Actuation count: test shots or used equipment?

[DMarc]

Good evening,
I have had an XF camera and IQ3-100 for a couple of months now and have a shot count of around 800 captures plus, say, 200 thethered captures.
I found out from the "About" screen on the back that the camera discloses some 1,500 shots for the camera and 3,300 in total for the four lenses I have.
Has anybody experienced the same please and possibly got an explanation from PhaseOne?
The explanation I have received so far from the dealer is that 700 shots for test purposes is "normal". If this is the case, I am also wondering why they would not reset the counters(?).
I am very happy with the equipment, it is amazing actually, but the above "buggers" me and I would like to get to the bottom of it -- if possible.
Thank you,
Marc

 

[stephengilbert]

I love this: I'm not alone.

This doesn't matter very much, but it'd bug me too.

 

[voidshatter]

From the "About" screen, both my IQ260 and IQ250 had 10 exposures when I received them.

My friend's newly ordered IQ3100 also had less than 57 exposures from a screen capture I can tell (and was most likely also 10 from the beginning if I guess).

I believe this number can be flash'ed arbitrarily (just like the Nikon cameras). Though the virginity of a digital back is hardly correlated to the condition/milestone, it surely is something that would bug us for the price we paid (considering how much value loss we get if we immediately re-sell it as second hand!).

 

[Transposure]

The explanation I have received so far from the dealer is that 700 shots for test purposes is "normal".

Umm, no.
Let's look at some typical in-the-field usage as a point of comparison....

It is a good (and pretty well known) general estimate for event shooters that a client can expect 100 photos per hour present. Again, it is an estimation and doesn't take into account shooters that spray and pray. Having shot weddings for years, this 100/hour estimate holds up pretty well. So, now let's add in the crap shots before culling. So, we will say 150/hour are shot and the client sees 100 of them. That would mean, in a situation where you are shooting almost 3 pictures a minute consistently, you would be shooting an event that is about 5 hours long.

Today, I had a photoshoot that lasted about 4 hours. I shot 657 photos. I shot a bunch on burst (not typical for me but needed today) since there were action shots that I did not want to miss.

The point of this comparison in my mind? Well, 700 pictures is a full blown event (like a wedding, a game, a bar mitzvah, etc.), not a test. Even if you imagine the "tester" is shooting one shot every 10 seconds to "test" the camera or back, that would be 700x10=7000 seconds or almost 2 hours of constant "testing". Umm, no.

As others have pointed out, I can see 10 shots, 20 shots or even 30 shots as test shots. But 700 test shots? Seriously? Who is kidding who?

Sounds like a demo product to me.

 

[gerald.d]

Concur with the above. 700 is ridiculous - IIRC, my IQ3 100 had 14 shots on it when new.

In your position I'd be having very strong words with the dealer.

Kind regards,

Gerald.

 

[DMarc]

Thank you to everybody who answered.
What I have found out so far is that the camera will count two focal plane shutter openings when the camera is switched on, i.e. plus 2 in the FPS Count and 0 in the Mirror Count.
Pictures taken Count as plus 1 in both the FPS Count and Mirror Count. In Live View, only the FPS Count is incremented.
So, it seems that the way this was implemented is to reflect the actual movements of the shutter and mirror, rather than to have these linked to the number of captures.
Regarding the lenses, there would also be some double counting, depending on whether the leaf shutter is used or not.
In my case, I can understand the number of captures displayed by the camera, but still need to reconcile the numbers for the lenses.
In any case, I will now make sure that the box with a new lens is sealed and will check the numbers immediately.
Marc

 

[jerome_m]

So, it seems that the way this was implemented is to reflect the actual movements of the shutter and mirror, rather than to have these linked to the number of captures.
Regarding the lenses, there would also be some double counting, depending on whether the leaf shutter is used or not.

For a leaf shutter lens (any camera), the shutter is operated 4 times for each picture taken:
1: close shutter
(raise mirror, open FP shutter)
2&3: rapidly open and close shutter for exposure
(lower mirror, close FP shutter)
4: open shutter.

Possibly, the shutter is also operated for checking/calibration at power up or down or when a lens is mounted. Live view and mirror raise may also operate the shutter.

Try to take a few pictures, mount and dismount lens, etc... and see how the counter reacts.

 

[DMarc]

For a leaf shutter lens (any camera), the shutter is operated 4 times for each picture taken:
1: close shutter
(raise mirror, open FP shutter)
2&3: rapidly open and close shutter for exposure
(lower mirror, close FP shutter)
4: open shutter.

Possibly, the shutter is also operated for checking/calibration at power up or down or when a lens is mounted. Live view and mirror raise may also operate the shutter.

Try to take a few pictures, mount and dismount lens, etc... and see how the counter reacts.

Yes, this is also my understanding now. Thank you for the explanation.

I received a new lens today, in a box that was in a box that was in some sort of sealed plastic bag. By all accounts a new lens. The lens has an actuation count of 144, which I assume was for testing.

I don't understand why they do not reset those counters before shipping, but for the rest that is enough explanation for me.

Marc

 

[MomentsForZen]

I hope that it is OK if I ask something that is tangential to the thread.

----------
Are the actuation counts used as part of anyone's workflow?

For accounting purposes?
For scheduling maintenance?
Other ????

I can imagine the maintenance application - i.e., a bit like the mileage on a vehicle odometer and the various scheduled services. ???

Also - it wasn't clear to me whether the camera and the back have separate counts?

And, is there an expected life span in terms of actuations for a ...
a) lens
b) camera
c) back

Thank-you in advance for any insights that you can share.

... MomentsForZen (Richard)

 

[jerome_m]

And, is there an expected life span in terms of actuations for a ...
a) lens
b) camera
c) back

For the shutter in a lens or the mirror mechanism and shutter in a camera, typically in the order of 100K. Maybe more on recent devices.
For the back: no, as there are no moving parts.

 

[Steve Hendrix]

I hope that it is OK if I ask something that is tangential to the thread.

----------
Are the actuation counts used as part of anyone's workflow?

For accounting purposes?
For scheduling maintenance?
Other ????

I can imagine the maintenance application - i.e., a bit like the mileage on a vehicle odometer and the various scheduled services. ???

Also - it wasn't clear to me whether the camera and the back have separate counts?

And, is there an expected life span in terms of actuations for a ...
a) lens
b) camera
c) back

Thank-you in advance for any insights that you can share.

... MomentsForZen (Richard)

When I am asked about this I respond that there are no native moving components inside the digital back. However, there is human interfacing with the internal components via insertion of CF cards, insertion of interface cables. Depending on how carefully one did this, condition of the boards attached to those entry points potentially could be weakened or compromised. Did you have a hostile assistant that worked for you and sought revenge by inserting a firewire cable as fast and carelessly as possible? Or a devoted assistant who appreciated and respected the relationship? 5,000 actuations with hostile assistant vs 80,000 shots with devoted assistant? Is that roughly equivalent?

Generally digital backs are pretty reliable devices from a maintenance and repair standpoint. Many users never send their digital back in for service. However, it is extremely, extremely rare that a sensor needs replacement. I have had only 2 such instances in my entire time spent providing these solutions over the past 16 years or so. More common, when something does go wrong, would be a board replacement, or perhaps a re-calibration of the sensor (which can often be performed remotely and not even have to go in for service).

So, choose and treat your assistants well, your equipment may operate worry free for a longer period of time!


Steve Hendrix/CI

 

[MomentsForZen]

Many thanks for the insights into the lifespan of the various parts of the system.

Another factor that feeds into the (usable) lifespan of a digital back would be the compatibility of the storage system with standard computing systems. Some media can fall out of favour very quickly, leaving it impossible (or very difficult) to access the image files.

... MomentsForZen (Richard)