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Thread: Parfocal cine zoom in MFT mount

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    Parfocal cine zoom in MFT mount

    For those who do video, this may be an interesting lens. It certainly is for me.

    - It's parfocal
    - It's MFT mount
    - Price will be $1,700, which is cheap for this kind of lens
    - It has a very usable zoom range at 20-70mm

    Optical qualities are unknown as for now, but it will be very interesting to follow this one:

    https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/04/...3-1-m4-3-zoom/

    newsshooter.com is btw. a fantastic resource for video technology. Those guys are very down to earth and with solid experience and knowledge about this.

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    Re: Parfocal cine zoom in MFT mount

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    For those who do video, this may be an interesting lens. It certainly is for me.

    - It's parfocal
    - It's MFT mount
    - Price will be $1,700, which is cheap for this kind of lens
    - It has a very usable zoom range at 20-70mm

    Optical qualities are unknown as for now, but it will be very interesting to follow this one:

    https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/04/...3-1-m4-3-zoom/

    newsshooter.com is btw. a fantastic resource for video technology. Those guys are very down to earth and with solid experience and knowledge about this.
    Not sure if you were tracking but Fuji is bringing their excellent MK series lenses to Micro 4/3 as well. Theyíre about twice the price but are worth it by most accounts.
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    Re: Parfocal cine zoom in MFT mount

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Not sure if you were tracking but Fuji is bringing their excellent MK series lenses to Micro 4/3 as well. They’re about twice the price but are worth it by most accounts.
    No I didn't know, although there's been a conversion kit available from MTF more or less since the lenses were launched. The Fujinon is 3,800, so quite a bit more expensive, and also a bit shorter, but it is a Fuji of course, so my grandchildren could probably use it for their feature movie a few decades into the future. Philip Bloom keeps raving about the two Fujis, and he's made some beautiful demo footage using them.

    This is my retirement project, I don't have time to do "serious" video until then, so there's time enough. Still, it's better to buy the expensive stuff while I have a day job, and good lenses are expensive, unfortunatly...

    Edit:
    One of the reasons why I'm holding back on camera investments is that I want to see what the Fuji H2 brings to the table. If the video functionality and quality are approaching GH5s levels, it will be a very tempting camera. The Fujinon MK lenses are of course available in X-mount too, with elctrical contacts. I haven't checked this, but would that enable iris control from the camera? That would be useful on occasions.
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 1 Week Ago at 09:04.

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    Re: Parfocal cine zoom in MFT mount

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    No I didn't know, although there's been a conversion kit available from MTF more or less since the lenses were launched. The Fujinon is 3,800, so quite a bit more expensive, and also a bit shorter, but it is a Fuji of course, so my grandchildren could probably use it for their feature movie a few decades into the future. Philip Bloom keeps raving about the two Fujis, and he's made some beautiful demo footage using them.

    This is my retirement project, I don't have time to do "serious" video until then, so there's time enough. Still, it's better to buy the expensive stuff while I have a day job, and good lenses are expensive, unfortunatly...

    Edit:
    One of the reasons why I'm holding back on camera investments is that I want to see what the Fuji H2 brings to the table. If the video functionality and quality are approaching GH5s levels, it will be a very tempting camera. The Fujinon MK lenses are of course available in X-mount too, with elctrical contacts. I haven't checked this, but would that enable iris control from the camera? That would be useful on occasions.
    I am actually desperately waiting for the Fujifilm X-H2 and I have great hopes in it's capabilities - both video as well as photo. I am kind of on the jump into a new system since my disappointment from Olympus latest developments - aka EM1X - and whenever I try to get friends with one of the latest mirrorless FF alternatives I am disappointed because of size, weight and prize. As I am no longer doing any professional photography an APSC Fuji system might very well be the ultimate solution for me and I already know the great qualities from the X-T2. Now the X-T3 even topped that by a huge amount and the only thing I am really missing is appropriate IBIS in such a camera - aka the soon to be expected X-H2.

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    Re: Parfocal cine zoom in MFT mount

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I am actually desperately waiting for the Fujifilm X-H2 and I have great hopes in it's capabilities - both video as well as photo. I am kind of on the jump into a new system since my disappointment from Olympus latest developments - aka EM1X - and whenever I try to get friends with one of the latest mirrorless FF alternatives I am disappointed because of size, weight and prize. As I am no longer doing any professional photography an APSC Fuji system might very well be the ultimate solution for me and I already know the great qualities from the X-T2. Now the X-T3 even topped that by a huge amount and the only thing I am really missing is appropriate IBIS in such a camera - aka the soon to be expected X-H2.
    Not will be interesting to see if the XH line adopts the GFX battery. I think that would go a long way to reinforce the idea that itís thwir flagship body and Iím sure the IBIS and features could benefit from the extra juice. I hope they nail the reliability with the XH2 as well. That was my biggest fear regarding the camera. It felt great in my hands and the IQ was good enough for most things... then thereís the option of picking up a GFX if you need/want the resolution.
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    Re: Parfocal cine zoom in MFT mount

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    No I didn't know, although there's been a conversion kit available from MTF more or less since the lenses were launched. The Fujinon is 3,800, so quite a bit more expensive, and also a bit shorter, but it is a Fuji of course, so my grandchildren could probably use it for their feature movie a few decades into the future. Philip Bloom keeps raving about the two Fujis, and he's made some beautiful demo footage using them.

    This is my retirement project, I don't have time to do "serious" video until then, so there's time enough. Still, it's better to buy the expensive stuff while I have a day job, and good lenses are expensive, unfortunatly...

    Edit:
    One of the reasons why I'm holding back on camera investments is that I want to see what the Fuji H2 brings to the table. If the video functionality and quality are approaching GH5s levels, it will be a very tempting camera. The Fujinon MK lenses are of course available in X-mount too, with elctrical contacts. I haven't checked this, but would that enable iris control from the camera? That would be useful on occasions.
    Iím not sure if the aperture can be controlled from the camera on the Fuji. My cousin shoots an XT2 and a XT3 as his primary for photography and the Blackmagic/Fuji X for video... he rents the Sony A7III for video and gimbal use when autofocus is needed and used the FS7 and Canon C300 lines in the past as well. I can ask him about the Fuji because Iím pretty sure heís used those lenses before. Heís the one that told me that B&H is accepting preorders for the Micro 4/3 mount which heís on the list for to use on the BMPCC4K.
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    Re: Parfocal cine zoom in MFT mount

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Iím not sure if the aperture can be controlled from the camera on the Fuji. My cousin shoots an XT2 and a XT3 as his primary for photography and the Blackmagic/Fuji X for video... he rents the Sony A7III for video and gimbal use when autofocus is needed and used the FS7 and Canon C300 lines in the past as well. I can ask him about the Fuji because Iím pretty sure heís used those lenses before. Heís the one that told me that B&H is accepting preorders for the Micro 4/3 mount which heís on the list for to use on the BMPCC4K.
    It would be interesting to know. The X-mount versions are $2 and 300 more expensive than the Sony and MFT versions, but maybe the electronics are only for transferring lens data to the camera.

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    Re: Parfocal cine zoom in MFT mount

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Not will be interesting to see if the XH line adopts the GFX battery. I think that would go a long way to reinforce the idea that itís thwir flagship body and Iím sure the IBIS and features could benefit from the extra juice. I hope they nail the reliability with the XH2 as well. That was my biggest fear regarding the camera. It felt great in my hands and the IQ was good enough for most things... then thereís the option of picking up a GFX if you need/want the resolution.
    I tried the H1 the other day. I liked it but was surprised how large/heavy it felt in the hand. It's a great idea, but feature-wise, they need to push it all the way up to GH5 level and beyond for video to make it a viable option. It won't sell on IBIS and the larger sensor alone, and competing with the MFT mount in the video market is not easy. Just the fact that Fuji is releasing their own lenses in MFT mount says a lot about that.

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    Re: Parfocal cine zoom in MFT mount

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    It would be interesting to know. The X-mount versions are $2 and 300 more expensive than the Sony and MFT versions, but maybe the electronics are only for transferring lens data to the camera.
    Looks like the contacts just communicate lens data and corrections in camera.

    https://www.fujifilm.com/products/di...res/index.html
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    Re: Parfocal cine zoom in MFT mount

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I tried the H1 the other day. I liked it but was surprised how large/heavy it felt in the hand. It's a great idea, but feature-wise, they need to push it all the way up to GH5 level and beyond for video to make it a viable option. It won't sell on IBIS and the larger sensor alone, and competing with the MFT mount in the video market is not easy. Just the fact that Fuji is releasing their own lenses in MFT mount says a lot about that.
    I think the Fuji and Micro 4/3 have different customer bases. I think for people that want a near finished look straight out of camera, Fuji canít be beat. IMO the XH1 body is nearly perfect in feel but I know many people that emphasize the desire for a small body donít care for it. When using the red badge lenses, itís nearly perfect without a grip though Iíd recommend the grip of using the 200/2, 80 Macro, or the 100-400 lenses.

    I think the desire for them to make the MK lenses for Micro 4/3 is more about there not being many premium native Micro 4/3 Cine lenses. Most manufacturers keep the premium Cine lenses in PL, EF, or E mount nearly exclusively. I wouldnít be surprised to see L-Mount and Z-mount cinema cameras and lenses coming soon but time will tell. Fuji just seems to be filling a niche.
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    Re: Parfocal cine zoom in MFT mount

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Looks like the contacts just communicate lens data and corrections in camera.

    https://www.fujifilm.com/products/di...res/index.html
    Thanks. You're better than me figuring out Fuji's website

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    Re: Parfocal cine zoom in MFT mount

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I think the Fuji and Micro 4/3 have different customer bases. I think for people that want a near finished look straight out of camera, Fuji can’t be beat. IMO the XH1 body is nearly perfect in feel but I know many people that emphasize the desire for a small body don’t care for it. When using the red badge lenses, it’s nearly perfect without a grip though I’d recommend the grip of using the 200/2, 80 Macro, or the 100-400 lenses.

    I think the desire for them to make the MK lenses for Micro 4/3 is more about there not being many premium native Micro 4/3 Cine lenses. Most manufacturers keep the premium Cine lenses in PL, EF, or E mount nearly exclusively. I wouldn’t be surprised to see L-Mount and Z-mount cinema cameras and lenses coming soon but time will tell. Fuji just seems to be filling a niche.
    You might be right about customer bases as seen by Fuji and Panasonic. The H1 seems to be a camera in search of an identity. It has all the still photography bells and whistles, including the top LCD, which gives me a feeling that Fuji mostly intended it to be sold as a more advanced stills camera. The reviewers on the other hand, focused strongly on it's improved video capabilities compared to the T2. Later of course, there's the T3 with even more advanced video, but lacking IBIS. It's as if Fuji doesn't really understand the enthusiast video market and how it develops. We'll see what the H2 brings, but I have a feeling that it will be a very different, and possibly more expensive, camera compared to the H1.

    I've mostly preferred the RAW files from Panasonic vs. those from Fuji, at least for stills. Video is a totally different ball game, and there are so many other parameters at play.

    It's surprising also that there are hardly any parfocal zooms available in MFT mount, considering how popular the format and mount has become among budget video makers. One reason is probably the price of those lenses, but with MFT, the volumes would probably reach levels that could bring the prices down. What is still needed is one or more wide zooms. 18mm doesn't really cut it for WA with MFT, and 20mm even less so. With the G95, that gets even worse due to the 4K crop factor of that camera, and although the G95 probably isn't the main target for these lenses, it might become a popular B-cam for low budget video producers using a GH5 or Blackmagic.

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    Re: Parfocal cine zoom in MFT mount

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    You might be right about customer bases as seen by Fuji and Panasonic. The H1 seems to be a camera in search of an identity. It has all the still photography bells and whistles, including the top LCD, which gives me a feeling that Fuji mostly intended it to be sold as a more advanced stills camera. The reviewers on the other hand, focused strongly on it's improved video capabilities compared to the T2. Later of course, there's the T3 with even more advanced video, but lacking IBIS. It's as if Fuji doesn't really understand the enthusiast video market and how it develops. We'll see what the H2 brings, but I have a feeling that it will be a very different, and possibly more expensive, camera compared to the H1.

    I've mostly preferred the RAW files from Panasonic vs. those from Fuji, at least for stills. Video is a totally different ball game, and there are so many other parameters at play.

    It's surprising also that there are hardly any parfocal zooms available in MFT mount, considering how popular the format and mount has become among budget video makers. One reason is probably the price of those lenses, but with MFT, the volumes would probably reach levels that could bring the prices down. What is still needed is one or more wide zooms. 18mm doesn't really cut it for WA with MFT, and 20mm even less so. With the G95, that gets even worse due to the 4K crop factor of that camera, and although the G95 probably isn't the main target for these lenses, it might become a popular B-cam for low budget video producers using a GH5 or Blackmagic.
    With the XH line they are targeting a true hybrid market. Iíd say they are largely successful with the main downside being that you can argue whether Fuji shouldíve held off on releasing the camera 6 months with the XT3 specs. I gather it wouldíve had a warmer reception for the price. The other thing is that the A7III was released a month after the XH and it essentially had to undergo a rapid series of price cuts to remain viable. You can regularly get them for $1100-1300 new stateside without trying too hard... the. There were the QC/QA issues with the camera early on. There are a large number of reported issues with the cameras.

    With regard to the lack of cinema lenses on Micro 4/3... I donít believe the average user knows the difference between a photographic lens and a cinema lens other than manual focus... sad but true. Look at all the negative comments regarding pricing of the LUMIX S lenses despite being designed to have minimum focus breathing. A lot of people are moving into these pro hybrid bodies designed for photography and are expecting Arri/RED type performance for around $2-3k when those cameras go for 10-30 times that price kitted out. Personally Iíd feel more comfortable dripping thousands on Fuji lenses than some of the unknown companies popping up and rebranding vintage Russian and Chinese lenses into fancy housings.

    I think Fuji just saw a potential opportunity and lead of lens growth. The new Premista line looks like FF versions of these lenses and if priced close to the MK series, they will do extremely well if they come to the Mirrorless systems or the GFX.
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    Re: Parfocal cine zoom in MFT mount

    There are two other alternatives: the Sigma 18-35 and 50-100mm f/1.8 (T2.0). Sigma call them "near parfocal", and test have shown that they are in reality more parfocal than some much more expensive cine lenses. This goes for the standard versions of these lenses as well as the cine versions. The problem is that they lack back focus adjustment, even for the cine versions. However, smart users out there have found that some adapters can be adjusted to help this, and although it's a somewhat time consuming procedure, it may be worth it for some. As far as I remember, my Viltrox EF to MFT adapter is adjustable (the lens group's position in the adapter). If this is the case, I might buy an 18-35mm in EF mount to try out.

    This would require using one lens with one adapter on one camera body, since the tolerance is a fraction of a millimetre only, and smaller than the tolerances used when manufacturing the lens mount on the camera and lens. Wide open, which with the adapter would be f/1.2, the tiniest error will be visible.

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    Re: Parfocal cine zoom in MFT mount

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    There are two other alternatives: the Sigma 18-35 and 50-100mm f/1.8 (T2.0). Sigma call them "near parfocal", and test have shown that they are in reality more parfocal than some much more expensive cine lenses. This goes for the standard versions of these lenses as well as the cine versions. The problem is that they lack back focus adjustment, even for the cine versions. However, smart users out there have found that some adapters can be adjusted to help this, and although it's a somewhat time consuming procedure, it may be worth it for some. As far as I remember, my Viltrox EF to MFT adapter is adjustable (the lens group's position in the adapter). If this is the case, I might buy an 18-35mm in EF mount to try out.

    This would require using one lens with one adapter on one camera body, since the tolerance is a fraction of a millimetre only, and smaller than the tolerances used when manufacturing the lens mount on the camera and lens. Wide open, which with the adapter would be f/1.2, the tiniest error will be visible.
    The Sigmas may be near parfocal but they present another huge issue - they actually display pretty extreme focus breathing. This all ties back to their photographic design and itís even present in the Sigma Cine versions too which suggest they just rehoused their excellent photography lenses into a cinema friendly housing and raised the price 2-3x for them. Quite a few people reviewed them - I believe I watched the Philip Bloom one where he tested them on an FS7II (if I remember correctly.)
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    Re: Parfocal cine zoom in MFT mount

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    The Sigmas may be near parfocal but they present another huge issue - they actually display pretty extreme focus breathing. This all ties back to their photographic design and itís even present in the Sigma Cine versions too which suggest they just rehoused their excellent photography lenses into a cinema friendly housing and raised the price 2-3x for them. Quite a few people reviewed them - I believe I watched the Philip Bloom one where he tested them on an FS7II (if I remember correctly.)
    The 50-100 in particular. With the 18-35 it's hardly noticeable.

    With the prices they charge for the cine versions, they should be able to design a couple of "real" cine zooms. Maybe they lack the competence. Fuji of course has all the knowledge that is needed. They've been doing this for decades.

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    Re: Parfocal cine zoom in MFT mount

    Not really the correct section but since we were talking about it hereís a XT3 with MK 18-55.

    https://youtu.be/7-ApXoY9Fn8
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