Canon FF Mirrorless

[Elderly]

The Glass is always greener on the other side :grin: https://www.dpreview.com/news/09672...ess-system-launches-with-four-rf-mount-lenses

 

[k-hawinkler]

The Glass is always greener on the other side :grin: https://www.dpreview.com/news/09672...ess-system-launches-with-four-rf-mount-lenses

Nope, for me greener with A9. :watch: :ROTFL:

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

I like this camera. It's kind of barebones, and the 28-70mm is to die for. I'm not in the market for a new camera this year, but later, the Canon will be a part of my consideration. And the 28-70

 

[Vivek]

The zoom is awesome (so are the other lenses and the flash). It needs a serious commitment to the system to buy it.

Not so sure about the camera.

Overall, a very respectable entry! :thumbs:

 

[ptomsu]

Ok - hmmm - here we go with my take on the Canon FF R and lenses (to whoever it might concern ):

I followed lot of the announcement videos etc you all can find all over the Internet. While I was not too optimistic this camera would be of any interest for me, I meanwhile start liking it more and more.

The biggest downturn for me was lack of IBIS but meanwhile I think to understand the Canon philosophy/strategy WRT IBIS. They offer a combination of stabilisation through their lens IS and the sensor that makes total IS even more effective. That of course only works for stabilised lenses but honestly most of the fast glass that Canon offers (will offer) like 1.2/50L etc. I do not need any IS. Second for video they offer digital stabilisation that works pretty impressive ( as shown in the video below) and for me would do the job ... so I think meanwhile I could live without IBIS.

It also offers Eye AF that is not available in the Nikon Z and that I started to really use in the Olympus EM1.2. But here it works much better because it is combined with Dual Pixel AF and hence is much finer as any PDAF system added to the sensor - so this is a big PLUS for me (see also video below).

The available adapters look simply much nicer and functional than the Nikon and Sony offerings. And the new focusing system allows focusing in combination with adapter and 2x TC down to F11 - which is absolutely great and telly me it will work like a breeze wit the TC1.4.

As I currently do not own any FF system (neither Canon, Nikon or Sony) I am completely free to jump on anything that resonates with me and I must say after a bit of thought process I seem to like the Canon offering the best. I am not looking for high MP counts (40+ MP), I want some fast primes (R 1.2/50L, EF 1,4/85 IS, EF 1.4/35) but I also need a 100-400 solution which seems to be pretty great with on of the available adapters. And I always liked (preferred) Canon haptics to anything else.

Hm ... just found out that 4K recording is still in crop mode - maybe nothing for me after all?

Now the link to the video - must say I normally do not like "Camera Introduction Videos" but this one I found extremely telling, precise and focused:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jwwf9YWnSZI&frags=wn

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Apparently, AF will work even with a 2x TC and an f/5.6 lens, like the 100-400 and the 400 prime. That's pretty impressive, although maybe not so useful.

Did I mention that the 28-70mm lens looks awesome? :ROTFL:

 

[ptomsu]

Well I double checked and the 4k video crop is 1.74 - which is substantial.

As I am doing 4k video almost exclusively when I shoot video this makes unfortunately the Canon EOS R unusable for me - :banghead:

Would have been to good to be true ....

 

[iiiNelson]

My thoughts is that it’s a really good start without much pretension or claim to revolutionize Mirrorless. There are the obvious “flaws” for some like a single card slot, Eye AF only working in Single AF mode, and limited battery life. There’s the fine print like the -6 EVF rating was taken using the 50/1.2 lens to in reality the camera is comparable to the -4EV since most companies measure from f/2.8 for their reading. I don’t love the 1.6x crop in video but for people that complained about Sony lens prices I don’t think they’re going to find relief here with native lenses. I think the body and kit are priced fairly though and I could get by with the body + lens kit and the 50/1.2 perfectly fine for most things. The 28-70 is a nice “halo lens” that doesn’t interest me in the least bit but I generally don’t get on with midrange zooms that don’t offer me the most useful zoom range where I tend to prefer primes.

All in all its a good first effort without all the needless hype and I’d like to see their roadmap. Perhaps the 85/1.2 and the 24/1.4 are next in line with the 100-400 coming shortly afterwards.

 

[iiiNelson]

Well I double checked and the 4k video crop is 1.74 - which is substantial.

As I am doing 4k video almost exclusively when I shoot video this makes unfortunately the Canon EOS R unusable for me - :banghead:

Would have been to good to be true ....

In fairness that’s nearly comparable to most APS-C crop modes, equal to Fuji 4K, and possibly was done to reduce rolling shutter (which probably says something about Canon readout speed and bitrates being offered.) it’s probably isn’t a deal breaker for the average person and you can think of it as a 80D with 4K maybe.

I guess my BIGGEST concern going forward is Canon’s statement of “you don’t switch to it but rather you just add it to the family.” While I “get this” idea (which sounds eerily similar to Nikon) there’s some concern going forward if first there will be a concerted effort to develop the system properly with native lenses and innovative bodies or to treat it just as a “digital back” for Canon lenses and second they will continue a protectionist strategy for DSLR. My fear with either Canon or Nikon if they fail isn’t them failing because they have it their all but failing and saying - see we tried a serious system but Mirrorless isn’t the future DSLR’s are... all because they hamstrung their Mirrorless camera to protect cameras upmarket in the DSLR realms. The 5D and D850 can stand on their own as capable cameras without being protected... I just wished CaNikon could see that when designing a Mirrorless camera.

 

[Vivek]

Weather sealing and a wide lens mount- two great aspects of the Canon and Nikon mirrorless offerings that are sorely missing from the Sony line up.

Just poor components overall that make up the Sony cams. The lens contacts in even premium cameras are not that much better than the one in the first NEX cam, for example.

Price of the new Canon camera is quite justified in comparison, IMO.

 

[ptomsu]

In fairness that’s nearly comparable to most APS-C crop modes, equal to Fuji 4K, and possibly was done to reduce rolling shutter (which probably says something about Canon readout speed and bitrates being offered.) it’s probably isn’t a deal breaker for the average person and you can think of it as a 80D with 4K maybe.

Well obviously our philosophy and requirements differ!

I do not want to pay for a FF camera and carry around FF (big and heavy) lenses when I am only getting out APSC functionality for some important things like 4k!

Is unfortunately a NO GO for me and not debatable.

 

[iiiNelson]

Weather sealing and a wide lens mount- two great aspects of the Canon and Nikon mirrorless offerings that are sorely missing from the Sony line up.

Just poor components overall that make up the Sony cams. The lens contacts in even premium cameras are not that much better than the one in the first NEX cam, for example.

Price of the new Canon camera is quite justified in comparison, IMO.

I think marketing is generating issues where there were none for most with lens mounts. Leica has long used a mount smaller than the E-mount and produced high quality fast lenses. As an example look at all those Sony lenses that were at or near the top of DXO Lab ratings or do we just dismiss those thingswhen they aren’t beneficial to make a point?

Nothing against any of these cameras. I think they’re all fine but I don’t know that they individually push the market to advance.

I agree the pricing seems 100% fair as well. Nothing that blows me away but certainly fair and somewhat better than expected (I hoped for $2k but expected $2500).

 

[iiiNelson]

Well obviously our philosophy and requirements differ!

I do not want to pay for a FF camera and carry around FF (big and heavy) lenses when I am only getting out APSC functionality for some important things like 4k!

Is unfortunately a NO GO for me and not debatable.

Well I wasn’t saying it was IDEAL but I did want to offer objective viewpoints. I personally wouldn’t want to be forced into a crop mode but many people use them effectively on a daily basis.

 

[Vivek]

Not marketing. I have here the lens contact blocks from NEx’ and A7rII. Cheap stuff.

They really ought to improve the quality of the very few components that are in their cams.

They are not at all low priced cameras!

I think marketing is generating issues where there were none for most with lens mounts. Leica has long used a mount smaller than the E-mount and produced high quality fast lenses. As an example look at all those Sony lenses that were at or near the top of DXO Lab ratings or do we just dismiss those thingswhen they aren’t beneficial to make a point?

Nothing against any of these cameras. I think they’re all fine but I don’t know that they individually push the market to advance.

I agree the pricing seems 100% fair as well. Nothing that blows me away but certainly fair and somewhat better than expected (I hoped for $2k but expected $2500).

 

[iiiNelson]

Interesting take.

https://youtu.be/HtnOTvCSIeY

 

[iiiNelson]

Not marketing. I have here the lens contact blocks from NEx’ and A7rII. Cheap stuff.

They really ought to improve the quality of the very few components that are in their cams.

They are not at all low priced cameras!

What would you suggest? What issues have you had with the components so far? I’m not against improvements at all and hope we see more of them.

 

[iiiNelson]

The newest rumors are that this is the prosumer model and a higher end model is still coming later.

 

[Vivek]

Already did. Stop using/making cheap stuff.

Tre, When people like you are defending every crappy thing Sony does, what is the point?

What would you suggest? What issues have you had

with the components so far? I’m not against improvements at all and hope we see more of them.

 

[iiiNelson]

Already did. Stop using/making cheap stuff.

Tre, When people like you are defending every crappy thing Sony does, what is the point?

Not defending or anything of the sort.

Just stating I didn’t have the same experience but I also don’t take cameras apart like you do. That being said there have been advancements that they’ve made like strengthening the lens mounts.

 

[k-hawinkler]

Good luck to all of you buying and using the new gear by whomever!
Have at it and fun. It may get a bit more quiet in the Sony images threads.

We had over the long weekend family visiting, a son, wife, and grandkids.
Used A9, TAP, Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2 and Summilux-R 80/1.4 when I was shooting.
The FE 55/1.8 did the job when I handed the A9 to family members.
All images shot successfully with Eye-AF.

Of course, the adults have late model iPhones as well.
Works for me. :thumbs: :salute: