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Thread: Phase One +Back vs Non Plus

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    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
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    Phase One +Back vs Non Plus

    Just doing some research and was wondering besides the obvious, + has a better LCD, long exposures are possible, yet shooting at base ISO how would IQ compare between lets say a P45+ vs a P45

    Thanks

    Steven
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

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    Member Seascape's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One +Back vs Non Plus

    I recently bought a P45 and I am very happy with it. As far as I know, there is very little difference between the + and non+ at the lower ISO's.

    MR on LuLa claimed 45 minute noise free exposures vs 60 minute exposures for the + version, so again not a great deal of difference. Both are a 1.1 crop BTW, so good sensor real estate.

    So while the LCD display is better, if you don't need the higher ISO feature, a P45 is a very nice back.......loads of resolution in my experience

    PS: I had my back upgraded with the Live View option from the + series, during refurb by the factory.
    Last edited by Seascape; 19th April 2011 at 17:45. Reason: added info

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    Re: Phase One +Back vs Non Plus

    P45 is the only non plus back which is not severely limited in long exposures. It's technically listed as "several minutes" and I've personally seen shots at 3-4 minutes which looked pretty good still, and longer should be possible in colder weather. I'm surprised to hear someone talking about a P45 non plus going to 45 minutes - never seen that myself but also haven't ever tried and would depend a LOT on the ambient temperature. If going past "several minutes" is important to you then there is zero question in my mind you should get the plus. One pesky note: the non plus does not count up and down the seconds during a long exposure (and the subsequent dark frame capture).

    P45+ vs. P45:
    - Better LCD (maybe a B- rather than a C+)
    - Better IR cut filter (mostly notable when shooting artificial black fabric)
    - Live View (when tethered)
    - Better long exposure (see above)
    - Larger buffer (notable when quickly shooting many images in a row)

    IQ vs P45 (specific to what I know about your needs)
    - MUCH MUCH better LCD
    - Zoom to 100% on screen is much easier to judge focus
    - Focus mask on the LCD
    - USB as well as firewire (you could tether to a small netbook)
    - Tad more dynamic range
    - Dalsa rather than Kodak color/tonality - at least different, often preferred, but a personal choice

    IQ140 would be a smaller sensor with the same resolution which means in a single frame you won't be able to get as wide, but you'll be able to fit more frames within any given image circle for a higher total resolution.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Re: Phase One +Back vs Non Plus

    You forgot one Doug

    IQ way, way, way more expensive than a non plus P45.

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    Re: Phase One +Back vs Non Plus

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    P45 is the only non plus back which is not severely limited in long exposures. It's technically listed as "several minutes" and I've personally seen shots at 3-4 minutes which looked pretty good still, and longer should be possible in colder weather.
    P45 20 minutes (indoors): http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...p45-long.shtml
    Someone at the P1 forums reported about 30minutes.

    - IQ wise at base ISO there's literally no difference between the plus and non-plus P45
    - there are many P45's with live view enabled

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One +Back vs Non Plus

    I bought a P30 MFDB years ago (new)---and at the time the P30+ was just getting released. I may be mistaken, but very much got the impression that there was not as large a difference between a +plus back and non-plus back as the marketing pundits would have us believe. The "new" LCD was marginally better; vague memories of live view potential, and longer exposures, but the non-plus backs were pretty good already in this regard (I recall 30 min exposures), and improvements that I saw were more software based. And--any shortcomings here have now more than likely been improved by C1Pro 6. (C1Pro 3 was the flavor of the time!).

    Don Libby and I tried a cursory comparison of P30/P30+ images and really found nothing dispositive. I saved $5K and bought a cheap hoodman loupe in lieu of the "new" LCD. There are so many other factors involved in creating an image, that I think you would be very hard pressed to find much of a difference in IQ between a P45 and a P45+ MFDB.

    The improvements going to the P65+ series of MFDBs and of course the latest IQ series of MFDBs are large generational improvements from Phase One; the improvements from a non-plus to a +plus MFDB were more spit-shine. Nice, but nothing earth-shattering, IMHO.

    ken

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    Re: Phase One +Back vs Non Plus

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    ...

    Don Libby and I tried a cursory comparison of P30/P30+ images and really found nothing dispositive. ..

    ken
    Ken,

    How do they compare at higher ISO? Say, 400.

    Thanks, Valentin.

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One +Back vs Non Plus

    Quote Originally Posted by Valentin View Post
    Ken,

    How do they compare at higher ISO? Say, 400.

    Thanks, Valentin.
    This was years ago, Valentin, and I really can't recall there being any big differences worth noting, at least nothing attributable solely to the back. 400was "okay" but probably like most here, tend to try and keep to much slower 100 ISO if at all possible. Not until the P65+ did I ever really venture beyond that.

    I'd bet there are more noticeable differences (improvement) with files (plus and non-plus) that can now be processed with C1 Pro 6 (over C1 Pro 3).

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