at cambridgeincolour.com

  43. #43
    Senior Member viablex1's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    thanks for the download steen



    80A_0112_85mmG_iso100_12bit_at_f1 by gungyduo, on Flickr

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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post
    Besides I would expect the D800 diffraction limit to be around f/9 according to the Diffraction Calculator at cambridgeincolour.com
    That's just so much nonsense. I wouldn't give that any attention at all.

  45. #45
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Brittenson View Post
    That's just so much nonsense. I wouldn't give that any attention at all.
    +1 to that. Although the theories of diffraction are based on the "laws of physics", there are examples of lens/sensor combinations that clearly defy them, the most prominent being the Zuiko 50mm f/2.0 macro, a lens that delivers sharp, detailed images all the way down to f/16 and very good results at f/22 on a 4/3 sensor. If the "laws" were to be read by the letter, many p&s camera, not to speak about camera phones, shouldn't be useable at all, but some of them, even with tiny, high MP sensors, deliver excellent results.

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    Senior Member Swissblad's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon D800 First Blush

    Thanks for the downloads Steen - the quality is amazing!

  47. #47
    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Nikon D800 First Blush


    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post

    Hi Steen, Shocking to see the D800 with G lenses.
    (...)

    Hey Vivek, I guess I need to break down and admit that I do also use modern autofocus lenses. Sometimes

    I just refuse to completely abandon my old AI-S type lenses just because of some extra million pixels on the sensor

    In the following posts I'll show you some captures with a lens designed 28 years ago in the film days, the AI-S Nikkor 20mm f/2.8

    It's obviously not designed and corrected for digital sensors, still I like it for what it is and I intend to keep on using it.

  48. #48
    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    High Noon


    So now the inevitable High Noon ...

    ... I mean high ISO, first the Scenery at base ISO 100 (added daylight WB, and '50 out of 150 sharpness' in Lightroom, no other tweaks)

    ISO 100 provided a shutter speed of 1/6 sec. at f/8

    Link to the RAW file

    80A_0094_AIS_20mm_iso100_12bit.NEF



    click for native size (6.3 Mb)


    Nikon D800 • AI-S Nikkor 2.8/20mm • 12 bit 1/6 sec. at f/8 ISO 100 • Lightroom 4

  49. #49
    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    High Noon


    Now the high ISO shots (WB daylight, and Lightroom's Color Noise Reduction left at the default '25 out of 100', no other tweaks)

    I should of course have made these high ISO test shots as 14 bit captures. Plain stupid

    ISO 1600 provided me a shutter speed of 1/100 sec. (all else equal)

    Link to the RAW file (tweak to your own taste)

    80A_0095_AIS_20mm_iso1600_12bit.NEF



    click for native size (10.5 Mb)


    Nikon D800 • AI-S Nikkor 2.8/20mm • 12 bit 1/100 sec. at f/8 ISO 1600 • Lightroom 4

  50. #50
    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    High Noon


    ISO 3200 provided me a shutter speed of 1/200 sec.

    Link to the RAW file


    80A_0096_AIS_20mm_iso3200_12bit.NEF



    click for native size (12.8 Mb)


    Nikon D800 • AI-S Nikkor 2.8/20mm • 12 bit 1/200 sec. at f/8 ISO 3200 • Lightroom 4

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