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thoughts on architectural with GFX, image circle and lens.

haihan

New member
hello guys, here's some thoughts while considering the Fujifilm GFX system base as a architectural and interior photographer. i am still on the 5D3, have tried 5DSR and seen the files of D800 and A7RII, but wish for a step further upgrade.

i believe the primary problems for Canon are; dynamic range, details, Canon's lack of a 35mm shift and 45mm shift is terrible. i have researched, and based on your comments and numbers, here's a dream system which i thought might be useful, please share your thoughts too:

focal length on 24x36 - focal length on 33x44 / image circle / comments

Canon - need to carry a Canon to stop down, unless there's an adapter to connect the brains

17mm - 13mm / 67.2mm / will not get clean 12mm shift, but excellent, gets darker on the corners, based on ALPA's FPS pdf
24mm - 18mm / 67.2mm / might not get 12mm shift, but excellent, gets darker on the corners, based on ALPA's FPS pdf and Yee Kim's Flickr images:
http://www.alpa.ch/_files/20131006_ALPA_FPS_low-rez.pdf
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kimyeesan/15569119763/in/album-72157644820175716/

Schneider PC TS - ultimate set up imho my images are primary created on the 24-50mm range so the 28mm and 50mm on 33x44 are the most important. need adapter to connect, but needs no electric connections.

28mm - 22mm / 72mm / definitely great, in theory for 12mm shift, but not any meticulous review around.
50mm - 39mm / 79.2mm / definitely great, in theory for 12mm shift
120mm - 94mm / 153mm / definitely great, in theory for 12mm shift

Hartblei
40mm - 31mm / no data / should be excellent too in theory for 12mm shift

//

i know there's also paths of going for Contax 645 lens, which also needs adapter to stop down, the 35mm is excellent (ref. Yee Kim's Flickr), also the Pentax 55mm and 120mm using Stephen's shift adapter, or Cambo which is really big. ultimately i wish it could be a small, good looking :p system.

what do you think?

han
 

dnercesian

New member
I could talk about this subject former because I shoot architecture/interiors for a living and am a gear head nerd at the same time. One thing I have learned over the years is that there are very few options out there for us that tend to check all the boxes, keeping in mind that I am considering taste and gear bias as well. I've tried it all though really, no joke. DSLRS, Mirrorless, adapters with tilt/shift lenses, tilt/shift adapters, tech cameras, view cameras...

Not to belittle resolution, but the king of all attributes sensor wise for my work is dynamic range. End of story. Well, there goes the Canon options. The thing that hurts here is that Canon makes some of the most excellent tilt/shift lenses. I always felt the 17mm was bit too wide for architectural, but I am sure it would be fine for real estate work, maybe even preferred since many agents actually think that cavernous look is great. The 24mm TS-E II is stellar! They have a 45mm and 90mm, and from my experience they were both solid, with the 90mm having the better optics.

So then I adapted these to the Sony A7 series cameras, which gave me the best of the lenses with great sensors and dynamic range. But this was not without issues, as movements would cause reflections from the inside of the adapter, even the latest/greatest. Flocking helped with this, but nothing ever brought it back to how things worked native. Then there was the occasional electronics hiccup that would cause me a headache as I would lose control of my aperture control. Ugh!!! I gave up on this setup.

Okay, I am getting way off topic, so I am going to try to reel it in.

Of the options you listed, all of which I considered back when I thought I might want a GFX (No longer an issue for me) I think the best bet is the Schneider 28mm PC TS. Keep in mind that this is just a guess though as it is only based on conjecture. I really like the fact that there are no electronics involved in that option, and that is a major factor for me. Adapter performance, I guess we will have to wait to see. But that is an expensive experiment to volunteer for in my opinion.

Speaking of money, my suggestion for an architectural setup of this expense is to skip the GFX. Currently I shoot on a Cambo WRS5000 with a Phase One IQ3100. This is obviously way more expensive, but I have also used the IQ150, which is the same as sensor as the GFX and worked very well for me, considering the live view and the gobs of dynamic range. Don't forget Capture One support, LCC, and the insanely lovely large format lenses. Even this setup configured sparingly would likely cost a little more than what you are trying to do, but it will flat out WORK.

I still shoot 35mm format as well, and have been trying out the Nikon 19mm PC-E on a D810. I am also going to try it on an SL with a Novoflex smart adapter, the thought of which rubs me the wrong way because of my adapter experiences, but I am a red dot junkie, so I have to try it. The 19mm is great by the way, and I much prefer it over the 17mm, but it is still a bit wide in my opinion.
 

marc aurel

New member
Given that 50MP 44x33 is already 3 years old, I would be inclined to pick the A7R-II route (cheap to upgrade once A7R-III is announced).

You could achieve 14mm wide angle with 5mm shift with a setup like this: Canon 11-24 coupled with A7R-II via Arca Mf2
Hi Voidshatter.
I have read a lot about this combination. But I have never seen an image with the shifted 11-24mm. I always suspected sharpness in the shifted corners is not what I look for, but maybe I am wrong. Is it on par with the Ts-E 24 II or the TS-E 17? If you could share images I would be thankful.
Another question: how do you correct that lens for distortion? Do you notify focal length and shifts? Is the distortion of the simple kind where you don't need a profile? Otherwise I would not know how to get straight lines straight.
 

ErikKaffehr

Active member
Hi,

Chris Barret uses the 11-24 Canon for architecture, why not ask him?

cb at christopherbarrett dot net

Best regards
Erik




Hi Voidshatter.
I have read a lot about this combination. But I have never seen an image with the shifted 11-24mm. I always suspected sharpness in the shifted corners is not what I look for, but maybe I am wrong. Is it on par with the Ts-E 24 II or the TS-E 17? If you could share images I would be thankful.
Another question: how do you correct that lens for distortion? Do you notify focal length and shifts? Is the distortion of the simple kind where you don't need a profile? Otherwise I would not know how to get straight lines straight.
 

NoBob

New member
Sure, just be clever where you place the guides - vertical, horizontal or arbitrary - to staighten out uneven distortion. Doesn't matter if lens was shifted or not.
 

voidshatter

New member
Hi Voidshatter.
I have read a lot about this combination. But I have never seen an image with the shifted 11-24mm. I always suspected sharpness in the shifted corners is not what I look for, but maybe I am wrong. Is it on par with the Ts-E 24 II or the TS-E 17? If you could share images I would be thankful.
Another question: how do you correct that lens for distortion? Do you notify focal length and shifts? Is the distortion of the simple kind where you don't need a profile? Otherwise I would not know how to get straight lines straight.
I have no experience with it. Based on talks I was told by others that the 11-24mm lens doesn't have much distortion, and is sharper than the 17mm TS-E.

As for my own tests, I can only confirm that the Rodenstock 23mm HR is sharper than the Canon 17mm TS-E, but not up to a margin to justify the cost difference. I prefer to shoot with the Rodenstock 23mm HR because it's easygoing for traditional filters. Distortion is corrected by Capture One if the amount of shift is recorded, but distortion is negligible most of the time.
 

marc aurel

New member
Sure, just be clever where you place the guides - vertical, horizontal or arbitrary - to staighten out uneven distortion. Doesn't matter if lens was shifted or not.
I am not sure if understand correctly. But your description sounds more like correcting for converging verticals, not distortion (in the sense of barrel or moustache distortion). Or have I misunderstood you?
Do you or anybody else here in the forum actually use this setup and can confirm by first hand experience that distortion on a shifted 11-24mm lens can be corrected?
 

voidshatter

New member
I am not sure if understand correctly. But your description sounds more like correcting for converging verticals, not distortion (in the sense of barrel or moustache distortion). Or have I misunderstood you?
Do you or anybody else here in the forum actually use this setup and can confirm by first hand experience that distortion on a shifted 11-24mm lens can be corrected?
As for the Rodenstock case, if I take a note of how much has been shifted while I shoot, I could use Capture One's built-in profiles to correct the distortion after I enter the shift data manually. It will automatically calculate which part of image circle of the lens was captured by the image and what kind of distortion needs to be corrected. This function is for distortion correction, not perspective keystone correction.

The Canon 11-24mm's profile is also inside Capture One, but I'm not sure whether it works for shift or not.

301.jpg
 

jerome_m

Member
There is the Cambo ACTUS-GFX.

Specifications
Size L / W / H:
152 x 115 x 171 mm
Weight:
1150 g
Front Tilt:
19 ° (+10/-9)
Rear Shift Vertical:
27mm (12/15)
Rear Shift Horizontal:
40mm (20/20)
 
I have no experience with it. Based on talks I was told by others that the 11-24mm lens doesn't have much distortion, and is sharper than the 17mm TS-E.

As for my own tests, I can only confirm that the Rodenstock 23mm HR is sharper than the Canon 17mm TS-E, but not up to a margin to justify the cost difference. I prefer to shoot with the Rodenstock 23mm HR because it's easygoing for traditional filters. Distortion is corrected by Capture One if the amount of shift is recorded, but distortion is negligible most of the time.
I use both with Sony A7rII: 11-24 on HCam and 17 mm- 24 mm II with metabones.
They both have their advantages.
11-24 allows me work without changing the lens, also use of 14 mm and 20 shifted.
I think I use 20 mm more than other, in some situations 24 mm is simply not wide enough, - (I like more 28-50 mm look- I dont like to stich). 14 mm shifted give me possibilty that no other system can, absolutly outstanding.
The courners at 11, 12, 14 mm are not as good, I wish it would be like at 16-17-20. I think at 20 mm this lens is at its best: 15 mm movements are possible and really good. The focusing must be done at app 11, sometimes it is not easy, I do then different shots. The focusing wit 24-17 shift lenses is at wide aperture afcourse much better, also distortion of the 24 is absolutly great. at the 11-24 the distortion is not so good like at 24 mm II but still very good ( dont forget it is a zoom lens) . is 11-24 better at the cournes than 17 mm? I dont know, my 17 mm is a very good copy ( my first was poor), I would say they are both very close.
Chromatic aberation are pretty strong on 11-14, this is maybe the biggest weakness of this lens, anyway you need Capture one for it.
I also use 40 mm IF Hartblei on Nikon 800 and 50 mm Mamiya shift.
I can imagine the 40 mm will be great on Fuji, but the lens allows only 10 mm movements, the mamiya have big image circle, better distortion, but it is not so sharp and have low contrast- post is needed.
I dont believe that it will happen but I would really like when Fuji would make a shift lens for the GFX.
 

craigosh

New member
I work with the Sony A7r and the 24mm ts-e on a metabones and Pentax 645 lenses on with a shift adapter. There are some quirks to the Metabones and the Canon glass but I can live with those. The Pentax glass I find is great, the 75 and 120 are a bit prone to flare, coming from the adapter, but hopefully my next go at flocking will fix that, but its easy enough to prevent by shading the lens anyway. I'm happy working round all of those issues. It's not like using the TS-e was completely free from flare issues on the 5dmkII anyway!

I've rented many a copy of the 17mm TS-e and found they all varied in quality. The first few where great, the last one I picked up was awful at the edges shifted past a few mm.

I'm interested in the Fuji, more for the dynamic range than the 50mpx, though that won't hurt. The actus looks great ( I tried one with the Sony), though I understand it won't give infinity with the EF glass on the Fuji version!
Probably pic up a Fotodiox adapter and give a GFX a go, when Calumet offer them for hire, add the cost of rental to jobs maybe.

Certainly looks to have some great potential. I want to try the P645 28-45 and 25mm with it.
 

kimyeesan

New member
hello guys, here's some thoughts while considering the Fujifilm GFX system base as a architectural and interior photographer. i am still on the 5D3, have tried 5DSR and seen the files of D800 and A7RII, but wish for a step further upgrade.

i believe the primary problems for Canon are; dynamic range, details, Canon's lack of a 35mm shift and 45mm shift is terrible. i have researched, and based on your comments and numbers, here's a dream system which i thought might be useful, please share your thoughts too:

focal length on 24x36 - focal length on 33x44 / image circle / comments

Canon - need to carry a Canon to stop down, unless there's an adapter to connect the brains

17mm - 13mm / 67.2mm / will not get clean 12mm shift, but excellent, gets darker on the corners, based on ALPA's FPS pdf
24mm - 18mm / 67.2mm / might not get 12mm shift, but excellent, gets darker on the corners, based on ALPA's FPS pdf and Yee Kim's Flickr images:
http://www.alpa.ch/_files/20131006_ALPA_FPS_low-rez.pdf
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kimyeesan/15569119763/in/album-72157644820175716/

Schneider PC TS - ultimate set up imho my images are primary created on the 24-50mm range so the 28mm and 50mm on 33x44 are the most important. need adapter to connect, but needs no electric connections.

28mm - 22mm / 72mm / definitely great, in theory for 12mm shift, but not any meticulous review around.
50mm - 39mm / 79.2mm / definitely great, in theory for 12mm shift
120mm - 94mm / 153mm / definitely great, in theory for 12mm shift

Hartblei
40mm - 31mm / no data / should be excellent too in theory for 12mm shift

//

i know there's also paths of going for Contax 645 lens, which also needs adapter to stop down, the 35mm is excellent (ref. Yee Kim's Flickr), also the Pentax 55mm and 120mm using Stephen's shift adapter, or Cambo which is really big. ultimately i wish it could be a small, good looking :p system.

what do you think?

han
Well, I have been using the TS-E 17 on my Malaysia trip this time. I can get about 12mm shift, but with some very strange vignette and cut off at left right corner (when shifted to the max on left, you get vignette on the right... and cut off from image circle on the right.)


3 images stitched


1 image, composed with 65:24.

This is the main reason that I go for the GFX, because of this XPAN crop ratio...

Other shots I did with the TS-E 17 was:


I have also acquire the Cambo Actus GFX, and use it with assortment of Enlarging lens as well as Contax 645 and SK Digital 28mm f/2.8 L.

The SK Digital 28mm will give slight movement cause the image circle is about 60mm or so. The Contax 645 has some pretty good shift capability, but it has some CA as well which is easily fix. Those enlarging lens is very fun, and the widest you can go is about 60mm WA rodenstock, that lens covers 6x7 so it's more than enough for GFX.


SK Digital 28mm f/2.8L


Rodenstock APO Rodagon 80mm f/4, 3 image stitch


Contax 645 Distagon 35mm f/3.5
 
Last edited:

daf

New member
Hi Kimyeesan,
All sample from tse that i've seen were pretty poor in image quality ... with strong smearing and sharpness falloff ... what do you feel/think ?
Did you find any good dadapted lenses which are playing well?
Would you be kind enough to share some raw or full size jpeg?
thanks




Well, I have been using the TS-E 17 on my Malaysia trip this time. I can get about 12mm shift, but with some very strange vignette and cut off at left right corner (when shifted to the max on left, you get vignette on the right... and cut off from image circle on the right.)


3 images stitched


1 image, composed with 65:24.

This is the main reason that I go for the GFX, because of this XPAN crop ratio...

Other shots I did with the TS-E 17 was:


I have also acquire the Cambo Actus GFX, and use it with assortment of Enlarging lens as well as Contax 645 and SK Digital 28mm f/2.8 L.

The SK Digital 28mm will give slight movement cause the image circle is about 60mm or so. The Contax 645 has some pretty good shift capability, but it has some CA as well which is easily fix. Those enlarging lens is very fun, and the widest you can go is about 60mm WA rodenstock, that lens covers 6x7 so it's more than enough for GFX.


SK Digital 28mm f/2.8L


Rodenstock APO Rodagon 80mm f/4, 3 image stitch


Contax 645 Distagon 35mm f/3.5
 

archivue

New member
Speaking of money, my suggestion for an architectural setup of this expense is to skip the GFX.
+1 !

get a second hand Arca RM3D or Alpa or Cambo and a refurbished IQ150

or get a D810 (or wait for the D820 ) and 19 PC-E + 45 PC-E + 85 PC-E

The nikon solution isn't the best IQ on the planet but so easy to use and carry

Buying new gear to adapt stuff... so much money for with it is... and no capture one support !

Still the GFX is a really good solution if you don't need movements.
 

kimyeesan

New member
Hi Kimyeesan,
All sample from tse that i've seen were pretty poor in image quality ... with strong smearing and sharpness falloff ... what do you feel/think ?
Did you find any good dadapted lenses which are playing well?
Would you be kind enough to share some raw or full size jpeg?
thanks
Well, when you are playing with TSE17, you are really just wanting that FoV, not really for extreme IQ. So I don't really mind. That photo of the Shanghai Tower can only be taken with TSE17 with full shift in 1 shots... So, I think if you really want that view, you have to use it.

You can look at full rez image at my flickr page:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kimyeesan/
 
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