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IQ4150 power on fail.need help.

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
Really, I'd be pretty pissed if I would be forced to pay annother 3.5k$
just some weeks after the original purchase because that damm thing is
dead now.
That's something to be dealt with with the seller of the original second hand product.

In my jurisdiction there's the concept of a "hidden defect" at purchase, but what happened here is a bit different because the back was in the posession of the purchaser for a longer time (1 month without use) so I guess the lines blur then a bit as you cannot "prove" 100% that the problem didn't arise during the owneship period after the purchase.

I am just saying in the grand scheme of things this can happen if you buy second hand at a big discount and out of warranty product without seller's warranty. Its a risk you take to avoid paying full price. So in a way its IMHO difficult to get entitled and "pissed" about a 2nd hand purchase to get in on the IQ4 action for cheaper. That the flip side of the coin when buying used ... it is USED and OLDER than NEW.

I recently sold an old scanner (IQSmart 2) and made it very clear to the purchaser that if something happens tomorrow it is his risk. He got a good price for it and understood the risks and still went through with it. There's never a guarantee with electronics after some years, but this being said, the IQ4 is a rock solid product and I guess it also depends on the specific unit and how much "outside" and "heavy" use it got which could have affected the internals somehow.
 
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Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Would be interesting to know if the IQ4 series per se had a higher failure then the
IQ3 because of the more complex design or what ever, but i guess neither the
dealers or P1 are keen to talk about it.

Wait, so one person - one person - has an IQ4 issue and now reliability of IQ4 units are in question and dealers don't want to talk about it?

Steve Hendrix/CI
 

Attachments

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
That's something to be dealt with with the seller of the original second hand product.

because the back was in the posession of the purchaser for a longer time (1 month without use) so I guess the lines blur then a bit as you cannot "prove" 100% that the problem didn't arise during the owneship period after the purchase.

He stated he had the unit for 6 months time.


Steve Hendrix/CI
 

hasselblad 503cw

Well-known member
Maybe your case similar with my old p65+ I have said two days earlier. It maybe somewhere loose connection which in my case.
I fully disassembled and reassembled the back several times. the more times I did that the more tiny screws left on my desk after reassembled again.
I have checked with my multi meter battery connector was and is good.
Finally back is alive. So I decided not to put tiny screws left on my desk back to the back. I don't want to take a risk.
So I got a live back with nervous spirit. I think I got mental health always worrying about how soon the back will dead again and whether I am so lucky.
By the way, My back had been sent to Denmark 7 years ago with repair cost £2000.

Best wishes
 

hasselblad 503cw

Well-known member
Yes, that is why it is very important to encourage customer publish their review or story about reliability.
I don't know when the back will not power on after buyer receive it, if it live again and used for 2 months no issue.
I don't know how I will deal with that. So I decided stop to trade my old back and keep it until it is totally dead.
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Sorry, I oversaw this. Then its essentially goodwill from P1 or a dealer helping out on the "edge case situation" to get a favorable repair. Or an alternate solution – tradein for new ...

If the IQ4 was indeed 3 days out of warranty, then we (CI) would make sure it was taken care of under warranty. There is a reasonable grace period that any credible dealer or manufacturer should allow for. If a dealer or manufacturer charges an end user $3,000 + for a repair on a product 3 days out of warranty, that's a problem. A manufacturer may do this as a default behavior, but then it is incumbent upon the dealer (or should be, anyway) to push them for the allowance. A manufacturer may allow this without prompting, but in my experience, manufacturers tend to be more "by the book", and that is where the value of a dealer comes into play (or should, anyway). I cannot tell you the number of times we have intervened in borderline cases or cases with history for allowances with manufacturers.


Steve Hendrix/CI
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
That's something to be dealt with with the seller of the original second hand product.

In my jurisdiction there's the concept of a "hidden defect" at purchase, but what happened here is a bit different because the back was in the posession of the purchaser for a longer time (1 month without use) so I guess the lines blur then a bit as you cannot "prove" 100% that the problem didn't arise during the owneship period after the purchase.

I am just saying in the grand scheme of things this can happen if you buy second hand at a big discount and out of warranty product without seller's warranty. Its a risk you take to avoid paying full price. So in a way its IMHO difficult to get entitled and "pissed" about a 2nd hand purchase to get in on the IQ4 action for cheaper. That the flip side of the coin when buying used ... it is USED and OLDER than NEW.

I recently sold an old scanner (IQSmart 2) and made it very clear to the purchaser that if something happens tomorrow it is his risk. He got a good price for it and understood the risks and still went through with it. There's never a guarantee with electronics after some years, but this being said, the IQ4 is a rock solid product and I guess it also depends on the specific unit and how much "outside" and "heavy" use it got which could have affected the internals somehow.
My understanding here in the US is there are express and implied warranties with products sold and that's governed by the Uniform Commercial Code. Unfortunately for us, warranties are not infinite in duration. By law in the US at least, P1 will go by the book because the transferable warranty expired and the buyer was never in "privity of contract" with P1. So P1 is not going to feel they owe a duty on a product out of warranty that was purchased by someone they were never in privity of contract with. They sold it to an original buyer who is not the current owner, the warranty expired (which is a generous 5 years, even more so because it's transferable), and they are going to feel they owe nothing more to the current end user since it would be a loss on their books. We get emotional about this stuff because of the cost and attachment we have to our gear, but I don't anyone can fault P1 for this standard business practice.

Purchasing from a dealer (i.e., a merchant who deals in the types of goods sold under the UCC), they may provide their own warranties, and it's great (for us) to hear that CI and @Steve Hendrix have flexibility and are not so "by the book." I believe used backs purchased from CI come with a CI warranty but Steve can chime in more on CI's policy if he wishes (or any potential purchaser can just reach out). It really stinks that OP's dealers in China didn't stand by it, but that's their perogative I guess, and Chinese law is diff than here in the US.

Anyone can feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken. I'm currently studying for the US Attorney Bar Exam that I take tomorrow, so I hope my understanding is correct at this point in time :)

$3500 repair for OP's back sucks but it's better than $15k or having an expensive paperweight. At the end of the day, we all must remember there's an inherent risk in buying things second hand, and warranties are not infinite in duration. On the other side though, the "quid pro quo" for our assumption of the risk is that most of us are looking to purchase a back at $20k or less, which is a lot cheaper than the $45k or so list. So assuming OP's back comes back great at $3500 repair cost, that's still cheaper than a new one.

I once had a navigation system on a car die on me one week out of the warranty. Best the dealer and manufacturer could do is offer me a rebuilt unit at half the cost of the new one (1800 vs 3600). It wasn't free, but it was better than the cost of a new one. Unfortunately these things happen.

Hopefully OP gets his back fixed and gets much continued use out of the back (and please share some results with us!).
 

hasselblad 503cw

Well-known member
I don't think there is difference in law between China with US relate to the customer protection. It is common sense.
There is nothing wrong for manufacturer or dealer who will not offer free repair for product out of warranty.
If any of the dealer or manufacturer offer for flexibility, that is just their goodwill not obligation by law. We appreciate it but shall not force them to do so or accuse of them not to do so.

Person bought high value high risk electronical product come with 6 months warranty left is good decision. Imagine what price you want to pay today if it is still alive just out of warranty days ago. That is huge difference. 6 months is long enough to find any defects or so called "hidden defects". Previously seller shall claim for warranty if found defects 6 months ago. I found some people hold double standards. when they sold their stuff they indicated there is no responsibility if items is faulty after the day delivered with so called jurisdiction and on the other hand suspect other seller hide "hidden defects".
 
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anwarp

Well-known member
Regarding the reliability of the IQ4 vs IQ3: Theoretically, the higher temperatures in the IQ4 is more likely to cause failure, for example, due to metal fatigue in the lead free solder joints.
Time will tell…
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Regarding the reliability of the IQ4 vs IQ3: Theoretically, the higher temperatures in the IQ4 is more likely to cause failure, for example, due to metal fatigue in the lead free solder joints.
Time will tell…

Time has been telling. IQ4 units have been shipping for nearly 6 years. We've seen no higher incidence of failure than with previous IQ generations.


Steve Hendrix/CI
 

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
I have had my colour IQ4 since 2019 - it has worked flawlessly from day one. It was used in cold, hot conditions. The build quality of P1 is top notch.
 

Ray Harrison

Well-known member
My own IQ4 has been humming along since 2020 and I've had my beloved IQ3100A since 2021, both pushed reasonably hard and no issues from heat or otherwise. My only issue is that I wish the "Infinity Platform" was slightly more "Infinity" :D . That's a Phase thing, not a dealer thing, and to be fair, I didn't take "Infinity" literally. I was somewhat suspect as to what they would be able to pull off with a gen-1 rewrite of the ecosystem, as impressive as it has been. Looking forward to Infinity 2.0.

I've purchased Phase backs through both non-dealers and dealers. While I didn't have particular issues with the non-dealers in my case, it's very much worth it to me to have someone "have my back" and to act as my advocate. And with Capture Integration here in the US, the service and the human-level interaction with each person they deal with is impeccable and I can't imagine purchasing in any other way these days. I started as a skeptic of the dealer approach, but I have to say that I'm won over and can't imagine doing anything differently, certainly for large dollar items and for sure something like a new-ish digital back. It's very much worth it to me.
 
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JohnnyR

Member
My back has been sent to repair. It needs 2 weeks to reach Denmark (or somewhere else?) and a diagnosis report will be listed. What i confirmed with phaseone is that 35k is the maximum cost, it may reduce hugely if there's just a loose part.
 

JohnnyR

Member
My own IQ4 has been humming along since 2020 and I've had my beloved IQ3100A since 2021, both pushed reasonably hard and no issues from heat or otherwise. My only issue is that I wish the "Infinity Platform" was slightly more "Infinity" :D . That's a Phase thing, not a dealer thing, and to be fair, I didn't take "Infinity" literally. I was somewhat suspect as to what they would be able to pull off with a gen-1 rewrite of the ecosystem, as impressive as it has been. Looking forward to Infinity 2.0.

I've purchased Phase backs through both non-dealers and dealers. While I didn't have particular issues with the non-dealers in my case, it's very much worth it to me to have someone "have my back" and to act as my advocate. And with Capture Integration here in the US, the service and the human-level interaction with each person they deal with is impeccable and I can't imagine purchasing in any other way these days. I started as a skeptic of the dealer approach, but I have to say that I'm won over and can't imagine doing anything differently, certainly for large dollar items and for sure something like a new-ish digital back. It's very much worth it to me.
Yes i learned my lesson this time. Phaseone Shanghai took my back and tried to reboot it,although didn't work i still appreciate their effort. Speaking of the warranty, if there's only one dealer in China my back will definitely get free repair, but dealers in China are competing so hard these days for few potential customers and they set some rules with each other for fleeing goods , i am close to Shanghai and the Guangdong dealer 'leaked' this back to me , this may hit their buttom lines.
 
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hausens

Active member
Just my guess, it might be the data stored in the flash memory somehow was corrupted. IQ3 uses flash memory for non-volatile memory of fpga. The technology is similar. It shouldn't have a higher failure rate.
 
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