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EVFs and digital backs

ThdeDude

Well-known member
I recently bought a Fuji GFX II ... I realise just how much a high quality and movable EVF can add to my shooting experience.
Never thought about that! Or similarly, about tiltable or even fully articulated camera displays. Looked at this more negatively in terms of added weight, bulk, complexity, and fragility.

The CVF-100c is, like the CVF-50c Mark II, supposed to have a tiltable screen. Curious to know how much difference in practice a tiltable screen makes compared to a fixed screen. I found it most convenient to have the display at or near eye level, however if display is tiltable the camera could be lower and still have a good view of the display without me going on my knees. If fully articulated, can also angle display as to minimize/remove glare.

Will add to my IQ5 wishlist:
- at least tiltable screen
- wireless iPhone support (as outlined in the post above)
 
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Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
Titlable is not a must for me – I like the enclosedness and legendary ruggedness of P1 backs. A fast wireless EVF interface as shown by DJI in their drones would be nice enough, alongside an EVF accessory which can be mounted on the XT or on any tech cam via hotshoe.

I would assume that this won't come though.
 

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
It already works ok as of now, but the speed is slow and the IQ4s battery is drained very fast. Also it is not really ad hoc, the whole process is slow.
 

ThdeDude

Well-known member
It already works ok as of now, but the speed is slow and the IQ4s battery is drained very fast. Also it is not really ad hoc, the whole process is slow.
Have the IQ3-100 and had mixed success with "Capture Pilot". (But lack of familiarization and routine may have been an issue.)
 

akaru

Active member
Anyone with a new iPhone or Android tried using usb for tethering?

Makes me wonder, would the phone try to charge itself off of the back, or vice versa?
 

buildbot

Well-known member
Makes me wonder, would the phone try to charge itself off of the back, or vice versa?
99% sure it will always charge the back, at least for an IQ3 - USB B connectors can only feed power into a device, not from a device. IDK about the IQ4.
 

ThdeDude

Well-known member
I have charged my battery inside the IQ3 using a USB B 3.0 cable. The critical thing here is to use a USB B 3.0 cable and not a rather similar looking USB B 2.0 cable.

I wonder, tethered Live View on iPhone?
 
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AreBee

Member
A more elegant setup exists.
  • Use a Zacuto Kameleon EVF (the Zacuto Gratical EVF in the photo does not support HDMI input; the Kameleon does)
  • Use a battery adapter to power it.
  • Use a Giottos MH 1004 mini-ballhead to support the EVF (video is cued).
As an alternative to the (modern) Kameleon EVF, use the (old) EVF Pro (refer to mini-ballhead video generally).

I don't own an IQ4 150 so cannot comment on the specifics. If I understand correctly your post, the photographer must navigate what is displayed on an EVF via the IQ buttons/touch screen? Not ideal, but perhaps not insurmountable if one was sufficiently familiar with the IQ to operate it with their eye to the EVF eyecup?

Just a thought.
 

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
A more elegant setup exists.
  • Use a Zacuto Kameleon EVF (the Zacuto Gratical EVF in the photo does not support HDMI input; the Kameleon does)
  • Use a battery adapter to power it.
  • Use a Giottos MH 1004 mini-ballhead to support the EVF (video is cued).
As an alternative to the (modern) Kameleon EVF, use the (old) EVF Pro (refer to mini-ballhead video generally).

I don't own an IQ4 150 so cannot comment on the specifics. If I understand correctly your post, the photographer must navigate what is displayed on an EVF via the IQ buttons/touch screen? Not ideal, but perhaps not insurmountable if one was sufficiently familiar with the IQ to operate it with their eye to the EVF eyecup?

Just a thought.
That's what I did. I got the Kameleon of course. The picture is an old picture from Photokina to show what many years ago was paraded around (pre Kameleon days) in the context of the Platon project (camera rig for Hassy 100 mpx H ystem).

The Kameleon is great, but it is still large and bulky if you attach it to a comparatively smaller tech camera frame or, forbid, a TC.

Battery to carry around is a pain in the a**, but of course convenient in the sense you'll never run out of power with a larger power bank.

The deal breaker are the ergonomics and the slow IQ4 navigation. It is useless. You need a lot higher refresh rate, an ability to control where you zoom in not from the back but somewhere more convenient (believe me it is annoying to use the EVF to check critical focus). Most importantly the firmware on the HDMI side is badly implemented or let's say not intentionally implemented as an EVF, but rather say a live view 100% feed for macro photogs or fashion photographers with a client in the back looking at the feed – one should ideally have automatic manual focus detection to 100% zoom to check sharpness like on Leica SL camera as a focusing aid for adapted M lenses; here you don't have anything.

It didn't work for me and I don't easily give up. The Zacuto idea was in the end a big waste of money. A lot better to tether in the field with an M1 AIR in a shaded hardshell case. Checking incoming C1 images is also a lot better than a crappy HDMI feed from the camera. It is super easy to just loot at the tethering screen while shooting. Leaves the HMDI option primarily as a macro live feed for a monitor on the side of say a P3 rig where you can finely compose and set sharpness. For anything else I think it is not really good on the IQ4 platform.

I got only 50% of the initial investment back as I needed to sell not only the viewfinder, but all the expensive little arms and mounting accessories which you don't get anything for almost when selling it off as a second-hand item. These viewfinders are also not selling like pancakes ... so if you try this, be aware you could lose quite a bit of money while trying.

Some budding film making kid bought it then from me for an excellent price.
 
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ThdeDude

Well-known member
It didn't work for me and I don't easily give up. The Zacuto idea was in the end a big waste of money. A lot better to tether in the field with an M1 AIR in a shaded hardshell case. Checking incoming C1 images is also a lot better than a crappy HDMI feed from the camera.
Thx for letting us know your experience. (Probably wishful thinking that a bigwig at P1 reads this and can/does something about it.)
 

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
Even if someone would read this, there's no money for such a niche project to develop the firmware to improve HDMI useability.

DJI has shown what cable free live streaming from the drone can look like and if P1 wanted, they probably could create a very robust wireless EVF implementation for the IQ5 – but I highly doubt it...
 

JaapD

Member
Even if someone would read this, there's no money for such a niche project to develop the firmware to improve HDMI useability.
You're joking, right? Unfortunately you're not ;)

Let me guide you where the money should come from. The sales price of a IQ4 150 consists of roughly 3 items being Bill of Material + labor + huuuge profit. The last one is tied to 'niche product' and should be the source of the budget for implementing the improved HDMI usability. PhaseOne owe it to their customer base of their non-EVF backs, enabling them to make use of the various HDMI field monitors out there.

Cheers,
JaapD.
 

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
You're joking, right? Unfortunately you're not ;)

Let me guide you where the money should come from. The sales price of a IQ4 150 consists of roughly 3 items being Bill of Material + labor + huuuge profit. The last one is tied to 'niche product' and should be the source of the budget for implementing the improved HDMI usability. PhaseOne owe it to their customer base of their non-EVF backs, enabling them to make use of the various HDMI field monitors out there.

Cheers,
JaapD.
The % of users needing HDMI for field monitors is very low. If the IQ4 had video recording abillities it would be perhaps constitute a case.

C1 hasn't even implemented a simple metadata tag match for the XT 40 HR tilt – ie they can't even be bothered to call up C1 to ask them to add a simple metadata tag to the same distortion correction data as the Rodie 40 HR which is already available in the software.

I think we'll get the XT XL next year – 18mm left / right – and in 2025 or thereabouts maybe, Sony depending, a new IQ.
 

jduncan

Active member
I recently bought a Fuji GFX II, primarily because I liked the EVF and the tilt adapter for that EVF. After using the camera for a while, I realise just how much a high quality and movable EVF can add to my shooting experience. The Fuji EVF is well integrated, allowing seamless back and forth between the screen and the EVF, and there are no additional bits and pieces dangling from wires.. That integration is what makes the Fuji EVF ergonomically acceptable, as opposed to being a good idea that is actually a PITA to use.

The EVF matters many of us cannot focus modern MF sensors with suboptimal viewing methods. For example, my old eyes find peering at the IQ4 screen very difficult in any sort of ambient light. Hooded loupes are a pain because you have to keep bending down to use them. My knees are just as old as my eyes. To make things easier with the IQ4 and Rm3di, I tether a tablet PC in the field, but that is heavy, clumsy and has its own problems with ambient light. I end up being unable to compose well in the camera because I can't see properly. Focus and composition are much easier with the EVF abd GFX II (though that has its own focus issues). I want that level of ease with my digital back.

Manufacturers should offer a back with a detachable and adjustable EVF, fully integrated with the back. An alternative would be for someone to build an aftermarket product that accomplishes both the viewing and integration aspects. I am hoping this thread can put some thoughts on this issue in one place, just in case someone in the industry is interested.
I expecting /hoping that the next generation Hasselblad V (907 series replacement) will have face detect AF with a proper atachable EVF and assist with critical focus when mounted on a film camera.
IF they don't Phase One may be willing to do it, but at Phase One prices.
With the new Sony the Flash Sync advantage of MF is out, so it's very difficult to justify Phase One Prices. Hasselblad and Fuji are luxury prices but they are withing reason.

Best regards,
 
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