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Thread: IQ260 vs IQ280

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    IQ260 vs IQ280

    I'm embarking on the mF journey over the next 2 months.
    Could someone please explain exactly what are the other considerations here, apart from:

    1. 60MP vs 80 MP
    2. Long exposures 1hr vs 2mins ?

    Many thanks
    Saty

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    If you ever intend to use tech cams with tilt/shift movements, particularly with wide angles, know that 80mp backs do not like lenses with a symmetrical design.
    Schneider lenses have a symmetrical design, meaning light may exit at a steep angle (depending on focal length) and will cause lots of color shift, sometimes even without any movements. Rodenstock lenses are retro-focus and will work just fine.

    The problem? Some Rodies cost almost twice as much as Schneider's and are also larger and heavier as well, even though performance-wise, they'll be quite similar (not much difference between excellent and amazing ). So you'll have to take lens budget into account... an 80mp system with a few lenses could set you back double for those extra 20mp.
    Last edited by Kolor-Pikker; 1st November 2013 at 07:24.
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolor-Pikker View Post
    If you ever intend to use tech cams with tilt/shift movements, particularly with wide angles, know that 80mp backs do not like lenses with a symmetrical design.
    Schneider lenses have a symmetrical design, meaning light may exit at a steep angle (depending on focal length) and will cause lots of color shift, sometimes even without any movements. Rodenstock lenses are retro-focus and will work just fine.

    The problem? Some Rodies cost 3x or more than a similar lens from Schneider and are also larger and heavier as well, even though performance-wise, they'll be quite similar (not much difference between excellent and amazing ). So you'll have to take lens budget into account... an 80mp system with a few lenses could set you back double for those extra 20mp.

    I have the the IQ 280 - upgraded from the IQ 180. I agree with Kolor Pikkers comments 100%. I did have the good fortune of having no investment in Schneider wides - which can be problematic until you hit 60mm (which btw the Schneider 60mm is a great lens)

    I would add - one of the deciding factors for me was that I knew I was going to shoot outdoors allot with the DF (apart from a tech) and I wanted the sensor+ files at 20 meg. You get cleaner files say on a sensor+ iso 400 than a full file at iso 400. If you shoot handheld - you will find yourself going up in iso to get a higher shutter speed. You will also want to be f8 - f16 to get sharpest photos, unless there is a compelling reason for shallow depth of field.

    FWIW - I am very happy with MF.

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolor-Pikker View Post
    The problem? Some Rodies cost 3x or more than a similar lens from Schneider and are also larger and heavier as well, even though performance-wise, they'll be quite similar (not much difference between excellent and amazing ). So you'll have to take lens budget into account... an 80mp system with a few lenses could set you back double for those extra 20mp.
    3x is a bit of hyperbole, at least with Cambo and Arca.

    Roddy 28HR vs Schneider 28XL: about 1.1x
    Roddy 32HR vs Schneider 35XL: about 1.7x
    Roddy 35HR vs Schneider 35XL: about the same
    Roddy 40HR vs Schneider 43XL: about 1.2x

    I'm rounding heavily as it varies depending on whether you're talking about Cambo or Arca and whether you're talking about a tilt-swing lens or not on the Cambo side; my only point is that while Roddy is almost always more expensive it is not 3x. That does not negate your overall point that one must consider all accessories and lenses when planning a back+tech camera, especially when some tech camera manufacturers have basic accessories that are 2-3x the cost of their competitors.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    If you haven't seen it there is a nice list of technical specifications here:
    Tech Camera Overview

    80mp, with good technique and a sharp lens, is really something special. However, in general my default position now is to recommend a 260 over an 180 for landscape/tech use until/unless someone has specific reasons why 80mp is critical/important to them.

    Also bear in mind that a two shot stitch with 60mp is (accounting for overlap) in the ballpark of 100mp –*even more than the 80mp single capture. And it's much harder to find lenses that will handle a two-shot stitch of an 80mp sensor. The point being, for specific scenes that you identify as wanting absolute max resolution, you can have it even with "only" (lol) 60mp sensor. You can see the image circles and whether they allow two 60mp frames here: Tech Camera Image Visualizer

    If at all possible however, go shoot with these things, words/specs/recommendations only go so far. I am the proud new owner of an X-Pro 1 after renting an X-E1 which I suspected I'd like based on the reviews and images – turns out I really need an optical viewfinder to be happy with a snapshot camera.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    3x is a bit of hyperbole, at least with Cambo and Arca.
    Yes, it was hyperbole, shock factor is a better and easier tool to drive a point than giving straight numbers. I don't want to spend half the day looking up spreadsheets and prices. I edited my post for less tin foil content.

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by satybhat View Post
    I'm embarking on the mF journey over the next 2 months.
    Could someone please explain exactly what are the other considerations here, apart from:

    1. 60MP vs 80 MP
    2. Long exposures 1hr vs 2mins ?

    Many thanks
    Saty

    Lots of good info has been posted already.

    Both are awesome backs.

    I can make some generalizations based on all the info I have been able to gather but as always your final choice completely depends on how you intend to use the back (type of photography and working style) including the camera platform and lenses.

    1- For studio work on an SLR like a DF+ body and for work outside the studio (including landscapes up to 30 sec exposures) and even some available light work in low light using also an SLR body and higher iso (sensor +) the IQ280 is the best back made.

    2- For landscape/architecture use on a technical camera with rodenstock lenses and short exposures of 30 sec or faster the IQ280 is the best back.

    3- For long exposures the best choice is the 260.

    4- For using on a tech camera with lenses down to 23mm and also if you do a lot of movements on the camera (rise/fall, L/R shift) then the 260 is the best choice.

    For all of the above then the 260 is the best all around back.

    (I own a Arca Swiss RM3Di with Rodenstock lenses a PhaseOne IQ160 and a Hasselblad H1)
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    to return to the OP - one thing to note is that the shift to MFDB, and to tech camera lenses is a significant jump in quality over most anything else. A decent lens with a 40 mp back will be much better than you might imagine - the 60 mp is even better, etc.

    One way to look at this, put crudely, is that 40 mp is like 4x5 film; 80 is like 8x10. The 60 gives flexibility to crop and still have plenty of resolution, but it is not so demanding on the gear as the 80.
    www.gigi-photos.com
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    My preference would be the IQ260. The best general purpose back on the market. Plenty of horsepower with the least amount of limitations. I owned the IQ160 and loved it and shot the 260 for a week with some pretty long exposures and it was very clean.

    FYI shooting in sensor plus at 15mpx is really more like shooting a 24mpx 35cam. Don't let the mpx deter you here. Sensor plus is really darn good
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    My preference would be the IQ260. The best general purpose back on the market. Plenty of horsepower with the least amount of limitations. I owned the IQ160 and loved it and shot the 260 for a week with some pretty long exposures and it was very clean.

    FYI shooting in sensor plus at 15mpx is really more like shooting a 24mpx 35cam. Don't let the mpx deter you here. Sensor plus is really darn good

    Guy,is the 80mp back any better at handling fabric's,I heard many people say that the ultra high res mitigates moire,I have a 50mp H back and I do see moire with fine fabric from time to time..

    Rob

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    Guy,is the 80mp back any better at handling fabric's,I heard many people say that the ultra high res mitigates moire,I have a 50mp H back and I do see moire with fine fabric from time to time..

    Rob
    Most likely it will be because of the smaller micron sensor 5.4 compared to the 260 at 6 micron. I have yet to run into though when I had my 160.

    This one is kind of tough since there is no real hard evidence to go by. So if you had to give a edge than the 80 mpx sensors. When I did a moire test a couple years ago you can see it really bad with the P25 Plus at 9 micron, the P45plus at 7.4 I think it is was much better than the P65 it was hardly there at 6 micron. So moire seems to reduce as the microns get smaller.

    The difference between the 6 micron and 5.4 would be a much smaller instance if you know what I mean. Lets say if I was a studio shooter and shot textiles all day long than i would be more concerned about it. I also learned that if you take it off critical focus and just stop down you can wipe out any moire. I do that with cockpit display instruments. You get into the nyquist levels it becomes a mess, so I back off a touch but still sharp.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    What may have not been brought up here is the 80 mpx sensor has a little bit more color range to it than the 60mpx and a touch more DR but ignore DR as its so good on both these backs, you would be splitting hairs. The color tone though is interesting but you got to have a really good eye to see it and in print it may not play a role. Obviously the 20 mpx is handy when your printing really big and it is the biggest dog in the shed no question. The really big downfall is a tech cam but if you have roadies under 60mm than its not a issue. If anything its the difference between having to buy a Roadie 32mm HR lens for the 280 and cheating with a SK 35mm for the 260 which is far cheaper but worthless on the 280. Also some things as mentioned but bottom line if you have the money to work around it the 280 is killer good.

    I like the 260 and the 160 backs but hat was what I was using and grew to love. In fact I had the P40+, IQ 140 and IQ 160 all the same identical sensor and they all behaved the same. If you need that extra 20 mpx in the 180 and 280 than go for it as they are great backs and for some folks having the absolute best is there priority and nothing wrong with that thinking. You just have to buy your way around a few limitations is what it comes down too.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Most likely it will be because of the smaller micron sensor 5.4 compared to the 260 at 6 micron. I have yet to run into though when I had my 160.

    This one is kind of tough since there is no real hard evidence to go by. So if you had to give a edge than the 80 mpx sensors. When I did a moire test a couple years ago you can see it really bad with the P25 Plus at 9 micron, the P45plus at 7.4 I think it is was much better than the P65 it was hardly there at 6 micron. So moire seems to reduce as the microns get smaller.

    The difference between the 6 micron and 5.4 would be a much smaller instance if you know what I mean. Lets say if I was a studio shooter and shot textiles all day long than i would be more concerned about it. I also learned that if you take it off critical focus and just stop down you can wipe out any moire. I do that with cockpit display instruments. You get into the nyquist levels it becomes a mess, so I back off a touch but still sharp.

    I think the smaller micron size really makes the difference,I have a D800E which has 4.17microns (I think) and I rarely ever see Moire,not even with the sharpest Nikon Lens I have (85mm 1.4G at f4),I am guessing smaller microns increases spatial resolution..

    I am considering an IQ back in place of my H to use on a H4X body,and the iq260 seems like the best back around right now,just the moire issue is bringing the 80mp into consideration,

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    Guy,is the 80mp back any better at handling fabric's,I heard many people say that the ultra high res mitigates moire,I have a 50mp H back and I do see moire with fine fabric from time to time..

    Rob
    We should also point out here that moire can and will show up in a sensor with a AA filter as well. Reason you don't see it so much and pardon me here but most of the time canon, Nikon with some of there **** lenses could not get to the nyquist level anyway. LOL that was not nice of me but its true.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    I think the smaller micron size really makes the difference,I have a D800E which has 4.17microns (I think) and I rarely ever see Moire,not even with the sharpest Nikon Lens I have (85mm 1.4G at f4),I am guessing smaller microns increases spatial resolution..

    I am considering an IQ back in place of my H to use on a H4X body,and the iq260 seems like the best back around right now,just the moire issue is bringing the 80mp into consideration,
    Also for you the H50 is Kodak and the 260 Dalsa you will see some differences in color tone and the Dalsa more neutral in color. I love the Dalsa sensors myself. So you will see some difference , not only that you get all the great functions of a IQ. So bottom line its a good trade for you. I know Capture Integration sells both Hassy and Phase and maybe you can work a trade with them even though your out of country. I don't know how the international stuff works but might be worth a call at least. I can help you if need be
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    We should also point out here that moire can and will show up in a sensor with a AA filter as well. Reason you don't see it so much and pardon me here but most of the time canon, Nikon with some of there **** lenses could not get to the nyquist level anyway. LOL that was not nice of me but its true.
    Very true,, similar to using the simple method of stopping down to diffraction zone to mitigate moire when using very sharp glass on medium format..
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    BTW I have seen Moire with the Zeiss 135 F2, but that maybe a exception since it maybe the best lens on a D800E. But your correct I have not seen much with that sensor. So my general rule stands the smaller the micron the less moire effect.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    Very true,, similar to using the simple method of stopping down to diffraction zone to mitigate moire when using very sharp glass on medium format..
    Exactly
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    wow !
    superb replies... one of the reasons I love this forum... the amount of knowledge shared here is nothing short of amazing.

    Doug / Guy / Jack, I really wish I could visit you guys at some stage, however at present my hand are pretty tied up in my business here in Melbourne. So ( at some premium ) I will have to buy locally, but my next iteration of "essential supplies" would be from you guys, so I'll surely be keeping in touch...

    As regards my query, I'm still a bit undecided whether and how limiting the color cast issue would be on the IQ280, when (not if) I go the tech way. But what I do know is that I'll likely not need exposures > 2 mins at this stage.

    Thanks again guys. btw, this is one helluva inferno for sure !!

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    I think the smaller micron size really makes the difference,I have a D800E which has 4.17microns (I think) and I rarely ever see Moire,not even with the sharpest Nikon Lens I have (85mm 1.4G at f4),I am guessing smaller microns increases spatial resolution..

    I am considering an IQ back in place of my H to use on a H4X body,and the iq260 seems like the best back around right now,just the moire issue is bringing the 80mp into consideration,
    Rob,

    I traded my IQ180 with the IQ260 and have never looked back.
    If you are interested in using the back with the digital SLR body like Phase One DF+/Hassy H4X you may go with the IQ180 (or 280) for higher MP but not DR. However, if you want to use it with the tech cam, it's no brainer, I will go with the IQ260. It is significantly more forgiving for the color cast than the IQ180. I did not use the Rodie 28mm I bought from Guy for a long time due to inability to shift with the IQ180 until I have the IQ260.
    Did I mention about long exposure? It is the best in business!

    Best
    Pramote
    Last edited by Landscapelover; 2nd November 2013 at 07:37.
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Hi
    I came from an IQ180 and "downgraded" to an IQ260 over the summer.
    Here apart from the WIfi feature were my reasons
    - longer exposures, files in long exposure mode do look better on the 260 starting from 10 seconds and longer
    - though I got the 50 ,32 and 23 HR extreme shifting to the lenses respective limits still works better on the 260, as a result stiched images are more easily blended together as compared to my 180
    - sensor size, this has not been discussed earlier but the ever so lightly increase in sensor size on the 260 does actually make a difference . In tight wide angle shots it really shows having that extra bit of sensor which can result in several inches of shown in your photograph. I compared both backs in this regard and that was a welcome surprise

    On the downside apart from the obvious smaller megapixel count I would rate 2 issues
    -moire : I can confirm RVBs statement that the 260 exhibits moire more easily than the 180/280 ,which almost never showed moire
    - the absolute cleanest files I have seen where from the 180 shot with 35ISO , better than the 260 at 50. Again it's a close call but nevertheless.

    As many already pointed out if file size is pivotal and you don't need exposures over 10 seconds the 280 is the way to go.
    If you are invested in wide angle Schneider glass don't even think about going that route .
    I had to sell my 28 and 43 XL that over time were replaced with a 32 and 23 HR, a costly upgrade from P65 to IQ180 turned even more costly with the upgrade in my lens pool
    Grischa
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    I've found it's very difficult to tell the difference of file quality and DR between the IQ180 at ISO of 35 and IQ 260 at ISO of 50 for landscape photography.
    I don't shoot fabric so I don't see moire to be a problem at all with the landscape photography.
    One thing I still don't see as useful as I thought is the wireless, especially when it can't practically be used with the retinal-display iPAD (too slow...). It is a little disappointment and the problem should have been declared by the Phase One earlier. I believe the backs musted have been tested with the retinal-display iPAD before they were shipped to customers. Well! It's the same as color cast problem with the IQ180.
    Last edited by Landscapelover; 3rd November 2013 at 10:08.

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    It might be worth pointing out, the difference in linear resolution between 60MP and 80MP is 15%. Or to put it another way, a length of 100 pixels on the 60MP sensor is rendered with 115 pixels at 80MP.

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    I agree with Pramote about the WiFi feature of the IQ2 backs being 1st generation and immature. It's a capability in the field that is over-hyped by Phase One due to the fragility of connection, battery drain and the speed of image retrieval (plus I don't want my images sent to me in chronological order - I want the most recent first!). I can see how for some it would be more useful in the studio and/or with the DF+. Adhoc WiFi connection is very spotty with devices in crowded WiFi environments too - definitely a work in progress.

    I did the IQ160 -> IQ260 swap for the principal reason of long exposure capability. That alone allowed me to lighten my bag by no longer having to carry a second P+ back for long exposure shooting. I very nearly have the single solution that allows me to shoot everything with medium format - only the mandatory dark frame processing interferes with that goal.

    I deliberately avoided getting the IQ180 when I bought my IQ160 due to the tech camera lens restrictions. It would have doubled my upgrade cost from my P40+ due to the new lenses I would have had to buy/trade. For a DF/DF+ shooter this would not have been a concern.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I agree with Pramote about the WiFi feature of the IQ2 backs being 1st generation and immature. It's a capability in the field that is over-hyped by Phase One due to the fragility of connection, battery drain and the speed of image retrieval (plus I don't want my images sent to me in chronological order - I want the most recent first!). I can see how for some it would be more useful in the studio and/or with the DF+. Adhoc WiFi connection is very spotty with devices in crowded WiFi environments too - definitely a work in progress.

    I did the IQ160 -> IQ260 swap for the principal reason of long exposure capability. That alone allowed me to lighten my bag by no longer having to carry a second P+ back for long exposure shooting. I very nearly have the single solution that allows me to shoot everything with medium format - only the mandatory dark frame processing interferes with that goal.

    I deliberately avoided getting the IQ180 when I bought my IQ160 due to the tech camera lens restrictions. It would have doubled my upgrade cost from my P40+ due to the new lenses I would have had to buy/trade. For a DF/DF+ shooter this would not have been a concern.
    I've found a simple way to get around the Adhoc WiFi problem on the IQ2 series backs. I have a ZTE WiFi/3G dongle that I used to use when traveling in Italy where public WiFi is less common than in the UK. It creates a WiFi hotspot but doesn't require the 3G connection. It's small, light and gives me a WiFi network between the back and the iPad wherever I am. No need to struggle to set up an Adhoc connection which does seem problematic when there are WiFi networks in the vicinity. +1 to images being sent in chronological order.
    Miles Flint
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    The irony for me is that if my iPhone connects, my iPad is reliable. If the iPhone disconnects, the iPad disconnects also.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    It might be worth pointing out, the difference in linear resolution between 60MP and 80MP is 15%. Or to put it another way, a length of 100 pixels on the 60MP sensor is rendered with 115 pixels at 80MP.
    And to put it in terms of physical print size, 60mp is a roughly 25 x 19 inch print at 360ppi, 80mp will give you an extra 3.25 inches. Multiply these amounts by 1.5x for 240ppi.

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by MILESF View Post
    I've found a simple way to get around the Adhoc WiFi problem on the IQ2 series backs. I have a ZTE WiFi/3G dongle that I used to use when traveling in Italy where public WiFi is less common than in the UK. It creates a WiFi hotspot but doesn't require the 3G connection. It's small, light and gives me a WiFi network between the back and the iPad wherever I am. No need to struggle to set up an Adhoc connection which does seem problematic when there are WiFi networks in the vicinity. +1 to images being sent in chronological order.
    Hi Miles

    What model ZTE do you have? Or do you have a link to the model you have?

    Thanks so much

    Phil

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    Senior Member RVB's Avatar
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Also for you the H50 is Kodak and the 260 Dalsa you will see some differences in color tone and the Dalsa more neutral in color. I love the Dalsa sensors myself. So you will see some difference , not only that you get all the great functions of a IQ. So bottom line its a good trade for you. I know Capture Integration sells both Hassy and Phase and maybe you can work a trade with them even though your out of country. I don't know how the international stuff works but might be worth a call at least. I can help you if need be
    Guy,I gave Steve Hendrix a call today,I am going to see if I can work out a way into the IQ260,probably in the new year.. (still dealing with medical problem and all the issues that surround it.. )

    I plan to use it on a H4X with my HC glass and then add a tech cam and a couple of Rodies at some point..

    Rob

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    When I first read about wifi on the newer IQ2 models, it really did not do much for me. However after upgrading from the 160 to 260 via Digital Transitions, I found that the wifi connection did make a considerable difference, mainly since I shooting a tech camera only.

    A few more thoughts on wifi:

    1. Don't upgrade to iOS7, on your ipad or phone if you want it to work consistently. There have been a few dealer posts on ways to make it work, but on my setup none of these work. I have found a work around that seems to work 85% of the time, but it's still buggy. I was always able to connect on iOS6 100% of the time. There were timeouts that required rebooting the back, but it still worked. As much as I love Phase products, I was a bit surprised by the failure with iOS7. The software was out in beta for developers for over 6 months. As others stated, this should have been caught and a warning sent out not to upgrade. I did not plan to upgrade my ipad, but the software upgrade noticed is worded differently than the phone and I screwed up and allowed the upgrade, one thing is for sure you can't go back to iOS6.

    2. The retina ipad is probably not the best for this. Even with "respect retine" on, the view at 100% is not the best. If you reduce it just a bit, to maybe 80% then it's much easier to work with. Doug told me to get a mini, but I wanted the larger ipad for business reasons, I still may go pick up a older mini with low memory. The main reason I did not want to use the mini was that reflection issues on it's screen, which as worse than the retina ipads.

    3. I totally agree, load the images in order shot, not from the beginning. However after I started using the wifi more, I realized you can quickly just page down to the latest image. You don't have to wait for all the images to load as the software is only bringing in a certain amount of previews anyway. You never load all the files at one time into a buffer on the ipad (I would like to see this)

    4. The image on the ipad is a bit darker, even with the brightness at 100% and thus you don't get as good a preview of shadow areas. Same on the iphone.

    4. I have not had any issue where I have to have the iphone connected and the ipad, but I have never tried to bring both up at the same time.

    5. The strange thing about iOS7 connections via adhoc is when I finally get the connection to work, it's much more stable than with iOS6, by stable I mean the need to reboot the back happens much less. With iOS6 many times after viewing an image at 100%, and going back to the thumbnail view the software would freeze up.

    6. One interesting note, when the software does freeze, you can't power the back off you have to power down the ipad (this is with iOS7). This has happened to me several times.

    7. I do hope that Phase built enough into this wifi to make a more robust tools and that is not "done" and best of breed until a new back comes out. Hoping for some firmware update.

    8. I wish they would make a software like Capture pilot that would allow wifi connections to a PC. The wifi on most PC's may be a bit more stable. In the field with only the wifi on the Phase connected to my ipad, my range tends to be about 10 feet away and it's also somewhat line of sight dependent, i.e I can get maybe 15 feet away max as long as I stay even to the back, but if I sit down to preview images while the back is on a tripod it's the connection seems to get a bit shaky.

    Paul Caldwell
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by alajuela View Post
    Hi Miles

    What model ZTE do you have? Or do you have a link to the model you have?

    Thanks so much

    Phil
    Phil,

    It's an MF63 which I got from Wind Telecom in Italy for 59 Euros (plus 15 Euros prepaid for 10Gb of cellular data per month). It no longer has an active SIM but the WiFi side works fine without it. You can find it on the ZTE website (enter MF63 in the search box) but it looks like a European carrier specific model.

    The nearest generic device of this type that I can find on ZTE's site is the MF65 which is at: MF65 - Mobile Hotspot - ZTE Devices - Bringing you closer

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by MILESF View Post
    I've found a simple way to get around the Adhoc WiFi problem on the IQ2 series backs. I have a ZTE WiFi/3G dongle that I used to use when traveling in Italy where public WiFi is less common than in the UK. It creates a WiFi hotspot but doesn't require the 3G connection. It's small, light and gives me a WiFi network between the back and the iPad wherever I am. No need to struggle to set up an Adhoc connection which does seem problematic when there are WiFi networks in the vicinity. +1 to images being sent in chronological order.
    Quote Originally Posted by MILESF View Post
    Phil,

    It's an MF63 which I got from Wind Telecom in Italy for 59 Euros (plus 15 Euros prepaid for 10Gb of cellular data per month). It no longer has an active SIM but the WiFi side works fine without it. You can find it on the ZTE website (enter MF63 in the search box) but it looks like a European carrier specific model.

    The nearest generic device of this type that I can find on ZTE's site is the MF65 which is at: MF65 - Mobile Hotspot - ZTE Devices - Bringing you closer

    Thank you very much Miles

    Phil
    Philip
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    BTW one of the best threads I have seen in awhile. Freaking great data here. Thanks Everyone.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Would anyone care to share info regarding speed/responsiveness/ISO performance/Sensor+ etc? Landscapes on tripod are one thing, but there are plenty of other applications.

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoRepse View Post
    Would anyone care to share info regarding speed/responsiveness/ISO performance/Sensor+ etc? Landscapes on tripod are one thing, but there are plenty of other applications.
    I'm not sure if speed and responsiveness are a medium format thing, at least as of 2013, if you feel the need to run around and shoot in available light with your DF, get a Manfrotto Neotec 685B monopod. I takes like 5 seconds to deploy.

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    It might be worth pointing out, the difference in linear resolution between 60MP and 80MP is 15%. Or to put it another way, a length of 100 pixels on the 60MP sensor is rendered with 115 pixels at 80MP.
    I would have thought the difference in resolution would be 25% ?? 60/80 x 100 =75% ?

    BTW, I've seen ALL of the posts and pages on the tech cam threads here and my head's a buzzing !! and last night was an interesting experience... the last thought I was having when I slept with was "[email protected]% it, what good is the money in bank anyways, if I don't use it !! " I think I must have said this aloud in my half'sleep, cause I saw my wife staring at me with eyes wide open in horror !! not that she understood what I was talking about, but she did see one of the tech cam images ( of the camera itself ), and she asked me what it was, and I replied: its an instrument to measure near-vision (I work as a physician). I think she was satisfied with this and went back to sleep !!!

    So coming back to the thread, 75% reduction in resolution if I go for the 60mp backs - Yet, as far as I see it till now, no one seems to be complaining that it affects their print sizes. Would that be right ? For a single well thought shot, would 80mp show the difference when you print really large, say: 3x2m ? (would be displaying in a local charitable gallery here). Would love to hear about how large the stalwarts here have printed in the past with the IQ160.

    The next issue is the long exposures - does it really make a difference, if you were to expose for say 60s at ISO35 on the 280/180 as opposed to say 20s at ISO 140 on the 260/160 ? in short, how "bad" is the long exposure on IQ180/280 when compared to the 60MP backs ?

    I understand that the IQ260 is a completely new sensor design with the electronics, but given a choice, if my exposures were limited to about a minute and half, would I be wise to choose the IQ180 over the IQ260 (both are available here in Melbourne - the IQ180 is pre-owned, obviously) ?

    Thanks, fellow Dante-slaves.
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by satybhat View Post
    ....
    BTW, I've seen ALL of the posts and pages on the tech cam threads here and my head's a buzzing !! and last night was an interesting experience... the last thought I was having when I slept with was "[email protected]% it, what good is the money in bank anyways, if I don't use it !! " I think I must have said this aloud in my half'sleep, cause I saw my wife staring at me with eyes wide open in horror !! .....

    C'mon in. The water's fine.



    ken

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by satybhat View Post
    if my exposures were limited to about a minute and half, would I be wise to choose the IQ180 over the IQ260 (both are available here in Melbourne - the IQ180 is pre-owned, obviously) ?

    Thanks, fellow Dante-slaves.
    I think 90 sec exposures are way too long for high quality results in the IQ160 (for sure, I own one and try to limit exposures to 10 sec or faster) and the IQ180 (from what I have seen. It might be a hair better in longer exposures than the 160 but I would not count on it) you are much better served by the IQ260 for exposures longer than say 15-20 sec. Besides that the IQ160/180 are superb.

    I love my tech camera and really there is nothing like a tech camera for landscapes. Once you use one you will feel really odd shooting landscapes with an SLR.

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    [QUOTE=satybhat;547230]I would have thought the difference in resolution would be 25% ?? 60/80 x 100 =75% ?


    I believe the correct equation is 8060=1.333,√1.333=1.15 so the difference is 15% extra resolution for the IQ280,

    Rob
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_R View Post
    I think 90 sec exposures are way too long for high quality results in the IQ160
    Unless you shoot in a cold climate, haven't tested the IQ160 but on the backs I've tested I've noted huuuuge differences when shooting in freezing temperatures. Therefore I think it's a bit sad that the manufacturers have hard-limited the exposure time.

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    or 80-60 = 20 extra, and 20 is 33%of 60. you are adding 1/3 more pixels

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Quote Originally Posted by torger View Post
    Unless you shoot in a cold climate, haven't tested the IQ160 but on the backs I've tested I've noted huuuuge differences when shooting in freezing temperatures. Therefore I think it's a bit sad that the manufacturers have hard-limited the exposure time.
    Note that phase one does not hard-limit the back. I'd its frigid outside you can push the back longer-than-spec.

    (Note for everyone else - torger uses a Leaf Aptus back which does use a hard stop when it reaches it's longest exposure spec)
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    [QUOTE=RVB;547310]
    Quote Originally Posted by satybhat View Post
    I would have thought the difference in resolution would be 25% ?? 60/80 x 100 =75% ?


    I believe the correct equation is 8060=1.333,√1.333=1.15 so the difference is 15% extra resolution for the IQ280,

    Rob
    This has to be the best place on the net for some amazing information... F#*&, I'm truly blown away by how much I have learnt in the last week.
    Doug / Guy and co. I wish you guys were based here in Oz, or the AUD was stronger than USD !!!

    So pardon my inexperience with large MP files and pardon my rehashing the topic, am I right in assuming that somewhere at 10-15secs, the IQ260 will start pulling ahead of the 280, all else being equal ?

    Also, at what print sizes would you see the 80MP back pulling ahead of the 60MP back for the same image ? Would it show in gallery sized prints of 40x60 inches ?( doing a charitable exhibition of 3 prints in January ) ?

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    Senior Member Dogs857's Avatar
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    [QUOTE=satybhat;549468]
    Quote Originally Posted by RVB View Post
    Also, at what print sizes would you see the 80MP back pulling ahead of the 60MP back for the same image ? Would it show in gallery sized prints of 40x60 inches ?( doing a charitable exhibition of 3 prints in January ) ?
    That depends on a number of factors.
    1. Are you printing these yourself or are you having a lab do it for you??
    2. What program are you using to process and resize your images??
    3. Do you have your workflow set up to create large prints??

    You can print 40x60 from most modern DSLR's. I have done so from a D3x so there is no reason you can't get great prints from either the 180 or 260. So long as your technique is down and your processing and enlarging are done correctly then you will get great results.
    Stop chasing gear, start chasing photos instead.

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Workflow, I'm not sure, Jeff.
    So, 1 and 3: I was thinking of third-partying this one to one or two labs in Melbourne... colour factory is one such. Gives me an idea about how the chaps do it as well. ( I have zero printing experience for now ). The one thing I am confident of is finding compositions (which is where I keep investing my energy ).
    2. I was thinking of a combination of C1, PS6 and Genuine fractals. Although any pointers to the workflow (books or threads) or software suggestions are welcome.

    I do understand that the scenes will dictate perceived resolution, however, for the same scene / settings / exposure parameters, at what print sizes would you see the 80MP back pulling ahead of the 60MP back for the same image ?

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Satybhat: that will depend on what you consider "significant".

    I suggest you simply take an 80mp raw file and downsample it to 60mp upon processing. Then print both. This isn't the exact same as capturing at native 60 vs native 80, but it will give you a pretty good idea.

    If you have a dealer where you can do a 60mp and 80mp comparison with relevant lens/subject/aperture/technique to your workflow then all the better. Or you can use a dealer's in-house test files comparing 60mp and 80mp captures of the same scene (I guess I can't speak for other dealers, but we have created and maintain an archive of such comparisons) - though there is no guarantee the lens/aperture/subject/technique will be relevant to your proposed use.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Hello Paul & Others :

    For a IQ 260 or 280, how long does it take for the images to appear on an iPad under a WiFi set up ?


    Thanks,

    Jai
    Jai Vora jaivora.com +91 982-136-0044

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    With the IQ260 it takes maybe 1-2 seconds for an image to transfer across. Remember it's a rendering scaled to the iPad and not the full 60/80mp image.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: IQ260 vs IQ280

    Thanks Graham - Good for quick composition check - How long for the entire image is download so one can check focus, etc - Is this even possible ?


    Thanks,

    Jai
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