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Thread: Credo 100?

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    Credo 100?

    When can we expect announcement about Credo 100?
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    Senior Member Jamgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Credo 100?

    Not sure if Credo label still is in Phase One's future plans.
    It would be pretty sweet if they did announce a no frills Credo 100 and under cut the H6D-100 price.
    I hope so. That might be my future upgrade.
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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Credo 100?

    Quote Originally Posted by subrata1965 View Post
    When can we expect announcement about Credo 100?
    Does your wife even know about your Credo 50 yet?

    Having the Credo 50 means it'll be easier to swap out a similar looking Credo 100----and maybe she won't notice. Let me know if you go for it----and I can make a Credo 50 sticker that you can put on top of the Credo 100 logo.

    ken
    Last edited by kdphotography; 10th April 2016 at 06:55.

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    Re: Credo 100?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamgolf View Post
    Not sure if Credo label still is in Phase One's future plans.
    It would be pretty sweet if they did announce a no frills Credo 100 and under cut the H6D-100 price.
    I hope so. That might be my future upgrade.
    What are the "frills" that could be deleted? If Phase just used firmware to delete features, I for one would consider that a very cynical way to respond to price competition in the marketplace. I mean, what would be the reaction if BMW cut the price of an M3 by calling it an M3 Junior and selling it with the same engine but with a special electronic circuit that cut the power by 30%?

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    Re: Credo 100?

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    What are the "frills" that could be deleted? If Phase just used firmware to delete features, I for one would consider that a very cynical way to respond to price competition in the marketplace. I mean, what would be the reaction if BMW cut the price of an M3 by calling it an M3 Junior and selling it with the same engine but with a special electronic circuit that cut the power by 30%?
    My understanding is these two are not 100% identical:

    Hardware:

    1) Credo doesn't have buttons
    2) No Wi-fi (since H6D-100c is offering Wi-Fi, this will be hard to avoid going forward in order to complete on price)

    Software:

    1) Credo doesn't have Focus Mask
    2) You cannot reset to original factory setting. You need send it to the P1 for that (I was not aware of before buying it, however there was no need until now.).
    3) User Interface is different
    4) Different color profiles

    I think it is two different software systems, not just disabling few features and repackaging.
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    Senior Member Jamgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Credo 100?

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    What are the "frills" that could be deleted? If Phase just used firmware to delete features, I for one would consider that a very cynical way to respond to price competition in the marketplace. I mean, what would be the reaction if BMW cut the price of an M3 by calling it an M3 Junior and selling it with the same engine but with a special electronic circuit that cut the power by 30%?
    Actually Credo is already a no frills offering from Phase One. No wifi, gps, automatic levelling and keystone corrections in Capture One, reduced or no value added warranty, no long exposure capability unlike IQ260 or IQ380. They could skip HDMI too.

    So basically I would be ok if it is exactly like a Credo 60 except sharing the IQ3 100 sensor. If they can offer this for reduced price that would be great.

    All of this is Credo 100 talk is hypothetical and wishful thinking - so in the end it does not matter really
    Last edited by Jamgolf; 9th April 2016 at 17:28.
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    Re: Credo 100?

    Phase seem to have their own line of "budget" backs, eg the IQ150 vs the 250/350. Here's a novel idea, give Leaf the freedom to push the envelope and try make a better back rather than kneecap them for the sake of it.

    I have a Credo 60. I've never figured it out, but is its supposed better colour due to back firmware, or simple profiles in C1? Can one simply apply Leaf Credo profiles to an IQ back to get the same results?

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Credo 100?

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    I have a Credo 60. I've never figured it out, but is its supposed better colour due to back firmware, or simple profiles in C1? Can one simply apply Leaf Credo profiles to an IQ back to get the same results?
    No. I've asked for this many times and they are deliberately kept as different renderings/looks. It is true that most of the IQ & Credo hardware is common but the image processing is supposedly different.

    I'd be one of the first to load the leaf profiles on to my IQ images. I love the phase one renderings but I just prefer the leaf product style more. Maybe it's a reflection of starting with Kodak/Creo and then going to an Aptus before going to Phase One backs?
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: Credo 100?

    In the age of CCD chips, I could believe that. But now, with CMOS and the fact that everyone is using the same 100MP chip, I just don’t buy it. In a CMOS chip, each ‘pixel’ has it’s own charge-to-voltage conversion, and the sensor often includes amplifiers, noise-correction, and digitization circuits, so that the chip outputs digital bits. Given that all of that is configured by Sony, how are Leaf’s digital bits different from Phase One’s or Hasselblad’s when using the same sensor ? Of course, Leaf could have some firmware in the back itself tweaking the numbers read out from the chip before spitting out the raw file, but if that’s the case it should mean that a similar sort of manipulation could be done to a P1 file or HB file in post to get the 'Leaf look'.

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    Senior Member aztwang's Avatar
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    Re: Credo 100?

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Does your wife even know about your Credo 50 yet?

    Having the Credo 50 means it'll be easier to swap out a similar looking Credo 100----and maybe she won't notice. Let me know if you go for it----and I can make a Credo 50 sticker that you can put on top of the Credo 100 logo.

    ken
    I love it. What are friends for..A true partner in crime!,,,LOL
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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Credo 100?

    Quote Originally Posted by aztwang View Post
    I love it. What are friends for..A true partner in crime!,,,LOL
    We can argue about Hassy, Phase One, Leaf, etc. They are all expensive. So in the end game, it is all the same and a brotherhood here in Dante's Inferno: we gotta watch each other's backs!

    ken

    p.s. If needed, I can mass produce stacks of "P25+" stickers to cover up....
    Last edited by kdphotography; 10th April 2016 at 09:55.

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    Unhappy Re: Credo 100?

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    In the age of CCD chips, I could believe that. But now, with CMOS and the fact that everyone is using the same 100MP chip, I just don’t buy it. In a CMOS chip, each ‘pixel’ has it’s own charge-to-voltage conversion, and the sensor often includes amplifiers, noise-correction, and digitization circuits, so that the chip outputs digital bits. Given that all of that is configured by Sony, how are Leaf’s digital bits different from Phase One’s or Hasselblad’s when using the same sensor ? Of course, Leaf could have some firmware in the back itself tweaking the numbers read out from the chip before spitting out the raw file, but if that’s the case it should mean that a similar sort of manipulation could be done to a P1 file or HB file in post to get the 'Leaf look'.
    I didn't say that it couldn't be done. Just that given identical hardware, with both CCD and CMOS, Leaf and P1 have different rendering looks and have repeatedly told me that they wouldn't provide a simple set of profiles to alternate between their renderings. They want the brands to be different. Yes, it's tweaking bits not significantly different hardware as far as I'm aware.

    I dare say that someone will come along with some raw digger evaluations at some point to prove me wrong ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Credo 100?

    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    Given that all of that is configured by Sony, how are Leaf’s digital bits different from Phase One’s or Hasselblad’s when using the same sensor ?
    The color filter array depends on the camera manufacturer.

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    Re: Credo 100?

    Yeah, but the color array filter is physically attached to the surface of the sensor (unlike an infrared filter that sits above it); it’s not removable as such. If Leaf get Sony to fabricate sensors with a custom color array filter then ok ... but I’d bet a $ they are all the same.

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    Re: Credo 100?

    I hope a Credo 100 comes along, but you've got to wonder where they are going to pitch it price-wise without having a huge knock-on effect on their other products.

    If it's pitched to compete with Hasselblad at around the $30k point, then that will potentially cut sales of the IQ380 ($39k - $44k), the IQ360 ($32k - $37k) and IQ350 ($30k - $35k) off at the ankles.

    But then what about the IQ250 ($30k) ? The IQ260 ($32k) The IQ280 (?k - oddly seems to have disappeared) ? The IQ180 ($30k - $35k) ? The Credo 80 ($25k - $30k) ? Who buys them when you can have a 100MP CMOS Leaf 100 for $30k.

    Ok, so pitch it at $35k. Even then, the IQ380, 360 and 350 don't appear attractive, nor does the IQ180. Plus, for $33k HB are throwing in a camera as well.

    P1/Leaf's large product line become unwieldy at a time like this. What do you do - shift inventory before you announce a Credo 100 - and in the meantime lose potential customers to HB, or drop prices across the board to make room for it - and p**s people off who recently bought an IQ380, 360, 350 etc.

    Or maybe, just forget about a Credo 100 altogether ?

    Let's hope not.

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    Re: Credo 100?

    I could see a Leaf Credo 100 happening. As regards any future IQ1/2 backs I'd be VERY VERY surprised to see one. Phase One is committed to the IQ3 generation. The IQ150 was probably just an exception when the IQ250 came out. It seems to make no sense to produce new backs that don't support the full XF platform IMHO.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Senior Member Jamgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Credo 100?

    Credo 80 at $25k is $14k lower than IQ380. I bet more IQ380s are sold despite the premium. So a similar pricing strategy would put the hypothetical Credo 100 at $29k.

    That was before meaningful competition from Hasselblad. But its different now. H6D-100 at $33k including a H6 body means the 100c back is $26k.

    To fend off the H competition, P1 better price the Credo 100 at $25k.

    See - competition is good for consumers
    All hypothetical.
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    Re: Credo 100?

    Anyone heard anything about a Credo 100 ?

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    Re: Credo 100?

    Considering the Sony CMOS delay I would not expect to see a new back announced that has no chance of shipping for 5 or months.

    More likely of announced it will be around photokina time.

    Hasselblad is currently not shipping and Phase still might have troubles delivering 100MP cameras that were ordered in January.

    Paul C

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