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Thread: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

  1. #51
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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    She never does. It would detract from her "aura of inscrutability." At least she poses which is more than I can say for my children.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    Carlos: We had a cat that looked just like her. Similar temperament.

    I thought I was up late. Aren't you in Florida!

    BTW: You should start a "fun with Nex 7" thread tomorrow.

    Cheers, Matt

    http://mdriscoll.zenfolio.com

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    For what its worth over at http://diglloyd.com/
    seems like he does not like the NEX-7 at all...
    Steven Kornreich
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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    For what its worth over at http://diglloyd.com/
    seems like he does not like the NEX-7 at all...
    I particularly liked this paragraph:

    "...As is usual with such cameras, the user interface is littered with irrelevant settings that degrade the usability. These settings persist even when made irrelevant by the choice of RAW (and are largely useless anyway). What’s wrong with one electronic colon-cleanse setting that says “hide all moron-mode and irrelevant settings”? Where is the Steve Jobs of the camera industry who could un-f*ck all this? ... "
    I realize quite clearly that the primary reason I would like an Leica M9 is for the superb *lack* of miscellaneous BS features I never want and never use. I love my M4-2 for this very reason.

    Seems it costs a fair bundle to keep all that BS out of a camera.

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    That's because of the reduced audience the camera would appeal to if they implemented that. Let's face it guys like Lloyd and the rest of us here who would appreciate such a camera are a very tiny minority compared to the mass market. Sony has to make their cameras appeal to a wider audience. Consumer electronics marketing.

    Now if they simply hid all of the cruft that is invalid when the camera is set to RAW mode, then they would really be on to something.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    Honestly, someone that writes something like this… It's like he wants all cameras being a retro exercise!

    A shutter speed dial like the Fuji X100 would go a long way to making the camera feel like a camera instead of a gadget (but real credit goes to Sony for a really solid handgrip).
    Last edited by llumiombres; 28th December 2011 at 09:52. Reason: Added quoting tags

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by kuau View Post
    For what its worth over at http://diglloyd.com/
    seems like he does not like the NEX-7 at all...
    He drives me crazy - the stuff about lens caps is the epitome of his dogmatic approach - still, one should envy him, it must be nice to be so absolutely sure that one is right!.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I particularly liked this paragraph:



    I realize quite clearly that the primary reason I would like an Leica M9 is for the superb *lack* of miscellaneous BS features I never want and never use. I love my M4-2 for this very reason.

    Seems it costs a fair bundle to keep all that BS out of a camera.
    You put it so much better than he does Godfrey!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Now if they simply hid all of the cruft that is invalid when the camera is set to RAW mode, then they would really be on to something.
    Hi Carlos
    you could be right, but don't you think that some RAW shooters want this stuff . . . . or even that those who want this stuff usually shoot RAW?

    I think it's easy - you just have a 'photographer' mode in the menus, which simply offers the obvious options, but with no extras?

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    I agree Jono, but if the camera cannot do a certain function while in RAW mode Sony has two choices:

    EASY CHOICE: Hide that which does not apply to RAW mode.

    TOUGH CHOICE: Make the feature work in RAW mode.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by llumiombres View Post
    Honestly, someone that writes something like this… It's like he wants all cameras being a retro exercise!
    Personally, I'd say he wants cameras to be cameras.

    And I concur. I could care less about "retro" ... I want cameras that work properly in my hands, that work with me. The Olympus E-1 is superb in this department (the E-5 almost as good) as are the Panasonic L1 and Leica M.

    This has nothing to do with being retro, has everything to do with being usable, being logically laid out in a way that is easy to learn and easy to remember.

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    I agree Jono, but if the camera cannot do a certain function while in RAW mode Sony has two choices:

    EASY CHOICE: Hide that which does not apply to RAW mode.

    TOUGH CHOICE: Make the feature work in RAW mode.
    There are many gee-whiz features that can never work while also producing a raw output file as they imply lots of image processing. No matter what else you call it, that data is no longer "raw".

    And it's not as if the camera cannot do a particular function. It's that image processing functions in the camera are irrelevant to the USE of raw image files. They're still needed to create the JPEG previews and for when JPEG + raw output is desired.

    It becomes a complex endeavor. Best to leave the the cruft out of the camera entirely. ;-)

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    Godfrey,
    apparently you and I are singing a duet of "A Hole in the Bucket". We are back at the beginning again. If they make a camera with zero gee-whiz features, it will have limited market appeal and a smaller market share. We (the clowns who would buy such a camera) are a very tiny minority in the sea of humanity.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    I have no qualms with the NEX-7 or whatever else coming with "features" that I may never use. I do not see such criticism regarding a Nikon D3sx or a Canon 1D something.

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    Look I don't quite get it. If you want plain features on the camera you have them.

    So on the NEX 7 my understanding is that
    Tri Navi -
    Aperture, shutter speed, ISO
    EV within easy reach
    White balance within easy reach

    You can set the camera up so that is all you use in RAW mode and the you are done. No need to dive into menus. No need to use any extra extraneous modes.

    I will say I've completely stopped reading llyod's site when he reviewed one of the micro 4/3 cameras and had factual errors. I sent him an email and the response I got back was "I know what you are saying and you are correct but I was trying to make a point. He never changed the part that was wrong and I stopped subscribing.

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    I think Lloyd suffers from the same mental problem my mother has.

    "There's her opinion and there's wrong opinions."

    Not much you can do for people like that.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    To me, all these review business is utterly irrelevant as far as photography is concerned. I do not buy anything based on any X,Y or Z has to say.

    Let me add here that I find the rumor sites more useful.

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    Subscriber Member weinschela's Avatar
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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I have no qualms with the NEX-7 or whatever else coming with "features" that I may never use. I do not see such criticism regarding a Nikon D3sx or a Canon 1D something.
    Agree 100%. I have a Nex-7 and I am also a confirmed Leica lunatic. I don't expect the Nex-7 to be a Leica and I don't expect the M9 to be a Nex-7. After I set up the Nex-7, drilling through menus is mostly unnecessary. I set up for aperture preferred and having one dial for f/stop, one for exposure comp and one for ISO is pretty simple. Oh, and one button for manual focus assist for when I am using M lenses. I'll bet Lloyd objected when the M7 came out with an "A" mode, and that he was opposed to pushbutton phones too ("the rotary dial works just fine and all those buttons are confusing").
    Alan

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    +1 Terry, I also cancelled my subscription. Though I from time to time look at his blog.
    If you subscribe to what Lloyd believes, then all of the current DSLR's and MF equipment basically all have problems in one form or another.
    One other thing, Lloyd may know how to read MTF charts but I think his own photography is lacking, just my opinion of course.

    I am still awaiting my nex-7 which I ordered from amazon months ago. Still no news :-(
    Steven Kornreich
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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Godfrey,
    apparently you and I are singing a duet of "A Hole in the Bucket". We are back at the beginning again. If they make a camera with zero gee-whiz features, it will have limited market appeal and a smaller market share. We (the clowns who would buy such a camera) are a very tiny minority in the sea of humanity.
    Oh, I'm well aware of that. I make do as best I can. :-)

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    Godfrey, Carlos, Vivek, Terry, Alan, Steven
    Seems we all agree that we don't want this stuff . . the only bone of contention seems to be whether others should be allowed to have it or not

    Personally I don't give a damn - but I wouldn't mind not having to spend half an hour scrambling each new camera into the way I want to work!

    Aperture
    Shutter Speed
    ISO

    RAW

    PASM

    It's not rocket science, and it would seem to be pretty easy for each camera manufacturer to have a 'boring old fart' mode. Which did all this - and then gave you the option to delve if you really wanted it.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    I think Lloyd suffers from the same mental problem my mother has.
    "There's her opinion and there's wrong opinions."
    Not much you can do for people like that.
    I've never read Lloyd's site before. I see nothing wrong with his expressing his opinions, however strong or contrary they might be. I'm not known for keeping my mouth shut when I have an opinion about something either—and I really don't care much if anyone disagrees with me. ]:-) That's the basis of our pleasant discourse: strong opinions informed by our individual experiences.

    My father had two favorite sayings, the second most frequently voice was, "There's a wrong way, a right way, and my way. In my house, we do things my way." Sounds like your mom ... or Lloyd. Dad was most often quite right...

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    +1
    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Aperture
    Shutter Speed
    ISO

    RAW

    PASM

    It's not rocket science, and it would seem to be pretty easy for each camera manufacturer to have a 'boring old fart' mode. Which did all this - and then gave you the option to delve if you really wanted it.
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    I don t have to agree with a reviews conclusions to benefit from reading it. When I see differences they are often because we shoot different subjects and have developed different styles . And of course none of the reviews are without some level of testing error and bias.

    Lloyd shoots lots of landscape and his frame of reference is Nikon D3S/D3X and plenty of Zeiss glass. You can t read his reviews and not get that he works hard at it. He points out that he enjoys shooting a lot at dawn and dusk ..and here the issue of noise is critical . If you used a D3X as a standard .....800 is as high as I can go and get high IQ and I work hard to stay at 400 and use down to 100 for maximum IQ. If his tests show the NEX 7 can not meet that benchmark .....we can debate forever the potential to use a NEX 7 at 3200 ISO ...and it would not be relevant to my requirements .

    I like Sean Reid s tests better because he does a lot of street shooting...so his requirements are similar to what I am looking for. But it takes a few minutes to consider a POV and helps me focus my own tests . So the more tests the better.

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    ...You put it so much better than he does Godfrey!
    Thanks for the compliment, Jono.

    I'm in happy mode. The little black Skopar 28/3.5 arrived and is just pristine perfect, brand-new like. A perfect fit for the GXR-M. The Ultron 28/2 feels large and clumsy by comparison. :-)

    I must go out and make some snaps with it now.

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    We seem always to complain about what the camera can't do, instead of praising what it can. We all have our agendas; let's accept even Sony can't please everyone all the time. I have been waiting for a camera like this for 10 years. The 5 and 5n were and are excellent, but 20mp+ is a game changer for me, as it takes files sizes well beyond 50mp at 8 bit which is the sweet spot for stock photography.
    Quentin Bargate
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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    We seem always to complain about what the camera can't do, instead of praising what it can. We all have our agendas; let's accept even Sony can't please everyone all the time. I have been waiting for a camera like this for 10 years. The 5 and 5n were and are excellent, but 20mp+ is a game changer for me, as it takes files sizes well beyond 50mp at 8 bit which is the sweet spot for stock photography.
    Quite right Q.
    I think it really is a game changer - I was already aware of it with the A77, but the remarkable thing is how well even more moderate lenses seem to work on the higher resolution sensor. Of course, as always, better glass is better, but even the humble 18-55 is producing good results.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    Totally agree with the both of you. As this is my first Sony, I am still getting things sorted out. I am going to need a hotshoe adapter for my radio trigger, I managed to shoot some pet portraits today by optically triggering my studio strobes.

    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    "the remarkable thing is how well even more moderate lenses seem to work on the higher resolution sensor."

    Nice to see this acknowledged, perhaps for the first time, apart from Zeiss!

    Final IQ = lens MTF multiplied by sensor MTF.

  29. #79
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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by hot View Post
    Best - using Zoom H1, records on microSDHC, price < $ 99

    Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I love this solution.

    What do I search to find that attachment(s)?

    Much appreciated.

  30. #80
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    Re: Sony NEX-7 Discussion

    Thank you for your message, and Sony is indeed very good

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