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ALPA 12 Pano going back into production

onasj

Active member
As you can see from other websites, the Alpa 12 Pano is going back into production, this time with rosewood grips and a gold dovetail mount adapter included.
±35 mm left/right shift
±10 mm rise/fall
tilt via ALPA tilt adapters, as usual.
I find the Pano to be one of ALPA's most beautiful creations—and they have many stunners!
Ping your ALPA dealer if you would like to order one.


 

f8orbust

Active member
Yeah, I saw this on the Linhof and Studio webiste. As much as I love the stuff Alpa makes, I roll my eyes at the price: £8.2k + VAT = £9.8k or US$12k.
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Yeah, I saw this on the Linhof and Studio webiste. As much as I love the stuff Alpa makes, I roll my eyes at the price: £8.2k + VAT = £9.8k or US$12k.

The list price is around $10,300 US$.

The kit incudes dual Rosewood Grips and the new Gold Stitching Adapter.

Alpa has quietly been running a behind the scenes query on how many interested parties there might be, and is now at a point where they will attempt a production run. If you would like one, contact your dealer, do not keep it a secret.


Steve Hendrix/CI
 
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doccdiamond

Member
Totally nuts price wise, at least the adapter is made of pure gold:)
Better wait for the new XT with more movements.
Waiting for the Phaseone bargains…😉

there will never be a P1 with such a niche in the niche product. Even for P1 to specialized. And nobody is forced to buy it.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
With a modern back what lens if any can shift 35mm? None of the Rodenstock wides can go past 12mm. I assume the 35mm is one direction I.e. full shift R is 35mm and full shift L is 35mm.
I guess a 180mm or 210 could go that far. Very limited use in my area. The 90mm may go 20mm. Rodenstock chooses to place the IC indicator in each lens which creates a hard vignetting once you shift to it.
Paul C
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
Can't imagine shifting beyond 15mm with any lens. Beyond that I would pan AND get superior results. A 16 X 9 requires 10mm LR of horizontal shifting which is my sweet spot.

Victor B.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
I own the 90. Latest version. You can’t go beyond 22mm you hit the hard vignette from the IC indicator. By 35mm the image would be pretty much useless.
70mm would be even worse.

Paul
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
Do you have an Alpa with short barrel and have you mounted the tube extension on the back of the camera which increases IC? I have a 90 SB and an Alpa XY, which can shift 45mm in one direction - I don't have time now to run a series, but had a quick look and I did not see vignetting at 34mm or even 40mm shift with the 90mm when all extension tubes are mounted on the back side ...


 
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Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Do you have an Alpa with short barrel and have you mounted the tube extension on the back of the camera which increases IC? I have a 90 SB and an Alpa XY, which can shift 45mm in one direction - I don't have time now to run a series, but had a quick look and I did not see vignetting at 34mm or even 40mm shift with the 90mm when all extension tubes are mounted on the back side ...



Rear extension makes a substantial difference.


Steve Hendrix/CI
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
Yes, I think this is one of the beauties of the Alpa system ... I am curious again about this too and will check this weekend on my XY what the limits are if all extension tubes are on the rear with the 70, 90; I unfortunately don't have the 138mm, but I think it covers everything. Other two lenses great with the Pano are the 43XL and the 60XL ofc.
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Yes, I think this is one of the beauties of the Alpa system ... I am curious again about this too and will check this weekend on my XY what the limits are if all extension tubes are on the rear with the 70, 90; I unfortunately don't have the 138mm, but I think it covers everything. Other two lenses great with the Pano are the 43XL and the 60XL ofc.

This capability (using an extension on the rear vs the front) also exists with the Cambo and Arca Swiss tech cam systems. The Rodenstock 180 HR-S would also be another lens that could exceed a straight 20mm shift - how far, I'm not sure, but I have shifted 20mm horizontally and 20mm vertically in the same shot without seeing the IC. Which is super weird to people, because it only has a stated 80mm image circle. It's one of my favorite lenses. You could even say it is reasonably priced (for a Rodenstock).


Steve Hendrix/CI
 

dchew

Well-known member
I know the 138 will go to 123mm without vignetting (20mm shift + 20mm rise). Don’t know if it will go to 130mm but I’m guessing it will. There is little sign of image degradation even wide open.

I’m not sure how I feel about the Pano. It’s obviously designed for 3:1 panos, which is wider than I like. I prefer 2.25-2.5:1. I do think panos that wide are not done with super wide lenses except for “fun to do” images. So maybe it makes some sense with longer lenses that have the necessary image circles.

Dave

Dave
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member

Have a look at the pano calculations on this page. It has set detents for a variety of Panos and the 3:1 is the extreme if you just go horizontal left and right. What this page doesn't show is a quad stitch exploiting left and right fully plus top down 10 (you could further reduce the Pano character by doing quad vertical).

So let's say you have the finder app on the iPhone and then want to do a high res landscape, valley say. Then you can "see" a 60-80ish equivalent composition and quad stitch it in a matter of seconds with the 138mm. It is an extreme kit, true, but the Pano never aimed to be a standard body.

The XY can do that too to some extent, but it goes only to 45mm on one side so you need to have multiple stitching adapters so you can twist the body around and it is rather heavy in the field. The beauty of this setup is to when you are equipped with the 70 and 138mm and then pick out landscape compositions with the help of a viewfinder IMHO.

I think it is a nice addition to the Plus whereby the Plus is the architectural and standard workhorse and this one is for special assignments or when you want to do high res landscapes in an more extreme manner than with the Plus; at least this is the way I think about it. I think they could have done 10+15 rise, but this is just my view.
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
I know the 138 will go to 123mm without vignetting (20mm shift + 20mm rise). Don’t know if it will go to 130mm but I’m guessing it will. There is little sign of image degradation even wide open.

I’m not sure how I feel about the Pano. It’s obviously designed for 3:1 panos, which is wider than I like. I prefer 2.25-2.5:1. I do think panos that wide are not done with super wide lenses except for “fun to do” images. So maybe it makes some sense with longer lenses that have the necessary image circles.

Dave

Dave

That is one use case of the clients of ours who do have it. If you think of the Pano as a scenic landscape tool, it can seem quite niche. But for some of my clients who shoot architecture with precision, it's a must, because they can use longer lenses for wider coverage. One of my architectural clients shoots the 90 HR-SW on the Pano and he can accomplish virtually the same framing as the 32 HR-W. Except that it doesn't have that short lens look, and the results are even better optically, at the edges (good as the 32 is). He shifts it to the maximum that the Pano can accommodate. You can't see the edge of the image circle.

The 70 HR-W I think would also surprise some, but I can't say by how much, the 70 HR-W I have at the moment is long barrel, and it starts to see the edge of the IC at about 23mm. With a rear spacer, it would likely get closer to that 35mm max. I don't have any doubts about the 138mm (and maybe even the 180 HR-S) being able to shift all the way out on the Pano, assuming they are short barrel mount.

It's easy to poo-poo a photographic tool because it doesn't seem to offer much advantage for some, but often there is an advantage, the type of photography one produces just doesn't take advantage of it (or require it).


Steve Hendrix/CI
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
I just procured a demo unit and will revert with feedback on edge performance of 70 and 90, 138. First impression is that it is really, really nice in terms of the new detent mechanism. Like super fast.
 

AndyPtak

Member
Hi again Steve. Could you educate me on what "that short lens look" is please? I think I know what you mean, but I could be wrong.
 

f8orbust

Active member
The lenses that seem to have the IC needed to get the most out of this body tend to be on the long side, so I'm not sure how (without focus stacking) you could create an image with the deep DOF of a single shot taken with a wide angle lens (even without tilt). The examples on the Alpa website all look like 'wide angle' images shot with long lenses, a 'look' which (to me) isn't particularly appealing. For architecture I can see that this body could be useful, but for landscape I'd rather use a wide angle lens and stich around the nodal point.
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
I think one can also look at the Pano not only as a pure Pano camera, but potentially also as a main camera which is relatively compact for what it offers, but then again not compact. Meaning: If you are not so fussed about having the smallest body possible you can use the Pano as main camera almost with the benefit of special formats. All lenses below 70 will work just perfectly fine, but you have more flex overall.

It can go 10mm up, so no real negative for the 32mm HR and only if you shoot the 50HR or above you lose some if you do architecture and need to capture the skies (excluding 43XL here because not many have it). As pure architecture photog I would prefer the Plus, but it can be a good alternative if you don't mind a bit larger size of the frame and remember you can attach stitch adapters on all sides on Alpa cameras, so you can actually get 35mm rise and 10 left right if you use the camera vertically. I find it an interesting combo of shift abilities, although I would have preferred 5 more on the rise side. So in the end it is more a convenience factor which format is better and I also love the Max / Plus for their compactness.

Another aspect worth noting which I only realized when handling it is the new detent mechanism. It is super fast and feels very nice, will upload a video so people understand.

Clearly another aspect is price, it costs more than the other bodies, so I suppose it is all about trade offs, as always.
 
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