ALPA FPS question?

[nicoswartz]

Hi All!

What's the advantage of an FPS in a macro setup instead of the electronic shutter option?
And in what scenario would you go for the FPS?

Thanks

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Flash sync. 1/125. Its crucial for the style of macro photography popularized by Peter Andrew Lusztyk.

Flash is essential for macro often. It is also the only solution I am aware of which allows you to use the most high-end of macro lenses, the 105 Digaron HR, with flash. The 105 is built in a way whereby you can't put a shutter in-between so you need a shutter behind the lens, which the FPS is.

You can do stuff like Peter with it (flash macro of everyday objects) or theoretically neg scanning with flash from beneath the negative.

The FPS comes in handy also in handheld photography where you can shoot lenses like a Contax 80 2.0 without ES artifacts, e.g. with a TC in hand.

The FPS body feels very comfortable in hand as its own camera when you add a back and a lens due to its grip.

Fantastic piece of kit for experts.

 

[f8orbust]

I needed a focal plane shutter solution for use with a motorised macro stage, so as an Alpa user I looked at the FPS too, since you can combine it via adapters with a 12 series body and get X/Y movement(s), which is really useful for composition, especially at large magnification scales. However, after mulling it over for a bit I decided to go down the Alpa Fuji GFX adapter (and don't be tempted by Chinese knock offs - for macro work at large magnification scales you really want Alpa's tolerances) plus a used Fuji GFX 100 II. It was just a more flexible, more compact solution with fewer cables to deal with. Plus, the Fuji gives you access to useful stuff like pixel shifting, tilt screen, 1/125 sync speed, ES (but no flash) etc. and the smaller sensor (compared to, say, an IQ4) is useful for a bit of extra DOF.

If you do want an FPS you can sometimes find heavily used ones surprisingly cheap - saw a pair for something like ~$1k each a few years ago IIRC. Today, lightly used examples will probably run you more than the Fuji though given the increase in the price of Alpa stuff over the intervening years.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

The main reason is flash sync and you can stitch actually with an Alpa macro system and program repeatable steps between the stitches.

So you could do a repeated two way stitch left right at different focus steps with the 105 and with flash.

There's nothing like it for that specific purpose.

On top, (flash syncable) handheld photography with all vintage adaptable MF lenses without ES readout artifacts on digital backs. Also unique.

The FPS is actually a very comfortable camera - it feels great in hand with a back and a lens attached to it. The fact that you don't have to worry about ES artifacts, ie skew, is THE critical point which makes it useable as a handheld camera in the first place.

 

[buildbot]

If you do want an FPS you can sometimes find heavily used ones surprisingly cheap - saw a pair for something like ~$1k each a few years ago IIRC.

I'd be happy to pay like 2k for one wow.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

They are rare and cost sth like 11k now - highly doubt you'll find one for cheap like that, even used. It is very solidly built and the macro stuff is becoming a bit more popular as mentioned above.

You don't pay 11k for sth that feels like a 1k product. Its substantial in hand and out of the best aluminium. It transforms your digital back into a new handheld camera. I really liked the feel and build quality when I tried it once at Alpa.

 

[f8orbust]

Personally, I don't see much point paying $$$ for the Alpa-branded Novoflex motorised macro stage when you can simply buy the Novoflex version. Add the CastbalPRO bellows + Balpro extension + Fuji GFX 100MP body + a dedicated macro lens (my preference is a S/K 120 for the slightly longer working distance) and you have - IMHO - a better system (less bulk, fewer cables, higher resolution) than the alternative of FPS + DB. Of course, if money's no object, then knock yourself out. But if you're in business and you value your bottom line, you can build a better system than the 'turnkey' Alpa offering for significantly less. e.g. at the time of writing the Alpa branded Novoflex system retails at $25K + DB. So if you add a used IQ4-150 in the mix that's at least $47k staring you in the face. The comparable system I've detailed above can be put together for about $11k (including the camera), or less if you can buy used (good luck finding the Alpa-branded setup on the used market).

BTW, if you do want to find high end stuff for cents on the dollar, don't look on GetDPI, eBay, in camera stores etc. - you need to be looking at auction houses when they're selling stuff that's come out of government offices, schools, universities etc.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

But you can't use flash with the above setup, or can you? The whole style of Peter Andrew's photography is based on flash synced, stacked macro shots.

The point is that the IQ4 is EOL and soon you'll have the IQ5 and then the comparison is more in line in terms of cash vs. output, at least resolution and expectedly DR wise.

I've spoken to a few people who tested the Fuji vs IQ4 and IQ (especially for neg scanning) and the feedback was always that the colour and DR and ultimately IQ were significantly better with the IQ4. Most just can't afford the IQ4 so settle with the Fuji. YMMV, of course.

Also, on the Novoflex stuff - the blue branding looks awful and the black and gold design in turn looks awesome. Ofc its luxurious to spend more to get the branded version, but some people do just that. I'd assume the publicly auctioned off gear is most likely always a bit battered by communal use - ie cosmetically not in great shape or really heavily used.

Which auction houses do you recommend?

And the FPS is just one element of the macro setup - ie the shutter piece useful for flash sync with the 105; it must be seen as a separate piece of kit though which can open up other lenses to be used with a digital back incl. flash sync for handheld photography. You can also skip it and buy the same Novoflex gear you mention above w/o FPS and an IQ3 100. FPS literally is THE element that gets you flash sync.

The Alpa system has a vast array of adapters so the FPS is lastly also just a creative tool to play around with different lenses handheld on an IQ4.

 

[cunim]

Of course, we can do macro with the IQ4 electronic shutter (Electronic Shutter Flash Sync on Phase One IQ3 100 & IQ4 Series Digital Backs). I know @Paul Spinnler refers specifically to flash sync at 1/125, but just want to remind those shooting static subjects that there is a (free) alternative to the FPS, - I used to do this routinely with strobes, but have shifted to continuous for most of my work. That's another alternative, by the way. You can buy a lot of lights for the price of an FPS.

 

[f8orbust]

But you can't use flash with the above setup, or can you? The whole style of Peter Andrew's photography is based on flash synced, stacked macro shots.

Not with the electronic shutter (as per pretty much any device with an ES out there), otherwise not a problem. The Novoflex/Alpa simply connects via the plain old vanilla 2.5mm remote socket, so firing the camera is no different than firing it by hand with a remote. Which means if you're using flash, the flash fires. You can set a delay on the Novoflex/Alpa between shots to allow for any shake to subside, flash to recycle etc. You also have the option of pixel shift with flash and stacking (via the Novoflex/Alpa rig) for insanely detailed stacked macro images, if that's your thing.

Also, on the Novoflex stuff - the blue branding looks awful and the black and gold design in turn looks awesome...

As much as I like Alpa's stuff, I'm not a fan of their rebranding of Linhof and Novoflex gear. Besides, I like the colour scheme used by Novoflex. But, if Alpa's black and gold paint is what floats your boat, and you can afford it, go for it. And yes, those two FPS' I saw for something like $1k each a few years ago both looked like they'd been retrieved from a bombed-out building. But I was told they both functioned perfectly, and since Alpa stuff is built to last, I could believe it.

Which auction houses do you recommend?

Smaller, provincial ones are where you'll nab the bargains. Dealers want stuff they can turn around quickly - Canon, Nikon etc. - they're typically not interested in niche stuff (ever seen Alpa gear on MPB? Nope, me neither). So, when it appears, there's a very good chance you can buy it. Organisations like schools, universities, govt. departments, local councils just want the stuff gone, so they never have reserve prices, no matter what it is. Foba studio stands tend to appear quite often, probably due to their size and weight; typically they'll sell for a couple of hundred quid (plus commission and VAT). But, you need to put in the leg work to snag the bargains. I like going to auctions anyway for stuff besides photography, so for me it's not a hassle.

And the FPS is just one element of the macro setup...

Alpa offers a great system, no two ways about it. But there are times when there are better solutions to the one(s) offered by Alpa if you're prepared to step outside of the Alpa ecosystem. If you want to use a DB with the Novoflex/Alpa rig you either have to use a lens in an electronic (physical) shutter and a bit of jerry-rigging, or the FPS. But my point was, and still is, that in the specific setup of MF, flash sync'd, stacked macrophotography, the S/K 120M (or R/S 120M) + Novoflex + Fuji is - IMHO - the way to go (I also use an STC to act as an extra spacer and/or for X or Y movement).

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Thanks for the detailed reply. I agree there are many different systems and approaches. Peter happens to have found an efficient system especially using the 105 which is stunning for macro jointly with flash. He clearly is paying for two reasons: a) to use the 105 which is arguably the best performing macro out there b) to use the IQ4 150. Essentially that's a premium for the highest end available as there are other alternative approaches, like using the Fuji with other optics as you mention above.

So when triggering the Fuji with a sync cable and an adapted lens you get focal plane shutter and flash sync, do I understand you correctly?

BTW - another alternative is actually to mount an x shutter onto a 120 Asph or Macro Sironar and then use the novoflex bellows. The x shutter also allows you to remote trigger the system easily via C1; depending on the manufacturer the mounting should cost between 3.5 and 4.5k.

X shutter mounted 120 Rodie Sironar Macro would allow flash sync up to 1/1000 and you could use it directly on a blue novoflex with an IQ4 at the end.

I always thought a 120 Asph would be amazing in x shutter …

@f8orbust: I amended my response with another question to you

 

[Phase V]

I could be wrong but watching the videos on youtube, i got the understanding that
Peter Andrew Lusztyk neither owns a IQ4 nor the Alpa stuff.
They gave him their demo kit for playing around with it because they knew
they would get some fancy youtube videos for free.

And then there is another bloke out there, Andrei Duman, who got the kit for free:
(https://www.facebook.com/bheventspa...an-and-sandisk-professional/1137772130311110/)

My guess is, he was trying to copy the excellent work of Levon Biss (levonbiss.com) miserably failed and
than he started to lament that it´s so hard to do because his crap mac takes a whole day to write out 800 tiffs
from C1, Zerene stacker took another day on his crap mac and stuff like that, just ridiculous.

Here is what i found out after setting up my system the last few months:

The Novoflex stuff is excellent although expensive, but to buy the Alpa branded
version is just totally nonsense.

I was trying to found out what´s so special about the different incarnations of the 105 Macro
Rodenstock so i reached out too them in Feldkirchen, Munich and got the info from the engineer
who is responsible for building this thing, that there is ZERO difference between the Alpa, Sinar,
Cambo and the Rodenstock version!
The only difference is that the industrial -Linos- version of this lens is just calibrated to match
the 12 or 16k sensor in the industrial application this lens is thenbuilt in while
the photo version gets a rotationally symmetrical calibration and a Azimuth point.

And to dispel another myth, no, the 105 is not the best macro lens out there (physically impossible
because at 5,6 you always run into diffraction at a certain magnification) there is something better
but that´s another story.

 

[P. Chong]

If you are interested, I have tried the Alpa system, and wrote this:

TGIFridays: Using the Alpa Focus Stacking System for watch photography -

Last week, we looked at what's in my bag when I had the Alpa Focus Stacking System on loan. Today, I discuss how the system is used.

deployant.com

 

[Paul Spinnler]

I could be wrong but watching the videos on youtube, i got the understanding that
Peter Andrew Lusztyk neither owns a IQ4 nor the Alpa stuff.
They gave him their demo kit for playing around with it because they knew
they would get some fancy youtube videos for free.

And then there is another bloke out there, Andrei Duman, who got the kit for free:
(https://www.facebook.com/bheventspa...an-and-sandisk-professional/1137772130311110/)

My guess is, he was trying to copy the excellent work of Levon Biss (levonbiss.com) miserably failed and
than he started to lament that it´s so hard to do because his crap mac takes a whole day to write out 800 tiffs
from C1, Zerene stacker took another day on his crap mac and stuff like that, just ridiculous.

Here is what i found out after setting up my system the last few months:

The Novoflex stuff is excellent although expensive, but to buy the Alpa branded
version is just totally nonsense.

I was trying to found out what´s so special about the different incarnations of the 105 Macro
Rodenstock so i reached out too them in Feldkirchen, Munich and got the info from the engineer
who is responsible for building this thing, that there is ZERO difference between the Alpa, Sinar,
Cambo and the Rodenstock version!
The only difference is that the industrial -Linos- version of this lens is just calibrated to match
the 12 or 16k sensor in the industrial application this lens is thenbuilt in while
the photo version gets a rotationally symmetrical calibration and a Azimuth point.

And to dispel another myth, no, the 105 is not the best macro lens out there (physically impossible
because at 5,6 you always run into diffraction at a certain magnification) there is something better
but that´s another story.

1) He bought it in the meantime, you should update your info; he is giving a course with B3K soon, look on their website and is regularly shooting the system now. He even got an Alpa sweater he proudly wears on instagram;

2) No one said that the 105 is different in between brands; it is based on the industrial lens, and I also spoke to Linos about it before buying mine; on industrial systems you can rotate mounts to calibrate the lens vs the sensor whereas on photo systems the mount is always fixed so there is another calibration and control step at the factory for the photo versions. There is no news around the fact that each branded lens comes at its price point; I personally like their branded version look wise the most.

3) Best lens - that’s an imprecise statement as there are factors to consider in practice which make a lens best for a specific purpose. I exchanged emails with Robert O Toole before his passing asking him whether there is a better lens than the 105 HR for neg scanning and the only one which came to his mind were the printing Nikkors but just by way of diffraction. But the reality is NO ONE scans film at 2.8 or shoots macro objects at very wide apertures; common is f8; in an industrial setting or potentially a Flextight kind of scenario with a very fixed focusing plane you might get away with sth below f8 but in practice I have not seen any big quality loss between f8-f11 and the trade off for a tiny, tiny bit more DoF is absolutely necessary for film scanning and when stacking also to avoid having gaps between stacks and still stay sane between the amount of shots necessary. Its already hard enough to get a plane sharp at magnifications below above 1x and so anything below f5.6 is not practical.

I suppose you were referring to printing nikkors or another f4 or f2.8 macro. The one in the Flextight was F8 btw although the focusing plane was fixed.

@SCHWARZZEIT does have a secret industrial lens he uses but also his own mechanical setup; for at home stable copy stand I would say the 105 is the best available standard solution.

I wonder which one he has. Robert’s choice was the Nikkor if one can handle the DoF.

 

[f8orbust]

So when triggering the Fuji with a sync cable and an adapted lens you get focal plane shutter and flash sync, do I understand you correctly?

Just imagine replacing the the FPS + DB used by Peter in his post above (about watches) with the Fuji and the setup works exactly the same. In terms of functionality FPS + DB = Fuji (or H/B or Canon or Nikon etc.). In my case that would be macro lens set in the bellows, aperture stopped down to whatever's the best for the reproduction scale you're working at, Fuji attached to the Novoflex via the remote release socket, shutter speed set at 1/125 or slower, remote flash trigger in hot shoe. Novoflex starts > signals Fuji > fires shutter + flash > pauses > Novoflex moves camera forward > whole thing starts again. The beauty of a system like this of course (for macrophotography specifically) is that the lens to subject distance remains fixed.

When I mentioned about using an electronic shutter on the lens itself, which as you say means you could get flash sync at all speeds, I was thinking of the S/K or Rollei electronic shutters which you see kicking around. These could probably be jerry-rigged to work with the Novoflex/Alpa, and then you could attach the DB (if that's what you wanted to use) directly to the rear bellows (Novoflex has a P1 adapter to do just this). The only issue I can imagine is making sure that everything works in sync; probably more hassle than it's worth to be honest, but YMMV. I don't know anything about P1's X shutter, but if it is physically connected to the DB (which I think it is) then it should work, as the DB itself can be triggered by the Novoflex. That said, can you buy a bare macro lens in an X-shutter ? No idea. You could of course then send the images directly into C1 via USB. Actually triggering the X-shutter from within C1 on its own wouldn't be enough as the motorised stage has to move after it's told the camera to fire. i.e. the Novoflex has to be the thing initiating each image capture in the sequence/stack. Ultimately, the Novoflex/Alpa is actually a dumb device. It doesn't get any feedback from the camera to know that the exposure has been made, it just assumes it has. Basically it's just a fire > move > wait > fire > repeat x number of times device. But it does what it's intended to do quite superbly, currently better than any other motorised stage out there (IMHO). The control unit in particular is really well thought out. The only thing I don't like about the Novoflex/Alpa motorised stage is the way that batteries work with it, but it's a minor niggle as most of the time it's just plugged into the wall socket. Alan Walls' YouTube channel has a great couple of videos looking at the stage; I'd advise anyone contemplating buying one to have a watch. Here's the link.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

If you are interested, I have tried the Alpa system, and wrote this:

TGIFridays: Using the Alpa Focus Stacking System for watch photography -

Last week, we looked at what's in my bag when I had the Alpa Focus Stacking System on loan. Today, I discuss how the system is used.

deployant.com

Respectfully, for hobbyists this setup is not the right tool and I feel it is a bit misplaced in your blog which is a hobbyist resource (reminds me of Petapixel getting the XC, no shade intended!); the Novoflex Macro system (Alpa is just the branded version of it) is not complicated for someone who works with macro every day, all day long. In a way it was a lack of judgement to send the demo across as I cannot see a lot of (senior) watch collectors being a target audience for a Ethernet programmable macro setup. The Macro kit is the one thing within the Alpa verse which is really not for the enthusiast, but really for the working macro pro. Like people shooting really, really small objects on the daily and have a taker for these images. Can be fine art, working product pros and institutions (e.g. documenting insects).

For 95% of macro users a kit Macro lens is most likely enough; by that standard, if you are a rich amateur, you can just take a P1 120 blue ring or any other system macro if you are not on Phase.

But if you are at the top of your game working in fine art or for big brands with constant macro output it is really not an issue to setup a corner of your studio and have a Novoflex macro setup ready to take a digital back at the end. You can even program and control the FPS via web protocol over Ethernet - clearly too much for a hobby photographer but not a problem for a pro setting it up after a week of going through the detailed FPS command list.

The Alpa macro system is for specialists and the best solution available for what it does IMHO, especially if you need a lot of stacking and flash sync.

For most folks shooting a random flower, post stamp or watch as a hobby it clearly doesn’t make sense just from a refinancing and practicality point of view.

For most people the recommendation really is the excellent Schneider blue ring 120. It even has focus stacking built in via the XF. It’s only when you get into movements, stitching, super low mags, etc where the Novoflex kit becomes crucial as most basic macro lenses top out a certain magnifications.

The Alpa kit can go way beyond 1:1 which is insane. That’s where you really get mileage out of it. For most it’s better to get a kit lens.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Just imagine replacing the the FPS + DB used by Peter in his post above (about watches) with the Fuji and the setup works exactly the same. In terms of functionality FPS + DB = Fuji (or H/B or Canon or Nikon etc.). In my case that would be macro lens set in the bellows, aperture stopped down to whatever's the best for the reproduction scale you're working at, Fuji attached to the Novoflex via the remote release socket, shutter speed set at 1/125 or slower, remote flash trigger in hot shoe. Novoflex starts > signals Fuji > fires shutter + flash > pauses > Novoflex moves camera forward > whole thing starts again. The beauty of a system like this of course (for macrophotography specifically) is that the lens to subject distance remains fixed.

When I mentioned about using an electronic shutter on the lens itself, which as you say means you could get flash sync at all speeds, I was thinking of the S/K or Rollei electronic shutters which you see kicking around. These could probably be jerry-rigged to work with the Novoflex/Alpa, and then you could attach the DB (if that's what you wanted to use) directly to the rear bellows (Novoflex has a P1 adapter to do just this). The only issue I can imagine is making sure that everything works in sync; probably more hassle than it's worth to be honest, but YMMV. I don't know anything about P1's X shutter, but if it is physically connected to the DB (which I think it is) then it should work, as the DB itself can be triggered by the Novoflex. That said, can you buy a bare macro lens in an X-shutter ? No idea. You could of course then send the images directly into C1 via USB. Actually triggering the X-shutter from within C1 on its own wouldn't be enough as the motorised stage has to move after it's told the camera to fire. i.e. the Novoflex has to be the thing initiating each image capture in the sequence/stack. Ultimately, the Novoflex/Alpa is actually a dumb device. It doesn't get any feedback from the camera to know that the exposure has been made, it just assumes it has. Basically it's just a fire > move > wait > fire > repeat x number of times device. But it does what it's intended to do quite superbly, currently better than any other motorised stage out there (IMHO). The control unit in particular is really well thought out. The only thing I don't like about the Novoflex/Alpa motorised stage is the way that batteries work with it, but it's a minor niggle as most of the time it's just plugged into the wall socket. Alan Walls' YouTube channel has a great couple of videos looking at the stage; I'd advise anyone contemplating buying one to have a watch. Here's the link.

Although the 120 Rodenstock is not available anymore it is compatible with the x shutter as well as the 120 Asph; you can send both to get them mounted. This to me is the best alternative compared to 105 plus FPS if you don’t want the FPS for flash sync.The x shutter is attached to the back and the back you control via C1 either via wifi or cable. You can still trigger then the IQ4 via ethernet.

Mounting is like 4K ish. It has the added benefit that you can do cool stuff with x shutter lenses like for example exposure bracketing in photo applications when you are not doing macro …

This is to be disaggregated from the motorized stage bit which, as you say is a “dumb”’but highly effective system the way Novoflex designed it. It’s very convenient to have this system rip through a hundred slices of an ant head.

I personally only use the macro for neg scanning so the stacking is not important and I need optimal quality at f8 at magnifications beyond 1:1. The FL design of the 105 together with its performance across the field make it the best lens for that specific purpose for me.

I need great performance in one to two shot scenarios across 54x40mm at mags beyond 1:1 either one shot 35mm or double shot 6x7. For neg scanning you don’t need flash and stacking - you can just get the 105 and a Novoflex bellows …

I am curious though if you have custom machined system with tighter scan stage tolerances which industrial lens would be the best besides the printing nikkors …

 

[cunim]

The Macro kit is the one thing within the Alpa verse which is really not for the enthusiast, but really for the working macro pro. Like people shooting really, really small objects on the daily and have a taker for these images. Can be fine art, working product pros and institutions (e.g. documenting insects).

Wouldn't your real pro want something that does both stacks and movements? Sure, stacking is the way to get hyper sharp macro, but that's only one aspect of creating a top-quality commercial image. In my opinion, a high end system needs to offer both stacking and nonparallel movements. It's about flexibility + quality.

I raise this point because, for about three years, I have been asking AS to develop a finer focus drive for the rear standard on the monolith. Motors and automation are nice, but I could live with a precise manual drive on the rear standard. For AS, who already have the full range of view camera movements, the mechanical aspects of improving the focus drive are not too difficult. They could even integrate the same Novoflex gear that Alpa uses. Sadly, I don't think AS in its current form has the capability to innovate.

I left Alpa (what a great company) because they offered me nothing that worked in studio, and I wanted to transfer lenses between pancake and view cameras as the task requires. AS gives me that, but the stacking is weak. If Alpa made a view camera I would certainly return to their products. The FPS is just not enough.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

You can actually with the Novoflex / Alpa bellows mount any copal lens you want ... so it is flexible ...

Adapter Copal 0-Objektive an Balgengeräte der BALPRO-Serie (plan)

hochpräzise gefertigter Adapter

www.novoflex.de

And then you can add this at the back of the Balpro together with the balpro Alpa adapter:

450.010.319 ALPA Intermediate 17 mm adapter | ALPA Product Page

All the details and images of the ALPA product 450.010.319 ALPA Intermediate 17 mm adapter; article no 450.010.319; Jul 01, 2022

de.alpa.swiss

Then you can attach an STC at the back of the balpro or the TS balpro. That gives you a very compact bellows camera in the Alpaverse where mounting any copal lens costs 70 bucks ...

Only downside is that for tilt you need to use a vertical L-bracket setup but you have: shift in all directions and swing.

Also you can mount any Alpa 12 system camera in between the FPS and the balpro effectively giving you:

105 with flash sync plus movements within the IC of either the 105 or if you don't need the 105 and FPS say an x shutter mounted 120 macro sironar.

Combo would be Alpa Max, balpro via in betweenadapters and at the front the Novoflex bellows systems with any macro lens you want. If you want tilt you get TS balpro and L bracket.

I think what's cool is the balpro non TS with an STC in the field and copal mounted lenses in the balpro mount. The very compact bellows system makes it a joy to transport and deploy. Max if you need more movements.

I think most people have no clue what is all possible with the Novoflex Alpa combo ... including mounting any copal lens AND also obscure lenses via the Novoflex adapter set.

Besides copal 0, you can also adapte V-groove lenses, ie industrial lenses with corresponding compatible mounts ...

 

[Paul Spinnler]

There is something better
but that´s another story.

I am curious - I've tried to find a large IC machine vision lens which goes beyone 200lp/mm; I remember once having a spec sheet open with higher numbers, but forgot which manufacturer and series.

Robert mentioned printing nikkors, but there may be other options. Problem is the IC of min. 70mm for an IQ4.

I know there are higher res smaller IC lenses - but large IC?

Would appreciate a pointer if you found another lens?