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Best 1:1 macro options for digital Blads?

bags27

Well-known member
I'm thinking of using my 907x 50c for scanning 120 film (current kit is a Panasonic X1R with a Sigma 70mm macro) Considering my V 120 f/4 macro with extension tubes or getting the V Bellows and the 135, but I don't think it'll be super sharp. Probably best is the outstanding HC 120 Macro II, but with an adaptor, it's ~2k. Because I don't think I'd use it for anything else, that's more than I want to spend. I'm currently experimenting with the very fine Nikon 105 f/2.8 macro and the Nikon to XCD adaptor and the few shots I've taken look pretty good. I've also tried my brilliant Zeiss zf.2 100 f/2 macro. I could add extensions to bring it to 1:1, but even at 1:2 there is vignetting and serious purple fringing with the Blad.

Wondering if anyone has other inexpensive (or less expensive that the HC solution) ideas. Of course, unless I use the XCD macro (very expensive, 1:2, and not highly regarded), I lose autofocusing, but I'm okay with that for macro work.
 

mristuccia

Well-known member
With my CFV-50c (same sensor as your 907x 50c) I once used the old S-Planar T* 120 f5.6 C for some circuit board macros with great results (S stand for "special").
The S-Planar is officially said to have the same optical schema as the more modern Makro-Planar CF 120 f/4 you mentioned, but from the official HB documentation it seems they are not exactly the same. Someone says the S-Planar is better, as the new Makro-Planar has been adapted to be more of a general purpose lens, while the S is especially optimized for very close focus distances. Don't know whether it is true.

Here are the links to the documentation with MTF charts:
S-Planar: http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu/pdf/lds/C120.pdf
Makro-Planar: http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu/pdf/lds/CF120.pdf

However, I think that any of the two can do the work, as you would only use the central sweet spot of it. If I were in you I would try, maybe with the S-Planar which should be on the cheap side.
Moreover, If you decide to acquire the S-Planar, take one with T* multi-coating.

Best
Marco
 
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rdeloe

Well-known member
+1 for the Pentax 645 120mm macro. It's excellent and cheap. The A version and the FA version have the same optics, but the A version has a nice focus system because it's a fully manual lens.
 

P. Chong

Well-known member
I have the original HC 4/120 Macro. It is an excellent lens. Mk2 is has better control of chromatic aberrations at close distances than Mk1, I can’t say that I see much difference in the photos. It is a pity that both XH adapters do not allow you to use the leaf shutters. I don’t know why Hasselblad did not do that. I use the HC lenses regularly on my GFX which allows use of the leaf shutters for use with strobes.

I'm thinking of using my 907x 50c for scanning 120 film (current kit is a Panasonic X1R with a Sigma 70mm macro) Considering my V 120 f/4 macro with extension tubes or getting the V Bellows and the 135, but I don't think it'll be super sharp. Probably best is the outstanding HC 120 Macro II, but with an adaptor, it's ~2k. Because I don't think I'd use it for anything else, that's more than I want to spend. I'm currently experimenting with the very fine Nikon 105 f/2.8 macro and the Nikon to XCD adaptor and the few shots I've taken look pretty good. I've also tried my brilliant Zeiss zf.2 100 f/2 macro. I could add extensions to bring it to 1:1, but even at 1:2 there is vignetting and serious purple fringing with the Blad.

Wondering if anyone has other inexpensive (or less expensive that the HC solution) ideas. Of course, unless I use the XCD macro (very expensive, 1:2, and not highly regarded), I lose autofocusing, but I'm okay with that for macro work.
 

bags27

Well-known member
With my CFV-50c (same sensor as your 907x 50c) I once used the old S-Planar T* 120 f5.6 C for some circuit board macros with great results (S stand for "special").
The S-Planar is officially said to have the same optical schema as the more modern Makro-Planar CF 120 f/4 you mentioned, but from the official HB documentation it seems they are not exactly the same. Someone says the S-Planar is better, as the new Makro-Planar has been adapted to be more of a general purpose lens, while the S is especially optimized for very close focus distances. Don't know whether it is true.

Here are the links to the documentation with MTF charts:
S-Planar: http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu/pdf/lds/C120.pdf
Makro-Planar: http://www.hasselbladhistorical.eu/pdf/lds/CF120.pdf

However, I think that any of the two can do the work, as you would only use the central sweet spot of it. If I were in you I would try, maybe with the S-Planar which should be on the cheap side.
Moreover, If you decide to acquire the S-Planar, take one with T* multi-coating.

Best
Marco
Thanks so very much, Marco. I'm curious whether you used extension tubes between the 907x and the S-Planar to bring it closer to 1:1. And, if so, did you use V extension tubes or X extension tubes. Thanks!
 

mristuccia

Well-known member
Thanks so very much, Marco. I'm curious whether you used extension tubes between the 907x and the S-Planar to bring it closer to 1:1. And, if so, did you use V extension tubes or X extension tubes. Thanks!
I had the first version of CFV-50c which came without any 907x.
It was a 503cw + V extension tubes for me.
I was using flash light so I couldn't use the 907x even if I had it.
 

hasselblad 503cw

Well-known member
I am using CF 135MM F5.6 with Bellow, 40630 extension ring x2, slide copier to digitalize 120 film.
I used P65, if for 44x33 sensor, longer subject distance will applied. so Extension ring recommended.
For my experience the results are quite good. very sharp and efficient. I used F11 1/500 with my Elinchrom Strobe as light source.
Compare with the MTF, The S-planar is better. value to get one. I don't think f5.6 is dark to focus. I used continuous light for focus just beside the strobe.
hope can help.
IMG_2649.jpg
 
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Duff photographer

Active member
I am using CF 135MM F5.6 with Bellow, 40630 extension ring x2, slide copier to digitalize 120 film...
As hasselblad 503cw says, if you are able use a bellows, that will open up a lot more options which include "large format" macro lenses such as Schneider's and Rodenstock's 'digital' versions of their macros. They are not only high resolution, but also flat field. They can be had for between $/€/£500 and $/€/£1000 (-ish) if you look around enough. This can also include APO versions of process lenses used in reverse which will be cheaper, but with no loss with regard to resolution.


Cheers,
Duff.
 

jng

Well-known member
As noted above by others, the Hasselblad 5.6/120 S-Planar, 4/120 Makro-Planar, and 5.6/135 Makro-Planar are all excellent lenses. I’ve owned all three and ultimately kept the S-Planar, which I feel is marginally sharper than the others (but maybe this is just my imagination influenced by the MTF charts) and shows no discernible CA when shot wide open. All lenses do well on the IQ4 150 and CFV100C and should do a perfectly fine job scanning film. Both 120s will require extension tubes to get to 1:1 (I think the native limit is closer to 1:5?). V system extension tubes are pretty cheap and easy to find used (check KEH), and can be stacked. Note, however, that you are likely to trigger the leaf shutter when separating the lens from extension tube so it’s a good idea to have the slotted key handy to re-cock the shutter (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...hassy_tool_camerakey_tool_for_hasselblad.html). The 135 on the bellows will achieve 1:1 magnification, the 120s will give you even higher mag on the bellows.

John
 
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wattsy

Well-known member
I have the original HC 4/120 Macro. It is an excellent lens. It is a pity that both XH adapters do not allow you to use the leaf shutters.
Maybe I am misunderstanding the situation, Peter, but I thought that the HC 120/4 I and II both work in leaf shutter mode with an X body and the XH adapter. You just lose AF (irrespective of firmware and/or presence of the orange dot).
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Soup approves of this discussion. X2D, Mamiya 645 120/4 Macro at 1:1, f/11, 1/6 second, resting on the floor, ES, and a cat, so sharpness is ... limited.
Reminder: set IBIS focal length to 240 when shooting 1:1 with a 120mm lens (I think.. Pretty sure.. Maybe .. Could be wrong...)


Matt
 

bags27

Well-known member
As noted above by others, the Hasselblad 5.6/120 S-Planar, 4/120 Makro-Planar, and 5.6/135 Makro-Planar are all excellent lenses. I’ve owned all three and ultimately kept the S-Planar, which I feel is marginally sharper than the others (but maybe this is just my imagination influenced by the MTF charts) and shows no discernible CA when shot wide open. All lenses do well on the IQ4 150 and CFV100C and should do a perfectly fine job scanning film. Both 120s will require extension tubes to get to 1:1 (I think the native limit is closer to 1:5?). V system extension tubes are pretty cheap and easy to find used (check KEH), and can be stacked. Note, however, that you are likely to trigger the leaf shutter when separating the lens from extension tube so it’s a good idea to have the slotted key handy to re-cock the shutter (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...hassy_tool_camerakey_tool_for_hasselblad.html). The 135 on the bellows will achieve 1:1 magnification, the 120s will give you even higher mag on the bellows.

John
Thanks! I already have the extension tubes, but it sounds as if the Hasselblad 5.6/120 S-Planar on bellows might be the simplest solution.
 

darr

Well-known member
In my experience digitizing film with the Hasselblad CFV 50c and CFV II 50c digital backs, I've explored various combinations within the Hasselblad V system, including using the Flexbody. I've worked with the CFi 120mm M, CF 135mm M, multiple extension tubes (including the variable extension tube), a 2x teleconverter, and bellows. Additionally, I've used the ALPA TC paired with multi-use adapters to achieve 240mm of extension, combining these with a Schneider Digitar 120mm M lens and the same digital backs.

While the results from the Hasselblad V system were quite good, I found that the digitizing workflow was smoother with the ALPA setup. Although this setup isn't the ideal workflow for me, it does improve upon using only Hasselblad equipment. Let me explain.

For my digitization process, I mount everything on a Besler CS-21, a copy stand designed for medium and large format cameras. My approach includes both stitched copies and single-frame shots, often using bracketed exposures to see if this technique benefits the negatives. In some cases, the bracketing proved to be valuable. Through this process, I discovered that similar results could be achieved using smaller format sensors, like APS-C.

Today, I no longer rely on a medium format digital back for film digitization. However, I still use my CFV II 50c digital back with an ALPA camera and lenses for small product and still-life photography, utilizing the copy stand as needed.

You might be wondering why I haven't used the 907x body for digitizing. The main issue with this setup is the strain it can place on the camera's lens mount when mounted on a copy stand. Without additional support—such as a foot on the lens or bellows—the weight can stress the camera's lens connection point. To avoid this, I would rely on the bellows, which have a built-in foot, but nope, I am not going that route again; as I said prior, building out the system based around the Hasselblad bellows and tubes is too clunky for my workflow needs.

If you plan on using the 907x with the XV adapter and 120mm M or other lenses and extensions, I strongly recommend adding a lens foot to help distribute the weight. When I first tried mounting everything with the CFi 120mm M, it felt like I was taking a chance on the safety of my gear, which did not align with how I liked to manage my equipment or spend my shooting time. For those considering this configuration, I suggest following Hasselblad 503cw's example by using tripods. However, depending on the film formats you intend to digitize, tripods might not work for all setups, which is why a copy stand is an option.

Nowadays, I've simplified my digitizing process by using a Fujifilm X-Pro3 paired with a Zeiss Touit macro lens. This lens handles autofocus effortlessly and fills the frame without needing additional tubes or bellows. If I need larger image files, I capture slices that can be easily stitched together in Lightroom.

For lighting, I rely on a Sunray Copy Box II for 6x6, 6x12, and 4x5 negatives. For my 6x17 negatives, I use an old Microtek negative carrier placed on a Kaiser lightbox.

Below is a snapshot of most of the gear I've used for digitizing film. However, my go-to setup remains the X-Pro3 with the Zeiss Touit 50mm M lens on autofocus. If film digitizing were something I did more frequently, I'd consider investing in a high-resolution camera, like a 60MP Sony with a dedicated macro lens.

Everyone has unique needs when it comes to digitizing. For my process, I've found that using digital backs isn't necessary. If I were offering digitizing services for consumers or businesses or selling large wall prints (I do not sell prints), I'm sure my equipment choices would be different. But for my current photography needs, I'm pretty content using my copy stand with a lightweight camera and an excellent macro lens that delivers precisely what I need through autofocus.

Best to you,
Darr


 

rdeloe

Well-known member
During my last (and final!) "return to film", I digitized 4x5 negatives with a Fuji X-T2 and a really good Olympus OM macro lens. It's easier to use a larger sensor, but even with the tiny APS-C sensor in the X-T2 you can get the job done.

Being long-winded ;) I wrote about the setup here: https://www.largeformatphotography....era-scanning-on-the-cheap-an-example-approach
Darr's approach looks a lot more sophisticated than mine. I got by with an old tripod. A copy stand would be the ideal tool.

Wet mounting negatives is surprisingly easy and effective by the way.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I did plenty of negative capture using the CFVII 50c back fitted to my Hasselblad 500CM (and occasionally the 907x), using extension tubes with the standard V-system Planar 80mm f/2.8 lens and a couple of modest extension tubes. The 500CM was supported by the body directly, the 907x by the XV adapter and tripod mount for it. Never any problems. After all, the 6x6 format is captured onto the 33x33 sensor area is only about 1:1.6 magnification, approximately, which is not too difficult to achieve.

I've since moved to doing negative capture with the Leica M10-R and M10-M bodies, using the Leitz Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm f/2.8 (and Macro-Adapter-R tube) or Macro-Elmar-R 100mm f/4 (and Focusing Bellows-R). That nets a smaller, handier setup for the capture, and the output quality is not significantly degraded with these two 40 Mpixel bodies. A 6x6 negative is about a 1:2.6 magnification, no sweat for either of these lens setups.

G
 

abruzzi

Member
Darr's approach looks a lot more sophisticated than mine. I got by with an old tripod. A copy stand would be the ideal tool.
I built a copy stand out of spare Sinar parts. I found a X standard bearer, attached Sinar's camera mount, and attached a Pentax K-1ii with either a 50 or 100 macro lens, depending on the size of the negative. Since the X standard has all geared movements squaring and framing is reletively easy.
 

P. Chong

Well-known member
Mea culpa. Indeed it does allow use of the leaf shutter.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the situation, Peter, but I thought that the HC 120/4 I and II both work in leaf shutter mode with an X body and the XH adapter. You just lose AF (irrespective of firmware and/or presence of the orange dot).
 

bags27

Well-known member
In my experience digitizing film with the Hasselblad CFV 50c and CFV II 50c digital backs, I've explored various combinations within the Hasselblad V system, including using the Flexbody. I've worked with the CFi 120mm M, CF 135mm M, multiple extension tubes (including the variable extension tube), a 2x teleconverter, and bellows. Additionally, I've used the ALPA TC paired with multi-use adapters to achieve 240mm of extension, combining these with a Schneider Digitar 120mm M lens and the same digital backs.

While the results from the Hasselblad V system were quite good, I found that the digitizing workflow was smoother with the ALPA setup. Although this setup isn't the ideal workflow for me, it does improve upon using only Hasselblad equipment. Let me explain.

For my digitization process, I mount everything on a Besler CS-21, a copy stand designed for medium and large format cameras. My approach includes both stitched copies and single-frame shots, often using bracketed exposures to see if this technique benefits the negatives. In some cases, the bracketing proved to be valuable. Through this process, I discovered that similar results could be achieved using smaller format sensors, like APS-C.

Today, I no longer rely on a medium format digital back for film digitization. However, I still use my CFV II 50c digital back with an ALPA camera and lenses for small product and still-life photography, utilizing the copy stand as needed.

You might be wondering why I haven't used the 907x body for digitizing. The main issue with this setup is the strain it can place on the camera's lens mount when mounted on a copy stand. Without additional support—such as a foot on the lens or bellows—the weight can stress the camera's lens connection point. To avoid this, I would rely on the bellows, which have a built-in foot, but nope, I am not going that route again; as I said prior, building out the system based around the Hasselblad bellows and tubes is too clunky for my workflow needs.

If you plan on using the 907x with the XV adapter and 120mm M or other lenses and extensions, I strongly recommend adding a lens foot to help distribute the weight. When I first tried mounting everything with the CFi 120mm M, it felt like I was taking a chance on the safety of my gear, which did not align with how I liked to manage my equipment or spend my shooting time. For those considering this configuration, I suggest following Hasselblad 503cw's example by using tripods. However, depending on the film formats you intend to digitize, tripods might not work for all setups, which is why a copy stand is an option.

Nowadays, I've simplified my digitizing process by using a Fujifilm X-Pro3 paired with a Zeiss Touit macro lens. This lens handles autofocus effortlessly and fills the frame without needing additional tubes or bellows. If I need larger image files, I capture slices that can be easily stitched together in Lightroom.

For lighting, I rely on a Sunray Copy Box II for 6x6, 6x12, and 4x5 negatives. For my 6x17 negatives, I use an old Microtek negative carrier placed on a Kaiser lightbox.

Below is a snapshot of most of the gear I've used for digitizing film. However, my go-to setup remains the X-Pro3 with the Zeiss Touit 50mm M lens on autofocus. If film digitizing were something I did more frequently, I'd consider investing in a high-resolution camera, like a 60MP Sony with a dedicated macro lens.

Everyone has unique needs when it comes to digitizing. For my process, I've found that using digital backs isn't necessary. If I were offering digitizing services for consumers or businesses or selling large wall prints (I do not sell prints), I'm sure my equipment choices would be different. But for my current photography needs, I'm pretty content using my copy stand with a lightweight camera and an excellent macro lens that delivers precisely what I need through autofocus.

Best to you,
Darr
Thanks so very much, Darr: that's super helpful! I use the same copy stand. Rock solid. And like you, I went from a manual focus set-up (original Mamiya 645 macro) to autofocus (Sigma 70) without any apparent loss of sharpness. So, I am rethinking my intended upgrade.

Among the many things here that are food for thought, of course keeping the negatives flat is a big one. The Sunray is supposed to do that, but some reviewers worry, without any evidence that I'm aware of, that they might scratch the negatives.

Instead of using my CFV II 50c, I might use a Sigma fp l, which has the Sony 61 mps sensor. That way, I could maintain autofocus Of course, it has only an electronic shutter. I wonder if anyone's had any experience with that.
 
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