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Thread: Will it ever end?

  1. #51
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Will it ever end? (Some examples)

    Hi,

    I made a recent experiments with some stuff I happen to have:

    First, I shot a scene here in the town I live with a 100/3.5 lens on my Hasselblad using my P45+ and Adox 120 CMS ultra fine grain film. I also shot the same image with my Sony Alpha 77 SLT at 100 mm.

    If we look at resolution it is something like this:

    P45+ -> 6.8 micron pixels -> 73 lp/mm
    SLT 77 -> 3.8 micron pixels -> 131 lp/mm
    Adox CMS -> 150 lp/mm

    I made a tiny crop that show some signs and rescaled it to 290 pixels width

    The P45+ image with it's largish pixels looked like this:



    The SLT was shot at the same focal length, so it shows what the P45+ would look like if it had 125 MP (instead of 39 MP)


    The small pixel image is much cleaner and legible. This indicates that the 3.8 micron sensor on the SLT 77 is a good match for the 100 mm lens used on that camera.

    The Adox film on the Hasselblad resolved like the SLT 77, indicating that the 100/3.5 lens on the Hasselblad performs well down to something like 130 lp/mm. But, the film image is noisy. This was shot on the SLT 77 with a Photar 25 and about 20 cm of extension.



    I also scanned the Adix 120 CMS image on my Minolta Dimage Scan Multi Pro at 4800 PPI.



    So, what are my conclusions from this:

    • It seems that 3-4 micron sensor pitch is a good match for both 100 mm lenses.
    • It also seems that 6.8 microns is to large to properly render the image from the 100/3.5
    • Film clearly outresolves the P45+, but the image is noisy


    The film could probably have more exposure which would result in a cleaner image.

    Best regards
    Erik

  2. #52
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    Re: Will it ever end?

    Hi Erik

    Actually to my eyes, the top shot looks a bit better overall as there is just enough noise to make it look the way I like to see such a shot. The lower image is much smoother, which implies a bit more noise reduction.

    You can see the aliasing from the P45+ in the top shot, and I wonder if you had moved to F16 if some of that might have been removed?

    P45+ is still a great performer in the base iso ranges. Again yours has always seemed much better than mine was. The details in the shadows in the top shot are very close to the 2nd shot. Again to my eyes.

    Paul

  3. #53
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Will it ever end?

    Hi Paul,

    My demo here is rather about demonstrating that there are benefits of going to smaller pixels.

    Regarding the colour aliasing, or rather demosaic errors it is my experience that it disappears at f/16. But that comes with loss of sharpness.

    It seems that much of what is lost because of stopping down can be regained with aggressive sharpening.

    My take is that reducing pixel size to say 3-4 microns is benefitial and also that even pretty old lenses can deliver some contrast at those pixel densities. I did shoot a resolution pattern with the 80/2.8, and it reached a bit over 150 lp/mm on the Adox film.

    Now, there are clearly advantages to larger pixels, like being less sensitive to movements and beam angles.

    Regarding the P45+, I am quite happy with it. I am enjoying shooting with it and it is often the camera I reach for first. The resolution advantage is obviously there, even if I would say that the 24 MP of the Sony A99 is quite enough for my standard print size A2. Shooting a classical camera is nice. I even have 6 lenses for the Hasselblad, guess it is a bit crazy.

    The way I see it having both small pixel and large pixel cameras is a good thing. Small pixels give good resolution and good reproduction.

    Of all the cameras I have the P45+ has the largest pixels and the SLT 77 has the smallest ones. So it is sort of a natural comparison. With the Hasselblad I can also use film. The testing I did here was mostly to see how much detail I can get with film. The answer seems to be "plenty but with a lot of noise". Additionally it seems that the Adox film needs to be scanned at something like 8000 PPI to extract all detail.

    The image below is the P45+ image without rescaling


    Thanks for feedback, always nice to hear from you!

    Best regards
    Erik



    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Hi Erik

    Actually to my eyes, the top shot looks a bit better overall as there is just enough noise to make it look the way I like to see such a shot. The lower image is much smoother, which implies a bit more noise reduction.

    You can see the aliasing from the P45+ in the top shot, and I wonder if you had moved to F16 if some of that might have been removed?

    P45+ is still a great performer in the base iso ranges. Again yours has always seemed much better than mine was. The details in the shadows in the top shot are very close to the 2nd shot. Again to my eyes.

    Paul

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    Re: Will it ever end?

    LOL.....Happiness is not giving a flying V because I now make all of my income off of shooting and printing black and white MF and LF film....

    Now then, I have all I need as far as gear but I just put a WTB ad up for a basic Hassy 500CM kit for a friend....kinda blown away by how tight supply is on this stuff and how much it is now going for. I bought both my 501CM/s for $500 per body a few years ago and they are now through the roof. Even 500CM body back and lens kits are scarce and spendy. KEH has next to nothing...crazy!

    Anyway, I digress.....

  5. #55
    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: Will it ever end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ai_Print View Post
    LOL.....Happiness is not giving a flying V because I now make all of my income off of shooting and printing black and white MF and LF film....
    That is so cool!
    Can you point me to your website or gallery where your work is being displayed for sale, as I'd love to see your portfolio.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

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    Re: Will it ever end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ai_Print View Post
    LOL.....Happiness is not giving a flying V because I now make all of my income off of shooting and printing black and white MF and LF film....
    Yes. That. And color.

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