TechTalk
Well-known member
In my personal opinion, baloney.
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Hasselblad discontinues the H?
- Thread starter jduncan
- Start date
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
You are right, I forgot to mention that they still have a back. But I hear they are selling a mere 500 units and where is the 100 megapixel version? It is also not an easy proposition with P1 backs selling at 7-8k atm.
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
In my personal opinion you are a die hard Hasselblad fanboy sugarcoating reality.
Hasselblad is a marketing front for a Chinese prosumer camera brand at this stage and DJI has done what was to be expected from the getgo: move production to China, extract IP and shut down legacy operations if they don’t fulfill profitability requirements anymore, incl. cutting headcount in service centers.
In the meantime they were able to learn from Hasselblad and integrate the imaging know how into their drone products.
It says Hasselblad on the camera, but it is a totally different company today.
Iconic V, H and Flextight (the best desktop scanners for pros and labs) gone. Not so much of what most people and studio photographers would traditionally associate with the brand is left.
mristuccia
Well-known member
Well, if we look at the lifespan of the systems, and putting aside the shameful Lunar and the great XPan which can be considered as special systems, here is what we have:
V-System: 1957-2002 -> 45 years (even more if we consider the 1000F)
H-System: 2002-2023 -> 21 years (even less as nothing has happened for years)
X-System: 2019-???? -> ???? years?
Do you see a trend here?
Now, the serious question coming out of this is: to which extent should I feel comfortable in investing on the X system as a professional?
By the way, I foresee a flying X2d camera, let's call it DJI X2f.
V-System: 1957-2002 -> 45 years (even more if we consider the 1000F)
H-System: 2002-2023 -> 21 years (even less as nothing has happened for years)
X-System: 2019-???? -> ???? years?
Do you see a trend here?
Now, the serious question coming out of this is: to which extent should I feel comfortable in investing on the X system as a professional?
By the way, I foresee a flying X2d camera, let's call it DJI X2f.
Steve Hendrix
Well-known member
It's unrealistic to make a grudging point that a company that became famous as an iconic analog camera brand 69 years ago is not naturally associated with the products of today. Most analog camera companies that began 69 years ago have completely disappeared! I think you can pull the curtains aside and choose where to throw your stones. Fair enough. But today - in case you have missed it - things are tough for the camera market. Is Hasselblad now a completely different company and the name is mostly kept for valuable brand identification purposes? Yes, to a large degree. But some of what Hasselblad was known for, uniquely designed cameras that brought a sense of something positive to the market place that other cameras did not - a lot of that is still present in their products. For that, I am grateful. And based on the sales numbers we've seen, many others are as well.
Regarding professional vs non professional markets, while some camera companies focus on certain markets, others focus on making the products that they know will generate enthusiasm, be successful, and keep them in business, and which market that ends up being is, if not a secondary consideration, not necessarily a primary one. With that said, I have many professional clients shooting current Hasselblad products. One of them loves shooting environmental and industrial portraiture with a one light setup with the leaf shutter lenses from his X2D outdoors at 1/2000th of a second. Absolutely loves it. I see the absence of a remote cable release not as a decision to focus on prosumer markets, but as an example of modern engineering hubris (why do they need a cable, they have the IOS app?).
Steve Hendrix/CI
Regarding professional vs non professional markets, while some camera companies focus on certain markets, others focus on making the products that they know will generate enthusiasm, be successful, and keep them in business, and which market that ends up being is, if not a secondary consideration, not necessarily a primary one. With that said, I have many professional clients shooting current Hasselblad products. One of them loves shooting environmental and industrial portraiture with a one light setup with the leaf shutter lenses from his X2D outdoors at 1/2000th of a second. Absolutely loves it. I see the absence of a remote cable release not as a decision to focus on prosumer markets, but as an example of modern engineering hubris (why do they need a cable, they have the IOS app?).
Steve Hendrix/CI
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Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
The points I raised in essence never relate to the fact that DJI-Hassy isn't putting out good cameras! They are doing it right commercially – killing off the non-profitable stuff, moving production to China, and selling a technology-laden compact system with great IQ with a well-known brand at a lower price point. This is clearly working and people love their Xs.
On the backend of it though what happened was the company only survived by selling out its brand and IP to a Chinese conglomerate with the technological and manufacturing capabilities to create a sustainable modern camera product at a lower price point produced on the other side of the world at lower manufacturing costs.
I just find how globalization and a changing marketplace led to a fundamental transformation (vanishing?) of a traditional European manufacturing company that once was a hallmark of the Swedish industry a very sad occurrence.
Don't doubt for a second that it is a good camera and owners are happy with it and am happy that Leica was able to survive to this day incl. with product lines like the M which have existed for decades.
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Steve Hendrix
Well-known member
I would agree that it is not a happy occasion that continuation means the departure of an established company, especially one that had so many passionate admirers. Many camera companies faced this and did not continue at all. It’s hard to look at any industries and not see fallout from global changes over periods of decades. This is unfortunately - for the most part - a given. Without trying to sound glib, I try to look on the positive side that at least something that I can identify as possessing some of the traits Hasselblad was known for still exists. Change happens and faster than ever.
Steve Hendrix/CI
TechTalk
Well-known member
I quit posting here for months because you accused me of cyberstalking for discussing the completely public LinkedIn profiles of Hasselblad and DJI employees to illustrate their collaboration. I don't really care what personal attacks you choose to make anymore. If anyone wants to question the facts as I've stated them, they are welcome to do so.
Tell that to these folks who list Hasselblad as their current employer on their public LinkedIn along with their start date with Hasselblad in Sweden or Denmark:
Tomas Johansson (Mechanical Design – 1979), Jan Pettersson (Senior NPI & Quality Specialist – 1987), Karin Nilsson (IT Administrator – 1989), Ake Wassen (R&D/Project Manager – 1994), Niklas Granhage (Senior Systems Architect 2001 – 2017 / Hardware and embedded software consultant – 2021), Thomas Rogon (Sr Software Engineer Denmark – 2006), Angelica Rydefjord (Service Teamleader – 2010), Julia Yavor (Import/Export coordinator – 2013), Gabriele Tiveron (Project Manager Denmark – 2013), Mads Alexander Selvig (Creative Coordinator – 2015), Patrik Lampa (Software Developer – 2017), Adam Hultin (Test system developer – 2017), Anders Widen (Firmware Developer – 2017), Niklas Nilsson (Embedded System Engineer – 2018), Magnus Olsson (Embedded System Engineer – 2019), Erik Aderstedt (System Engineer, Image sensor calibration algorithms and software Denmark – 2015 / Senior DSP Software Engineer – 2019 Sweden), Magnus Lilliehook (LabVIEW developer – 2022)... Just a sampling of various jobs and range of start dates. AND There are more positions available they're looking to fill...
https://www.hasselblad.com/about/careers/available-positions
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
Well clearly you are back to defend DJI and again found the time to parse LinkedIn to make points on forums.
But to your point above: a listing of open positions does not mean a company is growing or doing excessively well – it can also mean that highly specialized personnel quit and they need to find replacement. Who doesn't need engineers nowadays?
And the list of employees you post are highly specialized engineers / developers / specialists – effectively the R&D team for the most part – which investors of tech companies touch last, if at all, as this is the best RoI in terms of human capital you have. What you do, however, is you move manufacturing onto the lowest cost platform, cut down all products which don't fulfill high-profit margin requirements and slim down operations to a specialized core of R&D people close to the product. You cut the fat and let the best product and R&D people work on new products. So essentially tap into the local talent pool for R&D and engineering, reduce management to the necessary elements as there's also management in China, and move production abroad.
Essentially this is what Elon is doing also with Twitter he fired 80% of the people keeping the best product people and a core of top-performing managers.
Do you have an advanced LinkedIn subscription so you can check who left in the last years?
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
Yes, agree, it is better they exist still and churn out new products. Would be an empty space if only Fuji would occupy the sub 10k MFD segment.
wattsy
Well-known member
Yes, I know about the back (it is the product I own) but it doesn't change my point that, with the discontinuation of the H products, Hasselblad no longer sells a system wide solution for traditional professional photographers working in a studio or on location with high end kit. For decades the brand was associated with what, for many, was the quintessential professional photography platform – used by everyone from social and wedding photographers (prior to the trend for reportage type coverage) to studio/advertising photographers. I get that times have changed and the company's management is doing what it feels is necessary to survive in today's market but that doesn't mean that the decision to exit the professional market isn't a sad moment in the company's illustrious history.
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
It is for sure an announcement that makes you think. Hope we don't see a similar one on the XF platform soon ...
buildbot
Well-known member
Such a cool platform, so much potential, hopefully they don’t.
There is some beautiful parallel world where the XF has a waist level 500c style version, a lightweight titanium body version for hardcore field work, and of course the XT range for mirrorless options - something Alpa 12TC like at the smallest, the XT, and something larger.
I will buy a CFV sometime, but not tomorrow. And if Phase won’t produce backs some niche company probably will, or at least try. But the ’professionalism’ may be gone. I could not support Hasselblad for Flextight, but there was Plustek trying to provide a fix product, and it suited my need and budget. (Opticfilm 120)
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Steve Hendrix
Well-known member
Can you please describe, with regard to professional photographers, what you mean by "high end"?
Steve Hendrix/CI
"High end" could mean anything. The rates charged, the reputation of the photographer, the kinds of clients, the photographer's facilities. None of which is remotely related to the equipment used. Some could be using point and shoot cameras from decades ago, some own or rent the latest gear available.
i am a young pro photographer, or still consider myself young, haha, I am now 41.. well, this morning I have shoot 65 people portraits, around 1200 portraits with XII and 90XCD. Some days I shoot in the morning and evening so my XII is working for 12 h, non stop, also work with Hs for stills, I shoot around half million pictures by year, 4-5Tb by month. Hasselblad work flow, quality and feelings are unsurpassable. For me, there is not a "pro" camera, for pro photographers cameras are tools, and tools have fails, but you choose a tool because it matches your photography. Hasselblad cameras sometimes need to be repaired, Hs, Xs, more often as I would like, (also computers, flashes, etc...), but it is a great tool, better than ever in my opinion. Sometimes I travel to Milano to shoot models, I can bring my X camera in my cabin case, close to my laptop, a light flash and some female clothes, all under 13Kg. Hassellbad X quality is amazing, that's all, XF is a copy from H, Fuji GFX is made by a knowhow learned from Hasselblad, and X deliver better quality than any 35mm with same weight and size. I hope they still design top quality products for many decades.
regards
regards
FloatingLens
Well-known member
It is clear that the current XCD lenses are made in Japan and the X dual battery charger made in China. Hasselblad has a long history of selecting the best foreign suppliers that could meet their „cost no object“ standards and Hasselblad keept specific expertise in Sweden. I believe they made the necessary adaptations in the company operations to stay competitive in the industry, which is remarkable - nowadays I don‘t expect cute cardboard boxes and leaflets printed in a Swedish factory for the country’s common good anymore. However, personally, that non-compromizing mindset one can still recognize in some of their latest product design.
wattsy
Well-known member
I was referring to high end equipment. Is that not pretty obvious what it means? (Yes, I know that any piece of photographic equipment can be used for professional purposes – and often is – but you know what kind of equipment I am referring to.)
richardman
Well-known member
My comment re: "some people think Hassy lost its way because it's DJI now" is perfectly validated by the comments posted hence ;-)
Anyway, it's the same outcries when Contax made the great Zeiss cameras, or Leica DARED to move some camera production to a different European country, or gasp, to Canada!! Remember the bruhaha when Cosina bought the Voigtlander brand? A great German name soiled by a foreign owner...
Anyone is free to have such nationalistic based pride. Companies come and go. I actually do have a Flextight, besides my SWC/M, 203FE, CFV II 50C back (and the oft-forgotten 907x camera). Love them, and I wish all camera companies best of luck in the marketplace.
Anyway, it's the same outcries when Contax made the great Zeiss cameras, or Leica DARED to move some camera production to a different European country, or gasp, to Canada!! Remember the bruhaha when Cosina bought the Voigtlander brand? A great German name soiled by a foreign owner...
Anyone is free to have such nationalistic based pride. Companies come and go. I actually do have a Flextight, besides my SWC/M, 203FE, CFV II 50C back (and the oft-forgotten 907x camera). Love them, and I wish all camera companies best of luck in the marketplace.