Astrophotography - 101: How to get started.

[Greg Haag]

Greg, the one issue you might eventually run into with the FSQ106EDX is the focuser is not the best design, do you know which version EDX you have? Takahashi got rid of the "captains wheel" which helped but at the end of the day the focuser is not on par with the optics. Although I've just lived with it a new focuser is in the future - this gets to the money pit part

A few choices are the Starlight Instruments replacement focuser, the Primaluce Labs 4" ESATTO or the Night Crawler - the latter is a beast and a work of engineering art - however it isn't without quirks - I'll probably go with the ESATTO and their upcoming rotator. Keeping the imaging train light (ZWO) will help the focuser a lot. I had lots of issues with the FLI16800 and its gigantic ATLAS micro-focuser and filter wheel. The stock focuser simply can't support medium format.

You also should get familiar with Precise Parts - you will need custom adaptors machined to get everything to work, especially with the reducer where the back focus is critical, like less than 1mm critical.

Glenn

Glenn, thank you again for all your help! It is going to take a little time to work my way thru it but I wanted to answer you question on which model 106, mine is a TAKAHASHI FSQ-106EDX4.
Thank you!
Greg

 

[Greg Haag]

A couple more thoughts.

Regarding color vs mono - the type of targets you’re after may lead you to one or the other. Galaxies and planets are best in RGB color so a color camera works well, but the FSQ106 is too short of a focal length for planets or most galaxies. Mono and narrowband imaging with Ha, Oiii and Sii filters is really the best approach for most nebulae since they tend to be loaded with ionized gas that glows like a neon light. Also it’s a lot easier to use narrowband imaging where light pollution is an issue.

I’ve never had problems with the stock FSQ106 focuser but it bery sensitive to temperature and need pretty constant refocusing. I’d highly recommend an autofocuser. Imhave the ZWO EAF along with the bracket for the FSQ and it was easy to mount. You then set parameters for when to refocus such as with every filter change or every so often. If you’re going to try the ASI Air then you’ll want to stay in the ZWO / ASI universe of add-ons.

Craig, thank you so much “again”! You and Glenn have been so helpful! I had no idea how complex astrophotography is.
Thanks again,
Greg

 

[glennedens]

Greg, you are so welcome. Do you know when your FSQ106 was manufactured - there have been a few versions that have been called EDX4? The US distributer (TNR) over the years have combined and updated versions on their own, so it can be hit and miss what one really has. Art and Fred were incredibly helpful at TNR, they've both retired. TNR has always been very helpful.

For example I bought a EDXII, however it was really a EDX that had been reconfigured into an EDXII, well almost, it took a trip with the scope to TNR to figure out what I really had - and it was "oh, you got that scope" At least I got a discount on adaptors.

We have an imaging group locally that has eight FSQ106s of varying age and configurations between us. Craig, you are lucky you've not had any FSQ106 focusing issues - we've all had varying degrees of fiddling

The Takahashi system charts can be very helpful, although some folks find them confusing - as long as you match the chart for your exact configuration it will be pretty clear.

For the X1Dii and 907x I followed the same route as Craig did, going to the Pentax 67 adaptor route. I wound up having to shim the Pentax mount adaptor to get good focus and alignment of the sensor plane.

I see in the other thread Cloudy Nights and Precise Parts were already mentioned. Kind regards, Glenn

 

[Greg Haag]

Greg, you are so welcome. Do you know when your FSQ106 was manufactured - there have been a few versions that have been called EDX4? The US distributer (TNR) over the years have combined and updated versions on their own, so it can be hit and miss what one really has. Art and Fred were incredibly helpful at TNR, they've both retired. TNR has always been very helpful.

For example I bought a EDXII, however it was really a EDX that had been reconfigured into an EDXII, well almost, it took a trip with the scope to TNR to figure out what I really had - and it was "oh, you got that scope" At least I got a discount on adaptors.

We have an imaging group locally that has eight FSQ106s of varying age and configurations between us. Craig, you are lucky you've not had any FSQ106 focusing issues - we've all had varying degrees of fiddling

The Takahashi system charts can be very helpful, although some folks find them confusing - as long as you match the chart for your exact configuration it will be pretty clear.

For the X1Dii and 907x I followed the same route as Craig did, going to the Pentax 67 adaptor route. I wound up having to shim the Pentax mount adaptor to get good focus and alignment of the sensor plane.

I see in the other thread Cloudy Nights and Precise Parts were already mentioned. Kind regards, Glenn

Glenn,
The scope is supposed to be here Friday and none of my paperwork seems to have a manufacturning date on it. I will post that once I know.
Thanks again,
Greg

 

[Greg Haag]

Glenn,
Where do I get on the list for the Mach2?

Greg,

The FSQ106EDX is a great telescope, I have one! Native it covers 88mm image circle and with the reducer its 44mm. The "best" results will come from Monochrome (either narrowband or broadband depending on how dark a site you can get to for broadband). I use the ZWO ASI6200mm (full-frame mono) with the FSQ106, I've also used my Hasselblad X1Dii.

The filter dilemma gets a bit more complex at fast focal ratios, F3.5 is on the borderline, you need a different filter bandpass for fast focal ratios, regular filters probably will work at F3.5, however some folks say the cutoff is F4 before you need to change to the "fast filters" - this is for Narrowband, the broadband don't really matter. And of course if you go full-frame you need minimum 50.4mm unmounted filters (mounted 2" will vignette) and some folks go all the way to 50mm square, although ZWO doesn't make a 50mm square filter holder yet, I use the ZWO 7 position with 50.4mm unmounted round filters. The 645RD reducer is a beast so unless you really need medium format I'd stick with one of the other two versions. I had use of a FLI16800 medium format camera, it was huge, heavy and expensive - and the results weren't noticeably better (plus the pixel size is not really ideal for the FSQ106 - that scope wants small pixels).

The issue with Monochrome is more work in post processing, however its not that bad, compared to the hurdle to get in at all . OSC is a fast way to start, however I wouldn't spend money on a full-frame OSC, you'll likely never be able to sell it, whereas a Micro4/3 or APS-C OSC has resale value and uses smaller filters.

So an ASI294 (color) is a good choice to start, if you get bitten by the bug they hold their value if you buy used you can probably get most of what you paid back when you upgrade to Mono.

Mount wise my 2 cents: Mach1 or MX/MyT - I now have the Mach2 but had a Mach1 for years. I am a bigger fan of Astro-Physics mounts versus Software Bisque (only because I don't like using The Sky X, although it can be a great all-in-one software package if you get all the different modules - so its very personal just like LR vs C1, etc.). My 5 cents = Mach1 from your list

I wouldn't recommend the iOptron path, they make nice mounts, however there seems to be an issue (QA or not sure what) that many local folks (NM) have had a lot of trouble getting one to fully function. The Skywatcher is like "old reliable" and the CGX-L is fine, however for the money I'd go Mach1 (and get on the list for Mach2 or 1100, no up front commitment and you can decide when your name comes up). You can also get an Astro-Physics AP900 used, and that is a fantastic capable mount, often the AP900 can be had for less than the Mach1). The AP900 breaks down into two very manageable pieces.

Hope this helps?

Glenn, where would you suggest getting on the list for the Mach2?

 

[glennedens]

Greg, On the Astro-Physics website:

Mach2GTO German Equatorial Mount (MACH2GTO)

Astro-Physics has been producing state-of-the-art telescopes, mountings and accessories since 1975.

www.astro-physics.com

Enter your email and click "Notify Me" and you'll be on the list. It can be a wait, like a year or two. Some dealers pre-buy units and might get one to you faster, it all depends on production run scheduling. And I see the price has gone up a lot since I got mine..

The wait for one of their telescopes can be measured in decades

So a lot of folks buy a Mach1 or AP900 used and then sell it when their name comes up, I've been able to sell every used AP mount I've bought for what I paid for it, and that's over a 25 year period with multiple AP mounts.

Astro-Physics has a great control program called APCC, however you do not have to use that, you can use either an ASCOM or an INDI driver with whatever software you plan on using. The ASIAir supports the AP mounts directly if you go that direction to start (highly recommended as a starting point)

Glenn

 

[glennedens]

Greg from a dealer I'd suggest talking to Tolga at Tolga Astro or Simon at Woodland Hills Telescope. There may be other dealers that pre-buy units, not sure if Herb York is still active at Anacortes Telescope & Wild Bird. I believe the Paramounts from Software Bisque have a shorter lead time and they are good mounts. You used to have to use The Sky to control it, not sure if that is still true? I've had a SB mount and personally I like the AP mounts much better - although like cameras it is a very personal-based thing

 

[Greg Haag]

Greg from a dealer I'd suggest talking to Tolga at Tolga Astro or Simon at Woodland Hills Telescope. There may be other dealers that pre-buy units, not sure if Herb York is still active at Anacortes Telescope & Wild Bird. I believe the Paramounts from Software Bisque have a shorter lead time and they are good mounts. You used to have to use The Sky to control it, not sure if that is still true? I've had a SB mount and personally I like the AP mounts much better - although like cameras it is a very personal-based thing

Thank you Glenn! I had no idea the availablity on the various components could be so limited and the time frames could be so long! I will get on the list and look into the other dealers you mentioned. There is a site called Astromart, and this is a list of some possibilities.

Vixen AXD Equatorial mount (New Never Used)

Vixen AXD Equatorial mount (New Never Used) | Astromart

Astromart.com is the leading portal for astronomy news, classified ads and telescope reviews. Place your astronomy ads, read the latest news articles and check out the current reviews of newest telescopes and equipment.

astromart.com

TAKAHASHI EM400 MOUNT + BERLEBACH PLANET TRIPOD

PRICE DROP & OPTION: TAKAHASHI EM400 MOUNT +/- BERLEBACH PLANET TRIPOD | Astromart

Astromart.com is the leading portal for astronomy news, classified ads and telescope reviews. Place your astronomy ads, read the latest news articles and check out the current reviews of newest telescopes and equipment.

astromart.com

Astro Physics 1200 GTO German Equatorial Mount

Astro Physics 1200 GTO German Equatorial Mount | Astromart

Astromart.com is the leading portal for astronomy news, classified ads and telescope reviews. Place your astronomy ads, read the latest news articles and check out the current reviews of newest telescopes and equipment.

astromart.com

Thanks again!
Greg

 

[Craig Stocks]

Greg from a dealer I'd suggest talking to Tolga at Tolga Astro or Simon at Woodland Hills Telescope. There may be other dealers that pre-buy units, not sure if Herb York is still active at Anacortes Telescope & Wild Bird. I believe the Paramounts from Software Bisque have a shorter lead time and they are good mounts. You used to have to use The Sky to control it, not sure if that is still true? I've had a SB mount and personally I like the AP mounts much better - although like cameras it is a very personal-based thing

If I remember correctly SB and AP have different philosophies. SB mounts are intended to be used with a computer and so don't have a lot of smarts built into them but instead rely on software like The Sky X on the computer side. AP on the other hand includes more intelligence in the mount. I'm sure there is a long list of pros and cons of the two approaches.

 

[glennedens]

Craig, great summary!

If I remember correctly SB and AP have different philosophies. SB mounts are intended to be used with a computer and so don't have a lot of smarts built into them but instead rely on software like The Sky X on the computer side. AP on the other hand includes more intelligence in the mount. I'm sure there is a long list of pros and cons of the two approaches.

 

[glennedens]

Greg, in addition to AstroMart also check out CloudyNights, both great for used gear.

Will you be using the mount in portable, going to a dark site and back or just at home?

My thoughts - for many years I was a firmware beta tester for Vixen, they make good solid mounts and I still have a SXD2. The AXD would not be my first choice - the Starbook Ten is great fun, however the only way to interface to the mount is via Ethernet, which can easily be done, but can be a PITA. Except for the interfacing the AXD is well built and tracks well.

The EM400 would not be on my list, they are works of engineering art, however it is a very old design and again the computer interfacing can range from fiddly to frustration - it is a great mount for visual, as I remember it runs on 24 volts, again possible but can be a PITA.

The AP1200 is a huge heavy mount and way overkill, unless you see moving from the FSQ106 to something much bigger in the future? It does separate into two units (RA and DEC) so it can be hefted from car to site, or garage to pad.

Of these choices it would be between the AP1200 and the AXD, but I'd keep looking.

I've always tried to have as few wires going from the telescope/camera/computer so I like mounts that can be controlled with Wi-Fi or through the mount wiring or existing USB and power ports. I'll take a look on Astromart and CloudyNights and let you know if I see anything that I'd whole heartily recommend

Glenn

 

[Greg Haag]

Greg, in addition to AstroMart also check out CloudyNights, both great for used gear.

Will you be using the mount in portable, going to a dark site and back or just at home?

My thoughts - for many years I was a firmware beta tester for Vixen, they make good solid mounts and I still have a SXD2. The AXD would not be my first choice - the Starbook Ten is great fun, however the only way to interface to the mount is via Ethernet, which can easily be done, but can be a PITA. Except for the interfacing the AXD is well built and tracks well.

The EM400 would not be on my list, they are works of engineering art, however it is a very old design and again the computer interfacing can range from fiddly to frustration - it is a great mount for visual, as I remember it runs on 24 volts, again possible but can be a PITA.

The AP1200 is a huge heavy mount and way overkill, unless you see moving from the FSQ106 to something much bigger in the future? It does separate into two units (RA and DEC) so it can be hefted from car to site, or garage to pad.

Of these choices it would be between the AP1200 and the AXD, but I'd keep looking.

I've always tried to have as few wires going from the telescope/camera/computer so I like mounts that can be controlled with Wi-Fi or through the mount wiring or existing USB and power ports. I'll take a look on Astromart and CloudyNights and let you know if I see anything that I'd whole heartily recommend

Glenn

Glenn,
I do anticipate using the mount mostly from home, if possible, I think I am about a Bortle 5/6. I have a place on the North Fork River that is probably a Bortle 4/5 and there is an IDSP (Buffalo National River) about 3 1/2 hours from home or 1 1/2 from the river that I would like to go to some.
Thank you so much for your feedback on those mounts, I would really like to wait on a Mach 1 or Mach 2.
Thank you again!
Greg

 

[glennedens]

Greg, woah, I've never seen such scarcity on both AstroMart and CloudyNights - the wanted ads outnumber the for sales by about 10:1, yikes. I just looked up a few mounts that I'd recommend at dealers and nothing is in stock, a quick check with SB says they are 6+ months out or more. I guess the parts shortages have hit the little astronomy industry.

I still have a mint condition AP900 that I could be convinced to part with, actually 'she who must be obeyed' is more convinced I would need to go inventory everything. It was replaced by an AP1100 and later when my name came up on the Mach2 list, I had sold the AP1100 but never got around to selling the AP900 - I was thinking about putting it at a remote site, however the sky here is generally good (21.75-21.85) and the expense was vetoed . PM me if you might be interested, gosh I hope the post doesn't sound to self serving . Kind regards, Glenn

 

[Jacob Buchowski]

Although I don’t do astrophotography, I noticed that B&H just had a podcast on the topic for those interested: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explor...-dr-robert-gendler-the-bh-photography-podcast.

 

[dave.gt]

Interesting photo here, but read the article. Something is wrong here.

https://flic.kr/p/2mWz1qa

 

[MGrayson]

Interesting photo here, but read the article. Something is wrong here.

https://flic.kr/p/2mWz1qa

Hi Dave,
Nice picture and interesting article. But yeah, the key word is “model”. There is no model that does a good job at all distances. From galaxies to clusters to superclusters to CMB - nothing matches up without a LOT of parameter fine-tuning. In short, we don’t know what we’re lookin’ at.
Can’t wait for the Webb to come online!
Matt

 

[Shashin]

Although I don’t do astrophotography, I noticed that B&H just had a podcast on the topic for those interested: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explor...-dr-robert-gendler-the-bh-photography-podcast.

An amazing photographer. I was fortunate enough to have printed one of his images on a 42" printer for a museum exhibition. Web images do not do his work justice.