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Thread: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

  1. #101
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    Re: A7R+Vario-Elmar-R 105-280/4.2 - Shutter Shock?

    Quote Originally Posted by jfirneno View Post
    KH:

    That is a very solid looking support. I was looking at the RRS site a couple of days ago looking for a way to join the camera body to a lens foot mount to eliminate vibration. I was figuring a rail arranement might be available but what you've got there looks very custom and optimized for that lens. Was it custom made?

    Regards,
    John

    Thanks John. Great question. Answer: No, not at all.
    I just got standard parts from RRS and Novoflex.
    From RRS the rail, a plate, and two double sided clamps.
    From Novoflex an R to E adapter and the collar ASTAT-NEX.
    That's it.

    In fact I reused the clamps from post #74 and combined them with a shorter rail.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    I think it is important to state, though, that it is sheer coincidence that the two tripod collars (or rather the QR-plates attached to them) provide attachment points that are at the same distance from the optical axis. My guess is that this particular setup is highly unlikely to work for any other lens.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Pfister View Post
    I think it is important to state, though, that it is sheer coincidence that the two tripod collars (or rather the QR-plates attached to them) provide attachment points that are at the same distance from the optical axis. My guess is that this particular setup is highly unlikely to work for any other lens.

    Thanks Ron.
    Sometimes I get lucky!
    Better lucky than smart!
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...


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    Re: A7R+Vario-Elmar-R 105-280/4.2 - Shutter Shock?

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks John. Great question. Answer: No, not at all.
    I just got standard parts from RRS and Novoflex.
    From RRS the rail, a plate, and two double sided clamps.
    From Novoflex an R to E adapter and the collar ASTAT-NEX.
    That's it.

    In fact I reused the clamps from post #74 and combined them with a shorter rail.
    KH:

    Would you be willing to tell me what the part number is for the RRS plate under the lens foot?

    Regards,
    John
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    Re: A7R+Vario-Elmar-R 105-280/4.2 - Shutter Shock?

    Quote Originally Posted by jfirneno View Post
    KH:

    Would you be willing to tell me what the part number is for the RRS plate under the lens foot?

    Regards,
    John

    Thanks John, You are welcome. Of course, no problem.

    B9: Bidirectional plate with many uses - B9

    BTW, there is no extra plate below the ASTAT-NEX foot.
    Also, it would not fit and it's not needed here.
    The two-sided clamps need to be used with the 2 little screws on the lens and not the rail side.
    Then everything can be tightened just fine.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: A7R+Vario-Elmar-R 105-280/4.2 - Shutter Shock?

    Although the Leica APO-R 280/4 is a tad shorter than the Leica Vario-Elmar-R 105-280/4.2 I put the rail, clamps, plate, and collar on it and it works equally well with the A7R one a tripod.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    Excellent, Karl-Heinz! Thanks for paving the way.
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    Re: A7R+Vario-Elmar-R 105-280/4.2 - Shutter Shock?

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks John, You are welcome. Of course, no problem.

    B9: Bidirectional plate with many uses - B9

    BTW, there is no extra plate below the ASTAT-NEX foot.
    Also, it would not fit and it's not needed here.
    The two-sided clamps need to be used with the 2 little screws on the lens and not the rail side.
    Then everything can be tightened just fine.
    KH:
    Thank you very much. Sometimes one link is worth a thousand pictures. That makes it crystal clear.

    Best regards,
    John
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    John
    Just posted what I use from RRS on another Sony thread about shutter vibration here. RRS sells the lens support package. You can configure anyway you want. I use the kit with CB-YS-QR. Mine has two wheels that support the outer most end of the lens and this support can be raised up or down as needed. I also use a second BR Duo double clamp for some applications.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    John
    Just posted what I use from RRS on another Sony thread about shutter vibration here. RRS sells the lens support package. You can configure anyway you want. I use the kit with CB-YS-QR. Mine has two wheels that support the outer most end of the lens and this support can be raised up or down as needed. I also use a second BR Duo double clamp for some applications.
    Thanks algrove:

    I'm interested to see what I can accomplish when this camera arrives tonight (or at worst tommorrow). Last tracking had it within my area but sometimes the last few miles can take forever,

    Regards,
    John

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    Shutter Shock at 784 mm in Portrait Mode!

    So, I added an APO-Extender-R 1.4x and a 2x to the APO-R 280/4 and A7R.

    This rig looks like this and has a focal length of 784 mm..


    Here is a shot in landscape mode, OOC JPG reduced in size at ISO 100, ½ s, 2 s delay.


    Now a 100% crop.



    Switching to portrait mode now.


    This shot is in portrait mode, OOC JPG reduced in size at ISO 100, ½ s, 2 s delay.


    Now a 100% crop.


    Apparently I finally know now what motion/vibration blur looks like.
    If the crane didn't move, then ... my sensor must have.
    I repeated these shots several times with similar results.

    Shutter Shock at work? What do you think? Thanks.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Shutter Shock at 784 mm in Portrait Mode!

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Apparently I finally know now what motion/vibration blur looks like.
    If the crane didn't move, then ... my sensor must have.
    I repeated these shots several times with similar results.

    Shutter Shock at work? What do you think? Thanks.
    Congrats , this is exactly what others showed us previously: some kind of "double image" effect.
    I've yet to see it in my images, but as you clearly "proved" here the effect can be induced if you're happen to have found the critical setup for your rig.
    Also, not shooting in portrait mode seems to cancel out a good deal of the effect ...

    Edit: I'm amazed that this much of mass can be effected by that stupid little shutter

    Thanks and kind regards.
    Bart ...
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    Re: Shutter Shock at 784 mm in Portrait Mode!

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Edit: I'm amazed that this much of mass can be effected by that stupid little shutter
    Bart, focal lengths in this range are affected by you breathing behind the camera, despite the mass. Better step away - or better yet use an IS lens.
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    Re: Shutter Shock at 784 mm in Portrait Mode!

    You've copied my street photography rig, dammit!

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    So, I added an APO-Extender-R 1.4x and a 2x to the APO-R 280/4 and A7R.

    This rig looks like this and has a focal length of 784 mm..


    Here is a shot in landscape mode, OOC JPG reduced in size at ISO 100, ½ s, 2 s delay.


    Now a 100% crop.



    Switching to portrait mode now.


    This shot is in portrait mode, OOC JPG reduced in size at ISO 100, ½ s, 2 s delay.


    Now a 100% crop.


    Apparently I finally know now what motion/vibration blur looks like.
    If the crane didn't move, then ... my sensor must have.
    I repeated these shots several times with similar results.

    Shutter Shock at work? What do you think? Thanks.

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    A monster set-up like that requires (even on a tripod) shutter speeds at least equivalent to the focal length of the lens...the earth shakes, the wind blows, your hands on...all contribute at shutter speeds of 1/2s. I don't think you can blame the camera shutter for this problem...crank up the shutter speed!
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    Re: Shutter Shock at 784 mm in Portrait Mode!

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Shutter Shock at work? What do you think? Thanks.
    I'm not convinced 2s is adequate to still the shake introduced by actuating the shutter button. I'd be very interested in seeing another example of your rig shot with the 10s delay, or better yet, a wired or wireless shutter release.

    I'd also like to see a comparison with another camera shot with the same lens configuration. I've had some less than pleasing results using a 2x TC. Combining both a 2x and 1.4x may produce fringing, or blurring that has nothing to do with shutter shake.

    Graham
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    Hi K-H, When would you address the "orange peel" effect?

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    Re: Shutter Shock at 784 mm in Portrait Mode!

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post

    Apparently I finally know now what motion/vibration blur looks like.
    If the crane didn't move, then ... my sensor must have.
    I repeated these shots several times with similar results.

    Shutter Shock at work? What do you think? Thanks.
    Nothing new - Fritz Pölking, a german nature photographer wrote about the difference of landscape and portrait orientation some years ago:

    Google Übersetzer
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    Re: Shutter Shock at 784 mm in Portrait Mode!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gio View Post
    Nothing new - Fritz Pölking, a german nature photographer wrote about the difference of landscape and portrait orientation some years ago:

    Google Übersetzer

    Scharf

    Many thanks for this reference. Much appreciated.
    I have to take a closer look then and see what else I can learn.
    Being relatively new to photography this certainly is an educational experience!


    PS:

    Very interesting reading indeed! Thanks again.
    From the one comment with date of 2. August 2000, I have to conclude this article was written on or before the year 2000.
    The author was primarily concerned with mirror slab and image stabilization available at that time in his Canon gear.

    Obviously in my current gear situation I try to see whether Shutter Shock makes its mark. Of course, there is no mirror.
    It also would be interesting to use this lens setup with my Olympus OM-D E-M1 with and without IBIS and see what effect if any that has.
    In order for me to do that I first have to get the fitting Novoflex adapter. I already have the Novoflex ASTAT-MFT.

    As suggested by forum members I can also change some of the parameters I used, like exposure time, delay, remote control, etc.
    That should keep me busily entertained for awhile!

    I noticed also two interesting remarks by the author Fritz Pölking, quote:


    "Cable release or hand

    A very interesting finding was that landscape shots often been sharper if you use an electric cable release (especially with the mirror lock-up), vertical shots but when you depress the shutter button with your finger. The explanation: When horizontal exposures, the kinetic energy of shutter and mirror goes down into the lens and ball head and tripod. Vertical picture but it is directed to the side, and there helps the hand which holds the camera, destroying part of the kinetic energy before it merges into motion."



    "Light or heavy ball heads?

    I made ​​this test with the Kirk ball head of 1,000 grams of weight, and with the Earl Ball Head with 1.700 grams of weight. The results with the heavy head were not better, what you actually would have expected, but often slightly or significantly worse. Explanation: The heavy ball head is rigid and takes the energy of motion of the mirror and shutter is not on, but which must be 'destroyed' in the camera, resulting in vibrations in the camera. The light ball head is 'flexible like a poplar', takes the camera shake on, absorbed it and forwards it to the tripod. Thus they do not stay in the camera and therefore cause less motion blur on the slide."



    Do we know in which direction the mechanical shutter moves in the A7R?
    Up or down? Or sideways?
    Thanks for a reply.
    Last edited by k-hawinkler; 26th December 2013 at 09:47.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Shutter Shock at 784 mm in Portrait Mode!

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Do we know in which direction the mechanical shutter moves in the A7R?
    Up or down? Or sideways?
    Thanks for a reply.
    K-H,

    Looks pretty clear that the shutter moves up/down if I read your post above correctly.


    The camera mounting arrangement you show in the photo is not ideal... While there is a lot of metal there, it is all still at the mercy of the rigidity of the ball and mounting plate that is many inches away from the camera. You are relying on a 'rigid frame' or 'moment frame' approach to solve the problem, rather than the (typically) far more efficient 'braced frame' approach.

    EQE Reference Center

    STRUCTUREmag - Structural Engineering Magazine, Tradeshow: A Solution to Seismic Bracing Restrictions

    The top link shows a rigid frame approach, and the second shows a braced frame approach. The exact same problems are inherent in a camera are occurring in structural steel.

    Not Good, in fact this example looks almost completely useless, because of the hinges:
    http://www.sunwayfoto.com.cn/uploadf...tor/TLS-00.jpg

    Much better:
    Manfrotto 359 Long Lens Support (MN359-1) - Wex Photographic

    Your photo shows a system somewhere between these two in usefulness, because the Arca bar is rigid, but you are still at the mercy of the rotation point of the ball mount and a few small metal parts on the head, and also flex in the frame.

    You might get a more rigid mount by moving the frame over the ball head somewhat, but that will probably mess up the balance of the camera and lens. This will shorten the moment-arm from the head to the camera, and also reduce the distance through which the arca bar has to flex (think of the arca like a stiff fishing rod, while it doesn't appear to, it has the ability to flex like a rod when unsupported, but if you affix it at the middle rather then the end, it's flexure will go down by about 3/4).

    The manfrotto approach is FAR, FAR more effective, because it sets up a braced frame.

    For reference, I'm a photographer, but also an architectural engineer. However, I have never played a doctor on TV, hahaha...



    ---Michael

    EDIT: Made some edits to aid in clarity...
    Last edited by mjm6; 26th December 2013 at 11:10.
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm
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  22. #122
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    Re: Shutter Shock at 784 mm in Portrait Mode!

    Hi Michael,

    Thank you so much for your feedback. All excellent points.
    I have the Manfrotto 359 Long Lens Support on order.
    If the shutter moves indeed in the A7R vertically then the Manfrotto 359 Long Lens Support should help in Landscape mode.
    However, in portrait mode that would be different, as then the shutter kicks sideways, wouldn't it?
    Thanks again.
    With best regards, K-H.

  23. #123
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    Re: Shutter Shock at 784 mm in Portrait Mode!

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Hi Michael,

    Thank you so much for your feedback. All excellent points.
    I have the Manfrotto 359 Long Lens Support on order.
    If the shutter moves indeed in the A7R vertically then the Manfrotto 359 Long Lens Support should help in Landscape mode.
    However, in portrait mode that would be different, wouldn't it?
    Thanks again.
    K-H,

    Yes, in portrait mode, you will still have problems.

    I think you were having SOME problems in landscape mode, but the image didn't happen to have any ideally oriented lines to see it as well as the portrait mode ones (mostly vertical lines of the crane). However, look at the background, and it appears that the blur takes the orientation of the shutter motion. It's subtle, and you clearly have the camera braced against vertical movement better than horizontal movement with the frame you have set up.

    In portrait mode, The ball head is probably your weakest link. The single piece of metal that connects the ball to the mounting plate will allow a certain amount of twist to occur.

    This will be difficult to specifically address, because we rely on gravity to help solve our vibration issues mostly.

    The best way to easily address this (but not perfectly, to be sure) is probably mass. If you have the long lens support, you can mount it to the side down to a leg that is to one side (rather than directly below). That will give it some resistance to sideways movement, but won't necessarily make things better because the system may deflect slightly in another direction. May work well, though. You'll need to try it.

    Lots of mass will dampen the movement considerably, regardless of the direction (an object at rest tends to stay at rest...).

    However, to get the most out of the mass, it needs to be somewhat rigidly mounted as close to the camera as possible, because the issue is movement perpendicular to gravitational attraction. In other words, hanging a camera bag from the camera is great for vertical motion, but won't do much for horizontal motion.

    I typically dampen a camera with my hand/arm with a little pressure to the body, clamped in my hand. That may be all that is required in this case. This approach won't be good for long exposures, but short ones, it may be sufficient.

    One last thing, it takes A LOT more energy to move a camera/lens arrangement if the mass of the system is not centered over the pivot point. This has to do with the moment of inertia about that pivot point. This is why a skater will bring her arms and legs in to speed up in a spin, and then put her arms out to slow down to finish the spin. It is also why a piece of steel in an I-beam cross-section is much stronger/stiffer than the same amount in a solid rod.

    So, having a load balanced on the tripod is good in many respects, but in this case, it reduces the value of the mass somewhat. That's why just a little mass or hand pressure at the camera may be all that is needed to effectively address this for short shutter speeds.


    ---Michael

    EDIT: Let me revise this statement... The mass CAN be centered over the pivot point, but the majority of the mass needs to be away from the center of the pivot point to gain the most positive impact, and that is not what normally happens with cameras (which are like small weights that we center on the tripod).

    Here's what I mean:

    http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/exss...cs/barbell.htm

    Even if the mass is centered, if most of the mass is farther out from the pivot point, it will be a more stable, less-prone to movement system.
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm
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    Re: Shutter Shock at 784 mm in Portrait Mode!

    Thanks again Michael, I agree.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Shutter Shock at 784 mm in Portrait Mode!

    Guided by the excellent feedback from several forum members - big thank you indeed - I decided to perform another experiment. Roughly 0.9 miles from my house is a telecommunications tower. I decided to take photos of that tower with the 784 mm rig shown in post #112 with Sony A7R, NEX-5N, and NEX-7, first in Portrait and then in Landscape mode. Timing in the late afternoon is a bit tricky. If one does this too early the tower still seems to be dancing because of the turbulent air heated by sunshine. If one waits until the turbulence has died down then it's already too dark for fast shutter speeds at base ISO. So, I tried to find a good compromise.

    Here are the shots, all on Gitzo GT3541XLS tripod with RRS BH-55 ballhead and cropped to 1024x1024 pixels.
    One is 1023x1023 as PS CS6 likes to play tricks on me!



    Portrait mode, A7R + 784 mm tig, ISO 100, 1/160 s, wide open aperture, 10 s delay.
    ===> Shutter Shock sideways causes Double Image


    Portrait mode, A7R + 784 mm tig, ISO 100, 1/200 s, wide open aperture, fire shutter by hand firm on camera, no delay.
    ===> Shutter Shock impact greatly reduced, no Double Image, still some blur


    Landscape mode, A7R + 784 mm tig, ISO 100, 1/250 s, wide open aperture, 10 s delay.
    ===> Reasonably sharp image, a little affected by the 0.9 mile view through air with low levels of turbulence.





    Portrait mode, NEX-5N + 784 mm tig, ISO 100, 1/200 s, wide open aperture, shutter remotely fired.
    ===> No visible Shutter Shock


    Landscape mode, NEX-5N + 784 mm tig, ISO 100, 1/250 s, wide open aperture, shutter remotely fired.
    ===> No visible Shutter Shock




    Portrait mode, NEX-7 + 784 mm tig, ISO 100, 1/160 s, wide open aperture, shutter remotely fired.
    ===> No visible Shutter Shock


    Landscape mode, NEX-7 + 784 mm tig, ISO 100, 1/250 s, wide open aperture, shutter remotely fired.
    ===> No visible Shutter Shock

    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Shutter Shock at 784 mm in Portrait Mode!

    BTW, here is a shot up close of the same tower



    with Olympus OM-D E-M1 + Olympus M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 75-300mm f/4.8-6.7 II Lens
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    K-H,

    Look carefully at the 5N and 7 images. There is some shutter shock visible in the portrait images.

    Look at the diagonal bracing in the two segments below the location where they Guy wires connect to the frame. You can see a double image of the diagonal bars in the portrait images that is not there in the landscape version.

    However, it is clear that the 5N and the 7 show less shutter impacts. It's no surprise, as the shutters are smaller, and do they also have electronic first shutter?

    When I worked with ULF cameras (12x20 and bigger), I often used focal lengths in the 600-750mm range. I used a double tripod arrangement at times to keep everything tight. One at the lens end, and one at the film back end. Sure did suck to have to go to those measures.




    ---Michael
    a7r, a7rII, FE 16-35, FE 24-70GM, FE 70-200, Loxia 21mm, 35mm, 50mm
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    Quote Originally Posted by mjm6 View Post
    K-H,

    Look carefully at the 5N and 7 images. There is some shutter shock visible in the portrait images.

    Look at the diagonal bracing in the two segments below the location where they Guy wires connect to the frame. You can see a double image of the diagonal bars in the portrait images that is not there in the landscape version.

    However, it is clear that the 5N and the 7 show less shutter impacts. It's no surprise, as the shutters are smaller, and do they also have electronic first shutter?

    When I worked with ULF cameras (12x20 and bigger), I often used focal lengths in the 600-750mm range. I used a double tripod arrangement at times to keep everything tight. One at the lens end, and one at the film back end. Sure did suck to have to go to those measures.




    ---Michael

    Thanks Michael.
    You surely have better eyes than I do.
    But now that you point this out it's consistent with what I see!
    Thanks indeed!
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Shutter Shock at 784 mm in Portrait Mode!

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    BTW, here is a shot up close of the same tower

    with Olympus OM-D E-M1 + Olympus M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 75-300mm f/4.8-6.7 II Lens
    Hi there
    How does it look with the E-M1 from the same distance? Interested to see.

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Shutter Shock at 784 mm in Portrait Mode!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi there
    How does it look with the E-M1 from the same distance? Interested to see.
    Hi Jono,

    Thanks. Here you go, in Portrait mode, 100% crop, 1024x1024.



    Olympus OM-D E-M1 + Olympus M.ZUIKO DIGITAL ED 75-300mm f/4.8-6.7 II Lens @ 300 mm, 135 film equivalent 600 mm.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Shutter Shock at 784 mm in Portrait Mode!

    Following philber's suggestion in post #316 of http://www.getdpi.com/forum/558394-post316.html I repeated the tests shown in post #125 of http://www.getdpi.com/forum/558028-post125.html by adding the battery grip.
    Then my A7R + 784 mm lens looks like this.



    After manual focus the tripod holds the camera and lens in a very stable position, even when the tower is viewed in extreme magnification of 14.4x through the EVF.
    There is no doubt in my mind that I see a clear sharp image.

    The following two images were taking with 10 s delay in portrait orientation and show a 100% crop of 1024x1024 pixels.


    Portrait, ISO 160, 1/25 s



    Portrait, ISO 1600, 1/200 s



    From these two shots in portrait orientation, A7R with battery grip and 2 batteries in it I have to conclude the following:

    At 1/25 s exposure time evidence of shutter shake is clearly visible.
    At 1/200 s exposure time there is no evidence of shutter shake.


    Now in post #125 of http://www.getdpi.com/forum/558028-post125.html I presented evidence that without the battery grip:

    At 1/160 s exposure time evidence of shutter shake is clearly visible.


    What now needs to be done are 2 series of shots in portrait mode, with and without battery grip, to cover the exposure range from 1 s to 1/200 s.
    After these results are in we should have a better view of the issue at hand.

    Of course, the same series should also be run in landscape mode.

    According to Google Übersetzer this problem may have been with us mostly unnoticed for some time.
    Thanks to member Gio for pointing this out. Thank you very much indeed!

    Another interesting question for me is how the IBIS of the OM-D E-M1 behaves with such long lenses and exposure times?
    Is it capable of extending the useable limits as indicated by Fritz Pölking's paper from or before 2000 Google Übersetzer ?
    Last edited by k-hawinkler; 28th December 2013 at 23:56.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...



    A7R + VARIO-R 105-280/4.2
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    That looks nice and sharp
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    ]

    A7R + VARIO-R 105-280/4.2
    K-H
    The snow on that roof to the right side looks very sharp. Is this with the two extenders also?
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    That looks nice and sharp
    Thanks Guy. Here is a 100% crop. BTW shot at Exposure Time: 1.6.

    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    K-H
    The snow on that roof to the right side looks very sharp. Is this with the two extenders also?
    Lou,

    Thanks. This was shot with just the lens, no extenders!
    I really don't like to use extenders.
    For extra reach I would typically use my NEX-7 with just the lens.
    An FF camera would need to have about 57 MP to match the NEX-7's resolution of 24 MP.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    Tale of two forest fires,
    foreground Cerro Grande Fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia in 2000
    background Las Conchas Fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia in 2011



    50% crop


    Sony A7R + Leica APO-R 280/4
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    Truchas Peak at 12.5%, Pano of 2 shots


    Crop at 25%


    Sony A7R + Leica APO-R 280/4
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    So, rather than trying to do too many things at once, I stepped back and took another look at getting a stable and vibration resistant landscape setup. What I wanted to do was couple the weight of the lens, rail, and tripod directly to the A7R. Here is my contraption with an APO-Extender-R 2x between the Vario 105-280 lens and adapter, resulting in a focal length from 210 to 560 mm.



    There is now a plate attached to the camera that in turn is tightly attached to the rail.
    The rail is also attached to the lens above the ball head.
    Importantly the rail is also firmly attached via the ball head to the tripod.
    What I also like is that I now need fewer parts!

    I then ran a number of tests, according to this table.



    The system seemed to behave in a very stable way.
    All the results looked similar to this shot, taken at 1/50 s.:



    Very encouraging.
    I then went back to the APO-R 280/4 and extended it to a focal length of 1120 mm.
    Here it is.



    Well, how does that system behave on my tripod? I would say real well.

    Here are some shots of a motive on a teapot.

    ISO 100, 4 s


    ISO 1000, 0.4 s


    ISO 6400, 1/15 s


    ISO 25600, 1/60 s


    I haven't noticed any evidence of shutter shake. Do you see any? Thanks.
    Last edited by k-hawinkler; 31st December 2013 at 08:29.
    With best regards, K-H.
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  40. #140
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    I haven't noticed any evidence of shutter shake. Do you see any?
    Many thanks for doing these tests, Karl-Heinz! I had a feeling a setup of this kind would calm things down significantly, and it looks like it does. It's hard to judge finest detail in the high-ISO images, but the results are very encouraging. I would be interested to see what shutter speeds suitable for wildlife (i.e. in the range from 1/100s to 1/800s) at relatively low ISO would look like...

    Edit: are the teapot images 100% crops?
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    Thanks Ron, I agree.
    No, the teapot images are the full images, reduced in size for forum needs.
    No crop at all.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    To show the performance of the A7R with APO-R 280/4 and two APO-Extender-R 2x on tripod I took an image of my WATE lens.



    A full resolution 100% crop is available here: http://winklers.smugmug.com/KHW/2013..._3130x4816.jpg
    The little nicks and blemishes of the black finish of the lens give a good indication of the A7R rig's performance.
    The WATE itself performs on the A7R extremely well.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...





    A7R + APO lens and adapters, adding up to 1120 mm.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    The only convincing thing the WATE closeup shows me is that you need to clean off some of that AZ dust from the outside of that lens.

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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    The only convincing thing the WATE closeup shows me is that you need to clean off some of that AZ dust from the outside of that lens.
    Agree I think he should give that lens away to his neighbor dust bowl desert dweller.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  46. #146
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    In June 2011 the Pacheco Fire burned thousands of acres of forest in the Sangre de Cristos.
    2.5 years later one can see the still standing tree trunks and their shadows in the evening sun.
    Image taken from a distance of about 20 miles.



    Sony A7R + Leica 2 APO-Extender-R 2x + APO-Telyt-R 280/4, focal length 1120 mm, ISO 100, 1/50 s
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    L(os)A(lamos) Ski Area Boundary.



    Sony A7R + Leica 2 APO-Extender-R 2x + APO-Telyt-R 280/4, focal length 1120 mm, ISO 100, 1/50 s
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    Adorable 50s - Teil II - Systemkamera Forum

    Very informative, especially post #14.
    Self explanatory for non-German speakers.
    You could always use Google translate.

    Conclusion, the FE 55/1.8 seems to be a real gem.
    I think I'll order one now.
    With best regards, K-H.

  49. #149
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    This image http://winklers.smugmug.com/photos/i.../i-8P5vQvG.jpg was taken with NEX-7 + APO-Telyt-R 280/4.
    I wonder how such an image would compare with one taken with A7R + APO-Extender-R 1.4x + APO-Telyt-R 280/4?
    With best regards, K-H.

  50. #150
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    Re: A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

    Research Greenhouse.

    Olympus OM-D E-M1 + 75-300/4.8-6.7 II @ f/5.1, ISO 200, 1/90 s handheld, FL in 35 mm film 200.



    Sony A7R + Leica Vario-Elmar-R 105-280/4.2 @ f/4.2, ISO 100, 1/125 on tripod, FL 200 mm.


    100% Crop @ f/8
    With best regards, K-H.
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