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How much more money do you think he makes if you buy? My guess is not a lot.
Perhaps your comment was troll-ish and deserved push back. The fact remains we are not here to attack others.
Now back to the Leica SL...
Could you please go more in details of this?s.
As for sharpness of the A7rII. I've noticed suspect behaviour at 100% viewing magnification (mostly with M glass. 50APO even). I do not notice this with the SL. Though to be honest, the only CMOS that looks good at 100% to my eye (both on screen and print) is the M240.. But the MP makes up for the difference in "quality" so take it as you will.
Could you please go more in details of this?
Thanks
Tell me about it! I've been there and done that - it never helps, and results are always up for interpretation (and differences small enough to encourage them)I hesitate to get into detail over what I've found.. It will start a Sony vs Leica bashing session. And then I'll have to run a bunch of tests to prove it. And then I'll have to fight with a bunch of people who disagree with my methodology and it really won't be worth my time/effort.
I find this really strange - I'm deeply impressed with the files (similarly those of the Q). I guess this stuff ends up very subjective (what do you use for processing?).I'll add that I'm no longer for or against Sony/Leica... The SL has severely diminished my love for Leica. And it's weird to say this because ergonomically, it's one of the most fantastic cameras.. A joy to use. Second only to the M. I actually really enjoy the SL in use, I was just expecting something different sitting in front of the computer, staring at the files (something cleaner). Maybe it needs a firmware update, maybe I need to curb my expectations.. Who knows?
Let's hope nobody has the time. . . .Anyway, I'm not going to get into more detail about the A7rII vs X-Leica camera. Sorry it's just not constructive.
Someone else who has more time to fight with people over the results is welcome to do the testing
Steve Huff is possessed by an Evil Spirit! This explains everything.Steve Huff's site is pretty predictable IMO. He uses exactly the same tactics as Ken Rockwell, praising some things through the roof (Sony, Olympus, Leica) while bashing others (Fuji, Panasonic).
Plus adding once in a while some controversy which leads new people to his site. This thread is probably quite good for him
And if you don't agree with him he will block you as Amin says, even if you are not being insulting, I have exactly the same experience...
And I will keep my personal opinion about his other website to myself. Feel free to judge for yourself...:
I was attacked by an Evil Spirit or Entity. See the video. | Huff Paranormal
Excellent summary of the current dogma. Well said!So people get more than they need for 2% of their "maybe/you never know" work at the detriment of the other 98% of use.
Not sure he is the only one possessed.Steve Huff is possessed by an Evil Spirit! This explains everything.
Like others have said Steve blocked me from his site when my comment didn't line up with his marketing messaging. This was about the same time Seal was writing posts on his site calling anyone who didn't use the M9 fools.Hey, bucko, that's exactly what you implied. Perhaps you need to crawl out from beneath GetDPI's skirt and contact Steve Huff directly?
Additional Personal Thoughts On The SL:
:lecture:Not all that long ago Leica had most all of it's golden eggs in one basket ... The M system. It had to abandon the R system for financial reasons at the time, not to mention that the DMR was a collaboration between Imacon and Leica, and Imacon merged with Hasselblad effectively ending the collaboration. The M was difficult to convert to digital because of the sensor technology required ... The M8 was a cropped frame, lower meg, IR challenged, wobbly legged entry at best. That single basket of eggs showed Leica's vulnerability ... (history also showed how important faithful Leica Rangefinder customers were in helping bridge the gap ... a rangefinder is a rangefinder is a rangefinder!)
Enter the White Knight ... Kaufman Ka$h and vision.
Leica begins diversifying with bigger cameras and smaller cameras while continuing to evolve it's main M system.
The SL is just another in that line of diversified thought aimed directly at a select audience ... not everyone:lecture:
So it is natural that there will be those enthusiasts for whom it fits a need and a certain pride of ownership, and those who question it ... i.e..; "Two different views on the Leica SL".
Leica has avoided the megapixel race to the loud opposition of those who place a lot of credence on "more is better". The FF 18 meg M9 CCD only evolved to 24 meg CMOS. The S has stayed 37.8 meg through 3 iterations of the camera including the latest CMOS version. I happen to agree with them.
So a FF 24 meg SL is fine with me, and probably fits the "real world needs" of most photographers even though they would NEVER admit it.:grin: IMO, "Coulda/Woulda/Shoulda" has way to much sway on the decision process these days. So people get more than they need for 2% of their "maybe/you never know" work at the detriment of the other 98% of use. But that's just me I guess.
Leica is slow. New Leica systems aren't for type AAA personalities who have their zipper down before they get to the urinal. Early adopters of the S system needed the patience of Job. The S is a dual shutter camera, but the CS lenses took forever to be available. I'll probably have a beard to the floor before this SL system has a good range of AF Leica SL dedicated optics.
However, I could easily put this camera to work today. All I need for weddings/event and corporate assignments is a 24 meg SL camera and this 24-90 zoom with Leica's new SF40 or SF64 speed light.
It wouldn't be a practical financial choice, nor a responsible one (being so new) ... but that never stopped me:ROTFL:
- Marc
Tell me about it! I've been there and done that - it never helps, and results are always up for interpretation (and differences small enough to encourage them)
I find this really strange - I'm deeply impressed with the files (similarly those of the Q). I guess this stuff ends up very subjective (what do you use for processing?).
I quite agree with you about ergonomics and use though.
Let's hope nobody has the time. . . .
Are the files different from the Leica Q files? I really like the Leica Q.Jonathan, I'm really unsure what I dislike about the SL. I'm not trying to be difficult, or to have a contrary view. I'm just not happy with the files. Very similar reason to why I'm unhappy with the Sony sensors I've used thus far.
Wow!Steve Huff's site is pretty predictable IMO.
...
And I will keep my personal opinion about his other website to myself. Feel free to judge for yourself...:
I was attacked by an Evil Spirit or Entity. See the video. | Huff Paranormal
Jonathan, I'm really unsure what I dislike about the SL. I'm not trying to be difficult, or to have a contrary view. I'm just not happy with the files. Very similar reason to why I'm unhappy with the Sony sensors I've used thus far.
It's almost as if, I've used a better sensor in optimum light. But then I'm given new sensors that aren't as good in optimum light, but are good in other situations... Almost like a trade off of sorts. It doesn't feel bad, but like I'm trading something more important for something less important.
I sort of felt that way about switching from the M9 to the M240. But the cleanliness of the sensor made it acceptable to have a less contrasty OOC raw and less appealing colors. But now that I'm so use to the M240 colors, I know something's missing when I use other sensors. I use to think I was being a brand snob... I tried to convince myself of this by buying Sony cameras and spending $$$ on profiling hardware/software. Trying my best to get things to look the same. But in the end, I couldn't jive with Sony sensors (I couldn't even get the colors to match). And it's a similar feeling with this SL. Maybe time will fix it, but in order for that to happen I have to abandon my M240 cameras.. Like sell them all off (similar to what I did with the M9). And I'm not sure if I'm ready to do that for a camera like the SL.
The S-006 is different. It doesn't feel like anything else I've used. I wouldn't say it feels like film, I wouldn't say it feels like digital. I would say it feels like unique technology. Whereas the S-007 feels like digital (good quality digital, but digital).
On another note. I brought my SL out with me to an event tonight (personal, I wasn't working). Usually I bring an M.. It's a cool fashion accessory. People talk to me about it. People smile when I take photos of them (even if I don't know them). Girls and guys totally dig the M-P.
Tonight was different. I felt almost embarrassed to bring the SL+M lens to my eye. People looked away. Nobody smiled at me.. Worst candid pictures ever. Strangely awkward night for me. Though on the flip side.. I walked around with the SL+zoom the other day. And I think everyone thought I was a tourist. Nobody batted an eye when I shot them with my big zoom lens. They kinda just minded their own business... But it still didn't feel as raw and candid as it does when I'm shooting with the M.. But it wasn't like tonights bad experience.
Wow, this thread is still going. Been out past the "back forty" and back again; I have no idea where all the bile and nonsense centered around this camera is coming from.
For me: Two months on using the Leica SL (almost exclusively with the R lenses I bought it to use with) and I'm delighted with it. The DNG files are excellent and process beautifully in LR6.3 (and even in Apple's Photos app). Even the JPEGs are right in there.
I don't see much difference in the quality of the files compared to the M-P typ 240 ... I had that out over the weekend and the exact same technique used in processing them processes the SL files perfectly (as in, I made a preset from an M-P file and applied it to a similar subject matter SL file to get a nearly identical result). And, as I've said before, I like what comes out of the M-P much more than what came out of other cameras when using these lenses. The SL goes beyond the M-P.
I like the ergonomics and controls of the SL, even moreso than the ergonomics of the M-P. There's enough grip and body space for my fingers to use the camera the way I always used a 35mm film SLR ... I'm not constantly dodging buttons, knobs, and dials (or hitting them inadvertently). Fitted with 24/35/50/90/135 mm lenses, it's very much like carrying my old favorite Nikon F3.
For my photography, 24 Mpixel is enough, if not already more than enough. End of discussion.
The only thing that I haven't quite absorbed into my consciousness yet is the SL's exposure behavior with AutoISO. On the SL, the AutoISO setting for minimum exposure is a hard limit: It does not override and run a longer exposure when illumination is low. I have to remember to switch to a fixed ISO setting in very low light, and I often forget still. And then I forget to switch it back to AutoISO. Eh, I'll get it eventually; it hasn't been much of a problem in my shooting.
I haven't used it with flash yet, I haven't done anything with video yet, and I haven't taken the dedicated 24-90 lens out much yet either. I have spent a lot of time enjoying it set to square format with the ultra-wide 15mm and 19mm lenses: it reminds me so much of shooting with the Hasselblad SWC that way, but with accurate TTL focusing.
I have to say that, at this point, I couldn't care less whether anyone else on the planet likes the SL or whether anyone else's favorite camera du jour performs better or worse. With two months and a couple thousand exposures worth of using it behind me, I like the SL: it's the right camera for me, and it makes beautiful images for me. If I could have only one camera, it's the one I'd choose and I'd regret nothing about tossing the rest (although I would surely miss my Polaroid SX-70s).
Thank you, Leica, for producing the SL.
G