Schneider-Kreuznach Tele-Digitar 170mm F/2.8

[hypermanual]

While browsing eBay, I found the following:

SCHNEIDER KREUZNACH Tele-Digitar 2,8/170m 170mm F2,8 MC Copal 1 wie neu like new 701098494794 | eBay

Entdecken Sie SCHNEIDER KREUZNACH Tele-Digitar 2,8/170m 170mm F2,8 MC Copal 1 wie neu like new in der großen Auswahl bei eBay. Kostenlose Lieferung für viele Artikel!

www.ebay.de

Seller's description says, that it had been announced in 2011, but never produced in series.

Does anyone here know anything about this lens, and its performance?

 

[Ben730]

I also saw this auction. This lens seems very interesting. Aperture 2.8 for a 170 mm sounds great.
The size of the image circle would be interesting.
I own the 180mm/5.6 Apo-Digitar and it is very difficult to beat this lens.
It's razor sharp within the image circle of more than 120 mm.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

This is nothing else than the Rollei 180mm 2.8 lens, re-badged for Rollei x-act 2 system users:

Rollei Schneider AF 180mm f/2.8 HFT PQ

Cat. No. 54701 AF 180mm f/2.8 PQ HFT Lens Focus: Auto FocusWorks with: 6008AF, 6000 Series, Hy6, Hy6 Mod2, AFiFilter size: 95mmHood size/type: Bayonet 104 Rollei Part No. 98839Max Shutter and Sync Speed: 1/500thMinimum focus distance without extension: 5.8 ftWeight: 1525 grams High-speed and...

rolleiflex.us

Optically it is "meh" with an IC of 79mm and sub-par performance on modern sensors. It was discontinued quickly, because it was lacking in performance compared to other lenses for the x-act platform.

The seller is selling this lens on behalf of a widow who just wants to maximize profits. They are banking on finding a rich buyer thinking he has a "unique" lens here which might be valuable. I checked the background of this lens directly with SK when I saw this ad and they came back after some internal research saying it was just a re-mounted version of the Rollei lens.

It has a 174mm effective focal length, which is why SK felt at liberty to label it as 180mm / 170mm.

Greiner also said it has strong color fringing and is not fit for purpose for modern backs.

The Rollei version can be had used for c.2k, and I'd say this lens is not worth much more.

Unfortunately, this is not a prototype unicorn magical fantastic lens, but a common optic in a rare housing that is optically nothing special.

I also spoke to the seller who said they're testing the waters in hope someone snapt it up for a large price. I told him I think it is not worth more than 2.5k, wishing him good luck.

 

[kinglang]

Is really? It looks like Tele-xenar 250/5.6 in appearance.

 

[Maxx9photo]

This is nothing else than the Rollei 180mm 2.8 lens, re-badged for Rollei x-act 2 system users:

Rollei Schneider AF 180mm f/2.8 HFT PQ

Cat. No. 54701 AF 180mm f/2.8 PQ HFT Lens Focus: Auto FocusWorks with: 6008AF, 6000 Series, Hy6, Hy6 Mod2, AFiFilter size: 95mmHood size/type: Bayonet 104 Rollei Part No. 98839Max Shutter and Sync Speed: 1/500thMinimum focus distance without extension: 5.8 ftWeight: 1525 grams High-speed and...

rolleiflex.us

I used to have this and the 90 Makro SK for my 6008i long time ago, the 90 is one of the best I’ve ever shoot with.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Is really? It looks like Tele-xenar 250/5.6 in appearance.

Yes, this is directly confirmed in a phone conversation with the only remaining photo optics guy at SK. It is the optics of the 180 2.8 re-housed in copal for use on a bellows camera.

Even SK said it probably isn't a great lens for modern backs. Also, it is not a unicorn / prototype. There are a few of them around, but quality is "meh", which is why it was discontinued quickly when it was offered briefly for the x-act system.

To be honest, it is a lot better probably to just use the blue ring 150 2.8 which is a recent optic and bitingly sharp.

Remember that this is an "ok" medium format lens with an IC of just 79mm. So you don't have any benefits from using it on a tech cam as there's barely room for shift.

 

[buildbot]

Optically it is "meh" with an IC of 79mm and sub-par performance on modern sensors. It was discontinued quickly, because it was lacking in performance compared to other lenses for the x-act platform.

I thought the 180mm was pretty well thought of in Rollei Circles? It works well on my Hy6 + emotion 75LV, which I know is decidedly not modern.
Not to sidetrack to much, but if you talk to SK again, I wonder what they would know about this lens: https://www.ebay.com/itm/275348972011?hash=item401c13e1eb:g:mc8AAOSwJ6dc5nmV
I assume the same optics as the 180/170?

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Buildbot! You always find the secret stuff! I guess that looks very similar ...

Look, it maybe not too bad, ie not fit for purpose is relative and sometimes the look overrides micro-constrast and sharpness; I just think this is not a 7k EUR lens. Only reason you'd want to pay that amount is if you have excess money and are completing a SK collection or something.

Initially, when I saw this lens, my first thought was: PLS HAVE A HUGE IMAGE CIRCLE LIKE THE 180 / 210 digitars. So I can do 4x5 with it ...

Feelings cooled off quickly when I was told by SK that the IC is 79mm, ie you can as well take the newer Blue Ring 150 2.8 which also has an IC in that region, but is a lot sharper.

The 150 2.8 is one of the next-gen blue-ring lenses which came with the 35mm and 45mm lenses. It is a great lens and to me completely nullifies the need for the 170 2.8 when there's no IC benefit.

 

[Ben730]

This 170 mm lens remembers me the 28 mm/2.8 digitar, also a "meh" lens.

 

[Alkibiades]

This 170 mm lens remembers me the 28 mm/2.8 digitar, also a "meh" lens.

Yes, this is the same generation, where old analoge lensdesigns were converted to digital. In this time a 6 MP sensors were the newest stuff.
This lens is great for museum, but not for practical use.

 

[rdeloe]

This 170 mm lens remembers me the 28 mm/2.8 digitar, also a "meh" lens.

The 28/2.8 from Schneider? It's a terrible lens, just terrible. The Leica PC-Super Angulon version is particularly bad.

 

[hypermanual]

Look, it maybe not too bad, ie not fit for purpose is relative and sometimes the look overrides micro-constrast and sharpness; I just think this is not a 7k EUR lens. Only reason you'd want to pay that amount is if you have excess money and are completing a SK collection or something.

Initially, when I saw this lens, my first thought was: PLS HAVE A HUGE IMAGE CIRCLE LIKE THE 180 / 210 digitars. So I can do 4x5 with it ...

Thanks for the input, Paul. I would like to ask, do the 180/210 digitars really have IC large enough to cover 4x5 film? Are those relabeled analog designs, like the early apo sironar digital lenses from Rodenstock?

 

[anyone]

The real question would be: why to use a lens with limited inage circle on 4x5” when one can just use an Apo Sironar S with plenty of room for movements and excellent quality.

 

[diggles]

do the 180/210 digitars really have IC large enough to cover 4x5 film

Recently, I ran an IC test with the IQ4150 and 180T mounted on a Cambo short barrel lens panel. The camera I used is the WRS1600 which has 20mm vertical and 20mm horizontal shift in both directions. The f/stop is set to f/11, focused to infinity, and an LCC card is mounted to the front of the lens.

Included in this contact sheet are 9 different images that show the entire range of movement available on a WRS1600. You can see there is slight vignetting in the corners when using 20mm + 20mm shifts. I don't know if this is the edge of the image circle or the edge of the Cambo mount that is causing the vignetting.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

I meant that I hoped the 170 2.8 was some sort of an old analogue design with huge image circle which was shelved in prototype stage.

I am not sure if the 180 or 210 exactly cover 4x5 - maybe not - but on my Alpa Pano I cannot see and end to the image circle with the 210 apo digitar and I have never explored mounting it on a bellows camera.

The apo sironar s lenses however I did try on my f metric and the 210 has endless amount of shift and is still very good on the digital back.

 

[Ben730]

Recently, I ran an IC test with the IQ4150 and 180T mounted on a Cambo short barrel lens panel. The camera I used is the WRS1600 which has 20mm vertical and 20mm horizontal shift in both directions. The f/stop is set to f/11, focused to infinity, and an LCC card is mounted to the front of the lens.

Included in this contact sheet are 9 different images that show the entire range of movement available on a WRS1600. You can see there is slight vignetting in the corners when using 20mm + 20mm shifts. I don't know if this is the edge of the image circle or the edge of the Cambo mount that is causing the vignetting.

I think it's the edge of the Cambo WRS mount because I can't reach
the image circle with IQ1 50 on my Cambo Ultima (Max. shift: 40 mm left + 40 mm up).

 

[Ben730]

I didn't mount my 180 t digitar on WRS mount because I think it a waste, unfortunately. Instead I use the Hasselblad V 150 mm.
At F11 it's perfect and has enough room for shift with a 44 x 33 sensor.
Regards,
Ben

 

[diggles]

I didn't mount my 180 t digitar on WRS mount because I think it a waste, unfortunately.

The same could be said about many lenses in a Cambo mount. Even though I'm unable to access the full image circle of the 120asph, and 180t with the WRS1600 I'm very happy with the combo.

 

[anyone]

Probably that is for another thread on its own, but I also converged to wides in Cambo mount (35XL,43XL, 72), the rest are Hasselblad V lenses. Longer digital view camera lenses are for the Linhof Techno.

 

[Alkibiades]

Thanks for the input, Paul. I would like to ask, do the 180/210 digitars really have IC large enough to cover 4x5 film? Are those relabeled analog designs, like the early apo sironar digital lenses from Rodenstock?

The 180/210 T are not relabeled analoge lenses as Apo Sironar digitals that are Apo Sironar S lenses.
The 210 T seems to share a mix of Symmar-s and Apo Componon- more or less- but develope new for digital use.
The 180 T is different, it is the only one 180m mm mounted in Copal 0 shutter, where all other 180 mm analoge lenses needs the bigger copal 0.
I would say that can cover 4x5 inch without problems, but why to use this lens for film? You cant get a better deal for film as going with Apo Symmar or Apo sironar-n for maybe 500 euro.