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Thread: monochrome availability

  1. #1
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    monochrome availability

    any of these bad boys in stock?

    long wait lists for sure?

    any idea if the inventory will catch demand or does history say it going to be a while before they are readily available?

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    Senior Member segedi's Avatar
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    Re: monochrome availability

    I read somewhere that there was only 500 being made, so I'm thinking long lists...

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    Re: monochrome availability

    They seem to be coming in reasonably steadily into the UK. One dealer had two in at the end of last week and has another (now spoken for) arriving in a few days time. If you are desperate you might want to try some of the less well known EU dealers.

    I'm not convinced by the "only 500 made" that seems to be doing the rounds of the internet. The source of that claim appears to be a dealer rather than anything that has come from Leica.

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    Re: monochrome availability

    is it a pain to buy from uk dealers from US?

    for b&w, will the new "M" equal the monochrome's performance or best it?

    guesses?

    maybe just wait for the new "M"?

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    Re: monochrome availability

    Barely available in the U.S. I doubt the 500 count limit...I am waiting patiently for mine. Only 2 have been delivered in the Seattle area to date.
    Ashwin Rao
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    Re: monochrome availability

    You have to enjoy the information that comes from dealers . Leica has historical produced about 1000 M products a month and recently increased that with the M9 about 50% . So you can assume that they need to be making something? Lets say they are back to 1000 as they retool for the changes to the M10 .

    The M10 does not appear to be in production yet ..from statements at Photokina ..they might not even be in beta .

    The M9 and M9P surely must be out of production (who would buy them new ) . So its the MONO and the M-E . You can guess at the production rate ..factories don t sit idle long .

    Once the M10 gets rolling ..do you expect many MONO s ? I wouldn t ....so you should get a flurry of new MONO between now and year end and then maybe a long wait .

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    Re: monochrome availability

    I agree Roger that Leica should be able to substantially increase Monochrom production now. Dealers are still stocked with M9s and M9-Ps, even at the discounted prices.

    It will be very interesting to see how the new M-E with it's lower price does in the market. I would imagine that there will be some people who would rather purchase a discounted M9 or M9P than an M-E, before NOS is depleted. Taking away the frame preview lever on the M-E is very disappointing to see.

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    Re: monochrome availability

    Had confirmation at Photokina that most US dealers got one copy of MM in first batch. That is slim to me, but seemed to be the case.

    Also, dealers not getting them in France. Leica Rep from France at Photokina confirmed any order made now would be a very LONG wait.

    Considering that not one Leica person I talked with had seen an M in a customer's hands until mine showed up, told me deliveries are slow, slow, slow. All the logic above makes sense, but where are they going? To the UK only? Those are the only ones I hear about.

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    Re: monochrome availability

    A friend in Dubai just got one, which was the second delivery for that dealer.

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    Re: monochrome availability

    Please ask you dealer what the H%^* they are making . In August they slow down for vacations ..this year I understood they keep going . So if you went to Solms today what would they be making ? They can t piss away millions of dollars of production capacity . OK so what is ?

    M10 doesn t seem to be done ..maybe some prototypes being made .

    M9/M9P ..can t buy this one .

    M-E ...quite possible but there isn t a great clamoring for this camera . There are too many deals for used M9/M9P bodies .

    MONO..for which there seems to be a decent backlog .

    The MONO is the horse Leica will ride until the M10 is available . They have a whole schedule of Leica Akademie shows in the USA .

    But they have to make a few to have a market . So lets hope your dealer is wrong .

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    Re: monochrome availability

    Can confirm another arriving to UK dealer.

    I agree with Roger that Leica must be using the production capacity for something and the M-E doesn't seem to be a camera that is creating much of a buzz. I suppose it is possible that Leica consider that the M is beyond the prototype stage – at least from a hardware perspective – and are busy ramping up production of a large stock of bodies that will be flashed with the production firmware when that is finalised in early 2013 but my guess is that Leica are not at that stage yet. The absence of performance proofs, etc. at Photokina suggests to me that the M is still someway from serial production.

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    Re: monochrome availability

    Received mine yesterday! I'm enjoying the challenge.
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    Re: monochrome availability

    Roger-To one point. Got confirmation in Europe that they DID NOT work through the August holiday period to produce MMono's. So that is another internet rumor I guess.

    It was mentioned at roll out evening that many people worked tirelessly for 6 months to put together the Leica booth at Photokina. Cannot believe that took production people away from that effort, but it must have taken big efforts from every level of the company. Just think how many people t took to glue in the SD cards into the new M model.

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    Re: monochrome availability

    Quote Originally Posted by StephenPatterson View Post
    A friend in Dubai just got one, which was the second delivery for that dealer.
    Yeah, it was a pretty snap decision for me, seeing that the next expected shipment that has an MM in it would be in Feb/Mar 2013. Still, no regrets, it really does deliver even more sharpness and the high ISO performance is nothing short of impressive (beats out my X100 for sure). Files even look good on the crappy LCD.

    Here are some test shots - I'm not labelling them to see if you guys can tell the difference







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    Re: monochrome availability

    Something else to consider - from what I suspect, the MM might be produced in far smaller quantities than the M-E or the new M.

    Put yourself in Leica's shoes as a business owner - you have finite resources, and you need to allocate resources to producing

    - the new M (Type 240) which is a highly anticipated camera that is supposed to appeal to a larger audience

    - the M-E which is targeted at people who want to get into the M system without breaking the bank, and

    - the MM which is really an exotic camera. Chris Weeks basically put it out there last night when he said that these were basically enthusiast cameras and no working professional would bother with one. While I can see people like us wanting one (an MM), I can somehow see more people demanding the new M and the M-E

    Also, the M-E might be more help to Leica than we think - if more people buy into the system, there's an increased demand for lenses and accessories, and I suspect Leica does make a pretty penny off these things - read: profitability and good margins is good business. This would hopefully jumpstart a Leica resurgence, seeing that many people out there have bought into the retro rangefinder trend. Guess what the X100 and X Pro 1 look like?
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    Re: monochrome availability

    Quote Originally Posted by algrove View Post
    Roger-To one point. Got confirmation in Europe that they DID NOT work through the August holiday period to produce MMono's. So that is another internet rumor I guess.

    It was mentioned at roll out evening that many people worked tirelessly for 6 months to put together the Leica booth at Photokina. Cannot believe that took production people away from that effort, but it must have taken big efforts from every level of the company. Just think how many people t took to glue in the SD cards into the new M model.
    I think there were only 12 new Ms.

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    Re: monochrome availability

    Ghoonk,

    From the quick look, the 1st full frame image you posted was from the MM...better DR, smoother tonal gradations, less noise and more.

    Looking at the LR crops, it's reversed, the 1st crop is from the M9 and 2nd from the MM. The MM obviously has all the benifits I mentioned but also superior resolution and lower noise resulting in revealing detail that's obscured with the M9.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: monochrome availability

    That's right, Dave

    That's why i didn't label them, so no preconceptions. I have a bunch of shots coming up soon, will share in a bit
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    Re: monochrome availability

    oooh, found an interesting glitch

    The lens info isn't being captured in the M Monochrom EXIF. No automatic lens profile applied in LR4.1. Firmware 0.017
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    Re: monochrome availability

    Quote Originally Posted by ghoonk View Post
    That's right, Dave

    That's why i didn't label them, so no preconceptions. I have a bunch of shots coming up soon, will share in a bit

    Ohhhh, do I win a Monochrom? OK, how about a monochrom brochure...LOL!

    Actually interesting comparison that does an excellent job of delineating some of the image differences and characteristics between the two cameras.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: monochrome availability

    Why does a camera have to "make a buzz" to be a successful seller? The M-E is a solid, known quantity.. a slightly simplified M9.. that I'm sure will sell well to the 95%-plus rangefinder enthusiasts who don't waste their time debating minutiae on the internet and just want a good new Leica M at a decent price to make their photographs with. Many people simply don't care about the bleeding edge features of the new M and want to buy new with a warranty.
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    Re: monochrome availability

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Ohhhh, do I win a Monochrom? OK, how about a monochrom brochure...LOL!

    Actually interesting comparison that does an excellent job of delineating some of the image differences and characteristics between the two cameras.

    Dave (D&A)
    A Monochrom brochure? There's one? I need to go back and bug my dealer for one. Apparently, they've got me down for the new M as well when it hits in Jan next year, but until I see actual reviews, I'm going to hold off.
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    Re: monochrome availability

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Why does a camera have to "make a buzz" to be a successful seller? The M-E is a solid, known quantity.. a slightly simplified M9.. that I'm sure will sell well to the 95%-plus rangefinder enthusiasts who don't waste their time debating minutiae on the internet and just want a good new Leica M at a decent price to make their photographs with. Many people simply don't care about the bleeding edge features of the new M and want to buy new with a warranty.
    Funny you should mention that - I was just having a debate with a fellow shooter earlier on this point, and he said that truth be told, a good photographer would do just as well with an X Pro 1

    There's something challenging and personal about shooting with the M, and while there are good alternatives out there, it boils down to choice
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    Re: monochrome availability

    Quote Originally Posted by ghoonk View Post
    A Monochrom brochure? There's one? I need to go back and bug my dealer for one. Apparently, they've got me down for the new M as well when it hits in Jan next year, but until I see actual reviews, I'm going to hold off.
    Yep, there's a Monochrome brochure. As nice is it is, I'd much have the actual camera as my prize for identifying your images correctly. OK, where do I pick it up

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: monochrome availability

    Quote Originally Posted by ghoonk View Post
    Funny you should mention that - I was just having a debate with a fellow shooter earlier on this point, and he said that truth be told, a good photographer would do just as well with an X Pro 1
    But the whole point about the M is tha rangefinder focusing. And the X pro 1 doesn't have that. Added to which it has a cropped sensor and doesn't do we'll with the best M lenses.
    It's like saying that. Truth be told. A good photographer would do as we'll with a Canon 5D.

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: monochrome availability

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    Yep, there's a Monochrome brochure. As nice is it is, I'd much have the actual camera as my prize for identifying your images correctly. OK, where do I pick it up

    Dave (D&A)
    it does have bugs, you know

    I'm wondering how this is going to play with IR imaging
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    Re: monochrome availability

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    But the whole point about the M is tha rangefinder focusing. And the X pro 1 doesn't have that. Added to which it has a cropped sensor and doesn't do we'll with the best M lenses.
    It's like saying that. Truth be told. A good photographer would do as we'll with a Canon 5D.
    Yeah, it's just a different way of shooting, nothing right or wrong about it. By the way, have you noticed that the MM info display shows the correct lens info (e.g. 50/2) in the Info screen and the lens info is correctly showing in the EXIF but it's not showing up in LR4.1?
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    Re: monochrome availability

    Quote Originally Posted by ghoonk View Post
    Funny you should mention that - I was just having a debate with a fellow shooter earlier on this point, and he said that truth be told, a good photographer would do just as well with an X Pro 1

    There's something challenging and personal about shooting with the M, and while there are good alternatives out there, it boils down to choice
    With all respect for the x-pro1 and knowing a good photographer can take good images with allmost everything - I do find that there is a clear differece between x-pro1 images and M9 and MM images.
    How much comes from the lenses and how much from the sensor I dont know (I guess from both).
    I have shot both systems for some time now and while I like the xpro1 for the AF and high ISO capability, and while it can produce great files I find it does not reach the "depth" of images from the M9. If that little tiny difference is worth the price difference....hard to answer.

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    Re: monochrome availability

    That was my point too, but frankly, I couldn't care less what other people shoot. I shoot for me, so my choice of camera is mine alone
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    Re: monochrome availability

    There is one current listing on ebay.de for 6,800 Euros plus shipping (within Germany).

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    Re: monochrome availability

    Quote Originally Posted by ghoonk View Post
    it does have bugs, you know

    I'm wondering how this is going to play with IR imaging
    10 to 12 stops of exposure increase. Not really practical.

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    Re: monochrome availability

    Quote Originally Posted by ghoonk View Post
    oooh, found an interesting glitch

    The lens info isn't being captured in the M Monochrom EXIF. No automatic lens profile applied in LR4.1. Firmware 0.017
    I'm assuming that this is because LR hasn't gotten around to doing a release that recognizes the EXIF data.

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    Re: monochrome availability

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    There is one current listing on ebay.de for 6,800 Euros plus shipping (within Germany).
    Someone just listed one on the B&S section for USD10,900!
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    Re: monochrome availability

    Bet it's gone within 3-4 days unless a cheaper one shows up. I know of one that will be for sale in the US, slightly used with like 2500 actuations, never registered, never downloaded software. Probably will go for a decent price, not absurd.

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    Re: monochrome availability

    Just got mine after a long wait. I wouldn't be suprised if they start to trickle in in time for the holidays..after all, the M follows quickly in Jan/Feb, so they need something to sell for the shopping season....other than M-E's....
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    Re: monochrome availability

    Congratulations Ashwin! Say, can you loan a brother...
    Brad Husick

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    Re: monochrome availability

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    I'm assuming that this is because LR hasn't gotten around to doing a release that recognizes the EXIF data.
    Fingers crossed - LR4.2 just out. Still not showing the lens info in EXIF
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    Re: monochrome availability

    Quote Originally Posted by ghoonk View Post
    Fingers crossed - LR4.2 just out. Still not showing the lens info in EXIF
    ?? For my copy of LR 4.2 see below:



    When you click "enable profile corrections" the fields fill in with the correct lens data.
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    Re: monochrome availability

    Hey, you're right - this wasn't happening with 4.1, but it's populating the field correctly in 4.2!

    The Lens field usually coms just below Model, but it's still not showing in the metadata. No matter, this is better than nothing! Thanks, Woody!
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  40. #40
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    Re: monochrome availability

    check at ama***

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