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Thread: Cleaning mirror and focusing screen of Phase One 645 DF: desperate for help

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    Member pasman's Avatar
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    Unhappy Cleaning mirror and focusing screen of Phase One 645 DF: desperate for help

    Hi!

    My name is Boris and I'm long time reader of that beautiful forum but now it's time for some posting.

    Few months ago I bought my first MFD camera: P1 645 DF with IQ180 back, used in mint condition (about 700 frames!).

    Boy, that's some terrific piece of a camera! But that is not a reason of starting that thread (I will post in relevant threads some pictures later), the reason is that I'm a little OCD about dust on sensor and other parts of camera and that system had a lot of it!

    So I've decided to get it clean.

    Cleaning sensor was nice and easy but mirror and focusing screen was a disaster.

    I tried to blow off debris with DataVac 500 and failed miserably. Maybe it wasn't close enough (I was worried about possibility of damaging camera) but not a single dust was blown off (OK, maybe few was).

    Next step was trying to move dust from focusing screen with a dust removal brush of Lenspen. I get rid of that dust alright but when I attached lens I was horrified by view of enormously big fat black hair that came from my faulty Lenspen.

    I tried to blow that not so little guy off without success! I guess that static electricity or whatever hold its tight. So I tried to remove it with other side of Lenspen, I was not succeed but now I have a beautiful smudge on focusing screen about 1 cm long. I managed to remove that hair with cotton swab that left much more microhair that there was dust before my quest of purity.

    I lost it, to be honest, and before you could say Schneider Kreuznach I drop half of Eclipse solution bottle to pecpad and violently but gently applied it to the focusing screen.

    I used pecpad with Eclipse on mirror also.

    Now I have a what's appears to be a black scratch about 1 mm long on focusing screen and mirror has slight magenta stain near its edge.

    I live in Siberia, Russia (bears and balalayka's you know), so nearest Phase One repair center is about 5000 kilometers away. So I'm on my own here and hope you could help me with advice guys.

    1) Focusing screen I could order and install new, that is not a big deal i believe. I think I could live with that scratch till then. Though I don't understand how I scratched it. Is it so incredibly fragile?

    2) What should I do (if anything) with mirror? That staining has no visual impact on image in viewfinder, could it interfere with autofocus or metering? Was it absolutely disastrous to use Eclipse solution on it?

    3) Was it stupid and irresponsible to use DataVac blower on P1? I now that is OK to use on my D800 but maybe P1 is more delicate beast?

    I writing that from work but soon I will need to go home to that maimed body...

    Thank you very much in advance!

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    Re: Cleaning mirror and focusing screen of Phase One 645 DF: desperate for help

    Hello

    I the focusing screens are very delicate and will scratch much easier than you think. I only will lightly brush mine off with a visible dust tool. One of their hair brushes. I would also stay away from eclipse fluid on the focusing screen as it may cause some issues since the fluid will penetrate into the screen and you can't wipe it off. It will probably be a good idea to order a replacement. They are a bit tricky install but if you take your time you should be ok. Make sure you use the special tool for gripping the focusing screen. Also make sure you apply a good amount if pressure when you close the frame around the focusing screen as it can come loose and the screen will drop out.

    On the mirror not sure what to tell you on that. Just about anything you try to wipe the mirror with will most likely scratch it.

    Paul
    Last edited by Paul2660; 15th May 2014 at 15:35.
    Paul Caldwell
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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Cleaning mirror and focusing screen of Phase One 645 DF: desperate for help

    "Make upsurge?" Don't you just love software that chooses your words for you?

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    Re: Cleaning mirror and focusing screen of Phase One 645 DF: desperate for help

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    "Make upsurge?" Don't you just love software that chooses your words for you?

    Steven. Thanks not sure what happened on that post.

    Paul

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    Re: Cleaning mirror and focusing screen of Phase One 645 DF: desperate for help

    Paul,

    Thank you very much for answer.

    Yeah, I just experienced how easy to scratch focusing screen now I have 3 scratches that goes from one edge to other. And I was so careful (much more then first time). Whatever, I already ordered new screen.

    But mirror is whole other story (please see attached photo), do you see that magent-ish stain? Its visible only under specific angle (viewfinder is OK), should I worry about it or take it easy?

    Thank you,
    Boris

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    Re: Cleaning mirror and focusing screen of Phase One 645 DF: desperate for help

    The thing to remember is it's only a mirror, so the image won't have the effect. I agree it would be a bit difficult to look through however.

    I am wondering if somehow you possibly damaged a coating on the mirror. The way I see it the damage is done, so you might try a cleaning with Eclipse or another fluid similar. B solution from Phase One's cleaning kit might be a possible.

    Not sure what wipes you are using, I strongly recommend the Leaf wipes, especially for sensor cleaning. Not sure what they are made from, but it's a great material, won't streak like the Phase One wipes. They are all I use on the sensor. Plus when used, they are great to keep around for lenses, glasses etc. Amazing material.

    Also, I believe that any Mamiya repair center could work on the DF or DF+ as they are made by Mamiya, under Phase One's spec's. Mamiya used to have the same body branded under their name as they did with the LS lenses, not sure if they still do as I haven't looked at those products in a while. However the mirror box assembly should be something a Mamiya repair center can fix/replace the mirror. There might be one of those closer to you.

    You can purchase the Leaf wipes from most of the Phase One/Leaf dealers.
    Here is a link to DT's website showing the product.

    Online Store

    Paul
    Paul Caldwell
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    Re: Cleaning mirror and focusing screen of Phase One 645 DF: desperate for help

    Paul, thank you.

    I've used Pec Pads, it was really good on sensor.

    Mamiya repair center is as far as Phase One so I think I better leave mirror as is. I tested today and to my great relief it seems to be working fine. I will purchase though Leaf wipes, thank you.

    Boris

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    Senior Member Chris Giles's Avatar
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    Re: Cleaning mirror and focusing screen of Phase One 645 DF: desperate for help

    Arctic butterfly for everything.

    For the mirror a methanol based lens cleaner with a new lens cloth.

    I've used the butterfly for 4 years now. Never needed to get a sensor clean.
    Chris Giles Photography
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    Re: Cleaning mirror and focusing screen of Phase One 645 DF: desperate for help

    As I was reading the beginning of your post I was planning my answer which would start with "are you living in Siberia?" Meaning that you should do these things at a service center, and then you say you live in Siberia...

    To answer your questions:

    1. The focusing screen is pretty much impossible to clean and very cheap to replace. Look in eBay for deals. Replacing it is tricky especially if you don't have anyone to show you for the first time. You can ask for someone to make you a video of how to change it. If you do want to clean the focusing screen, then of course you first remove it from the body and never try to clean it while inside the body.

    2. The mirror can be cleaned with any wipe without fear, but don't use open liquid bottles near the body as it can damage it. If you want to use liquid, drop a few drops on the wipe away from the body, and then take it to the mirror. I don't think you will be able to replace mirror assembly by yourself. If the magenta stain bothers you, then you should seriously consider sending the body in to replace the mirror. It should be about $600. The stain doesn't affect anything other than your feeling.

    3. On the sensor you must never use any vacuum or brush. It's ok to use vacuum on the body if the back is removed, but not reasonable to put the liquid bottle right on the body.
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    Re: Cleaning mirror and focusing screen of Phase One 645 DF: desperate for help

    Chris, thanks.

    Any Artcic butterfly or specific one?

    shlomi, its not so bad here in Siberia (many beautiful women for once), though completely lack of Phase One or any medium format dealers.

    I watched the video and managed to remove focusing screen for cleaning (that's how I received 3 enormous scratches). I'm not sure that I will be able to wipe mirror without fear now. That stain is not bothering me because its visible only when I change lens, so I can live with that.

    Why its no-no to use duster on sensor? Not sure what do you mean about putting bottle to the body.
    Boris Pasman
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    Re: Cleaning mirror and focusing screen of Phase One 645 DF: desperate for help

    Particles can scratch the sensor filter which is very expensive to replace if you don't have warranty.

    Manufacturer's instructions is use only wipe first with no fluid and only if needed then a very little bit of alcohol.

    From your story I understood that the liquid got spilled from the bottle to the mirror, perhaps I misunderstood.

    We have a lot of Russians here, perhaps that is why I thought of the Siberia expression after I saw your name. I know one guy from Siberia and he didn't complain.
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    Member pasman's Avatar
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    Re: Cleaning mirror and focusing screen of Phase One 645 DF: desperate for help

    Shlomi, thanks. Maybe I should find my fellow Siberians and ask how they manage to maintain theirs MF gear.
    Boris Pasman
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    Re: Cleaning mirror and focusing screen of Phase One 645 DF: desperate for help

    The general rule is to assume that focusing screens are plastic (they are in Mamiyas) and therefore to avoid using any volatile solvent on them, as this tends to react with the plastic and cloud them. Soapy water is safe [as long as you take the screen out first! ]

    Ray

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