Knorp
Well-known member
Manuals are online now: https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/e-mount-body-ilce-7-series/ilce-7rm5/manuals
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Sony A7R5
- Thread starter Knorp
- Start date
It's disappointing, to me, that the focus stacking feature requires 'Image Edge' software to compile the files. If that requirement were not mandated I would be a candidate for the new camera. As it is I'll use my GFX for focus stacking and my 7RM4 for lighter travel.
Victor B.
Victor B.
pegelli
Well-known member
Can't you just take the raw files from the focus bracket, process those and then do the stacking in a program like Helicon Focus? If that's possible that would be ideal for me. I'd rather have some control of the stacking process vs. the camera spitting out one stacked jpg which might or might not be to my liking.
Knorp
Well-known member
From DPReview's comparison "Sony a7R V vs a7R IV: what's changed and is it worth the upgrade?" : "Focus bracketing and multi-shot high resolution modes"
Pieter..... so far I have had not seen any confirmation that the focus stacked files can be processed with any other software other than Image Edge. If I am able to use my preferred software Helicon/Zerene then my interest is piqued. DPReview's comparison is the first indication that 'maybe' software other than Image Edge can be used.
Victor B.
Victor B.
pegelli
Well-known member
I have high hopes Victor, since the focus stacking is a bracketing drive mode and all other bracketing drive modes create multiple files that can be processed separately using multiple programs. I can't see a good reason why suddenly this bracketing drive mode would behave differently. But it would be nice to get confirmation on that. By the time I would consider buying a A7Rv a few years will have passed and we will know for sure. I'm very far from an early adopter and my A7ii/A7Rii combo does all I want/need at the moment.
4season
Well-known member
A7R5 sounds like a good evolutionary upgrade, albeit with added mass, some loss of battery life, and of course, that nearly 4K USD price! But IMO, sometimes it's more fun to skip a few generations and be totally blown away by all of the improvements which occur over multiple camera generations. Going directly from A7 -> A7R4 has been a satisfying upgrade for me, and I look forward to the wonders which the A7R8 will bring.
A7R5's expanded range of image file options comes as a surprise: To date, I've never noticed any quality improvement in Lossless Raw file options versus default Compressed Raw, so aside from satisfying my curiosity, I've disregarded the former. But is there lossless raw magic which I am missing because I do not have a fancier 10-bit HDR monitor?
Focus-stacking already works in Photoshop, and you don't need any special file formats to use it. But automatic focus bracketing would be handy.
Pixel-shift with greater tolerance for minor motions sounds more like an Imaging Edge upgrade rather than a camera hardware thing? Will be keen to see whether my A7R4 can likewise benefit.
Admit that I'm mostly ignorant of my current camera's more advanced focus modes. Although they sound amazing, A7R5's expanded options also seem awfully specialized (insect recognition??) and I'd probably forget about them. Already felt like a dummy when I realized with amazement that my camera had a silent-shooting mode.
A7R5's expanded range of image file options comes as a surprise: To date, I've never noticed any quality improvement in Lossless Raw file options versus default Compressed Raw, so aside from satisfying my curiosity, I've disregarded the former. But is there lossless raw magic which I am missing because I do not have a fancier 10-bit HDR monitor?
Focus-stacking already works in Photoshop, and you don't need any special file formats to use it. But automatic focus bracketing would be handy.
Pixel-shift with greater tolerance for minor motions sounds more like an Imaging Edge upgrade rather than a camera hardware thing? Will be keen to see whether my A7R4 can likewise benefit.
Admit that I'm mostly ignorant of my current camera's more advanced focus modes. Although they sound amazing, A7R5's expanded options also seem awfully specialized (insect recognition??) and I'd probably forget about them. Already felt like a dummy when I realized with amazement that my camera had a silent-shooting mode.
ggibson
Well-known member
Albert Dros has a good write up with detail about focus bracketing:
www.albertdros.com
He mentions doing the stacking in photoshop.
DPR has a couple pixel shift samples. One of them had some noticeable mosaic artifacts on a static part of the image even though the image was shot on a tripod. That was a little concerning to me to see. Although it did look like it had processed the motion well in other parts of the shot.
The new A7RV for me as a Landscape Photographer
And so it’s finally here: the long awaited Sony A7RV. With the A7RIV announcement in 2019, it’s more than 3 years later. The A7RIV has been my main camera for my photos. But I have to say: With the many new Sony cameras that did came out in between (A7IV, A1, A7SIII etc), the body and...
www.albertdros.com
DPR has a couple pixel shift samples. One of them had some noticeable mosaic artifacts on a static part of the image even though the image was shot on a tripod. That was a little concerning to me to see. Although it did look like it had processed the motion well in other parts of the shot.
Graham..... thanks for posting that review. The review covers a lot of the features I am interested in especially the new 'Bulb' mode with the countdown timer...... very nice. Albert Dros does confirm that focus stacked files can be processed with Helicon/Zerene. Sony also will 'In Camera' place the stacked files in a separate folder so that they are easy to find - another very nice feature. The team at Sony have come up with a potential winner
.
Victor B.
. Victor B.
JeffK
Well-known member
on the Sony Play store there's an app you can get to do frame averaging. I tried it on the A7rII. Limited use though, since it requires activating the shutter for each frame, as opposed to only using the eShutter. Anyone know if further developments have happened with that?
JeffK
Well-known member
Found these articles, I guess it's still up in the air.
Frame Averaging: How it Should Work on Every Camera
diglloyd.com
ggibson
Well-known member
After the A7rII, they changed the underlying "OS" framework of their cameras (differing builds of Android under the hood, I believe). It improved a lot of things like startup time, menus, loading, but the Play store was no longer accessible. Some of the old apps like Smooth Reflection and Digital Sky/Filter were pretty unique in the way that they would output a single RAW file with the frame averaging or blending already baked in. These things can be done in Photoshop or other post-processing software as well though, so I guess Sony decided to go back to a more manual traditional camera setup. So it's effectively dead development-wise, but you can still access these apps on the older cameras that use them.
I found the apps useful at times, but difficult to navigate and control. A big challenge is the processing intensity of doing all of this computation on multiple 61MP files, so it's not really surprising that features like pixel shift, focus stacking, or image averaging/blending are expected to be done on a desktop or laptop. Interestingly though those Sony Apps would do the stacking as the exposures were being made, so it was actually pretty efficient, but pixel shift with motion comp and focus stacking are probably on a different level than pixel averaging.
I have received my 7RM5 and thought I would leave a few comments. Focus bracketing is a very nice feature. I have only tried one of the methods where the camera takes 3 shots - one in front and one in the rear of where the focus point is placed. It works really well for my intended uses. Both methods allow for the setting of the 'Step' so if the goal is to just slightly expand a focus area the step could be set low and the aperture could be fairly wide with the resulting three shots just expanding the focus area. One disappointment is that this is nested in the 'Drive Mode' menu along with timed shutter delay and the two cannot be combined. So for hands free operation a remote or phone must be used.
The pixel shift feature is a major improvement as it really does allow for objects/people to be moving and somehow it fixes it. I took a quick 4 shot today with a fairly good breeze and was surprised that anything that was moving around - including a briskly walking person - were handled with ease. Absolutely amazing. The Pixel Shifted files are stunning and can really be re sized easily especially with GAI. I have sized up to 14000 pixels on the wide side and those files are very natural. Again, very stunning.
Image Edge has really been improved and works flawlessly on my Mac. Operations are very quick and if wanted shifted files can be saved in Tif format. I leave everything in ARQ as PS will open those files.
So far very happy with my purchase......
Victor B.
The pixel shift feature is a major improvement as it really does allow for objects/people to be moving and somehow it fixes it. I took a quick 4 shot today with a fairly good breeze and was surprised that anything that was moving around - including a briskly walking person - were handled with ease. Absolutely amazing. The Pixel Shifted files are stunning and can really be re sized easily especially with GAI. I have sized up to 14000 pixels on the wide side and those files are very natural. Again, very stunning.
Image Edge has really been improved and works flawlessly on my Mac. Operations are very quick and if wanted shifted files can be saved in Tif format. I leave everything in ARQ as PS will open those files.
So far very happy with my purchase......
Victor B.
Some additional comments: I actually can't believe my eyes when I see what is on my monitor. I don't have to print anything as I know how the print will look but these images are almost beyond belief. 16 shot pixel shift images produce a file that is beyond anything else I own.... this includes a Phase 4150. The sixteen captures are very quick and when processed with 'stabilized' checked anything that was moving is fixed. There really isn't much need for that file size for me but what I am trying to achieve is travel light and yet have the capability to, if I want, produce a file that is beyond anything I already have. The MF folks would sneer and chuckle at the mere thought of a lolly Sony having these kinds of capabilities but it does. I believe this is the ultimate future for digital capture without having to miniaturize pixels even further and strain lenses further. Only increasing the speed is the next hurdle. It's impossible to post an image but I sure wish I could and let anyone just pixel peep to their hearts content. There would be a lot of wet seat pants!
My new workflow now is 3 PS (Pixel Shift) images with shifts. In portrait position a FF camera will produce a 3X2 image shifting 15mm LR that produces a (with a Sony) 135MP image with a .67 crop factor. Any upsizing I may need to produce a 48 inch print is minimal and can easily be handled with GAI. Each of the three images is a 4 PS image. Those twelve files are processed in Image Edge and outputted to ARQ. Those files open in Adobe CR and are processed just like any other raw file. The results are stunning!!!
I'm in digital heaven so far.....
A fabulous camera and a great purchase.....
Victor B.
My new workflow now is 3 PS (Pixel Shift) images with shifts. In portrait position a FF camera will produce a 3X2 image shifting 15mm LR that produces a (with a Sony) 135MP image with a .67 crop factor. Any upsizing I may need to produce a 48 inch print is minimal and can easily be handled with GAI. Each of the three images is a 4 PS image. Those twelve files are processed in Image Edge and outputted to ARQ. Those files open in Adobe CR and are processed just like any other raw file. The results are stunning!!!
I'm in digital heaven so far.....
A fabulous camera and a great purchase.....
Victor B.
k-hawinkler
Well-known member
Thanks Victor. That’s great to hear.
Maybe I should try that on my A1.
Unfortunately the A1 firmware update doesn’t support focus stacking or focus bracketing.
Have you tried that on your A7RV?
Maybe I should try that on my A1.
Unfortunately the A1 firmware update doesn’t support focus stacking or focus bracketing.
Have you tried that on your A7RV?
I
I have tried focus bracketing. There are two options - one being able to expand the focus area with three shots being taken and the other from a focus point to infinity or the end of the focus area whichever comes first. The three shot really works well and is very fast. The other method failed to reach infinity on one of my tests but did very well in an environment where the end of the focus area was prior to infinity. Not reaching infinity is a common problem with other cameras such as my 100s. I much prefer to just expand my focus area slightly and, for me, it is much easier to do that manually since its only a few images. I'm also using manual lenses most of the time. For me focus stacking really comes in handy for garden scenes such as in China or Japan where I want everything in focus and the farthest focus point is closer than infinity. If I knew I would be using it I would invest in some autofocus lenses.
My feelings are any issues with focus bracketing can easily be resolved with firmware tweaking.
Victor B.
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Hi Lou.... I'm shooting with all manual lenses except for a couple of Sigma lenses that I bought when I purchased my 7RM4. They are the old Art series - big and heavy but just happen to be stellar copies so I still have them. Buying lenses is a nightmare as I am very fussy which is why I stay with LF lenses and use my Cambo Actus. The one or two Sonys I would consider are their 135mm and the 85mm GM. For autofocus wides I would probably look at Zeiss. I just hate the thought of going through one lens after another trying to get a good one. One thing for sure is that a 16 shot PS file will tear apart a bad lens.
My main lenses are Voigtlander's 35, 50, 65 Apo lenses. Very sharp edge to edge corner to corner. I also use a Leica 90mm Apo Asph for slightly longish and after that I'm using my LF lenses which go out to 180mm. I don't shoot anything wider than 35mm but am considering the 21mm Voigtlander which gets high marks from other users. Everything is kind of slow and methodical but I have lots of fun doing things that way.
Victor B.
scho
Well-known member
IMO Panasonic's implementation of high resolution imaging via pixel shift is the best currently available, in the Lumix S1R. Neither Olympus (m43) nor Sony can come close to the high res image quality from the S1R (and it is all done in-camera to produce a single, final high res raw image file).