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Phase one body and back suggestion for products/portraits

TechTalk

Well-known member
The sinar evolution lives on the p3’s cousin, the sinar repro! Finding the right adapter was a pain.
I used the Sinar p2/p3 system for years with film and digital backs from Leaf, Sinar, and Imacon/Hasselblad and loved the functionality, build quality, and most of all the exceptional modularity of the system. I also used a number of other great beautifully made view cameras over the years which produced equally good image quality, but none had the same degree of modularity or range of options as Sinar. Your repro model looks like another great tool in their system!

It's been a bit of a puzzle as to what's happening at Sinar since Leica acquired the company in 2013. It appears MacConsult in Munich now handles all of the service and distribution from Germany and they are the contact listed on Sinar's website. I did find this article at MacConsult from a year ago, both in English and in German, which suggests they've acquired Sinar from Leica and they're driving a reinvigoration of the product line which looks encouraging. Ownership is still a bit unclear as Leica still lists Sinar as an affiliate company on their website. Capture Integration is listed on Sinar's website as a reseller, perhaps Steve can shed some light.
 

Allthink_

Member
I used the Sinar p2/p3 system for years with film and digital backs from Leaf, Sinar, and Imacon/Hasselblad and loved the functionality, build quality, and most of all the exceptional modularity of the system. I also used a number of other great beautifully made view cameras over the years which produced equally good image quality, but none had the same degree of modularity or range of options as Sinar. Your repro model looks like another great tool in their system!

It's been a bit of a puzzle as to what's happening at Sinar since Leica acquired the company in 2013. It appears MacConsult in Munich now handles all of the service and distribution from Germany and they are the contact listed on Sinar's website. I did find this article at MacConsult from a year ago, both in English and in German, which suggests they've acquired Sinar from Leica and they're driving a reinvigoration of the product line which looks encouraging. Ownership is still a bit unclear as Leica still lists Sinar as an affiliate company on their website. Capture Integration is listed on Sinar's website as a reseller, perhaps Steve can shed some light.
What cameras are you using nowadays and where I can see your work?
Do you have some images to show from viewcamera?
Someone(guphotography, Paul Spinnler, daz) here said that it gives creative capabilities but I want to understand what exactly, the swing/rise option? and how it contributes to image that regular FF camera with t-s lens can't do? Is it really big advantage?
I just went late to photography, so the earliest camera I have is film Mamiya 645 AFD.
 

TechTalk

Well-known member
Nice architecture work
Yes, I will have to try them myself and see if I can get a benefit that outweights the price. The thing is it's not easy here where I live. Fuji easer, hass and phase one it's only to oder new from distributor from Europe, hence all my "blind" questions as I can't try or rent them but I will check if possible.
Whenever it's possible, It would be desirable to treat yourself to a business trip someplace where you can get some quality hands on time with the type of equipment in which you're interested. If possible, develop a relationship with a professional dealer even if it's in another country. There's a lot of good information available online, but personal experience will answer some questions which no one else can. Best of luck to you and enjoy the lifelong journey of learning which comes with being a photographer.
 

TechTalk

Well-known member
What cameras are you using nowadays...
A Hasselblad H6D-400c MS for product and repro work. It's a ridiculously expensive and niche camera which I wouldn't recommend to anyone that doesn't have some specific requirement for which it's an appropriate tool. There are a variety of cameras because there are a variety of photographers with different individual needs and preferences.

For work requiring movements, I eventually moved from a Sinar to using a Hasselblad HTS 1,5 Tilt and Shift Adapter which works for my needs — others prefer technical or view cameras. I might consider another Sinar or some other view camera in the future, if Hasselblad produces a CFV 100C back.

...and where I can see your work?
You can't. I prefer to remain anonymous online as a personal preference for personal reasons.

Do you have some images to show from viewcamera?
Someone(guphotography, Paul Spinnler, daz) here said that it gives creative capabilities but I want to understand what exactly, the swing/rise option? and how it contributes to image that regular FF camera with t-s lens can't do? Is it really big advantage?
This illustrated Technical Camera Overview from Hasselblad may give you some good basic information. There are a lot of different options available from excellent manufacturers both new and used. This particular forum is a great resource to browse and search as there are many experienced users of those options who have been active participants here for many years.
 

Pieter 12

Well-known member
"I wonder what is it exactly that you think you will gain from using different equipment? Are you looking to expand the possibilities of what you might be able to do?"
Yes, that's what I asked, what I can gain using different equipment that I mentioned earlier. I don't know, hence I asked about different options going DMF and if it will be a good investment in my case. Yes, I want to expand my possibilities. I mentioned product and portraits. I wander if DMF will give me that "wow"/appreciation of clients for very high details of MF for products, and different look for closeup portraits. So i mentioned 2 cameras, but actually it can by any DMF camera that can give me creative options.
What are you shooting with and where I can see your portfolio?
I shoot mostly MF film, but my color work is DMF, Rolleiflex Hy6 with a Leaf Aptus II 7 back and a Leica S 006. CCD rules! pdekoninck.com
 
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daz7

Active member
You're absolutely right and that's a problem with the kind of short-form written electronic communication we frequently use today — text messages, email, forum chats, social media, etc. They lack the tone of voice you get when speaking directly with someone.
That's why the words and phrases like "please", "thank you", "would you be able to", "would be great", or "appreciate" were invented.
I could not see any of these in the OP posting.
End of topic for me.
 

TechTalk

Well-known member
Some videos which may interest you showing the use of some lens / camera movements. These camera combinations are only a few out of many options and not intended to suggest in any way that these are the best or better options. I've used Hasselblad cameras for decades and so I happen to remember these videos. There are many other options which may be better suited for your needs.

I'm posting links to these videos to simply illustrate the practical use of movements in a few situations. If you use Google to search for videos along the lines of using a view camera or using technical camera movements, I expect you will find many which will introduce you to more movements and their use in other applications using other camera systems.

From mathphotographer YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/Hasselblad View Camera with Tilt/Shift functionality

https://www.youtube.com/X2D + HCD 4/28 + HTS 1.5 + XH 0.8x

From Hasselblad Expert YouTube Channel:

https://www.youtube.com/ArcBody with CFV II 50C

https://www.youtube.com/ArcBody with 35mm Apo-Grandagon
 
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Allthink_

Member
That's why the words and phrases like "please", "thank you", "would you be able to", "would be great", or "appreciate" were invented.
I could not see any of these in the OP posting.
End of topic for me.
Hey
I wrote "In case you have that" and at the end "that will help me" but probably tone of voice was flipped to negative side while it wasn't my "tone". If I forgot to add "please" or "thank you" it's not because of lack of respect.
Sadly some here and maybe you took/adopted the negative side of interpretation, while it wasn't my intent.
 

Allthink_

Member
Some videos which may interest you showing the use of some lens / camera movements. These camera combinations are only a few out of many options and not intended to suggest in any way that these are the best or better options. I've used Hasselblad cameras for decades and so I happen to remember these videos. There are many other options which may be better suited for your needs.

I'm posting links to these videos to simply illustrate the practical use of movements in a few situations. If you use Google to search for videos along the lines of using a view camera or using technical camera movements, I expect you will find many which will introduce you to more movements and their use in other applications using other camera systems.

From mathphotographer YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/Hasselblad View Camera with Tilt/Shift functionality

https://www.youtube.com/X2D + HCD 4/28 + HTS 1.5 + XH 0.8x

From Hasselblad Expert YouTube Channel:

https://www.youtube.com/ArcBody with CFV II 50C

https://www.youtube.com/ArcBody with 35mm Apo-Grandagon
Thank you very much for help
Because I don't think there are some workshops of how to work on such systems, or any paid tutorials, hence such info is appreciated.
 

dchew

Well-known member
What cameras are you using nowadays and where I can see your work?
Do you have some images to show from viewcamera?
Someone(guphotography, Paul Spinnler, daz) here said that it gives creative capabilities but I want to understand what exactly, the swing/rise option? and how it contributes to image that regular FF camera with t-s lens can't do? Is it really big advantage?
I just went late to photography, so the earliest camera I have is film Mamiya 645 AFD.
Max, If you want to learn some basic info about today's technical cameras, I've written a few articles here:
Introduction
Lenses and Accessories
Bags, Packing and Processes
Using Camera Movements in the Field

I'm not sure how helpful these will be, since it is more about "how" and less about "why." You might find some value in the first article. There are a few differences between these cameras and a camera equipped with a tilt/shift lens:
  1. A tilt/shift lens can only move in one dimension at a time. You can rise/fall or shift, but you can't do both at once. Same with tilt. You can tilt or swing, but not both.
  2. Most, but not all, t/s lenses move the lens, not the capture device (camera or back). I much prefer moving the capture device because moving the lens changes perspective. Note the new Fuji t/s lenses have a collar/foot in the right place so you can move the capture device. This is excellent.
  3. A technical camera has movements in-camera, so you get them with all your lenses, not just purpose-built t/s lenses.
  4. T/S lenses have a limited range of movements. Most t/s lenses are limited to between 10-15mm of movement.
  5. In my opinion, movements are much easier to manage from the camera than from the lens simply because the knobs are bigger and more accessible.
None of these are a "really big advantage." For me, they add up to a different experience in the field; I value that experience. But they also come with really big limitations in other areas. Hand holding is pretty much out of the question, nothing is quick and lenses are slow.

Dave
 
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Allthink_

Member
Hi Max,

Cambo has posted a six-part introductory video tutorial on technical camera movements, here:

Video Introduction of View Camera movements (cambo.com)

Rod
Wow, that's a gem. Thank you Rod. Nowadays as fewer and fewer people shoot those systems, harder to get such informative videos or even paid ones. I would be glad even to buy some, but never saw anything in that direction and I see many tutorials by respected photographers.
 

Allthink_

Member
Some videos which may interest you showing the use of some lens / camera movements. These camera combinations are only a few out of many options and not intended to suggest in any way that these are the best or better options. I've used Hasselblad cameras for decades and so I happen to remember these videos. There are many other options which may be better suited for your needs.

I'm posting links to these videos to simply illustrate the practical use of movements in a few situations. If you use Google to search for videos along the lines of using a view camera or using technical camera movements, I expect you will find many which will introduce you to more movements and their use in other applications using other camera systems.

From mathphotographer YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/Hasselblad View Camera with Tilt/Shift functionality

https://www.youtube.com/X2D + HCD 4/28 + HTS 1.5 + XH 0.8x

From Hasselblad Expert YouTube Channel:

https://www.youtube.com/ArcBody with CFV II 50C

https://www.youtube.com/ArcBody with 35mm Apo-Grandagon
Hi
Some time ago you gave me some good info and videos, thanks for that
Drevil mentioned on his last post that I have to try it myself. I agree. The thing is some cameras are not possible to "try" as they are not produced.
So, for products and architecture i discovered additional two options and wanted to hear your opinion as I can buy any of these options
1. Hasselblad H5d-50c wifi camera and HTS adapter with 24,28,35,50,80,110 lenses
2. Fuji GFX 100s and GFX adapter to adapt hasselblad lenses. Fuji's own 30mm ts is very expensive and I already have 24mm PC-E fron Nikon

So I wonder if any of these cameras will give me something more than mu current 45mp full frame.
I mean, maybe more dd and editing capabilities in post.
I ask myself if I don't print big, will my clients appreciate the results (in technical terms) of any of these cameras. Usually it's for web that they use(either products (tethering) or portraits or interior design/architecture)

Will I gain something going that route?
 

Allthink_

Member
All the people that were nice to me here in this thread, maybe you can look at my last reply to TechTalk above and give your opinion on that
I have to say there is no try option, it's only a buy option hence I ask in case you had experience with one of these and can suggest something ( Hasselblad H5d-50c , Fuji GFX 100s )
 

P. Chong

Well-known member
My 2 cents. I think both your new alternatives are very good options. Personally, I would prefer the GFX route. More modern connectivity as well as a lighter kit than H5D/H6D. The H5D-50C has the same sensor as the GFX50 cameras.

I have done something similar adapting my H lenses to the GFX. I chose the GFX 50S II when the decision came to retire my H3D-39. The H is still being used as a film camera these days. I have been adapting my H(28/80/120/50-110) for almost 2.5 years, and use the setup professionally. The plan is to replace the H lenses when they stop working with either other adapted lenses, or with native Fuji lenses. The “new” 30 T/S for architecture and the 110 T/S for product work also fits my use case. These are such a gems. But as you said, they are quite expensive. And will be good options if/when the HCD28 or the HC120 fails. If I were to do this today, I would go for the GFX 100 II. The H Adapter G works very well, but adds a bit of bulk.

If you are interested in my rationale, here is a write up I did.

 

Allthink_

Member
My 2 cents. I think both your new alternatives are very good options. Personally, I would prefer the GFX route. More modern connectivity as well as a lighter kit than H5D/H6D. The H5D-50C has the same sensor as the GFX50 cameras.

I have done something similar adapting my H lenses to the GFX. I chose the GFX 50S II when the decision came to retire my H3D-39. The H is still being used as a film camera these days. I have been adapting my H(28/80/120/50-110) for almost 2.5 years, and use the setup professionally. The plan is to replace the H lenses when they stop working with either other adapted lenses, or with native Fuji lenses. The “new” 30 T/S for architecture and the 110 T/S for product work also fits my use case. These are such a gems. But as you said, they are quite expensive. And will be good options if/when the HCD28 or the HC120 fails. If I were to do this today, I would go for the GFX 100 II. The H Adapter G works very well, but adds a bit of bulk.

If you are interested in my rationale, here is a write up I did.

Thank you P.Chong
Your answer actually helps
If I go FUJI route, which Hass. lenses do you recommend for product and other portraits commercial photography? except the ones that I mentioned to work with TS-E (24,28,35,50,80,110)?

If i'm to adapt HTS and Hass. to Fuji adapter, i adds 2 additional chains between and get's bulky as well as 2 crop factor(from HTS and adapter), while on Hass is just only HTS(1 crop factor only).

Maybe it's a good option then to go Laowa lens 20mm ts-e made for fuji?

Do you think my clients will see the difference between my current 45mp full frame?

How much shutter actuations of Hass lens is OK for second hand, to still use it for long time?
 
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SylB

Well-known member
Hello,

Which 110mm are you thinking about for H system ? There is a HC100, and a HC120 macro, but no HC110 that I know (except in the 50-110 zoom).
One more thing, I don't follow the crop factor difference you mention in your post : the adapter doesn't add any crop factor on the Fuji (it is just a tube), and on the Hasselblad your are considering (H5D-50c), it is a crop sensor (44x33, exactly like Fuji's), so regarding angle of view and corresponding focal lengths, both options are identical.

Regarding lens actuations, I think 50k is the official reliability limit on HC lenses, maybe somebody will be able to correct or confirm. So if you can have less than that, it is safer.
 

P. Chong

Well-known member
Ah I was under the impression that you already own H lenses. That was my case. But if you didn’t, I would think there are other options. Mamiya lenses work well. As do Pentax, with their respective adapters (non Fuji). And these are inexpensive. I haven’t used the Canon TS-E, but I understand works well too.

With adapted lenses, in the studio, you are stuck to Fuji’s 1/125s flash sync. But on the H lenses, you have 1/800 which I feel is an advantage in product work. Also, the H lenses are being traded for cents to its former retail dollar, so are relatively inexpensive these days. I remember my HC120macro was some USD6k new, but you can get a reasonable condition example the on eBay for USD1k+ these days. I have the 28, 80 (very sharp, small, and inexpensive. Often overlooked), 120 macro for my work, which is mostly macro, with some portraits and architecture. If I start from a fresh sheet of paper today, I would get the GFX 100 II with both the GF T/S lenses. And maybe add a GF80 for portraits. I will need the 18mm extension tube for the 110 T/S for my macro. But this setup is all native Fuji, and is expensive. But it works very well, and I have tried it.



The HTS does not add crop, but you get a 1.5x focal length multiplier…that is a 50mm lens has the same field of view equivalent of 75mm. Which will look like a 59mm full frame field of view on the GFX. And yes it does get quite bulky with the HTS. I also found the HTS cumbersome to work with. As others have mentioned, if you chose GFX/HTS, the adapter and HTS is so large that you may be better off with a small setup like the Cambo Actus, albeit more expensive. The Cambo will also be more flexible. Of course the advantage of the HTS is that it is positionally aware, and transit the shift and tilt data to the back. It does this on the H bodies, but I am not sure if it does this through the Fuji adapter to the GFX. I don’t have the HTS anymore.

regarding if clients will notice. It depends.. I don’t know your clients. But most will not. Mine do not notice the difference. Most of the art directors in magazines I work with, and the watch manufacturers who I shoot for, do not care what camera or lens I shoot with. But I do think gear makes a difference. To the photographer more so than to the buyer. If the gear makes me feel good shooting, I think I make better photographs with it than gear which is uninspiring to me.

regarding actuations on the H lenses, I think it is difficult to judge. I have seen shutter actuations in the mid 10s of thousands…like 50k or 75k still going strong and work well. But I have also seen shutter failures with 10k actuations. I think these shutters are designed for high actuations, as these are made for professional environments, but being mechanical, it can fail anytime.

Thank you P.Chong
Your answer actually helps
If I go FUJI route, which Hass. lenses do you recommend for product and other portraits commercial photography? except the ones that I mentioned to work with TS-E (24,28,35,50,80,110)?

If i'm to adapt HTS and Hass. to Fuji adapter, i adds 2 additional chains between and get's bulky as well as 2 crop factor(from HTS and adapter), while on Hass is just only HTS(1 crop factor only).

Maybe it's a good option then to go Laowa lens 20mm ts-e made for fuji?

Do you think my clients will see the difference between my current 45mp full frame?

How much shutter actuations of Hass lens is OK for second hand, to still use it for long time?
 
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Allthink_

Member
Hello,

Which 110mm are you thinking about for H system ? There is a HC100, and a HC120 macro, but no HC110 that I know (except in the 50-110 zoom).
One more thing, I don't follow the crop factor difference you mention in your post : the adapter doesn't add any crop factor on the Fuji (it is just a tube), and on the Hasselblad your are considering (H5D-50c), it is a crop sensor (44x33, exactly like Fuji's), so regarding angle of view and corresponding focal lengths, both options are identical.

Regarding lens actuations, I think 50k is the official reliability limit on HC lenses, maybe somebody will be able to correct or confirm. So if you can have less than that, it is safer.
Hi
Yes, I meant HC 100, the one that is compatible with HTS.
About crop factor, I saw some guy on Youtube explaining that adding adapter to FUJI GFX adds a crops factor, as well as HTS adapter itself. Hasselblad X2D + HCD 4/28 + HTS 1.5 + XH 0.8x | City Lights in Medium Format (youtube.com) - one of his vides-he has many on FUJ GFX too)

From specs of HTS adapter pdf manual that i read, it says that it also adds crop factor, as the angles mentioned for specific lens are smaller that actual one mention if using as regular lens.
What do you think about buying one of 2 mentioned options today? will the clients will appreciate the difference and quality?
 
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