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Pixii Max

Epstar83

Member
Two new toys arrived. The Pixii Max and the Light Lens Lab 28mm f/2.8 'Nine Element' All files processed in Capture 1 Pro. The lens needs an LCC profile to correct for color shifts.

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algrove

Well-known member
Congrats.
Glad to see someone has the new PIXII MAX as I want to know all the pluses and minuses.
Is this your first PIXII? Can it replace an M in your view?
 

Epstar83

Member
Thanks,

This is my first Pixii and I have had very limited time with it, so probably wouldn't be fair to draw any final conclusions. In terms of image quality I'd say it is certainly a very capable camera, and for a 24MP sensor maybe better than the M240 / M10 but It's a niche camera and will only appeal to photographers who don't mind tinkering.

Cons so far:

1. My copy arrived with the rangefinder completely out of calibration. Pixii do have a document buried in their FAQ's about how to adjust the rangefinder. I am not generally one who likes to get into this nitty gritty sort of stuff but after several attempts I was able to calibrate it quite accurately.
2. Secondly, most lenses will need an LCC correction for colour work as the lenses project quite a strong blue cast on the sides of the frame. Leica corrects this with the lens profiles that are available in camera.
3. The Pixii has no screen, so in use it is similar to a Leica MD type camera. I found the 'centre weighted' and 'average' metering to be woefully inaccurate. Shooting with the exposure compensation at -1.5 for most of the images seems to do the trick.
4. You can look at your images as you're shooting in the app, but it is slow and sort of defeats the purpose of having a camera with no screen.
5. The shutter sound is quite soft and in noisy environments might be hard to tell if you actually took the picture.
6. Battery life is awful. I'd say a minimum of 2 spares need to be carried to get through a full day of shooting
7. The focus patch is a little dim compared to my Leica M cameras.

Pros so far:

1. The frame line selector system is much nicer than Leica. 35mm, 40mm & 50mm frame lines are all projected as single set of frame lines. To my knowledge the Pixii cameras are the only digital M's that have 40mm frame lines built in. Pixii says the entire view finder covers 28mm field of view, based on my experience I would tend to agree with them. Any focal length less than 35mm the frame lines are removed but focal lengths down to 12mm are selectable and this information is included in the EXIF data. I think this is a very nice touch. The 75 / 90mm frame lines are the only ones that are shared.
2. I like the concept of the Pixii, the body is upgradeable as and when upgrades become available. Leica offers this to a very limited degree, for instance the M10 can be upgraded to an M10P. But Pixii have pushed this a lot further... the original Pixii which had an APS-C sensor can be upgraded to a Max with a full frame sensor. I wonder if they will be able to fit a better battery into the existing body in future...
3. Internal storage up to 128 GB. Pixii were doing this from day one and it is a nice solution.
4. USB-C charging
5. The monochrome mode! Delivers true monochrome DNG files. I haven't tested this extensively yet, but I do think this offers a small resolution advantage over converting the colour files in post.
6. I like the colours once the files are corrected. This is obviously subjective and should be taken with a pinch of salt from a guy who predominantly shoots in B&W. My M digital bodies have all been Monochrom for the last 5 years.

Realistically I think most people who just want a reliable M camera to shoot with and a budget in the ballpark of a Pixii will be better off finding a nice second hand M10 / M10P from a good dealer that offers a warranty. The Pixii is a niche camera from a very small company that will appeal to people who like to tinker or want a camera with Pixii's unique features. Those are my thoughts so far. I will keep sharing my experiences with it here.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I tried a Pixii for a month back in Spring 2022. I ultimately found it to have too many issues (key of which was that I'd often need to carry 3 or 4 batteries for a single photo walk, and the shutter activation no matter how I configured sound or tactile notifications made it very difficult to know for sure when I'd actually made an exposure...) and returned it, but it convinced me that I really really wanted a monochrome camera. Once the Pixii was returned, I bought one of the last Leica M10 Monochrom cameras available new from my dealer.

By comparison, the M10-M just works and lasts for several of my shooting sessions on a single charge of its battery (typically 600-800 exposures per charge in normal use), and its haptics are just right. It has just a bit more dynamic range at the limit and just a bit more resolution at the limit, and of course it is full frame vs my Pixii's APS-C format which nets more DoF control with a less "exotic" range of focal lengths. I liked it so much that after four months, I hunted up a nice, clean M10-R and sold my Leica CL so that I'd have a color camera identical in all other respects to the M10-M to work with. These are now my primary shooting tools and displace my other digital cameras for most purposes, including the Hasselblad 907x/CFVII 50c (which I keep along with the rest of the V system for sentimental reasons mostly, and because there are certain situations where the larger sensor—and access to 6x6 format on film!—still has an advantage).

I hope that the Pixii Max and later developments of the Pixii firmware have overcome some of the more egregious annoyances of my 2022 Pixii. The folks at Pixii all seemed to be trying hard to produce a quality camera; the issues that I ran into point to how complex and difficult it can be to do that for a broad customer base. Very small and seemingly insignificant things can make or break an otherwise excellent design for a lot of individuals.

G
 

Epstar83

Member
I tried a Pixii for a month back in Spring 2022. I ultimately found it to have too many issues (key of which was that I'd often need to carry 3 or 4 batteries for a single photo walk, and the shutter activation no matter how I configured sound or tactile notifications made it very difficult to know for sure when I'd actually made an exposure...) and returned it, but it convinced me that I really really wanted a monochrome camera. Once the Pixii was returned, I bought one of the last Leica M10 Monochrom cameras available new from my dealer.

By comparison, the M10-M just works and lasts for several of my shooting sessions on a single charge of its battery (typically 600-800 exposures per charge in normal use), and its haptics are just right. It has just a bit more dynamic range at the limit and just a bit more resolution at the limit, and of course it is full frame vs my Pixii's APS-C format which nets more DoF control with a less "exotic" range of focal lengths. I liked it so much that after four months, I hunted up a nice, clean M10-R and sold my Leica CL so that I'd have a color camera identical in all other respects to the M10-M to work with. These are now my primary shooting tools and displace my other digital cameras for most purposes, including the Hasselblad 907x/CFVII 50c (which I keep along with the rest of the V system for sentimental reasons mostly, and because there are certain situations where the larger sensor—and access to 6x6 format on film!—still has an advantage).

I hope that the Pixii Max and later developments of the Pixii firmware have overcome some of the more egregious annoyances of my 2022 Pixii. The folks at Pixii all seemed to be trying hard to produce a quality camera; the issues that I ran into point to how complex and difficult it can be to do that for a broad customer base. Very small and seemingly insignificant things can make or break an otherwise excellent design for a lot of individuals.

G

Hey Godfrey,

I think we have quite similar taste in cameras. Lol.

Unfortunately all the downsides you mentioned about the earlier APS-C version of the Pixii are still valid for the Max. In addition because the Max is relatively brand new and developed by such a small team it is still a little buggy, though credit to the Pixii team, they are indeed working on resolving these things. A couple other frustrations is my copy came with the rangefinder completely out of adjustment. Pixii do have a document available that explains how to calibrate the rangefinder, which I did manage to do after much frustration. After about 4 weeks of shooting though, I'm already noticing that the vertical alignment is starting to drift. Also the focus patch is nowhere near as bright or contrasty as the Leica. That being said it hasn't stopped me from achieving accurate focus. My other frustration is metering, I basically have to leave it set at -1.5 to -2.0 stops of exposure compensation. I know Pixii users have voiced their concerns about this in the past so I hope it will get resolved. Considering it is a camera without a screen I think an accurate highlight weighted system would be the way to go. This should be achievable in a firmware update.

I actually bought the Pixii Max for similar reasons to your M10-R purchase (I also currently own an M10M). I thought the Pixii was an interesting camera and I still do. Having one camera that can do both good colour and high quality monochrome is rather unique. The upgradeable hardware concept of the Pixii is also quite amazing, If you consider that current Pixii APS-C owners can have their existing camera body upgraded to a full frame camera!

Some of the other plus sides of the Pixii is their frame-lines selections. Much nicer than Leica. Having only 35, 40!! And 50mm and then combining 75/90mm. In addition if you select 28mm or wider it removes the frame-lines altogether. The full viewfinder is essentially 28mm equivalent field of view and for wider lenses most folks are going to use an accessory finder.

My plan is to hang on to mine for a little longer to see what else Pixii come up with. Long term though I do see myself replacing the Pixii with a colour M body.

Ultimately it begs the question, who is this camera for? I think anyone who revels in unique cameras, enjoys tinkering and doesn't mind waiting for Pixii to rollout the upgrades which will surely be coming over time will have a great deal of fun with the Pixii.

For anyone looking for a reliable rangefinder camera right out the box though, the Red Dot is still the best choice if it is within one's budget.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Hi MIke,

You're making some very nice photos with your Pixii Max! Bravo!

It's sad to hear that most of the same old issues remain with the Pixii Max. The battery life, in particular, was absolutely awful when I tested the camera, and made it next to useless. Other haptics problems made it difficult to make settings or even tell when an exposure had been made. Ugh ... It was actually sad to me that these basic elements of camera usage had problems. But that's long ago and far away now. I hope the Pixii Max gets the development it needs!

Keep on shooting and posting, I like seeing your photos! thanks! :D

G
 
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Epstar83

Member
Hi MIke,

You're making some very nice photos with your Pixii Match! Bravo!

It's sad to hear that most of the same old issues remain with the Pixii Max. The battery life, in particular, was absolutely awful when I tested the camera, and made it next to useless. Other haptics problems made it difficult to make settings or even tell when an exposure had been made. Ugh ... It was actually sad to me that these basic elements of camera usage had problems. But that's long ago and far away now. I hope the Pixii Max gets the development it needs!

Keep on shooting and posting, I like seeing your photos! thanks! :D

G
Thanks Godfrey,

Yes, it is by no means a perfect camera but it is capable of making some lovely images!

My solution to the battery life is to always have at least two fully charged spares with me. The spare batteries are inexpensive and quite small so they don't add any weight or use much space in the bag. The haptics with the shutter are still an issue. I don't quite know what they could do to change it. I also wish the RF patch would not fall out of calibration as quickly as it does. Something I am hoping will be resolved in firmware is the metering, on the Max it is off by quite a margin. I either meter all my scenes with the spot meter or in aperture priority mode I under expose by two stops. Less than ideal. I think it could benefit greatly from an accurate HW metering mode.

Cheers,

M
 

Epstar83

Member
Thanks for all your pics in B&W.

I am still trying to figure out how it switches to monochrome and are those B&W images DNG or of RAW file nature?
The monochrome mode is switched on in the cameras settings menu or via the Pixii app. In monochrome mode it produces monochrome DNG files. If you shoot in monochrome DNG mode no colour information is available post production.
 

pegelli

Well-known member
Thanks. So is it interpreting the color data and then converting to B&W DNG?
I don't think so. It basically knows the "filter factor" for the R, G and B filters on the individual photo cells and applies these in camera to achieve an even monochrome image. So I think the signal from the sensor is never "debayered" when shooting monochrom. Only people with a PIXII will be able to test how much more resolution this yields in practice vs. an "after the fact" B&W conversion of a debayered colour image.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I think @pegelli is correct ... And when I was testing the Pixii, I was so captivated by its use as a monochrome camera that I never thought to do any rigorous comparison test of the same shot with the same lens in both Mono and RGB modes to evaluate acutance, noise, and spectral map. Doh!

The Pixii really was the final kick that inspired me to buy a Leica M10 Monochrom, and I got one of the last new ones that Dan Tamarkin was able to obtain from Leica USA.

G
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
I've written and deleted this comment at least three times because I don't know exactly what they do. But based on their website, their stated technique violates some very simple mathematics. Simply put, in order to tell the illumination on a filtered pixel, it is necessary to know both the filter characteristics AND the spectrum of the incoming light. Even more simply put, a white light and a dimmer red light will look the same through a red filter. Debayering *is* the process of determining the likely color at each pixel, and only then can one estimate the original illumination by measuring the filtered signal. Of course, if the subjects were actually monochrome, this would work perfectly. :)

I assume (big assumption) that this is what BW converters in modern RAW processors do and they don't just produce a TIFF internally and go from there. Pixii may do a very good job, and their monochrome images look great, but it can't be the same as a monochrome sensor.

Matt
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Matt,

It seems to me that if you know the color and strength of the filter and the spectral response curve of the sensor (both of which will be fixed constants), you can calculate the illumination level of the incoming light regardless of what color it might be since you can infer it from the three things you already know, and put out a reasonably accurate value to record as its monochrom value.

Sensor response at color(1) is X (constant)
Filter absorbtion at color(1) is D (constant)
Filter pass at color(1) is W (constant)
input light total luminance is R
output signal representing monochrom value is L

So for some arbitrary color light at luminance R, the sensor pixel puts out voltage G. You know the absorption (how much of which wavelengths will hit the pixel at luminance R due to D and W), and you know how much voltage X the sensor will output, so you can calculate the monochrom output luminance L from that.

Please correct me if you think this is wrong... :D
I haven't looked at my calculus books in three or four generations of high school students... LOL!

G
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Matt,

It seems to me that if you know the color and strength of the filter and the spectral response curve of the sensor (both of which will be fixed constants), you can calculate the illumination level of the incoming light regardless of what color it might be since you can infer it from the three things you already know, and put out a reasonably accurate value to record as its monochrom value.

Sensor response at color(1) is X (constant)
Filter absorbtion at color(1) is D (constant)
Filter pass at color(1) is W (constant)
input light total luminance is R
output signal representing monochrom value is L

So for some arbitrary color light at luminance R, the sensor pixel puts out voltage G. You know the absorption (how much of which wavelengths will hit the pixel at luminance R due to D and W), and you know how much voltage X the sensor will output, so you can calculate the monochrom output luminance L from that.

Please correct me if you think this is wrong... :D
I haven't looked at my calculus books in three or four generations of high school students... LOL!

G
You only have one data point - a voltage output from the sensor. Tell me how, even in principle, you could determine the illumination level of two different colors which produce the same signal at the sensor. Even a Foveon sensor, knowing three color measurements, is subject to metamerism (yellow and blue may be filtered differently from green - we see them the same, but the sensor wouldn't).

I could be missing something, but I just don't see enough data present at the pixel to back out R without knowing in advance what its spectral properties are. Measurement is a many to one map.

M
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
But couldn't you use something like a Bayer map to deduce the incoming light color@luminance by comparing response in a matrix of photosites around each output pixel site? I guess you'd have to be doing a part of the raw conversion on the incoming signal to deduce the luminance of the pixel values, not looking at each photosite as an independent and discrete entity like you can with a true monochrome sensor.

It's an interesting puzzle for sure as to exactly how they do it...

G
 
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