Using a Rodenstock view camera lens on a DSLR

[hypermanual]

Hello everyone,

I would like to ask, if it's possible to use for example, a Rodenstock 55mm Apo Grandagon/Apo Sironar Digital lens in its original helical mount (and either copal shutter or aperture stop body) on a DSLR, with an adapter that will allow some shift movements and infinity focus. If so, where I can find such adapters?

All the best

 

[JeffK]

Not sure about the helical mount, but if you have a large format lens with shutter, that can fit copal 0 or 1, then check out the Cambo Actus Mini, G, etc...

Contact @Steve Hendrix at CI. Probably one of the most knowledgeable folks around for that platform.

 

[4x5Australian]

Introduction to the Cambo Actus: https://www.cambo.com/en/actus-series/

 

[Cambo]

Adapting large format lenses directly to camera bodies would require dedicated adapters for every single camera/lens combination. Flange-Focal distance of camera and lens dictate the height of the adapter. Every focal length would require its own helical. Theoretically possible for Mirrorless - use on DSLRs would be limited to longer focal lengths - but in reality hardly feasible.

It's a lot easier to make adapters for medium format lenses, since most of these already have a helical and your working with the same flange-focal distance for the complete range. Hence the many adapters for these kind of lenses.

Richard

 

[Paul Spinnler]

I can only recommend the Grandagon 65 to be used with digital sensors – the lens is very cheap used and blew me away. I heard the 55 is a lower performer, but can't give a first hand impression. I got mine for a few hundred bucks - late nineties version and use it on a bellows camera similar to the Cambo cameras with a P1 back.

 

[TimoK]

I agree. You can't use 55mm Grandagon with DSRL because it's flange focal distance is too short. It's possible to use with mirrorless cameras, but I don't know other kind of adapters than the view cameras like Actus and Arca. Maybe Novoflex Ballpro also works. Look at these tables. https://www.captureintegration.com/cambo-actus-lens-compatibility-table/

I used Apo Grandagon 55 for a short time, I did not like it. In this picture Actus/Sony is focused to infinity. There's 5-6 mm free space between lens and Actus' rear standard

 

[P. Chong]

looks like there is not much room for movements.

I agree. You can't use 55mm Grandagon with DSRL because it's flange focal distance is too short. It's possible to use with mirrorless cameras, but I don't know other kind of adapters than the view cameras like Actus and Arca. Maybe Novoflex Ballpro also works. Look at these tables. https://www.captureintegration.com/cambo-actus-lens-compatibility-table/

I used Apo Grandagon 55 for a short time, I did not like it. In this picture Actus/Sony is focused to infinity. There's 5-6 mm free space between lens and Actus' rear standard

View attachment 198729

 

[Alkibiades]

I can only recommend the Grandagon 65 to be used with digital sensors – the lens is very cheap used and blew me away. I heard the 55 is a lower performer, but can't give a first hand impression. I got mine for a few hundred bucks - late nineties version and use it on a bellows camera similar to the Cambo cameras with a P1 back.

Grandagon-N 4,5-65 mm and 4,5-75 mm and amazing lenses for less money. you have no problems with strong LCC and compatibility as with 55 mm and thay are even sharper.
Use the last green line or earlier MC versions , there are all great. I tested the 65 mm even with the apo digitar 60 xl / that is the best lens in this range/ and on results is hard to say what lens made what picture.

 

[JeffK]

@Alkibiades am I understanding that the 65 grandagon is a better quality lens than a 55mm APO-Sironar? Is that including the 55mm APO-Sironar Digital?

 

[Alkibiades]

@Alkibiades am I understanding that the 65 grandagon is a better quality lens than a 55mm APO-Sironar? Is that including the 55mm APO-Sironar Digital?

I would not say that the one lens has a better quality- this is not the case- but that the lens design of a smaller image circle is much better for digital use. So here the Grandagon-N 4,5/65mm, 75mm, 90 mm have smaller image angle of 105° where the Apo Grandagon ( Apo Sironar Digital) has larger image angle: 110° for 55 mm , 45 mm and even 120° for 35 mm.
here the wider lens is the less sharp and the longer much more sharp. The 55 is the sharpest of the apo grandagon line and a more advanced lens as the grandagon-N, but the advatage in the film world is the disadvantage in the digital use. The analog and digital relabeld versions of the 55 mm are pretty the same lens. The differance in this line is more the right calibration than a real difference- there is indeed non.

The smaller image circle allows better sharpness and resolution power. Therefore especially Schneider reborn the older lensdesign of classic Super Angulon with even 100° as better suitable for digital use as the Super Angulon XL 110-120° with the extreme large image angle and image circle that was an advantage for analoge Film but a total disadvantage for digital use where the chips are much smaller and with much higher resolution. So the Apo Digitar 47 is the reborn older Super Angulon 47, not the -for 4x5 inch film better XL 120° version.

 

[JeffK]

@Alkibiades for the 45/55 range, what’s your thoughts on the best Rodenstock film lens that’s suitable for a 645 digital back? The digaron-w’s are too expensive now so let’s exclude those.

I’ve read feedback that the apo-sironar digital in the 35/45/55 aren’t giving results as good as the longer ranges.

 

[Alkibiades]

@Alkibiades for the 45/55 range, what’s your thoughts on the best Rodenstock film lens that’s suitable for a 645 digital back? The digaron-w’s are too expensive now so let’s exclude those.

I’ve read feedback that the apo-sironar digital in the 35/45/55 aren’t giving results as good as the longer ranges.

from 35-45-55 the 55 is the best.
but better is the longer Grandagon-N 4,5/65 mm, 4.5/75 mm or even the big 4,5/90 mm.
At longer lenses the whole Apo Sironar -S ( with ED Glass) line is the best option- thay were simply relebled to the Apo Sironar Digital.
The Macro lens 120 mm with the orange strip ( also own ED Glass) is the same as the digital labeled .
The Apo Sironar W are also superior.
The white strip line: Apo Sironar N can also be used, some of them are really good.
in the 45-55 range there is one special lens but from Zeiss: Zeiss biogon 4/53 mm. It is a superior lens.

 

[JeffK]

from 35-45-55 the 55 is the best.
but better is the longer Grandagon-N 4,5/65 mm, 4.5/75 mm or even the big 4,5/90 mm.
At longer lenses the whole Apo Sironar -S ( with ED Glass) line is the best option- thay were simply relebled to the Apo Sironar Digital.
The Macro lens 120 mm with the orange strip ( also own ED Glass) is the same as the digital labeled .
The Apo Sironar W are also superior.
The white strip line: Apo Sironar N can also be used, some of them are really good.
in the 45-55 range there is one special lens but from Zeiss: Zeiss biogon 4/53 mm. It is a superior lens.

Thank you for the detailed information.

 

[TimoK]

looks like there is not much room for movements.

So it looks, but all needed movements are still possible. There is not much room for the standard bellows. It is uncomfortably tight at the max shift. I guess the short bellows would help.
At the extreme shift ( 15mm + 20mm ) there is also some vignetting from Actus camera mount or from Sony lens mount. A little vignetting from bellows too some times.



Grandagon 55mm, Actus, 15mm fall + 20mm left shift. The light fall off and color casts are remarkable.

 

[Alkibiades]

So it looks, but all needed movements are still possible. There is not much room for the standard bellows. It is uncomfortably tight at the max shift. I guess the short bellows would help.
At the extreme shift ( 15mm + 20mm ) there is also some vignetting from Actus camera mount or from Sony lens mount. A little vignetting from bellows too some times.

View attachment 198905

Grandagon 55mm, Actus, 15mm fall + 20mm left shift. The light fall off and color casts are remarkable.

this color cast is not a problem for capture one or phocus, it can be removed very easy. you should also use a centerfilter for the 55 mm. this will reduce the light fall.

 

[FloatingLens]

but better is the longer Grandagon-N 4,5/65 mm, 4.5/75 mm or even the big 4,5/90 mm.

Will the same be true for the lesser version (f6.8) of the 75mm grandagon?

 

[Alkibiades]

Will the same be true for the lesser version (f6.8) of the 75mm grandagon?

No.
The 6,8 has much easier lensdesign and the opimal Aperture is 22. Maybe you can get usable Results with it Bit the 4,5 line is opticly better

 

[TimoK]

I have that 6,8/75mm (Sinar rebranded) Grandagon N. It's called Sinaron-w MC. It was produced in late nineteens.
The f/6,8 lenses are simpler than 4,5 versions. F6,8 versions are six element designs when F4,5 lenses where made of eight elements.

I did not care of aperture recommendations of that time. It was film time.In that time recommended aperture by Rodenstock and Schneider for all lenses was F22, except for Apo-Ronar or G-Glaron it was F32.

Interestingly, a couple of months ago I made a comparison between my 6,8/75mm Sinaron-W and my 4/80 Apo-Digitar by Schneider.
I made the test shots in my "real condition", in the forest. I could not find the winner because I made so much misfocusing errors. I think I must do this comparison again, but in my first comparison I did not find the winner. Both looked as sharp when they where in focus.

 

[RodK]

Will the same be true for the lesser version (f6.8) of the 75mm grandagon?

This is a very difficult lens to focus compared to the 4.5 model.