Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Tech Camera Rodenstock 45mm compatibility

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    142
    Post Thanks / Like

    Tech Camera Rodenstock 45mm compatibility

    I want to thank you guys for the help so far with some initial questions relating to a technical camera. Collectively, you are a valuable resource.

    So...
    I am trying to leverage my Credo 60 with a Cambo WRS1200 to replace my Canon 1Dx with a 24mmTSE to shoot some architectural interiors. This is a small part of my work but I want to grow it and do it right. So, I thought using the Credo 60 with a tech cam would be the ticket. So, on to the question...

    I have a Credo 60. I have a Cambo WRS1200. I need a lens. Since this will be my initial foray into tech cam usage and I am limiting myself to architectural interiors, I identified a focal length between 40 and 50 to be most suitable for my use. This roughly correlates to a 35mm equivalent in the range of 24mm to 30mm.

    I am not diving in completely with this. I want to stick a toe in to see if I like the process and the results. And the process I intend to use is as follows....

    Vertical orientation of digital back for a tall image. Shift left, shift center, shift right. Stitch. Nice, resolute, chubby image. This is what I do with the 24mmTSE on my Canon (rail shift of camera in opposing direction).

    This said, I have a friend that has a Rodenstock 45mm f4.5 APO Sironar Digital MC Copal 0 for sale. It has a green ring. Example photo attached.

    My question is whether this will play nice with the Credo 60 and Cambo WRS1200.

    I know there are better, more costly, alternatives, but I can get into this without selling the farm and I specifically want to know the pros and cons of this specific lens with this specific back with the vertical orientation framing and sideways shifts explained above.

    Please offer any pros/cons comments relating to this.

    Thanks!
    Ken
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Little Rock AR
    Posts
    1,926
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    3

    Re: Tech Camera Rodenstock 45mm compatibility

    On the a Credo 60 I don't think this lens will be a good fit.

    The pink banded HR, Blue band HR-W would be a better fit.

    40mm or 50mm in the HR-W. Or the 35 or 55 in the HR.

    Paul C

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    142
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Tech Camera Rodenstock 45mm compatibility

    Paul,
    Does this mean it will not work? What detriments?
    Thanks,
    Ken


    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    On the a Credo 60 I don't think this lens will be a good fit.

    The pink banded HR, Blue band HR-W would be a better fit.

    40mm or 50mm in the HR-W. Or the 35 or 55 in the HR.

    Paul C

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Little Rock AR
    Posts
    1,926
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    3

    Re: Tech Camera Rodenstock 45mm compatibility

    Ken:

    I should work fine, it's just that this series of Rodenstocks were not designed around the more modern CCD backs like yours. The green band glass was designed for large format film (at least that is how I understand it), they won't have the same tolerances you need for movements on the Credo 60. The overall sharpness may be good on center, but with movements, the edges might suffer.

    You can also send Cambo an email, as they can tell you what to expect with that lens on your Cambo, their Customer support is above average.

    Paul C

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    565
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Tech Camera Rodenstock 45mm compatibility

    Rodenstock themselves state that the lens is good for digital backs with a pixel size as small as 9μm. The Credo 60 has a pixel size of 6μm...

    But, I've seen fantastically detailed images taken on DBs with lenses that weren't supposed to be 'up to snuff', so make of that what you will. I think great technique combined with judicious sharpening can go a long way.

    Myself, I would be inclined to look out for a S/K Apo-Digitar 47mm - they usually sell pretty cheap these days. It's a symmetrical design (as per the R/S), so it has a large image circle (something crazy like 110mm IIRC) and virtually no distortion - i.e. great for architecture. From the specs, it has a tad more resolving power than the R/S 45mm.

    The S/K Apo-Digitar 43mm would also be a good option, but since it's a newer lens the chance of picking one up on the used market is less likely. One just sold on eBay for $2400, in a T/S mount; given that Cambo will charge ~$1500 for just the T/S mount, that was a pretty nice deal.

    On the Cambo, both the 43 and 47 are available in T/S mounts (nice to have, even if tilting isn't in your future).

    You can also pick up Cambo-style (non T/S) mounts on eBay these days for ~$400. A bit rough and ready, no doubt, but much cheaper than having Cambo mount your lens (for what, $1000? $1200? $1500?) only to then find out you don't like how it behaves.

    Jim
    Last edited by f8orbust; 14th May 2016 at 16:51.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    142
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Tech Camera Rodenstock 45mm compatibility

    Jim,
    I appreciate your insight. I have to tell you though, this is a bit confusing with the naming conventions. Remember, newbie tech camera user here!
    So, a couple of questions...

    1. You refer to the SK 47mm APO Digitar. My friend has an SK 47mm f5.6 Super Angulon XL Multicoated lens. My research says it is the same as the Digitar. Is that right?
    2. How does the SK 47mm f/5.6 Super Angulon XL differ from the SK 47mm f/5.6 Super Angulon MC?
    3. Most important, again considering my use is solely interior architecture, how will the SK 47mm f/5.6 Super Angulon XL or SK 47mm f/5.6 Super Angulon MC work with my Credo 60?
    4. If you had to choose between the SK 47mm Super Angulon XL, SK 47mm Super Angulon MC or Rodenstock 45mm f/4.5 APO -Sironar Digital, which would you choose and why?


    Thanks,
    Ken


    Quote Originally Posted by f8orbust View Post
    Rodenstock themselves state that the lens is good for digital backs with a pixel size as small as 9μm. The Credo 60 has a pixel size of 6μm...

    But, I've seen fantastically detailed images taken on DBs with lenses that weren't supposed to be 'up to snuff', so make of that what you will. I think great technique combined with judicious sharpening can go a long way.

    Myself, I would be inclined to look out for a S/K Apo-Digitar 47mm - they usually sell pretty cheap these days. It's a symmetrical design (as per the R/S), so it has a large image circle (something crazy like 110mm IIRC) and virtually no distortion - i.e. great for architecture. From the specs, it has a tad more resolving power than the R/S 45mm.

    The S/K Apo-Digitar 43mm would also be a good option, but since it's a newer lens the chance of picking one up on the used market is less likely. One just sold on eBay for $2400, in a T/S mount; given that Cambo will charge ~$1500 for just the T/S mount, that was a pretty nice deal.

    On the Cambo, both the 43 and 47 are available in T/S mounts (nice to have, even if tilting isn't in your future).

    You can also pick up Cambo-style (non T/S) mounts on eBay these days for ~$400. A bit rough and ready, no doubt, but much cheaper than having Cambo mount your lens (for what, $1000? $1200? $1500?) only to then find out you don't like how it behaves.

    Jim

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Melbourne AU
    Posts
    181
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Tech Camera Rodenstock 45mm compatibility

    Ken,

    Just to confuse things further I have the SK 48 Apo-Helvetar which is the same lens, optimised for wide open in Alpa mount (this is now discontinued from Alpa I see as all SKs eventually will be). It's a cracking lens I use it on a Leaf Aptus-II 7 and I virtually never use an LCC even with 18mm of shift. Anders or somebody else similarly well informed will be able to tell you how relevant that is to your use case.

    What I do know is that it has virtually no distortion, unlike the Rodies. This doc from Alpa shows very clearly the distortion profile of some of these lenses.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,538
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Tech Camera Rodenstock 45mm compatibility

    Quote Originally Posted by Transposure View Post
    Jim,
    I appreciate your insight. I have to tell you though, this is a bit confusing with the naming conventions. Remember, newbie tech camera user here!
    So, a couple of questions...

    1. You refer to the SK 47mm APO Digitar. My friend has an SK 47mm f5.6 Super Angulon XL Multicoated lens. My research says it is the same as the Digitar. Is that right?
    2. How does the SK 47mm f/5.6 Super Angulon XL differ from the SK 47mm f/5.6 Super Angulon MC?
    3. Most important, again considering my use is solely interior architecture, how will the SK 47mm f/5.6 Super Angulon XL or SK 47mm f/5.6 Super Angulon MC work with my Credo 60?
    4. If you had to choose between the SK 47mm Super Angulon XL, SK 47mm Super Angulon MC or Rodenstock 45mm f/4.5 APO -Sironar Digital, which would you choose and why?


    Thanks,
    Ken
    The Super Angulon XL has the same type of design as the Digitar, but it's not the same lens. Instead it has a larger image circle to cover 4x5" (about 160mm), while the Digitar has "only" 110mm (which is large for digital). This translates to that the Super Angulon is not as sharp on digital as the 47XL.

    The Digitar 47XL, one of my most often used lenses by the way, is the old generation Digitars and is a little bit less sharp than the newer generation, where the 43XL fits. It's not bad though, it's virtually distortion free like all Digitars and has a large image circle which I think is important at this field of view.

    Then there is that "Super Angulon MC" (that is MC instead of XL), is that the same as the Digitar? I'm quite positive that the 47XL is an "analog" design that's been repackaged as digital, just a bit tighter tolerances in manufacturing. The tech data on the Super Angulon MC is very similar, but not exactly the same. The Digitar is said to have 47.6mm effective focal length, while the MC has 47.5mm, image circle of the Digitar is 110mm, 123mm of the MC, but image circle size is always a bit floating as it's not a hard edge rolloff, and the Digitar is defined at f/11 and the MC at f/22.

    It could be the same lens, my guess is that it's the same but with some very minor adjustment. In any case I would expect a good copy of an MC to perform very similar to the Digitar.

    Very few using Dalsa 6um backs use anything different that Rodenstock Digaron lenses. They're sharper and more retrofocus which the Dalsa sensor likes. The drawback is the higher cost, weight and that they have some distortion due to the retrofocus design, plus a smaller image circle. If you write down your movements you can correct distortion in post-processing though.

    It should be noted that Digaron image circles are pretty sharp to the hard edge, while Digitar image circles softens a fair bit, but I still prefer the latter as there's often things like a sky or other stuff that doesn't need the sharpest rendering, and Digaron's hard edge can give penumbra issues. For indoor achitecture you often need sharp rendering all the way though...

    Dalsa lacks light shielded pixels like the Kodaks had, which means that symmetric wide angles can yield problems. You get heavy color cast, and if shifted by a large amount you get crosstalk that even LCC can't cancel out. The onset is gradual and subject-dependent which means it's difficult to specify a limit which works or not. The 47XL actually has the same angle of view as the shorter 35XL (as the former have larger image circle), which means that if you move to the edge you're stressing the sensor just as much as with an 35XL. That will be problematic concerning LCC.

    The Angulon XL is probably not as sharp as the MC so of those two the MC would be the choice. The Sironar-Digital 45mm I don't know much about, but I would expect it to be less sharp than the MC. If it is like it usually is it has a little bit more distortion than the Schneider, but a little bit less taxing on the sensor too, no huge differences though.

    Personally I don't think any of the lenses is a great choice for that back. I'd go for a Rodenstock Digaron-W 40 and do distortion correction in software. However the other lenses will work although maybe not so good with maximum shift, you could run into sharpness issues before LCC issues. Roughly speaking maybe you should count with having 90mm image circle from them. Of those I would choose the MC as I think it's the sharpest, and it has virtually no distortion.
    Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •