Canon Pro-4600 or GP-4600S, any experience?

[Jorgen Udvang]

Due to a couple of client requests, I'm considering buying a 44" printer. Due to mixed experiences with Epson's customer support in this country (which appears not to be run by Epson), I'm focusing on Canon, but there are other reasons as well, like user replaceable print head (I gave up on my P3880 when I was offered print head replacement for more or less the price of a new P800).

The obvious choice would be the new, 12 colour Pro-4600, but I'm also considering the cheaper GP-4600S, which is the same printer but with 7 colours (CMYKK + grey + orange). I assume that ink costs would be lower as well on the latter. The question is print quality, and if the difference would really be visible at the viewing distance of rather large formats (mostly 60" x 36"). My logic is that for the price difference, if needed, I could buy an Epson P900 or whatever comes after the Canon Pro-1000 to print very high quality on sheets up to 17".

I'm going to do print tests and cost comparisons next week, but it would be interesting to hear the opinions of others of the two printers or the 24" or 60" versions. Anybody?

 

[scho]

I ran a Canon IPF 24 inch 12 ink printer for several years, but eventually the cost of ink and parts replacement became too much so I replaced it with an Epson P800. When I need larger prints I just have them made at BayPhoto.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

I ran a Canon IPF 24 inch 12 ink printer for several years, but eventually the cost of ink and parts replacement became too much so I replaced it with an Epson P800. When I need larger prints I just have them made at BayPhoto.

The problem for me is that there's nobody doing quality photo prints here. A couple of places have the Epson P6000 (24", launched in 2015 but still sold new here), but they seem to use third party inks and cheap paper plus have little understanding of what they are doing. The nearest quality shop is in Bangkok, 2 hours and 30 minutes away, and their prices are through the roof. So people come to me and ask if I can print for them. I already have orders for large prints representing half of the price of the printer, plus more in the pipeline. I just have to buy the printer first.

A P900 would be nice, but the market here (mostly hotels, restaurants and large rental condos) is large prints.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Strange things happens. I visited a Canon/HP showroom to do some test prints, starting with the Canon Pro-2600. I wasn't really interested in the HP printers, but eventually they convinced me to make a few prints on the Z9+ to compare. There's only one thing to say: I was blown away! Colours were spot on, rich and saturated and suddenly the Canon looked a bit bleak. Unfortunately the HP has received some rather mixed reviews (to put it mildly), but no one seems to question its image quality.

Does anybody here have any experience with the Z9+? I consider buying a roll of good quality matt paper to repeat the tests with the material that I will mostly use.

More to follow...

 

[Remko]

Does anybody here have any experience with the Z9+? I consider buying a roll of good quality matt paper to repeat the tests with the material that I will mostly use.

More to follow...

Jorgen,

I can so imagine your enthousiasm after seeing a print from the Z9! I had the same response back then. Unfortunately, I would stay away from the Z9. Their are quite some people who consider it a paper weight that is unsaleable. Which is very unfortunate as the printer on launch date looked sooo promising! Especially for photographers as it has a brilliant system to keep the print heads clog free when not being used for a long time, without wasting a tremendous amount of ink.

Long story short: all the developers of the Z9 left - or were forced to leave - a couple of years ago because of HP's financial situation and the decision its management made. There are lots of serious issues with the software. The ICC profile making is severely handicapped compared to the previous HP printer (the Z3200). Many owners kept their Z3200 for that reason to make the profiles for the Z9 on that machine. With "making" I mean having read/scan the color patches printed on the Z9 on the Z3200 and having it create the profile from it.
Many see it now as HP left the market for fine art printing to its competitors.

I met part of the HP team in the year of the launch at the Photokina back then. Never met such a bunch of highly dedicated people who were so proud of their product! Had a great conversation with their product manager. Such a shame that that team is no longer there!
I very much liked the prints they were showing! Yes, the colour space is smaller compared to Epson and Canon, but that is when measured. It depends on your requirements (and clients) whether that will be an issue or not.

I had a lot of forum discussions saved in a folder within my browser, but because of the problems with this printer I will for sure not buy one. And quite recently deleted that folder.

I remember that printing on sheets is a night mare. Some people made an extra support of metal that helped. The version with the second roll paper holder gave issues that never have been solved. But maybe you don't print sheets and do not need a 2nd roll paper holder.

I just made a search. Here are some that I found:

Printing issues with HP Z9 44"

Printing issues with HP Z9 44"

forum.luminous-landscape.com

New HP Z9+ Evaluation Video

New HP Z9+ Evaluation Video

forum.luminous-landscape.com

Re: HP Z9+ - massive downgrade from 3100/3200: Printers and Printing Forum: Digital Photography Review

Expert news, reviews and videos of the latest digital cameras, lenses, accessories, and phones. Get answers to your questions in our photography forums.

www.dpreview.com

Neil Snape was one the beta testers for the Z9 and bought one after the launch. At the end of some years he was unhappy. I quote: "I am going to sell it for almost nothing anyway as I've never found it to be a good printer...".
You can read it at the bottom of this post: https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=135630.msg1214211#msg1214211

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Remko

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Jorgen,

I can so imagine your enthousiasm after seeing a print from the Z9! I had the same response back then. Unfortunately, I would stay away from the Z9. Their are quite some people who consider it a paper weight that is unsaleable. Which is very unfortunate as the printer on launch date looked sooo promising! Especially for photographers as it has a brilliant system to keep the print heads clog free when not being used for a long time, without wasting a tremendous amount of ink.

Long story short: all the developers of the Z9 left - or were forced to leave - a couple of years ago because of HP's financial situation and the decision its management made. There are lots of serious issues with the software. The ICC profile making is severely handicapped compared to the previous HP printer (the Z3200). Many owners kept their Z3200 for that reason to make the profiles for the Z9 on that machine. With "making" I mean meaning having read/scan the color patches printed on the Z9 on the Z3200 and having it creating the profile from it.
Many see it now as HP left the market for fine art printing to its competitors.

I met part of the HP team in the year of the launch at the Photokina back then. Never met such a bunch of highly dedicated people who were so proud of their product! Had a great conversation with their product manager. Such a shame that that team is no longer there!
I very much liked the prints they were showing! Yes, the colour space is smaller compared to Epson and Canon, but that is when measured. It depends on your requirements (and clients) whether that will be an issue or not.

I had a lot of forum discussions saved in a folder within my browser, but because of the problems with this printer I will for sure not buy one. And quite recently deleted that folder.

I remember that printing on sheets is a night mare. Some people made an extra support of metal that helped. The version with the second roll paper holder gave issues that never have been solved. But maybe you don't print sheets and do not need a 2nd roll paper holder.

I just made a search. Here are some that I found:

Printing issues with HP Z9 44"

Printing issues with HP Z9 44"

forum.luminous-landscape.com

New HP Z9+ Evaluation Video

New HP Z9+ Evaluation Video

forum.luminous-landscape.com

Re: HP Z9+ - massive downgrade from 3100/3200: Printers and Printing Forum: Digital Photography Review

Expert news, reviews and videos of the latest digital cameras, lenses, accessories, and phones. Get answers to your questions in our photography forums.

www.dpreview.com

Neil Snape was one the beta testers for the Z9 and bought one after the launch. At the end of some years he was unhappy. I quote: "I am going to sell it for almost nothing anyway as I've never found it to be a good printer...".
You can read it at the bottom of this post: https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=135630.msg1214211#msg1214211

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Remko

Thank you for the heads up Ramko. It's a real pity with the Z9, and at my age, I'm not going to be buying anything that will cause problems. Basically that leaves me with Canon, since my experiences with Epson in this country are far from encouraging. I have done extensive tests with a Canon Pro-2600 (Pro-526 in Asia), and I don't need any better image quality than that. Their large format photo printers also come with free delivery, assembly and setup plus a 3 year on-site warranty in this country, so I should be in safe hands. Also encouraging is that the 9 year old Pro-1000 (Pro-500 in Asia) finally has received an upgrade and a new name (Pro-1100/510) with the same inks and print head as the Pro-x600 series, which means that I can mix between a large format and a sheet printer getting the (hopefully) same colours.

What impressed me the most with the HP was the image quality on cheaper papers. When using higher grade photo/art papers, Canon was mostly on par with the Z9. But again; brand has been chosen, and the decision about size will be taken within a couple of weeks.

 

[Remko]

Thank you for the heads up Ramko. It's a real pity with the Z9, and at my age, I'm not going to be buying anything that will cause problems. Basically that leaves me with Canon, since my experiences with Epson in this country are far from encouraging. I have done extensive tests with a Canon Pro-2600 (Pro-526 in Asia), and I don't need any better image quality than that. Their large format photo printers also come with free delivery, assembly and setup plus a 3 year on-site warranty in this country, so I should be in safe hands. Also encouraging is that the 9 year old Pro-1000 (Pro-500 in Asia) finally has received an upgrade and a new name (Pro-1100/510) with the same inks and print head as the Pro-x600 series, which means that I can mix between a large format and a sheet printer getting the (hopefully) same colours.

What impressed me the most with the HP was the image quality on cheaper papers. When using higher grade photo/art papers, Canon was mostly on par with the Z9. But again; brand has been chosen, and the decision about size will be taken within a couple of weeks.

That sounds to me as a great decision, Jorgen! Great to read about your experience with the Canon Pro-2600. I am very interested in that printer as well.

Good luck with your decision and enjoy your soon to get new printer!

Cheers,
Remko

 

[Camel]

I just installed the Canon Pro-4600. I printed several images today using Epson Legacy Plantine. I'm very impressed with the quality (marginally better than I was getting with the Epson) and ease of operation. Obviously, I can't draw to many conclusions yet. The setup was very straight forward. I was using the Epson P9000 and decided to switch when it started to malfunction. The repair cost estimate was over $1,500. IMO, this is a more user friendly printer from an operating perspective.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

I just installed the Canon Pro-4600. I printed several images today using Epson Legacy Plantine. I'm very impressed with the quality (marginally better than I was getting with the Epson) and ease of operation. Obviously, I can't draw to many conclusions yet. The setup was very straight forward. I was using the Epson P9000 and decided to switch when it started to malfunction. The repair cost estimate was over $1,500. IMO, this is a more user friendly printer from an operating perspective.

Ease of operation and maintenance are key factors for me, obviously in addition to print quality. Lately, I've been doing test prints on Ilford Fine Art Smooth 200 gsm and Hahnemühle Photo Matt Fibre 200 gsm (for "serious" work, I'm mostly going to print on matt art papers). Results on both were impressive to my eyes. The last test was done at Canon's printer showroom in Bangkok, and their product manager, who has 35 years experience with printers at Canon, gave me a thorough explanation of Canon's printer product philosophy and a brief rundown on the printing software, all of which seemed very reassuring.

I've given myself another week or so to make my final decision on which printer, and there's a 45-60 days lead time (even though the printers are manufactured here in Thailand), but I'm clearly going for Canon.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Decision made. I'm buying the GP-4600S (GP-546S in Asia). After not having looked at the test prints for a week, I had a look again, hardly anybody will be able to pick which printer is which. Both Hahnemühle and Canson offer ICC profiles also for this less expensive printer, and being in Thailand, there aren't really any other paper choices that make sense.

I can't wait. Unfortunately, I've been told that it will take 45-60 days before I get the printer, so I have to wait.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Christmas time

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Some experiences after 10 days of use:
This printer is magical! I always feel a bit nervous when buying something that is not top-of-the-line, so also in this case. I chose to go with the 7 ink GP model rather than the 12 ink Pro model. To make it even more challenging, I started off, after a few test prints, with a series of 181 x 102 cm prints for a fellow photographer. Every time I saw a tiny detail that didn't seem right, I ran to the computer to check the file. Every single time the, the imperfection could be seen on the screen as well.

I mostly print on matt paper, the relatively cheap Hahnemühle Photo Matt Fibre 200 gsm to start with, and the colours and details are to die for. Likewise with the luster paper that came free with the printer. The Canon print programme, Professional Print & Layout, is a challenge sometimes, but very functional once I understood the "logic". A few hours of YouTube tutorials helped a lot.

More experiences and some photos will follow.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Production ongoing.

 

[Abstraction]

Interesting, the Pro 4600 is $500 less than the GP-4600S in the States. Where in Thailand are you?

 

[MGrayson]

Jorgen,
You weren't tempted by the fluorescent pink of the GP-4000?

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Jorgen,
You weren't tempted by the fluorescent pink of the GP-4000?

I was scratching my head for days while trying to figure out what the point was. Does the world really need that many pink posters? Must be said that the orange colour of the GP-4600S has a similar function for poster printing. You just have to print orange or red posters instead of pink and purple ones. The biggest difference though is that the orange also enhances warm tones plus increases the general colour space when printing photos. What I don't understand is why the GP-4600S also prints more saturated blues than the Pro-4600. Skies mostly look better, and if there's too much of it, I adjust saturation slightly.

I am still very satisfied with the printer, and have just completed printing a series of 9 landscape photos on Hahnemühle Photo Matt Fibre sized 191 x 112 cm for a client. Everyone who sees the prints, the photographer included, is totally blown away by the quality.

A little word of caution:
Some of those large photos are night skies from Iceland, Himalaya and the Andes. Since those skies are extremely colour saturated with double the ink consumption compared to images with a "normal" saturation, the ink never really settles properly on matt papers. I have solved it by spraying them with Hahnemühle Protective Spray. Before I started spraying them, the frame maker destroyed the first print by just touching it wearing a cotton glove. "Normal" prints are very robust on both glossy and matt papers. I held a test print on matt paper under running water, and I could just wipe the water off and hang it to dry without making a visible difference to the print.

Here's an example of a photo that had to be handled with care, Kirkjufell in Iceland:

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Interesting, the Pro 4600 is $500 less than the GP-4600S in the States. Where in Thailand are you?

I'm in a place called Huai Yai, 30 minutes drive south east of Pattaya, less than 90 minutes from Bangkok.

Yes, the saving is real compared to the Pro model. It also means simpler, cheaper logistics with fewer inks. Be aware though, that the GP model doesn't have the gloss optimizer. For me that doesn't matter much, since I print almost exclusively on matt papers, but for others it might. If possible, I would do my own test on matt as well as glossy or semi-gloss papers. That's what I did, and the product guy at Canon, who was present during the last test session, admitted that it was very hard to see the difference between the prints from the two printers.

 

[Abstraction]

I'm in Pattaya proper. I'd love to pay you a visit sometime, if you don't mind.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

I'm in Pattaya proper. I'd love to pay you a visit sometime, if you don't mind.

Any time. I'll give you my contact info on PM.

 

[fatfrog]

Hey Jorgen, how are you finding the printer after a few months? I noticed you observed it was a tad saturated in the blues and was wondering if that is a trait of the printer?