Would you mind sharing the 100% crop of the pictures you captured with Nikkor 300/9 (and Apo-Tele-Xenar 5.6/400 Compact) and IQ 4150? I'm interested in how good they are!
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Questions about Schneider Apo-Digitar 210 T
- Thread starter cuida1991
- Start date
4x5Australian
Well-known member
I checked the imaging using the live view at 100% but can make some images to share. Today has started rainy, though.Would you mind sharing the 100% crop of the pictures you captured with Nikkor 300/9 (and Apo-Tele-Xenar 5.6/400 Compact) and IQ 4150? I'm interested in how good they are!
Thank you so much. Eagerly waiting for your results.I checked the imaging using the live view at 100% but can make some images to share. Today has started rainy, though.
This would be really great. Both lenses would just work on my Linhof Techno (with extension lens panel!)Would you mind sharing the 100% crop of the pictures you captured with Nikkor 300/9 (and Apo-Tele-Xenar 5.6/400 Compact) and IQ 4150? I'm interested in how good they are!
Alkibiades
Well-known member
Digaron-SW 90 mm is not suitable for 4x5 inch as this is a retrofocus lens develope special and only for digital use. in this rage there are so many great lenses, that are unbeaten for film use and cost much much less.The Digaron-SW 90mm also has a stated image circle of 120mm. Judging by looking at the ground glass, seems to cover 4x5".
Too bad no more Polaroids, would be an easy way to test to what extend Digaron-SW 90mm and Digitar T 210mm are useable on a 4x5"?
(90mm and 210mm are the most useful focal length in a two lens 4x5" kit.)
Apo Digitar-T 210 mm shares the lens design with the Symmar-S ( so 70° image angle), so the theoretical image circle will even allow use on 13x18 cm. So it cover the 4x5 with large movements.
Alkibiades
Well-known member
Nikkor M 9/300 mm was interesting lens for film, as it was a small lens, a classic tessar lensdesign, MC cauted, that still allows use with 8x10 inch. For digital use a lens with similar lensdesign but much smaller image circle will be much more interesting, becouse it is sharper: take Apo Ronar modern MC version, it is much sharper that the nikkor and much cheaper. The image circle will allow use of 13x18 cm ( 5x7 icnh) so for digital still more movents possibilities than you camera will do.Would you mind sharing the 100% crop of the pictures you captured with Nikkor 300/9 (and Apo-Tele-Xenar 5.6/400 Compact) and IQ 4150? I'm interested in how good they are!
Alkibiades
Well-known member
Apo Ronar MC will be the sharpest here: 48° image angle, modern rodenstock MC glasses.My Nikkor-M 300mm f/9 images sharply and cleanly on the IQ4-150. (As does the Nikkor-M 200mm f/8.)
Indeed, I've recently refused a request from someone to buy my Arca-Swiss F-Metric 4x5 in large part because my 300mm f/9 and Schneider Apo-Tele-Xenar 5.6/400 Compact perform so well on the IQ4.
I checked out the 300 f/9 again from my back deck late this afternoon, with the targets including a tall construction crane about a kilometre or so away and trees set against the pale clear sky. At f/11 and f/16, the imaging was crisp. There were no colour fringes.
The performance is strongly dependent on aperture: sharp at f/11 and f/16 but obviously degraded at f/22.
The optical design of the Nikkor-M series is a copy or perhaps a slight variation of the Zeiss Tessar, with four elements in three groups.
How does the imaging compare to the Rodenstock Apo-Sironar S 5.6/300mm? I no longer have my Apo-Sironar 5.6/300mm to make that comparison. However, I would point to the advantage provided by the Nikkor-M's much smaller angle of view, being 55° at f/9 and 57°at f/22 (the Apo-Sironar S is 75°) and the weight of just 290g (the Apo-Sironar S is 1210g). The fewer elements leads to high contrast, too.
Rod
The Apo SironarS has bigger image circle , image angle 75°, but is has special coutings and an ED element that improve tha image quality, so it is still at the level of Apo ronar, even it has a bigger image angle. Also the Apo Sironar S and apo ronar is much sharper in closer distances than the tele lensdesign of the Apo Tele- tessar 400 mm, that i love on my technika 13x18.
Hello Alkibiades,Digaron-SW 90 mm is not suitable for 4x5 inch as this is a retrofocus lens develope special and only for digital use. in this rage there are so many great lenses, that are unbeaten for film use and cost much much less.
Apo Digitar-T 210 mm shares the lens design with the Symmar-S ( so 70° image angle), so the theoretical image circle will even allow use on 13x18 cm. So it cover the 4x5 with large movements.
Are you implying that the optics of Schneider Apo-Digitar 210 T is exactly the same as Symmar-S 210/5.6 and thus they have the same resolving power on digital?
Alkibiades
Well-known member
not exactly.Hello Alkibiades,
Are you implying that the optics of Schneider Apo-Digitar 210 T is exactly the same as Symmar-S 210/5.6 and thus they have the same resolving power on digital?
They share the same lens design, but the digitar is made 20 years later. Schneider and Rodenstock made 72° and 75° versions with bigger image circle for film, where bigger image circle has an advantage. For digital use it has even an disadvantage, becouse the chips are much much smaller and they need a concentrated resolution power in the center than a large image circle. So Schneider goes from the latest Apo Symmar L 75°, that has updated coutings, back to a smaller image circle to improve the resolution. So back to Symmar-S lensdesign but with higher standarts, better glasses.
I tested for fun some Symmar-S lenses , latest version, with the number 14......., thay are really sharper on digital than the newer Apo Symmar.
But the older Symmar-S is not so good- this lens was produced for more than 20 years, so the production in 70 ties was nort as good as in late 80 ties or 90 ties.
sunhouwang
Member
How about the Apo Digitar T 180mm lens, which one does it share with?Digaron-SW 90 mm is not suitable for 4x5 inch as this is a retrofocus lens develope special and only for digital use. in this rage there are so many great lenses, that are unbeaten for film use and cost much much less.
Apo Digitar-T 210 mm shares the lens design with the Symmar-S ( so 70° image angle), so the theoretical image circle will even allow use on 13x18 cm. So it cover the 4x5 with large movements.
Alkibiades
Well-known member
it shares also the Symmar-S lensdesign, but it is a fully new developed lens.How about the Apo Digitar T 180mm lens, which one does it share with?
it is much smaller, it will be mounted in copal 0 and not in Copal 1 like the classic Symmar-S.
So it is not the same lens!!!
only the lens design.
The Apo Digitar T 180 mm is the sharpest lens that has been ever produce by schneider in this range.
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Is 180 T sharper than 210 T?it shares also the Symmar-S lensdesign, but it is a fully new develope lens.
it is much smaller, it will be mounted in copal 0 and not in Copal 1 like the classic Symmar-S.
So it is not the same lens!!!
only the lens design.
The Apo Digitar T 180 mm is the sharpest lens that has been ever produce by schneider in this range.
Alkibiades
Well-known member
yes, the 180 mm is sharper. But more important would be the question for what do you need the lens.Is 180 T sharper than 210 T?
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
I think, re tech cam teles the following; I do have the 138, 210T and 210 SD (SD = Sinaron Digital):
Ranking for ranges on pancake systems:
+ 138 HR covers everything up to 180mm, including 180T / 180 SD -> problem: no one has a 138; its too expensive, but if you do you can directly go to 210 or SA 350
+ 150 Sinaron W, Sironar Digital or Apo Digitar all similar, but you can skip them if you go 180 or 210 or even have the 138
+ 210 you have a tie between 210T / 210 SD, mounted with back extenders, etc.
Beyond 210:
+ Beyond that, there's no alternative IMHO if you want utmost tele quality to go for a Zeiss SA, ideally the 350, but that's then a V adapter scenario
+ Even longer, you can still take Sironar-S LF glass, or the Fujinon-Cs 450/600, although atmoshperhic haze, stability etc. become an issue
+ Ultra long would be Apo Tele Xenar SK late-gen stuff 600/800, but that requires super sturdy setup.
All the long analog LF lenses are ok on digital if they're late-gen Sironar-S, Apo Symmar-L, but of course can't touch the acuity of the SA 350.
So in a way, ultra high quality teles stop with the SA350 and on pancake cams at 210mm due to extension limits.
The SK 240 BR is an inferior lens compared to the tech cam glass above; its better for portraits, which is where the LS also comes in handy.
Any other analog tele will not be as sharp as the Zeiss SA.
You can mount a Zeiss SA via V adapter on the FPS and stitch within that with an STC.
Its on my long list, but mounting the legendary 350SA on the FPS with the STC at the back in the field must be awesome, and if you have one of those de-commissioned old Arca ball heads you can really do landscape pano, nature, wildlife photography.
One could even with the FPS use film via the Linhof film back.
The 210T is a nice last lens for the Alpa system - the Apo Tele Xenar 250 is apparently not that sharp, so that's a good final tele on a pancake tech cam system.
Ranking for ranges on pancake systems:
+ 138 HR covers everything up to 180mm, including 180T / 180 SD -> problem: no one has a 138; its too expensive, but if you do you can directly go to 210 or SA 350
+ 150 Sinaron W, Sironar Digital or Apo Digitar all similar, but you can skip them if you go 180 or 210 or even have the 138
+ 210 you have a tie between 210T / 210 SD, mounted with back extenders, etc.
Beyond 210:
+ Beyond that, there's no alternative IMHO if you want utmost tele quality to go for a Zeiss SA, ideally the 350, but that's then a V adapter scenario
+ Even longer, you can still take Sironar-S LF glass, or the Fujinon-Cs 450/600, although atmoshperhic haze, stability etc. become an issue
+ Ultra long would be Apo Tele Xenar SK late-gen stuff 600/800, but that requires super sturdy setup.
All the long analog LF lenses are ok on digital if they're late-gen Sironar-S, Apo Symmar-L, but of course can't touch the acuity of the SA 350.
So in a way, ultra high quality teles stop with the SA350 and on pancake cams at 210mm due to extension limits.
The SK 240 BR is an inferior lens compared to the tech cam glass above; its better for portraits, which is where the LS also comes in handy.
Any other analog tele will not be as sharp as the Zeiss SA.
You can mount a Zeiss SA via V adapter on the FPS and stitch within that with an STC.
Its on my long list, but mounting the legendary 350SA on the FPS with the STC at the back in the field must be awesome, and if you have one of those de-commissioned old Arca ball heads you can really do landscape pano, nature, wildlife photography.
One could even with the FPS use film via the Linhof film back.
The 210T is a nice last lens for the Alpa system - the Apo Tele Xenar 250 is apparently not that sharp, so that's a good final tele on a pancake tech cam system.
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You didn't forget?I checked the imaging using the live view at 100% but can make some images to share.
4x5Australian
Well-known member
I haven't forgotten. However, life admin tasks have taken priority. I'm away from home and will be able to make some images next week.You didn't forget?
Have you tried the performance of Apo Ronar MC vs Apo Sironar S on high-resolution CMOS? Very curious about how they perform.Apo Ronar MC will be the sharpest here: 48° image angle, modern rodenstock MC glasses.
The Apo SironarS has bigger image circle , image angle 75°, but is has special coutings and an ED element that improve tha image quality, so it is still at the level of Apo ronar, even it has a bigger image angle. Also the Apo Sironar S and apo ronar is much sharper in closer distances than the tele lensdesign of the Apo Tele- tessar 400 mm, that i love on my technika 13x18.
Alkibiades
Well-known member
yes afcourse. both kind of lenses are still very good on the newest sensors.Have you tried the performance of Apo Ronar MC vs Apo Sironar S on high-resolution CMOS? Very curious about how they perform.
Apo sironar s are the Apo Sironar digital lenses from 135 mm to 210 mm.
Apo ronar MC lenses have similar or even higher resolution. Thay work great with 100MP sensors. Theay are very good from 1.1 to infinity.
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
Why are you over years asking the same question? You've heard it countless times here on the forum ... I don't get it.Have you tried the performance of Apo Ronar MC vs Apo Sironar S on high-resolution CMOS? Very curious about how they perform.