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Fuji GFX 50s first impressions

G

gsmith

New member
Fuji delivered as promised on Feb 28th! Ace Photo in VA got the GFX 50s today and each with a 63mm lens but only two. I have been on their list since June of last year first for the Hasselblad X1D then when it was delayed 6 months I switched to the Fuji. What impressed me first was just how big and bright the EVF is and even compared to the Leica SL which I also have. First impressions are not always reliable but it is not a Leica SL or a Hasselblad X1D with respect to an elegant shape and feel. The GFX seemed a bit awkward to hold with the very wide base and the joy stick compared to what is on the SL, a bit small but definitely usable and great Fuji included in the design. Given I will use the GFX 99% of the time on a tripod, ergonomics is not a big issue for me. The other impression after 30 min pushing the many GFX buttons to see what they all do as this is my first Fuji was the easy of use and logical menu system being intuitive and very responsive; more to come after I have a few days with the Fuji.

Oh, the guys at Ace are great if you need anything photographic and they also got an X1D yesterday that was on the shelf so I assume available.

Cheers/gale
 
Quentin_Bargate

Quentin_Bargate

Well-known member
gsmith said:
Fuji delivered as promised on Feb 28th! Ace Photo in VA got the GFX 50s today and each with a 63mm lens but only two. I have been on their list since June of last year first for the Hasselblad X1D then when it was delayed 6 months I switched to the Fuji. What impressed me first was just how big and bright the EVF is and even compared to the Leica SL which I also have. First impressions are not always reliable but it is not a Leica SL or a Hasselblad X1D with respect to an elegant shape and feel. The GFX seemed a bit awkward to hold with the very wide base and the joy stick compared to what is on the SL, a bit small but definitely usable and great Fuji included in the design. Given I will use the GFX 99% of the time on a tripod, ergonomics is not a big issue for me. The other impression after 30 min pushing the many GFX buttons to see what they all do as this is my first Fuji was the easy of use and logical menu system being intuitive and very responsive; more to come after I have a few days with the Fuji.

Oh, the guys at Ace are great if you need anything photographic and they also got an X1D yesterday that was on the shelf so I assume available.

Cheers/gale
Click to expand...
Mine is now in, should have time to collect body + Macro on Tuesday next week.
 
A

archivue

Active member
i'm looking forward to see how it can handles mouvements mounted on a combo or arca camera !
 
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P

Paul2660

Well-known member
I am willing to bet movements with normal tech lenses will look very much like the IQ150, pretty much a hard red color cast with considerable loss of saturation. Even though the GFX will mount a bit further back than an IQ150 and tech lens the chip is known for extreme color cast when shifted.

The smaller version 36MP in the A7r has a very similar issue, hard red color cast when shifted.

As C1 will not support the GFX, that only leaves Adobe and LR/ACR and their solution. I tried it only once on some IQ260 images and found it less than adequate. Never went back. C1 does a very good job on the shifts from the IQ150 in reducing the red color cast. I don't believe that P1 ever went back and fixed the wavy banding that is also present with movements. This was fixed for the IQ100 however in C1 10.

If someone figures out a way to mount either the Canon TS-E 17mm or 24mm or the Nikkor 19mm I feel the results will be much better as the lenses are designed around a mirror box and thus might be pushed further out. So far Cambo has stated it won't be possible for them to make such an adapter for the Canon glass.

Paul Caldwell
 
I

Iktinos

Not Available
Paul2660 said:
I am willing to bet movements with normal tech lenses will look very much like the IQ150, pretty much a hard red color cast with considerable loss of saturation. Even though the GFX will mount a bit further back than an IQ150 and tech lens the chip is known for extreme color cast when shifted.

The smaller version 36MP in the A7r has a very similar issue, hard red color cast when shifted.

As C1 will not support the GFX, that only leaves Adobe and LR/ACR and their solution. I tried it only once on some IQ260 images and found it less than adequate. Never went back. C1 does a very good job on the shifts from the IQ150 in reducing the red color cast. I don't believe that P1 ever went back and fixed the wavy banding that is also present with movements. This was fixed for the IQ100 however in C1 10.

If someone figures out a way to mount either the Canon TS-E 17mm or 24mm or the Nikkor 19mm I feel the results will be much better as the lenses are designed around a mirror box and thus might be pushed further out. So far Cambo has stated it won't be possible for them to make such an adapter for the Canon glass.

Paul Caldwell
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It is true that lenses that have their rear element distant from the image area used, will perform better with the 33x44mm Cmos sensor. However, on the GFX Fuji uses an exclusive to them version of the sensor, with specially designed by Fuji microlenses, which should provide improved performance even when dedicated lenses for tech cameras are used.

Cambo didn't state that "it won't be possible for them to make an adapter for Canon lenses"... they said that "they don't provide the current board with the Actus-GFX" IMO, they have to revise the design of the board because the way it now is, the GFX grip will hit the lens board if the camera is turned to "portrait" orientation. Of course, it will be a good idea if (when redesigning the board) they will recess the mount a bit further back.
 
M

marc aurel

Active member
Iktinos said:
Cambo didn't state that "it won't be possible for them to make an adapter for Canon lenses"... they said that "they don't provide the current board with the Actus-GFX" IMO, they have to revise the design of the board because the way it now is, the GFX grip will hit the lens board if the camera is turned to "portrait" orientation. Of course, it will be a good idea if (when redesigning the board) they will recess the mount a bit further back.
Click to expand...
A while ago I emailed Cambo R&D and asked about the possibility of a GFX version of their Canon lens board. This is what they answered:

"The Fujifilm G mount has a focal flange distance (FFD) of 26.7mm, the Canon lens has a FFD of 44.0mm, than you will have a distance 17.3mm left, this is not enough space to construct a front and rear frame including a bellows to achieve tilt, swing and shift movements. So unfortunately within the Actus system it in physically impossible to use Canon lenses on the Fujifilm GFX camera.

Therefore we are thinking about designing an fixed adapter between the GFX camera and Canon lenses, this way the Canon TS-E lenses can be used on the GFX and you have still some tilt/swing and shift options for the TS-E lens itself."
 
P

Paul2660

Well-known member
Per this site, per CamboUSA.

"At this time due to the flange distance between the bayonet and sensor it does not appear that the Canon adapter will work at all with the GFX. Physically it would fit, but the camera will not be able to focus."

Why make an adapter if you loose infinity focus?

I realize that Fuji is making a big deal about their "special" microlens array for the Sony 50MP, personally I don't hold too much for that. I have never seen any advantage to X-Trans (I realize this is not x-Trans) that Fuji claims is there. However I have seen a lot of the negative issues that X-Trans brings to the table in regards to raw democasic work.

But even if the new array helps, there is no way I can see it removing it all together, thus you are back to needing a LCC, and here we go full circle, a good software to process it. The only one I am aware of is C1 which has clearly stated they will not support the GFX. So if you want movements with wides there is a problem. A big one based on what I have seen from the IQ150 before LCC application.

Paul Caldwell
 
M

marc aurel

Active member
Paul2660 said:
Per this site, per CamboUSA.

"At this time due to the flange distance between the bayonet and sensor it does not appear that the Canon adapter will work at all with the GFX. Physically it would fit, but the camera will not be able to focus."

Why make an adapter if you loose infinity focus?

Paul Caldwell
Click to expand...
I think they want to say that their current Canon electronic lens board mounted on the actus will not work because of the small difference in flange distance. But a fixed adapter WITHOUT the Actus in between would of course be possible. They just have to use their design of the Canon board for the Wide RS and add a GFX mount on the back. That would be possible. I very much hope they will do it.

I had the GFX from yesterday evening until today at noon. My local dealer in Berlin has a Demo GFX with the 63mm f2.8. They did not charge me anything for renting it. Great camera. Image quality is amazing (although I only could view jpgs so far, I saved the RAWs and wait for LR support.)
 
I

Iktinos

Not Available
marc aurel said:
A while ago I emailed Cambo R&D and asked about the possibility of a GFX version of their Canon lens board. This is what they answered:

"The Fujifilm G mount has a focal flange distance (FFD) of 26.7mm, the Canon lens has a FFD of 44.0mm, than you will have a distance 17.3mm left, this is not enough space to construct a front and rear frame including a bellows to achieve tilt, swing and shift movements. So unfortunately within the Actus system it in physically impossible to use Canon lenses on the Fujifilm GFX camera.

Therefore we are thinking about designing an fixed adapter between the GFX camera and Canon lenses, this way the Canon TS-E lenses can be used on the GFX and you have still some tilt/swing and shift options for the TS-E lens itself."
Click to expand...
IMO, 17.3 mm is enough space, as one can "spend" (generously) 7.3mm on the camera mount and (if have the lens mount a little recessed in the lens board) have all the remaining 10mm used for tolerance between the two standards. I will therefore insist that the problem is more with the GFX grip which is causing problems on how to house the electronics in the lens mount, which has then to be larger if the electronics will have to be housed in it.

Note that the GFX's grip will protrude a bit in front of the lens mount if a lens aimed for mirrobox FF DSLR is to be used and the lens is focused to infinity.
 
I

Iktinos

Not Available
Paul2660 said:
Per this site, per CamboUSA.

"At this time due to the flange distance between the bayonet and sensor it does not appear that the Canon adapter will work at all with the GFX. Physically it would fit, but the camera will not be able to focus."

Why make an adapter if you loose infinity focus?

I realize that Fuji is making a big deal about their "special" microlens array for the Sony 50MP, personally I don't hold too much for that. I have never seen any advantage to X-Trans (I realize this is not x-Trans) that Fuji claims is there. However I have seen a lot of the negative issues that X-Trans brings to the table in regards to raw democasic work.

But even if the new array helps, there is no way I can see it removing it all together, thus you are back to needing a LCC, and here we go full circle, a good software to process it. The only one I am aware of is C1 which has clearly stated they will not support the GFX. So if you want movements with wides there is a problem. A big one based on what I have seen from the IQ150 before LCC application.

Paul Caldwell
Click to expand...
The key words on their statement is "at this time..." and then "the Canon adapter..." which I take as "the CURRENT Canon adapter (we have)" while you, (I presume) you take as "ANY Canon adapter..." But if it was a compatibility with the mount issue, why they then make the "dummy" adapter?
 
M

marc aurel

Active member
Aside from the question of the adaption of Canon lenses:
Somewhere in this thread I read it was useless without pics. So I start with a fast test with the 63mm f2.8 lens and my book shelf. To see how center and corner performance are with this lens. Boring, yes of course (I try to add stuff I took outside tomorrow). I attach 100% crops at f2.8 and at f8.0, taken from a spot relatively close to the center and in the corner. All JPGs straight out of camera. Be sure to click on crops to see them at 100%.

Depth of field is very shallow at f2.8. Some books are closer to the camera and you can see that by softening (e.g. the name of the photographer "Bae, Bien-U" on the book is definitely out of focus, it is about 8 cm closer to the camera then the orange linen book). Corners are slightly softer at f2.8, but not too bad. At f8.0 it's excellent (as you should expect).
 

Attachments

I

Iktinos

Not Available
marc aurel said:
Aside from the question of the adaption of Canon lenses:
Somewhere in this thread I read it was useless without pics. So I start with a fast test with the 63mm f2.8 lens and my book shelf. To see how center and corner performance are with this lens. Boring, yes of course (I try to add stuff I took outside tomorrow). I attach 100% crops at f2.8 and at f8.0, taken from a spot relatively close to the center and in the corner. All JPGs straight out of camera. Be sure to click on crops to see them at 100%.

Depth of field is very shallow at f2.8. Some books are closer to the camera and you can see that by softening (e.g. the name of the photographer "Bae, Bien-U" on the book, which is about 8 cm closer to the camera then the orange linen book is definitely out of focus). Corners are slightly softer at f2.8, but not too bad. At f8.0 it's excellent (as you should expect).
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Couldn't help to notice that you are a (serious) chess player! What a good thing to be!:clap:
 
CAMBOUSA

CAMBOUSA

Member
marc aurel said:
A while ago I emailed Cambo R&D and asked about the possibility of a GFX version of their Canon lens board. This is what they answered:

"The Fujifilm G mount has a focal flange distance (FFD) of 26.7mm, the Canon lens has a FFD of 44.0mm, than you will have a distance 17.3mm left, this is not enough space to construct a front and rear frame including a bellows to achieve tilt, swing and shift movements. So unfortunately within the Actus system it in physically impossible to use Canon lenses on the Fujifilm GFX camera.

Therefore we are thinking about designing an fixed adapter between the GFX camera and Canon lenses, this way the Canon TS-E lenses can be used on the GFX and you have still some tilt/swing and shift options for the TS-E lens itself."
Click to expand...
This is exactly right. It's a matter of FFD. Thats not to say that fixed adaptors aren't possible, but Cambo isn't in the fixed adaptor business at this current time. If anything changes and a product is created that works, trust me, I'll be the first person to tell everyone here at GetDPI.
 
M

marc aurel

Active member
Fuji GFX first impressions - EVF and LCD:

From my 18 hours with a demo unit of the GFX I want to share some impressions and remarks. I won’t repeat things that I found in other hands-on-reviews and will concentrate more on random aspects I noticed that I liked or disliked.

EVF:

1. People who like EVFs often say it is because "what you see is what you get". I disagree. I am an architectural photographer and deal with high contrast situations and my final image is not what an EVF shows. I push and pull shadows and highlights a lot. That is why I still prefer optical finders to compose an image. But for liveview focusing this EVF is way better (my eyes can’t focus that close any more so from an LCD I have to move back a bit further than I wish). The diopter control works perfect on the EVF for me. So liveview focusing though the finder is very good on that camera.

2. With the GFX there are settings for highlight tone and shadow tone. These settings are reflected in the actual EVF image. Great! Shadows are not that blotchy as on other EVFs. Set both to minus values for best shadow and highlight recovery in the EVF. But it could still be better.

3. You could also push dynamic range settings up to 400%. It helps even more for evaluationg high contrast scenes in the EVF. BUT: extended dynamic range settings are only available when you use higher ISO settings than ISO 100, which degrades image quality. So sadly that is a no go for RAW shooters. FUJI - please think of a better solution.

4. Very good implentation of switching on and off the peaking feature: just press the rear command dial for a second. So easy. No menu stuff.

5. Very good idea: when you switch on the histogramm using a function button that will switch on highlight alert at the same time. I love that.

6. Not perfect: if you use an aperture stopdown button while you are in magnified liveview - image jumps back to full image. That is stupid. I want to be able to evaluate sharpness stopped down in magnified view. My 5DsR does that and it is so helpful.

7. And - yes (to repeat one thing that you can read in a lot of places): EVF resolution and magnification are great. Best EVF I have used in that respect. And yes, it has a bit more lag than smaller sensor EVFs because of the slower readout speed of the large sensor. I don’t care because I usually work from a tripod.


Touchscreen LCD:

1. Resolution and clarity of that display are amazing. Definitely better than the one on my 5DsR (and I like that a lot too).

2. The options for swiping and double tapping are all great and very intuitive, as described in other places.

3. When you double tap while reviewing images, the screen jumps to the used focus point. That is great for a lot of use cases. But there seems to be no option to make it jump to the part of the image you tapped on. That would be a useful option to choose from (firmware upgrade?)
 
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