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Knorp

Well-known member
I know what he is thinking about the human race, Bart (apart for his thoughts of his hairdressers skills :oops:)...
I'm still puzzled (and feeling uncomfortable): what are his feelings ? Is it curiousity, annoyed, anxious ?
What would you make of his expression, Thorkil ?
 

biglouis

Well-known member
I'm still puzzled (and feeling uncomfortable): what are his feelings ? Is it curiousity, annoyed, anxious ?
What would you make of his expression, Thorkil ?
To my enduring shame when I was a child I visited London Zoo where Guy the Gorilla was incarcerated in an enclosure that you wouldn't keep a dog in (having been built and designed by the Victorians) and joined in with the popular sport of throwing monkey nuts at him. It was how zoos worked in the 1960s. Of course I was a child and only followed what other people were doing thinking it was acceptable. Thank goodness for the enlightenment which now frowns on keeping these gentle and majestic creatures in captivity except for scientific conservation purposes and mostly encourages us to see them in the wild (which I have never managed to do).
 

Thorkil

Well-known member
I'm still puzzled (and feeling uncomfortable): what are his feelings ? Is it curiousity, annoyed, anxious ?
What would you make of his expression, Thorkil ?
(I will be back Bart, with a few words, promise...)(with a risk of being complicated, but that I know you knew..;))
 

Thorkil

Well-known member
...



| gfx-100s | gf250/4.0| 1.4tc |
Bart: "
I'm still puzzled (and feeling uncomfortable): what are his feelings ? Is it curiousity, annoyed, anxious ?
What would you make of his expression, Thorkil ? "

He’s worried, Bart, deep down in his roots.

He is alarmed. He is aware of the threat we pose. He is aware of the destruction we represent and are about carrying on with. He’s sceptic by any human approach, with a partly aggressive underlying glance that, with good reason, he’s expecting nothing but huge troubles from our approach.

Look at his glance, I would consider him far more intelligent than we are. But his knowledge is resignated but angry in a quiet way, when confronted.

In his viewpoint human beings are destroying everything around them, and their mindset are eagerly expansible founded, so their mindset has already pushed the exploitation or predation of all conceivable resources on our planet far far beyond what is possible for nature and the planet to reproduce. All partly for simple consumption prestige or for an increasing number of people, partly to secure their future and partly thereafter to use the earth's resources for one big show-off, of unnecessary material over-consumption.

Our ever-increasing consumption of energy resources for unnecessary product production, for transport, home heating and entertainment now means that CO2 emissions have exploded in recent decades, and our self-destructive destruction of the earth's climate is expanding to a grotesque extent. But still, one can wonder why, there will be no sufficient mature adults present in the classroom who can stop this digging our own grave.

At the same time, our desire for sustainable energy makes certain countries pseudo-declare (Denmark f.ex.) that now electricity has suddenly turned green and that electric cars will save the world. In Denmark, we produce at some extend electricity with wind turbines, but our power plants that produce both electricity and heat for urban heating and hot water were previously coal-fired. Now these plants have been converted to burning wood and are claimed to be sustainable. They indeed aren’t. In 2017 when this process were at the beginning we burned a wood at the size of Zealand (16% of Denmark) in our powerplants, wood from Amazonas, Canada (redwood etc.), USA, Eastern Europe, and just for one year. I guess right now we are burning a wood of about half the size of Denmark every year, perhaps more. That is absolutely not sustainable. That’s actually a climate catastrophe.

So the wood on the earth are being cut down, for farming, for gardenfurniture, fine terrasse-floors and for electricity and heatproduction in the whole industrial world.

And when the wind is not blowing we expect to be able still to charge our electrical cars, turn on the light, produce unnecessary goods, so the powerplants are taking over, consuming even more wood worldwide.

My belief is, in the next 100 year we will see a temperature increasement at 5-8 degree Celcius, sea level will rise about 2 -3 meter, temperature in fex. California might hit 60 degrees. In 200 years the temperature might have risen 15-20 degree. So on several places there might be 60-65 degree. We will now be unable to survive. Desert will be the rule. The ice will have melted, the sea-level will then be 60-65 meter above status now. The Netherlands, Denmark etc. will be long gone.

The upper class is creating 7 times as much CO2 exhaust than the low-income people, in Denmark. In other countries that factor might be twice or more as high.

Do we have a chance? If we are willing to reduce the consumption by the upper class by a factor 7, the middle class by a factor 4-5, forbid everything driving bigger than a VW UP, speedlimit at 80Km/h, huge miles-tax, forbid flying, increase taxpayment in a huge amount to force consumption going down, huge miles-tax for import of goods from abroad etc. etc. (just for a start), we might give ourselves another 100 year. But in 70-80 years it won’t be fun any more living here.

But new innovative technologies then? Forget it. It takes at least 40 years to be competitive, that’s too late.

There are only the no-fun downcutting in consumption left.

Then some of the Gorillas might have a couple of years more to go.

Will the dramatic and absolute necessarily immediately consumption-cutting-down happen? No. Our self-destruction-force and -will are simply too strong. Everybody wants to get as rich as possible, as fast as possible and consume as much as possible.

And he is aware, Bart, that this frightening “human force” is unavoidable.

thorkil
 

Thorkil

Well-known member
And how did he / you figure this all out, based on what evidence?
Now we are about getting into the writing-a-book-area.
But I will see if I can get some time for some viewpoints in one or two of the spots.
Meanwhile, for sake of entertainement, and for a start, take a look at FN's (UN's) climatereport and Sebastian Mernilds viewpoints,
I'm sorry the link is only in Danish, but perhaps Google translation can manage still to make it readable
but I will try to follow up later on. Not for now.
PS. you can't look into a crystalball solely based on evidence. Off course, there ain't any evidence that can be used to make stonesure predictions.
But there are some facts that can point in whether you should choose the more sceptical or the more optimistic direction.
The actual development in climate have yet followed the more sceptical predictions. And experience seems to point at the more and the most sceptical predictions as being the most realistic scenarias.
 
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Knorp

Well-known member
Well Thorkil, that's some coming back. It seems more than I bargained for and although absolutely interesting (and worrying too) likely not fit for this thread.
Let's continue in the Sunset Bar, shall we ?
 

Thorkil

Well-known member
Yes, thats fine with me, Bart. Will the headline be "Climate" then?
K-H, I guess you will pop in too.
Bart, will you be the skilled expert to copy/move ?
But my further answering will be a bit delayed as told..things to get done..
 

Knorp

Well-known member
Yes, thats fine with me, Bart. Will the headline be "Climate" then?
K-H, I guess you will pop in too.
Bart, will you be the skilled expert to copy/move ?
But my further answering will be a bit delayed as told..things to get done..
Well yes surely I can create a new thread 'Climate' in the Sunset Bar, but then ... it'll be mine !
You're sure you won't like to create this thread yourself, Thorkil ?
 

Thorkil

Well-known member
hard times here
Bart, tried to click on "+Quote" at your gorilla-picture, then in a parallel window started the thread i Sunset Bar, but I can't figure out how to insert your message/gorillepicture.
Any help?
Think I figured it out now....but not quit well though
 
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Knorp

Well-known member
hard times here
Bart, tried to click on "+Quote" at your gorilla-picture, then in a parallel window started the thread i Sunset Bar, but I can't figure out how to insert your message/gorillepicture.
Any help?
Think I figured it out now....but not quit well though
Hi there Thorkill, I'll have a look and see what I can do.
 
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