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Thread: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Hi all,

    This is my first honest attempt at trying some black and white conversions, so I would be very grateful if anyone has the time to give me a little critique on this one. It seems a bit blah to me, not quite sure how to give it some spark without overdoing it.


    Regards,
    Joan

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    Super Duper
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joan View Post
    Hi all,

    This is my first honest attempt at trying some black and white conversions, so I would be very grateful if anyone has the time to give me a little critique on this one. It seems a bit blah to me, not quite sure how to give it some spark without overdoing it.


    I don't the image Joan

  3. #3
    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Stinkin' pBase ... I'm not seeing it now either, not sure why.

    Here's another attempt, uploaded here:


    Attachment 8665
    Regards,
    Joan

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    Super Duper
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Joan it appears to have full tonal scale, RAW in Cannon Software?

  5. #5
    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Yep raw in DPP. I experimented with adjusting each channel until I sort of liked it, probably without rhyme or reason, lol.

    I guess next I'll try converting to tiff and play around in LightZone with the presets.
    Regards,
    Joan

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    It looks good...do you have Light Room?

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Joan, that looks pretty good...

    I have an approach which seems to work well with lightzone.

    1. Add a zonemapper applied as soft light
    2. Add a Relight tool, shadow slider over towards the right, highlight slider all the way to the left.
    3. Add a B&W tool, select the colour wheel to give you subject isolation.

    Here's an example...

    Before :


    After :


    Just offering some ideas... hope it helps.

    Kind Regards

    Brian

  8. #8
    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Thanks, Streetshooter. No, I don't have Light Room. Did the free trial but didn't quite get the hang of it, will have to give it a go again sometime.


    Brian, thanks a bunch for sharing your method for LightZone. I will give that a try!
    Regards,
    Joan

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    there's a magazine called After Capture that has articles
    each month on raw processing and other things.
    It's online at www.aftercapture.com

    Shooter

  10. #10
    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Shooter, thanks so much for that link! Looks like a goldmine of info. and I'd never heard of it before. Now have it bookmarked and will start reading.

    THANKS!
    Regards,
    Joan

  11. #11
    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    OK, I tried Brian's Lightzone method for this one:

    Before:

    Attachment 8690

    After, cropped and converted to B&W

    Attachment 8689


    How did I do?
    Regards,
    Joan

  12. #12
    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Well after the crop..it's lost it's dimension....
    see the wings....see the V shape in the stems before crop......

    that makes the image work........now it looks cluttered......try to see what I'm talking about....it's about the EYE TRAVEL... don

  13. #13
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Hi Joan
    I agree with Don, but I'd put it a different way.
    The actual conversion is fine - great tonality . . . . but!
    1. there is a wonderful depth in the portrait orientation of the original, which is lost in busyness with the crop
    2. the colour in the original is splendid . . . why lose it!

    i.e. what a great shot!

    Just this guy you know

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    Super Moderator Cindy Flood's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Joan,
    I agree that you have nice tonality, but the b/w does not isolate the subject and draw the eye in like the colored shot does. The flowers are a distraction from the repeating V theme of the original.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Yep, I'm a dunce ... I lost the forest for the trees. I was concentrating so hard on the conversion process and the tones that I failed to realize what I'd done to the composition. Seeing patterns and shapes is usually something I'm fairly good at, but I completely agree that I blew it in a big way here.

    Oh, well, that's why I come here to learn!

    Thanks all, I'll keep working at it!
    Regards,
    Joan

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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Don't beat yourself up
    We're all saying what a fine picture the original is!
    and there isn't anything wrong with the conversion . . . apart from whether it's necessary.

    Just this guy you know

  17. #17
    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Thanks, Jono! No, I'm not beating myself up, I am grateful to get honest critiques because there are so many elements to making a good image, and they all have to work together. I liked the original, but didn't analyze why it worked and now I see what you all saw, so very helpful to get the feedback. You guys are GREAT!!
    Regards,
    Joan

  18. #18
    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    One of the best features of Digital Cameras is...

    The LCD screen...and to make it B&W. Looking at the screen is seeing the print in front of you...it has abstracted a 3 dimensional reality to a 2 dimensional reality and further abstracts the new reality by making the image B&W. It's even better than my 8x10 Deardorff because of the B&W screen....sooooooo.....

    use it.......your eyes are on but your getting lost in...Process......
    shooter

  19. #19
    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post
    One of the best features of Digital Cameras is...

    The LCD screen...and to make it B&W. Looking at the screen is seeing the print in front of you...it has abstracted a 3 dimensional reality to a 2 dimensional reality and further abstracts the new reality by making the image B&W. It's even better than my 8x10 Deardorff because of the B&W screen....sooooooo.....

    use it.......your eyes are on but your getting lost in...Process......
    shooter
    Point taken! Onward and upward!
    Regards,
    Joan

  20. #20
    Oxide Blu
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joan View Post
    I was concentrating so hard on the conversion process and the tones that I failed to realize what I'd done to the composition.
    It is actually a pretty good image for experimenting with.

    If you have the time, and are so inclined, you might want to download Silver Efex Pro (CS/PS Elements plugin) from NIK Software, 15-day free trial, and play with it. I grabbed the color original you posted here, and tossed it into SEP to compare how it would handle the b&w conversion compared to the sample conversion you posted.

    Anyways, the 15-day trial period is for fully enabled product. Caution: if you are interested in monochrome you can get hooked on it.

    http://www.niksoftware.com/silverefexpro/usa/entry.php

  21. #21
    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Hi Oxide Blu,

    Yes, I've seen beautiful stuff done with the Silver Efex software. I think they are now making the plug-in for Aperture, too, right? It's on my list of wants ... unfortunately that list is long and exceeds my budget right now. All of my cash seems to go to my son in college, kids are expensive critters.
    Regards,
    Joan

  22. #22
    Oliver
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    I really like the look of Brian's approach. Even on the butterfly shot (which I also prefer as color) - I think the tonality of the B&W is as good as it would get, just works better as a color shot. Maybe with lots of masking work in post, you could get a good B&W isolating the butterfly, but anyway - I think it's just a great color shot.

    Another option for B&W shooting is using a profile during raw conversion, I hear good things about the JFI profiles that mimic the color response of various B&W films. Which may be good or not depending on how you feel about legacy looks.

  23. #23
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post
    One of the best features of Digital Cameras is...

    The LCD screen...and to make it B&W. Looking at the screen is seeing the print in front of you...it has abstracted a 3 dimensional reality to a 2 dimensional reality and further abstracts the new reality by making the image B&W. It's even better than my 8x10 Deardorff because of the B&W screen....sooooooo.....

    use it.......
    I completely agree here, it is exactly how I use my GRD for B&W work.
    Edit; actually it is how I use any Liveview camera.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Thanks, Oliver. There are a lot of things I want to try as I learn more about post processing. I have always been a color enthusiast and think of myself as a primarily a colorist with my watercolor paintings. But there is something about B&W photography that seems so elegant and "pure" ... don't really know the words to describe how I respond to it, but I'd really like to get good at it! Don's point about using the LCD to help "see" in B&W is a very good starting point, and when/if I can afford to buy the Panny G1 with it's large EVF to view in monochrome, that will be even more helpful.

    My very favorite photos from growing up are all the B&W shots that were taken with my dad's Polaroid land camera. They still look amazing 40+ years later and I've scanned and enlarged them to preserve in my scrapbooks with quite a bit of success. It's funny, but I can remember the colors of all the things in those vacation pictures even though they were recorded in black and white.
    Regards,
    Joan

  25. #25
    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Lili, lol, looks like we were typing at the same time. This really is a no-brainer, isn't it. And I should know this as I've spent years and years doing little monochrome studies to work out the values for my paintings. It's the same thing, just in a different medium. I'll be switching to RAW + monochrome jpeg shooting henceforth!
    Regards,
    Joan

  26. #26
    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Alright, here's todays' attempt. Done in Lightzone and toned a bit with "palladium" preset. This looks better fullscreen, but I think it holds up OK. A little vignetting might help, but I don't have a program on my Mac that does that right now.

    Regards,
    Joan

  27. #27
    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Re-do ...


    Regards,
    Joan

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    Senior Member helenhill's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Love it Joan....Cozy
    Tones are Lovely / pulls you in
    Best-H

  29. #29
    Senior Member Joan's Avatar
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    Re: G10 B&W Conversion - C&C?

    Thanks, Helen. Wish there were people sitting at the tables ... then I would really like it.
    Regards,
    Joan

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