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Thread: The X-Pro3

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    Re: The X-Pro3

    I think this was a very fair and interesting Review of the XPro3 - worth watching.

    made me prepared to at least test the thing and see how I feel in use...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkJ5o7ysXkI
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Went to an event and handled the X-Pro 3 in Dura Black. Beautiful finish. Lovely camera. But I came away disappointed. I’m sure I could learn to adapt to the hidden LCD but it just seems like an “all loss and no gain” situation to me, with zero advantage in the way the LCD works. The simulated film box end is just silly (unless your hipster quotient is very high), and when in “info mode” this small display is not very visible in even the ambient room light of the shop I was in. Outside it was invisible for all practical purposes.

    The change in the EVF is significant “on paper” but visually a very small change from my Pro 2. The change in the OVF is nice for glasses wearers (that’s me), but the other changes re framing lines is not good. For the 16mm there are four little orange “corner arrows” that are not so great. So, for me, the OVF changes are at best a “push” and in some ways a net loss compared to my Pro 2. Before actually handling one I had firm plans to “upgrade” to the Pro 3. It is now, sadly, off my radar altogether.

    I love Fuji and sincerely hope this camera is a success and that there “really is” a market for what it offers. For me, it would be too many compromises to tolerate for no practical gain to warrant the expense. I suspect that many/most of the firmware upgrades will find their way to other models with the same sensor/processor combination, so that also is not enough to compensate for the very strange design choices Fuji made.

    At the risk of being flippant, I think Fuji should have named this the X-Hipster_Jewelry 3. It really is beautiful in the Dura finish.

    Rand
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by Rand47 View Post
    Went to an event and handled the X-Pro 3 in Dura Black. Beautiful finish. Lovely camera. But I came away disappointed. Iím sure I could learn to adapt to the hidden LCD but it just seems like an ďall loss and no gainĒ situation to me, with zero advantage in the way the LCD works. The simulated film box end is just silly (unless your hipster quotient is very high), and when in ďinfo modeĒ this small display is not very visible in even the ambient room light of the shop I was in. Outside it was invisible for all practical purposes.

    The change in the EVF is significant ďon paperĒ but visually a very small change from my Pro 2. The change in the OVF is nice for glasses wearers (thatís me), but the other changes re framing lines is not good. For the 16mm there are four little orange ďcorner arrowsĒ that are not so great. So, for me, the OVF changes are at best a ďpushĒ and in some ways a net loss compared to my Pro 2. Before actually handling one I had firm plans to ďupgradeĒ to the Pro 3. It is now, sadly, off my radar altogether.

    I love Fuji and sincerely hope this camera is a success and that there ďreally isĒ a market for what it offers. For me, it would be too many compromises to tolerate for no practical gain to warrant the expense. I suspect that many/most of the firmware upgrades will find their way to other models with the same sensor/processor combination, so that also is not enough to compensate for the very strange design choices Fuji made.

    At the risk of being flippant, I think Fuji should have named this the X-Hipster_Jewelry 3. It really is beautiful in the Dura finish.

    Rand
    My opinion is that the irony of this camera is that the targeted market is probably not the professional but rather the enthusiast market (which includes professionals that may want this as a personal camera).
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    I very enthousiastically preordered and will soon receive it.
    Should have waited longer!!
    I will miss the ability to magnfy the OV when using a lens with a longer focal length and the frame becomes too small.
    Of course you can always switch to the electronic. But I do admit my M viewfinder frame with a 90 was really tiny, let alone with a 135mm
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by Rand47 View Post
    Went to an event and handled the X-Pro 3 in Dura Black. Beautiful finish. Lovely camera. But I came away disappointed. I’m sure I could learn to adapt to the hidden LCD but it just seems like an “all loss and no gain” situation to me, with zero advantage in the way the LCD works. The simulated film box end is just silly (unless your hipster quotient is very high), and when in “info mode” this small display is not very visible in even the ambient room light of the shop I was in. Outside it was invisible for all practical purposes.

    The change in the EVF is significant “on paper” but visually a very small change from my Pro 2. The change in the OVF is nice for glasses wearers (that’s me), but the other changes re framing lines is not good. For the 16mm there are four little orange “corner arrows” that are not so great. So, for me, the OVF changes are at best a “push” and in some ways a net loss compared to my Pro 2. Before actually handling one I had firm plans to “upgrade” to the Pro 3. It is now, sadly, off my radar altogether.

    I love Fuji and sincerely hope this camera is a success and that there “really is” a market for what it offers. For me, it would be too many compromises to tolerate for no practical gain to warrant the expense. I suspect that many/most of the firmware upgrades will find their way to other models with the same sensor/processor combination, so that also is not enough to compensate for the very strange design choices Fuji made.

    At the risk of being flippant, I think Fuji should have named this the X-Hipster_Jewelry 3. It really is beautiful in the Dura finish.

    Rand
    People criticise leica - but they NEVER EVER EVER make the mistake of trying to force their user base into using their cameras 'only in this way'. What a stupid thing Fuji have done to an iconic design - dumb it down and make it less user friendly but emphasize 'titaaaanium' and paint colours...sorry Fuji if I want camera bling Leica does a much better job at it.



    end rant.
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    People criticise leica - but they NEVER EVER EVER make the mistake of trying to force their user base into using their cameras 'only in this way'. What a stupid thing Fuji have done to an iconic design - dumb it down and make it less user friendly but emphasize 'titaaaanium' and paint colours...sorry Fuji if I want camera bling Leica does a much better job at it.



    end rant.
    I think this was Fujiís take on the Leica M-D lines... except they hid the screen versus omitting it altogether. I think the camera is getting a mixed reaction. Seems that most that have used it understand it a bit better though many still donít order it. Seems like most that havenít touched it dislike the idea/concept of it.

    I donít have a dog in the fight either way. Itís interesting but not for me.
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I think this was Fujiís take on the Leica M-D lines... except they hid the screen versus omitting it altogether. I think the camera is getting a mixed reaction. Seems that most that have used it understand it a bit better though many still donít order it. Seems like most that havenít touched it dislike the idea/concept of it.

    I donít have a dog in the fight either way. Itís interesting but not for me.
    I think Leica (CL) and Sony 6 series - have just been given a massive boost - by Fuji.

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    Re: The X-Pro3

    I have an X-Pro2, I've had it about a year and only 4K clicks. Not the cameras fault the number is low. It's the way I shoot. The 2 is my first EVF mirrorless camera. Before I bought I had rented over the years the X-E2, X100T, X100F and an X-Pro2. I have Leica M's for two decades and I thought I'd use the OVF much more than I do. Turns out I seldom use it. I have a decade plus of FF DSLR use where I've never ever set a camera to display an exposure as soon as I've shot it. I review an exposure just to check it. When I've done that I shoot. I also hate having a screen flash on just out of view into my face every time I shoot.

    I bought the X-H1 as the sale price is too low to pass on. Now THAT is an EVF. So much better than the 2 and I guess exactly what the X-T3 offers. The X-Pro3 is on paper even better.
    The XH is my first ever camera with tilting screen, IBIS and a large EVF. I can't see how anyone thinks it is a large camera but my other bag carries a D4S/D3 Nikon. Those are large.

    I could completely live with the display of the X-Pro3. D-pad? Sure I'd adjust. I shoot more than fiddle. If the X-Pro3 AF gets closer to Pro DSLR speed and accuracy the alone would do it for me. A finder as good or better than the X-H1 would be great. I'm not leaving Nikon, I could after all just get a Z body but the point of Fuji for me is size reduction. I have the 23/35/50 cron selection. It's all a joy to carry and the point is I DO carry it.

    There may be a low click mint Pro2 for sale soon. I haven't used it since the H arrived.

    Neil
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Today I just had another spin with the X-Pro3 at Photo&Adventure in Vienna. This time at least the camera worked (my first try 2 weeks ago was with a non functioning OVF/EVF) but the booth personal (Fuji) was still very ignorant.

    Anyway finally we could together get the X-Pro3 to work and here are my first impressions:

    1) the AF works nicely with OVF as well as EVF and is displayed in both modes very correctly.
    2) the dura buck coating is not as bad WRT smears as a lot of people reported, simply wipe it off with a soft tissue and it is ok - also if you have eaten pommel with your hands and then touch this (or any) camera the surface will be smeared
    3) camera is overall very reactive and easy to hold, even with open screen
    4) camera overall is pretty light, with F2 primes a real joy to hold and use
    5) EVF is pretty good I would say, but looking 10 minutes after through the EM5.3 EVF (also OLED but only 2.4MP) I still liked the EM5.3 better - that should tell something

    Will I finally buy one? I think not for now, as I am completely out of the Fuji X ecosystem, and even if I would be in I would have to think pretty hard about it. Maybe better wait for the X-H2?

    Great camera overall, but maybe not for me and my type of use ....
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Ya know I don't think I've seen anyone mention that perhaps one could just turn off the rear display of their X-Pro2 just to see if the world ends. Is it just too easy?

    I did see a tongue in cheek Youtube where the guy gaffer taped a piece of cardboard over his rear display. Seems a tad extreme.

    Neil

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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I think Leica (CL) and Sony 6 series - have just been given a massive boost - by Fuji.
    Maybe but I’d more quickly assume that this would drive people to the XT3 if they were invested in Fuji already.
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Maybe but Iíd more quickly assume that this would drive people to the XT3 if they were invested in Fuji already.
    I agree, I don't think a lot of people will jump ship if one new body comes out that isn't to their liking. Especially since it doesn't change anything to the gear they already have (and presumably use and like)
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Having an X Pro2 and three lenses (and an XF10), I have no incentive to get a Sony or Leica APS-C camera. First, the Sony and Leica cameras do not blow my hair back at all: I bought my X Pro2 for the optical finder, so Sony and Leica EVF cameras are not a draw (the X Pros also have a built in EVF, so I have that option as well). Also, I have not seen a decrease in the quality of my images since the release of the X Pro3 (or any other Fuji camera, for that matter). And to be honest, the Sony and Leica lens offering are not that appealing and certainly not at Leica prices. Personally, I think Fuji has the best APS-C system on the market to date, not only in terms of quality, but also choice. (And if I did like the Sony or Leica cameras, Fuji has EVF cameras with basically the same style meaning I don't have to buy new lenses.)

    After seeing all the changes made to the X Pro3, and some of them are good, it has certain design decisions that do not appeal to me (the flip screen I am actually ambivalent about and I do not understand the hostility). Certainly, no other manufacturer has a camera like the X Pros, regardless of the model, so there is no other option available. The fact that I really like my Fuji APS-C system and it continues to give me excellent images, I am uncertain what I am actually missing.
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Only one Leica and one Sony cameras I have owned, and I was not super impressed by either.
    I currently shoot with three Fuji mirrorless, and will continue with Fuji. Why? Lenses, ergonomics, price, and commitment to users.

    The X-Pro3 will find a home in my bag, but I usually wait a while after a camera hits the market.

    I am upgrading from the X-Pro2, so I have a pretty good idea what to expect.
    My X-Pro2 will be IR modified and the IR Fuji camera I currently shoot with will be sold.

    Such a great assortment of gear we have for choosing these days!

    Kind regards,
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Maybe but Iíd more quickly assume that this would drive people to the XT3 if they were invested in Fuji already.

    The only reason I exited Leica M was I have become tired of 'compulsory' manual focus - simple as that. I am also aware of just how good if not better both TL and L mount lenses are compared to M. So (liek I usually do) I have been comparing Fuji X V Leica CL for my happy snap purposes since they are both small format - looky look fellas - the CL is a LOT smaller even!

    Here is my CL and XT-3 side by side - note the viewfinder on the CL is on the left hand side of the CL body V viewfinder on XT-3 ( great camera btw) is closer to center than left. What I liked about the M series and do like about the CL series camera bodies is the viewfinder position and excellent viewfinders - viewfinder in XT-3 is great no problem - i just prefer the viewfinder position to be in 'rangefinder style' position - left of body - but not to be dumbed down.

    All I expected from XPro-3 was viewfinder/Chip/ to be same as XT-3 - I could even cope with useless screen mode - but viewfinder isn't as good as XT-3 anbd I am one of those types who think a viewfinder experience is the first thing I look at when assessing camera. Same reason I didn't pick up a GFXR - love the rangefinder style - didn't like the EVF.

    Ok that is it from me on this topic - apologies in advance if my preferences set came across as some criticism of Fuji in general - the reverse is true for me - I have Fuji love in abundance.
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    The only reason I exited Leica M was I have become tired of 'compulsory' manual focus - simple as that. I am also aware of just how good if not better both TL and L mount lenses are compared to M. So (liek I usually do) I have been comparing Fuji X V Leica CL for my happy snap purposes since they are both small format - looky look fellas - the CL is a LOT smaller even!

    Here is my CL and XT-3 side by side - note the viewfinder on the CL is on the left hand side of the CL body V viewfinder on XT-3 ( great camera btw) is closer to center than left. What I liked about the M series and do like about the CL series camera bodies is the viewfinder position and excellent viewfinders - viewfinder in XT-3 is great no problem - i just prefer the viewfinder position to be in 'rangefinder style' position - left of body - but not to be dumbed down.

    All I expected from XPro-3 was viewfinder/Chip/ to be same as XT-3 - I could even cope with useless screen mode - but viewfinder isn't as good as XT-3 anbd I am one of those types who think a viewfinder experience is the first thing I look at when assessing camera. Same reason I didn't pick up a GFXR - love the rangefinder style - didn't like the EVF.

    Ok that is it from me on this topic - apologies in advance if my preferences set came across as some criticism of Fuji in general - the reverse is true for me - I have Fuji love in abundance.
    On the EVF/OVF side of this topic I must say from my small amount of using/testing the X-Pro3 I found the EVF pretty good, definitely good enough for me, and I am usually very picky in that regards. What really surprised me though was that the EVF of the Olympus Em5.3 (which I tested a few minutes after the X-Pro3) was at least as good IMO as the one of the X-Pro3 although only 2.4MP compared 3.6MP of the X-Pro3.

    So from the viewfinder point I would definitely not skip the X-Pro3. Just my 5c ....
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post

    The only reason I exited Leica M was I have become tired of 'compulsory' manual focus - simple as that. I am also aware of just how good if not better both TL and L mount lenses are compared to M. So (liek I usually do) I have been comparing Fuji X V Leica CL for my happy snap purposes since they are both small format - looky look fellas - the CL is a LOT smaller even!

    Here is my CL and XT-3 side by side - note the viewfinder on the CL is on the left hand side of the CL body V viewfinder on XT-3 ( great camera btw) is closer to center than left. What I liked about the M series and do like about the CL series camera bodies is the viewfinder position and excellent viewfinders - viewfinder in XT-3 is great no problem - i just prefer the viewfinder position to be in 'rangefinder style' position - left of body - but not to be dumbed down.

    All I expected from XPro-3 was viewfinder/Chip/ to be same as XT-3 - I could even cope with useless screen mode - but viewfinder isn't as good as XT-3 anbd I am one of those types who think a viewfinder experience is the first thing I look at when assessing camera. Same reason I didn't pick up a GFXR - love the rangefinder style - didn't like the EVF.

    Ok that is it from me on this topic - apologies in advance if my preferences set came across as some criticism of Fuji in general - the reverse is true for me - I have Fuji love in abundance.
    Im not disagreeing with your preferences. I just donít believe most people that are Fuji X buyers (as a primary system) are cross shopping with Leica. Iím sure thereís a small minority that do/will but theyíre the exception.

    I didnít take your criticism as anti-Fuji at all. You were simply expressing your concerns. Itís all fair game. I tried a GFX R the other day and disliked it. I understand.
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Im not disagreeing with your preferences. I just donít believe most people that are Fuji X buyers (as a primary system) are cross shopping with Leica. Iím sure thereís a small minority that do/will but theyíre the exception.

    I didnít take your criticism as anti-Fuji at all. You were simply expressing your concerns. Itís all fair game. I tried a GFX R the other day and disliked it. I understand.
    Nelson - you are too much of a gentleman to ever disagree with someone's personal preferences - I didnt mean my post to convey that impression. Re people switching from Fuji to Leica - hahahah I totally agree - very little chance of that for all sorts of reasons. However there are people who (like me) are very right eyed biased and really like the viewfinder on the left end of a camera body (what marketers are calling 'rangefinder style' ) rather than around midway - so in film dats I p[referred to shoot with XPan/Mamiya711 and Leica M

    these days for mirrorless the choices are pretty limited - gets down to XPro-3 / Leica CL or M and Sony 6 series. I will try out an XPro-3 but I suspect that I won't be prepared to accept an EVF that isn't as good as the XT-3.

    Getting more 'precise' with my concerns on EVF : The OVF 'hybrid viewfinder' gives a magnification of .52X, sorry I can't work with that kind of view...and if one wishes to employ manual focus- really on focus by wire lenses? too hard for me...or maybe my typical use for snap shotters is - snap shot as in fast.
    Meanwhile - the EVF has the same number of pixels as XT-3 but magnification is .66X V Fuji XT-3 at .75X.
    Serious differences in actual viewfinder and therefore shooting experience.

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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Nelson - you are too much of a gentleman to ever disagree with someone's personal preferences - I didnt mean my post to convey that impression. Re people switching from Fuji to Leica - hahahah I totally agree - very little chance of that for all sorts of reasons. However there are people who (like me) are very right eyed biased and really like the viewfinder on the left end of a camera body (what marketers are calling 'rangefinder style' ) rather than around midway - so in film dats I p[referred to shoot with XPan/Mamiya711 and Leica M

    these days for mirrorless the choices are pretty limited - gets down to XPro-3 / Leica CL or M and Sony 6 series. I will try out an XPro-3 but I suspect that I won't be prepared to accept an EVF that isn't as good as the XT-3.

    Getting more 'precise' with my concerns on EVF : The OVF 'hybrid viewfinder' gives a magnification of .52X, sorry I can't work with that kind of view...and if one wishes to employ manual focus- really on focus by wire lenses? too hard for me...or maybe my typical use for snap shotters is - snap shot as in fast.
    Meanwhile - the EVF has the same number of pixels as XT-3 but magnification is .66X V Fuji XT-3 at .75X.
    Serious differences in actual viewfinder and therefore shooting experience.
    Well thatís a real physiological issue. Like I eluded to, thatís a fair observation and reasoning for wanting to shift to Leica or Sony. If cost isnít an issue, and itís a backup kit I believe that Leica might be a better option than Sony but if you shoot Sony FE then the APS-C bodies are a natural option for consideration.
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Nelson - you are too much of a gentleman to ever disagree with someone's personal preferences - I didnt mean my post to convey that impression. Re people switching from Fuji to Leica - hahahah I totally agree - very little chance of that for all sorts of reasons. However there are people who (like me) are very right eyed biased and really like the viewfinder on the left end of a camera body (what marketers are calling 'rangefinder style' ) rather than around midway - so in film dats I p[referred to shoot with XPan/Mamiya711 and Leica M

    these days for mirrorless the choices are pretty limited - gets down to XPro-3 / Leica CL or M and Sony 6 series. I will try out an XPro-3 but I suspect that I won't be prepared to accept an EVF that isn't as good as the XT-3.

    Getting more 'precise' with my concerns on EVF : The OVF 'hybrid viewfinder' gives a magnification of .52X, sorry I can't work with that kind of view...and if one wishes to employ manual focus- really on focus by wire lenses? too hard for me...or maybe my typical use for snap shotters is - snap shot as in fast.
    Meanwhile - the EVF has the same number of pixels as XT-3 but magnification is .66X V Fuji XT-3 at .75X.
    Serious differences in actual viewfinder and therefore shooting experience.
    I'm like you Pete, I prefer a "rangefinder" style viewing experience - a window on the left hand end of the body. I'm looking - literally - for something to stuff in a jacket pocket. I had a look at the XE-3, which I think is the forgotten Fuji in a way. It's seriously small and light - 335g or something. However the VF experience isn't the greatest and there's a noticeable lag switching between screen and viewfinder and back again. With a small prime it absolutely fits the bill and is surprisingly capable. I just don't know about the whole VF thing.

    Does anyone have user experience with the XE-3?
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    While not having held or seen an xp3 in person, and going by what I have viewed and read:

    My xp2 serves me fine. I want to pick it up and photograph something. Can’t say what it is, just fits my crappy way of shooting.

    I am not into landscapes that much.And the few I do, the xp2 suffices.

    I have access, when it comes in from the cold!, to the xt3 and have used it. It’s tech is wasted on me.
    The xh1 is back from repair, except some cosmetics, which I didn’t want to pay for. Wasted purchase, for me.

    I Dont see the benefit of a xp3 to justify its purchase, for me.

    But I wish it and its buyers all success.

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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelorus View Post
    I'm like you Pete, I prefer a "rangefinder" style viewing experience - a window on the left hand end of the body. I'm looking - literally - for something to stuff in a jacket pocket. I had a look at the XE-3, which I think is the forgotten Fuji in a way. It's seriously small and light - 335g or something. However the VF experience isn't the greatest and there's a noticeable lag switching between screen and viewfinder and back again. With a small prime it absolutely fits the bill and is surprisingly capable. I just don't know about the whole VF thing.

    Does anyone have user experience with the XE-3?
    Yep
    https://www.getdpi.com/forum/fuji/35...tml#post762337
    a very fine camera, very mature compared to size.
    I use it too little, but I won't sell, dreaming on using it more, with that magical 18/2 on..
    its just as a pocket-XT2/3 to me...
    perhaps I sell both the XT2 and XT3 and keep the X-E3 with just the 90/2(the purest-magic-drawing-lens-at-all), 16/1.4 the 18/2 - and perhaps the tiny pancake 27/2.8 when it shall be nearest-possible-pocket-camera (and you really don't want to bring anything..)
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelorus View Post
    I'm like you Pete, I prefer a "rangefinder" style viewing experience - a window on the left hand end of the body. I'm looking - literally - for something to stuff in a jacket pocket. I had a look at the XE-3, which I think is the forgotten Fuji in a way. It's seriously small and light - 335g or something. However the VF experience isn't the greatest and there's a noticeable lag switching between screen and viewfinder and back again. With a small prime it absolutely fits the bill and is surprisingly capable. I just don't know about the whole VF thing.

    Does anyone have user experience with the XE-3?
    Interesting you bring the XE-3 up Pelorus - may be worth looking at as a small compact and left side viewfinder option ...
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorkil View Post
    Yep
    https://www.getdpi.com/forum/fuji/35...tml#post762337
    a very fine camera, very mature compared to size.
    I use it too little, but I won't sell, dreaming on using it more, with that magical 18/2 on..
    its just as a pocket-XT2/3 to me...
    perhaps I sell both the XT2 and XT3 and keep the X-E3 with just the 90/2(the purest-magic-drawing-lens-at-all), 16/1.4 the 18/2 - and perhaps the tiny pancake 27/2.8 when it shall be nearest-possible-pocket-camera (and you really don't want to bring anything..)
    When I had the Xp1, I only had two native lenses with it for a long time: the 2/18 and the 1.4/35. Would buy them again if I ever go back to the XP world. I noticed that this was probably the camera I used the most for street, due to its optical view finder and the autofocus. I still like the concept, but I don't really want (again) another system, and I am not prepared yet to sell anything. Still got my X100F, which sits nicely between the 18 and 35, got a central shutter and a flash attached.

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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I think this was a very fair and interesting Review of the XPro3 - worth watching.

    made me prepared to at least test the thing and see how I feel in use...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkJ5o7ysXkI
    you may like this one, too ....
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by Photon42 View Post
    you may like this one, too ....
    Hi there Photon - thank you very much for the link - I think Chris absolutely 'nailed it'...also it is a gem of a chanell - so thanks.

    Pete
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Well for better or worse, and despite this post we have just taken advantage of some very aggressive pricing and bought an X Pro 3.

    We've been talking about rounding out the kit with something pocketable. I mentioned the XE3 above but in the end we decided to go with the XP3. Mainly autofocus and VF is better than the XE3.

    I finally decided that the screen wasn't that big an issue, despite that post

    My other half when she saw the XP2 in my hands said "it's much too small for you" - it disappears in my paws. But in fact I think it will be OK. Just have to wait 3 weeks for delivery now.

    I think I saw Dante's little brother running around this thread just now...
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Pelorus, congrats on the XP3. I am sure it is going to be a fine camera. It is funny, the XP3 screen was not that much of an issue for me. Yes, it was an unusual design move, but it did give some flexibility to use the X Pro at waist level. There is some functionality in the XP3 that is really attractive like the RAW HDR and frame averaging.

    What really did not work for me in the X Pro3 was the loss of the dual-magnification OVF. That is really important for the use of both the XF14 and XF50--there are no frame lines for the XF14, but the entire field of the OVF approximated it well enough. So with my lenses, 14mm, 23mm, 50mm, and 90mm, the XP2/1 OVF design is important. And I am one of the few XP2 owners that relies on the OVF for most of my shooting. I am sure the EVF is much better in the XP3, and while I use the LCD, I never really connected with EVFs. Given Fuji have determined their user-base primarily uses the EVF, I doubt the dual-magnification OVF will make it back in future models.

    Speaking of Dante, I have a second XP2 on order. Could not miss the chance of the Fuji end of the year promotion.
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Thanks Will, I suspect I might be a predominantly EVF shooter. I am that with the 50R and I doubt this will be different. Initially this will be a one lens kit. It _does_ fit in my jacket pocket and for better or worse we've chosen the 35/2.0 lens. It's not a pancake but it seems to be the best compromise for size, weight, image quality and WR.

    I'd be interested in feedback on that lens...now that we've stumped our money.

    In a way this will initially be a very capable P&S. It will pair with both the Alpa STC and the 50R to fill a gap in the kit. Bit shocking when you say it like that

    Regards
    Mike

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Pelorus, congrats on the XP3. I am sure it is going to be a fine camera. It is funny, the XP3 screen was not that much of an issue for me. Yes, it was an unusual design move, but it did give some flexibility to use the X Pro at waist level. There is some functionality in the XP3 that is really attractive like the RAW HDR and frame averaging.

    What really did not work for me in the X Pro3 was the loss of the dual-magnification OVF. That is really important for the use of both the XF14 and XF50--there are no frame lines for the XF14, but the entire field of the OVF approximated it well enough. So with my lenses, 14mm, 23mm, 50mm, and 90mm, the XP2/1 OVF design is important. And I am one of the few XP2 owners that relies on the OVF for most of my shooting. I am sure the EVF is much better in the XP3, and while I use the LCD, I never really connected with EVFs. Given Fuji have determined their user-base primarily uses the EVF, I doubt the dual-magnification OVF will make it back in future models.

    Speaking of Dante, I have a second XP2 on order. Could not miss the chance of the Fuji end of the year promotion.
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    I handled an X-Pro3 yesterday for the first time. That was Saturday, Friday I had taken my sold X-Pro2 to UPS. I have some sellers remorse. After having the P2 for a year I got an X-H1 on that crazy sale. I found I loved the larger better EVF. I found i really like a folding screen. A few other features on the H I found I really like are also on the P3 but not the P2. I shot Leica film M's for decades and loved the finder but turns out i seldom used it on the P2. The Pr0 2 was barely used after getting the XH.

    So the X-Pro3. I liked it very much. Side by side to the XH the EVF of the P3 is every bit as good and far better if you are an EVF user than the P2. The AF is very good and tracking in C-AF is very good. I had borrowed a friends X-T30 during the week. This was my first glimpse into how much better it would be over the P2 (BTW the XH is faster/better than the P2, double the computer power vs the P2 and X-T2). Other things of the P3 are very P2 like. The learning curve will be very short. The folding screen=so what to me. It's fine. I'm not chimper.

    So really the P3 has what I felt the P2 lacked and for the most part the XH has, great AF and a better EVF. I will be getting a Pro3, should have yesterday but I felt that I needed more than 24 hours between the departure of the 2 to make way for the 3. WHY.

    Also tried for the first time since an early rental X-E2 a 23mm 1.4 My god the AF is far far faster on an XH/P3 than what I got on that X-E2. Very nice if a bit large.

    Neil
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelorus View Post
    I'd be interested in feedback on that lens...now that we've stumped our money.
    I have the 23mm f/2 lens, not the 35mm, so I can't speak directly to the quality. However, the 23mm is one of my most used lenses (I really like the 50mm f/2 as well). It is a good all round lens for the X Pro2. It is weak at the minimum focus distance when at f/2, but works really well stopped down. At other distances, I find it a good lens regardless of the aperture. The 35mm is shorter than the 23mm, so it will be more portable, but probably not pocketable. Or no more pocketable than a Leica M, which is a similar size.

    But this will be more portable than your GFX: my other camera is a Pentax 645D and so I looked for something that I could carry and shoot more frequently. I found the Fuji X Pros a great travel camera, particularly when the purpose of the travel is not photography, but has some room for photography. It feels like a real camera, if you know what i mean. And a three-lens kit is remarkably small, at least three-prime lens kit (I did spec out a Sony 24MP mirrorless when I was looking at the XP2, but that was not only more expensive, it was also heavier and larger, mostly to do with the lenses).

    The X Pro with a single prime is a lot of fun to use.
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    I like his reviews, but although he's not a hipster, he does seem kind of pretentious
    I honestly sort of can't stand his reviews with the approach. It's like this very deep serious personal tragic-drama thing.

    - Ricardo
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Well, the Eagle has landed. The dealer told me yesterday that it would be January not 21 December as promised. I thought about that for a little and rang Fuji customer service and asked what delivery status for Dura Black was. They asked who the dealer was and looked up various things and said: "late December"....and that could mean 2 days or 10 they said.

    At midday the dealer rang and said "it's here". It transpires that a sole Dura Black had arrived from Fuji this morning

    The first thing I can say is the Dura finish is an absolute grease magnet. My hands were freshly washed and still left marks all over it. It looks really grotty, really quickly.

    The camera is beaut though. There are a couple of differences to how the GFX 50R and the Xpro 3 handle things like command dial setup. Once I had that sorted I found, what I think are a couple of small software bugs - labelling rather than functionality. These persisted even after the app told me there was a firmware update and did it.

    Some experimenting to do but first impressions are great...in about a week I'll stop looking for information on the back of the camera, until then it's a little smile-making.
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelorus View Post
    Well, the Eagle has landed. The dealer told me yesterday that it would be January not 21 December as promised. I thought about that for a little and rang Fuji customer service and asked what delivery status for Dura Black was. They asked who the dealer was and looked up various things and said: "late December"....and that could mean 2 days or 10 they said.

    At midday the dealer rang and said "it's here". It transpires that a sole Dura Black had arrived from Fuji this morning

    The first thing I can say is the Dura finish is an absolute grease magnet. My hands were freshly washed and still left marks all over it. It looks really grotty, really quickly.

    The camera is beaut though. There are a couple of differences to how the GFX 50R and the Xpro 3 handle things like command dial setup. Once I had that sorted I found, what I think are a couple of small software bugs - labelling rather than functionality. These persisted even after the app told me there was a firmware update and did it.

    Some experimenting to do but first impressions are great...in about a week I'll stop looking for information on the back of the camera, until then it's a little smile-making.
    Looking forward to your thoughts and photos!

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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Well the first thought is that it's completely unacceptable for a camera of this value to be delivered without a battery charger!! An empty battery takes 5 hours to charge via USB-C so who's getting up in the middle of the night to charge another battery...and tying up a computer to charge the camera, cables and crap...Fujifilm if you are reading this send me a charger!!

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Looking forward to your thoughts and photos!

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    Re: The X-Pro3

    And as for photos...this is the first shot with the 35/2...which I like already. It's just a snap of a flower and I think it was moving in the breeze. More work to do on focus points. Straight out of the camera transferred to the iOS app, standard film simulation.

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    Re: The X-Pro3

    This is an interesting process. First thoughts...the Fuji JPGs SOOC are fantastic. By comparison the RAW files in C1 look soft and lacking in contrast. With a little work in C1 the RAW looks good. However for the first time I can see why it is many of these Fuji shooters are happy to just work with JPGs SOOC. This shot is a RAW worked up in C1 with a little contrast and some sharpening and a little noise reduction.

    Next thing to note is that this is no MF sensor...it is an APS-C sensor and the first thing I noticed was the noise at ISO 1000. Not ugly, not bad, but it's there. Have a look at her left bicep - that's where it's most noticeable. I can get completely rid of it in C1...but the whole shot looks soft. Lots more to do, this was just a shot as the light faded.

    I like using this camera though it's a real shooters camera, I have it set to show the image for 1.5 seconds in the EVF (disappears as you depress the shutter) and I don't miss the screen at all. Fast, simple, light, discreet.

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    Re: The X-Pro3

    It's a bit of a hot day here today...44 Celsius (111.2 F) and not expected to fall below 35 Celsius until midnight or so. Everyone is hunkered down inside in the shade.

    This was a look at the DR of the little sensor. After so long with MF sensors I'm trying to figure out what I can get away with, what the sensor does in various circumstances.

    Where's the whippet? This one the top right is completely blown out and unrecoverable. I'd normally reckon on getting that back. The HDR tools in C1 have had a go at this and it's the best I can get.



    This old warrior doesn't like the cold so he's as far from the air conditioning as he can get and in his favourite spot - sun and cushion.

    The white area on his hind leg is at the far right of the histogram but at 100% there is discernible detail after a little work with the HDR tool.



    It's interesting working out the boundaries.
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    A couple of random observations:

    • It won't autfocus on a flat surface like a wall - even if there's a light band across the wall. It simply won't focus.
    • The shutter button is set more to the centre of the body - it seems - than the 50R and it's not the best placement, it doesn't fall easily under my finger.
    • The front command dial - which I use all the time - is, unlike the 50R, not concentric with the shutter button and it is quite thin. It doesn't feel ideal
    • I will probably end up running this camera, like the 50R, with a stop or 2 of negative exposure comp. Its out of the box metering seems to me to be overexposed. However I acknowledge that exposure is a very personal thing.


    None of these things (except the autofocus) are major. I really like this camera in the hand but these are a few nitpicks...except for autofocus. Maybe I'm expecting too much but it reliably will not autofocus on a light coloured background even if there are contrast changes.
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    Re: The X-Pro 2.5


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    Re: The X-Pro3

    I can see a preset coming on... Out of the camera the RAW files are quite flat, low contrast, lowish saturation and low sharpness.

    This picture has had the following done in moderation:

    • Increase saturation
    • Increase contrast
    • Reduce highlight
    • Add sharpness, clarity and structure


    None of these were major changes but together they tightened the picture and took it from a very flat presentation to something with some definition. Of course this is all a matter of taste. Having had no other experience of Fuji's APS-C sensors I don't know whether this is how they all come out of the camera and I'd be interested in some feedback. I don't dislike the files, but compared to the 50R they need more work to be acceptable. With the 50R I can often use a file SOOC, I don't feel I can do that with these RAW files...the JPGs are different - they are pretty amazing out the camera.



    Just as an aside, there are no artefacts showing here. The marks on the weatherboards on the house are there in reality.
    Last edited by Pelorus; 4 Weeks Ago at 15:33.

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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Straight RAF files have less of everything compared to the JPEG files out of Fuji ( and most other cameras ). In Fuji's case you also have the option of choosing which 'film emulation' you wish to use in JPEG - of course in C1 or LR you can also choose to set the raw file using one of the film emulsions as a Jpeg or choose one of the standard presets supplied by Adobe or C1.

    The point of a raw file is to deliver the least mucked around set of data so that you can post process to your interpretation of what you want to show - the huge industry of people selling styles and profiles by the truck load as well as software which comes with its own 'canned' 'look' is all about making it easy for people to get a look they like.

    FWIW : my workflow for ALL cameras is to set the raw file using a linear profile to begin with and go from there ie avoid as much as possible ANY third party interpretation(s) - this linear profile is very flat compared to any 'sauce' that adobe or C1 wish to provide as a starting point.

    Anyway - you probably know that what you see on your monitor is going to be very different to what I see on my monitor - from exactly the same file anyway - since monitor calibration and viewing conditions varies so widely from person to person. This is why B&W photos shared on internet work well for most people- since monitor discrepancies have less impact on viewing experience.

    If you shoot video - most manufacturers provide a very flat raw file for those who wish to colour grade - Fuji call this Eterna - but what you actually want is a very flat 'boring' unsharpened' file to begin with - giving you more control over the whole 'development' process - same is true for stills shooting - if you want to develop your own style and look.

    Pete
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Thanks Pete, I absolutely understand and agree with that strategy. I guess what interested me is that, at least in my case, the GFX 50R RAW files are coming out of the camera not particularly flat compared to the XPro which seems to be very flat and ready for anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Straight RAF files have less of everything compared to the JPEG files out of Fuji ( and most other cameras ). In Fuji's case you also have the option of choosing which 'film emulation' you wish to use in JPEG - of course in C1 or LR you can also choose to set the raw file using one of the film emulsions as a Jpeg or choose one of the standard presets supplied by Adobe or C1.

    The point of a raw file is to deliver the least mucked around set of data so that you can post process to your interpretation of what you want to show - the huge industry of people selling styles and profiles by the truck load as well as software which comes with its own 'canned' 'look' is all about making it easy for people to get a look they like.

    FWIW : my workflow for ALL cameras is to set the raw file using a linear profile to begin with and go from there ie avoid as much as possible ANY third party interpretation(s) - this linear profile is very flat compared to any 'sauce' that adobe or C1 wish to provide as a starting point.

    Anyway - you probably know that what you see on your monitor is going to be very different to what I see on my monitor - from exactly the same file anyway - since monitor calibration and viewing conditions varies so widely from person to person. This is why B&W photos shared on internet work well for most people- since monitor discrepancies have less impact on viewing experience.

    If you shoot video - most manufacturers provide a very flat raw file for those who wish to colour grade - Fuji call this Eterna - but what you actually want is a very flat 'boring' unsharpened' file to begin with - giving you more control over the whole 'development' process - same is true for stills shooting - if you want to develop your own style and look.

    Pete

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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelorus View Post
    Thanks Pete, I absolutely understand and agree with that strategy. I guess what interested me is that, at least in my case, the GFX 50R RAW files are coming out of the camera not particularly flat compared to the XPro which seems to be very flat and ready for anything.
    No surprises with what you are seeing Pelorus - the JPEGs typically have inbuilt : higher contrast and more saturation with some sharpening straight out of camera. What I do like about Fuji's in-camera processing is the ability to actually modify the values of any profile you choose to shoot as JPEG - great for happy snaps - especially in B&W.

    Enjoy your lightweight Fuji - they are great cameras matched to some superb lightweight optics - my kit is 16/1.4 | 23/2 | and 56/1.2 - the 90 is tempting....
    Pete
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    My Pro3 arrived Thursday. Saturday was my first day doing any shooting at all and it was grab and run silly family stuff as one of the kids was over and making cookies, running errands and spacing out to an iPad. Actually exactly what this camera is for. I have the "Fujicron Trinity".

    Compared to the sold Pro2 the AF is a great leap, almost as good as a 2007 Nikon D3. By this I mean the AFC is much better at doing what it's name implies. The Pro2 wasn't very good at it BUT are you following an 8 year old or maybe trying to keep someones left eye in focus. Speaking of eyes, the Face/Eye detection is also far better. All of this isn't news to X-T3 users but I wasn't. My X-H1, still have and love it ,was better than the PRO2 as it has two processors onboard. So the AF is better and I really like having even more focus points on the sensor too. Really though, why is Fuji and maybe others, I can't say as I've tried the cameras I've tried behind the Nikons (Canon also) AF performance? That Nikon has just been a yardstick, what I compare to. Now a D4S is the device to best or at least meet if it can. I have to be fair. I don't use the Fuji and the Nikon for the same things. One isn't the other. Also I guess that a lot of the other photography I see is online, Instagram, Blogs etc really doesn't depend on really fast AF anyway. If things are relatively static ie silhouettes of people walking into/out of shadow on a street on this planet who even needs AF. BTW manual focus on the P3 is pretty easy.

    So I got that out of the way. The larger finder is great. I can blame the XH for making me want that over the pro2 finder. I won't miss that optical finder of the 2 as it turns out I rarely use it and I used "M's" for decades. Classic Neg simulation. Love it. I shoot RAW + JPG but have no shame or feel less of a shooter if the JPG nails it. I bet I used the fold down screen for shooting sneaky waste levels for a third of yesterdays shots. Combine that with AFC and wide tracking focus and you're off. Very very good.

    I am OK with the folding rear display. I never was a heavy chimper. With mirrorless you kinda chimp with every shot in the EVF. The Nikons leading up to this were a chimp once, maybe twice and then get on with it. It's not a thing to get bent over.

    So early days but I love it. I'm in the NE corner of the USA. I'm wearing a down parka and this camera with either 'cron fits in the pocket of the coat. Gotta like that.

    Neil
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  46. #96
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Thanks Neil, this is a really timely post for me. I have no yardstick to compare the XPro3 to. I jumped straight from a film M Leica to an Alpa with MFDB and around 3 months ago a 50R was my first autofocus camera. I read the reviews and had limited expectations of autofocus and the 50R clearly exceeded my expectations.

    With the XPro3 (currently with the 35/2) I had much higher expectations...and to date they haven't been met. I don't know what a Sony or a Nikon or any other "decent autofocus" system can do so my only expectation is what I think it ought to be able to do. Some simple things:

    • It won't focus on high contrast light bands on a plain, off-white wall...surely it should?
    • Once the ISO gets into high numbers it needs really, really clear cues in order to focus...I'd expected better with -6EV capability
    • Using spot and eye detect and AFC and keeping the spot on my daughter's face it missed every shot as she walked 30 meters down the pavement towards me. The light was good and contrasty. I used 11fps burst just for fun. Eye and face detect only started to get in on the job as she got within about 8-10 meters and it never reliably held either face or eye. The buffer filled up after around 62 shots using uncompressed RAW and fine JPG - so 5.5 seconds or so - not bad.


    A lot of this might be operator skill and settings. I'd be keen to have others' experience of what settings I should use and what I should expect. With the walk down the street I had expected that it would reliably hold focus the whole way and that it would grab her face and eye and hold them from about 7 or 8 meters or so.

    I'm sure in a few weeks I'll have my head around this and be using the settings that optimise performance. For now this is an area where performance feels no better than the 50R I dearly love the 50R but I had expected better.


    Quote Originally Posted by neilss View Post
    My Pro3 arrived Thursday. Saturday was my first day doing any shooting at all and it was grab and run silly family stuff as one of the kids was over and making cookies, running errands and spacing out to an iPad. Actually exactly what this camera is for. I have the "Fujicron Trinity".

    Compared to the sold Pro2 the AF is a great leap, almost as good as a 2007 Nikon D3. [snip]
    Neil

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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Pelorus Maybe I can help. So the 50r was your first AF camera? That camera has good AF I've read but supposedly an X-T3 or X-Pro is better so maybe some operator learning is needed. They all need to be learned to some degree, strengths and weaknesses and all.

    Just today I focused on some bright and contrasty light on a wall. Maybe yours has less contrast? For sure it can't focus on a blank wall, not sure what camera can. That may be just one example you need to watch for. The Hi-ISO focus? Not sure what to say there but they need some information, an edge or contrast to latch onto. I've found the Pro3 so far to dig deep for focus in super low light but it needs information. I know that sometimes even a Leica M would be a real devil to focus in super low light and I'd need to find an edge or contrast to use to get something going in the Rf window. You may find the same thing here.

    Eye/Face recognition......read the manual and look at Youtube for demos. Youtube can save you here.

    It is weird but in Single AF the Face detection works and finds a face when you DON"T have you finger on the shutter button. It just goes into search mode looking for a face. The options for face detection change when in C-AF. Yesterday I found face detection worked well. Now for using face detection (or CF in general) when using C-AF you also should be aware that what focus point you use AND what size point(s) matter. I find wide tracking works better than zone for me. Use the focus point to grab the subject and then let the camera move the points to follow the subject. You have to be the one to start the process. It seems to follow really well. It mat be that Wide Tracking, setting #2 works better than the Face detection in your example BUT again see if Youtube can explain a way that works.

    I also find AF C Custom setting #2 that ignores being distracted from other subjects helps as the camera is trying to not leave the initial selection.
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  48. #98
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Thanks Neil, I greatly appreciate your help. I'll be the first to admit that I'm starting from a low knowledge/skill base so it all needs to be learned. I'll work through some of your suggestions and scout through Youtube.

    Kind regards
    Mike


    Quote Originally Posted by neilss View Post
    Pelorus Maybe I can help. So the 50r was your first AF camera? That camera has good AF I've read but supposedly an X-T3 or X-Pro is better so maybe some operator learning is needed. They all need to be learned to some degree, strengths and weaknesses and all.

    Just today I focused on some bright and contrasty light on a wall. Maybe yours has less contrast? For sure it can't focus on a blank wall, not sure what camera can. That may be just one example you need to watch for. The Hi-ISO focus? Not sure what to say there but they need some information, an edge or contrast to latch onto. I've found the Pro3 so far to dig deep for focus in super low light but it needs information. I know that sometimes even a Leica M would be a real devil to focus in super low light and I'd need to find an edge or contrast to use to get something going in the Rf window. You may find the same thing here.

    Eye/Face recognition......read the manual and look at Youtube for demos. Youtube can save you here.

    It is weird but in Single AF the Face detection works and finds a face when you DON"T have you finger on the shutter button. It just goes into search mode looking for a face. The options for face detection change when in C-AF. Yesterday I found face detection worked well. Now for using face detection (or CF in general) when using C-AF you also should be aware that what focus point you use AND what size point(s) matter. I find wide tracking works better than zone for me. Use the focus point to grab the subject and then let the camera move the points to follow the subject. You have to be the one to start the process. It seems to follow really well. It mat be that Wide Tracking, setting #2 works better than the Face detection in your example BUT again see if Youtube can explain a way that works.

    I also find AF C Custom setting #2 that ignores being distracted from other subjects helps as the camera is trying to not leave the initial selection.

  49. #99
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    I also found Fuji's special autofocus site...who knew?

  50. #100
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    Re: The X-Pro3

    Never owned this cam before. Any help on the optimal SD card speed for the Xpro3?

    I.e., is 150mb/s too slow and is 300mb/s too fast? Thanks.

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