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Thread: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

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    Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    So I am upgrading my computer and trying to decide if it is also time to change my file management workflow. I am fairly new to Phase One backs and for the previous 10 years or so it was Hasselblad, so my workflow for the past few years has involved Lightroom for file management. Now that Capture One Pro is an option, does anyone have a recommendation on what you have found to be the best workflow for managing files?
    Thanks in advance,
    Greg

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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    I still use Lightroom as Capture One in my opinion is pretty bad in actual file management... sadly the IQ4 still isnít supported. So for that I use a organized folder structure.
    Christopher Hauser
    http://www.chauser.eu
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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    Hi Greg,

    I hope this makes sense, may be convoluted but I am used to it now. It may give you some ideas to create yor own workflow:

    I create a new catalog for the specific shoot, trip or whatever event it was and import a set of RAW files into it. In C1 I rate, select, edit and export a ProPhoto 16 bit TIFF as a master file which I then can edit in Photoshop if needed and output different file types, sizes, etc...

    In the computer, for editing, the files are in a PCIe flash drive for the fastest access possible with the gear I have. Once done they get backed up in other locations so I always leave my working / scratch drives lean for fast access.

    In te computer the project folder normally contains:

    "RAW Originals for Archive folder" (has a set of RAW files for backup that I never import, touch, they just live there in case the imported ones get corrupted, then I will always have another set in addition to the ones backup up on other volumes/cloud)
    "RAW for Edit folder" (the RAW files I will add to the Capture 1 catalog, which are a clone of the ones in the folder mentioned above)
    Capture one Catalog (I always label them with the date, for example "Session xxxxx 12062019"
    "Masters folder" (where the 16bit TIFF exports will live)
    "JPEG folder" (where the different size JPG live, from the master I make a set of 1200px, 1600px and 2000px wide to have handy.
    "PRINTED folder" (the files I printed that I did proofing on)

    Once done this whole folder gets backed up to my storage RAID, cloned to another drive using Chronosync, backed up in time machine and uploaded to my Backblaze cloud backup.

    I don't do this for a living and normally don't shoot crazy amounts of files so the C1 catalog capabilities are good enough for my needs. If I were doing thousands of files at once then it would probably not be the fastest way for cataloging and selecting and would probably need to use photomechanic or FastRAW viewer to speed things up, but I like leaving everything in one application.

    Hope this helps.

    Rodrigo
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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    Hello Greg, I've just been through the setup of a new computer so some of this may help. I refuse to have Adobe software on my computer. Every time I've had it there I ended up feeling like I was being choked with an invasive weed.

    This is a totally Capture One workflow and based on some patterns suggested by C1.

    I have a master catalogue into which everything eventually is imported. When I shoot or have a project or travel somewhere I set up a session - separate to the catalogue. I import to that session - or shoot in that session if tethered - and apply adjustments, keywords etc in that session. I keep some adjustment pre-sets that I use when importing to set meta-data and I keep a keyword library. On longer trips I have an import set up that creates a finder folder for each day of photographs. I drag and drop those folders into the session favourites area of the session as they are created so that they are easily available. It lets me use an approach like "Tuesday, that was Kyoto so let's add a "Japan|Kyoto" keyword to that folder of images.

    Once I have finished active work on that project or trip I import the session to the master catalogue so I only have one place to search and find images.

    All Capture One catalogues and sessions live in one top level folder - divided up by further folders depending on whether they are imported into the master catalogue or not. Once imported to the master catalogue that is the only place an image is worked on.

    On the road I have a routine where I import the day's pics, so they get presets done to them and the folders created. I also do a first pick through of the images and get rid of any black frames or other obvious crap. Then I run a backup to Backblaze B2 and another backup to a local very fast SSD for the whole C1 storage top level folder. For those backups I use QBackup and I also have scheduled backups to those locations written as LaunchAgent plists so they run every 3 hours. If the laptop doesn't have network or the external SSD isn't connected, then the scheduled backups fail gracefully and run the next time they are scheduled. I tend to run a backup after any editing session as well. It means I don't lose much and QBackup is smart about dealing with deltas. In addition a continuous sync runs to my Synology NAS back home. When I travel the laptop and the SSD drive are in different bags - one in the cabin and one in the hold. I'm not paranoid or anything...

    I also have Resilio Sync running on that master folder to various other computers. It's a wonderful piece of software to create your own personal cloud and very efficient.

    My biggest issue is that the C1 master storage is going to have to move from my local SSD in the laptop to a large, fast, small, directly attachable storage at some point soon. I can't effectively run from the NAS - neither it nor the network is fast enough for that - and the local internal SSD is not large enough. So quite soon the working sessions will be on the internal storage and the Master on a directly attachable Thunderbolt 3 storage. I haven't decided just what yet.

    Because I don't use Lightroom I can't do a comparison but this works for me. Hope that's of some help.

    Mike

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Haag View Post
    So I am upgrading my computer and trying to decide if it is also time to change my file management workflow. I am fairly new to Phase One backs and for the previous 10 years or so it was Hasselblad, so my workflow for the past few years has involved Lightroom for file management. Now that Capture One Pro is an option, does anyone have a recommendation on what you have found to be the best workflow for managing files?
    Thanks in advance,
    Greg
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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    Snap Rodrigo!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mexecutioner View Post
    Hi Greg,

    I hope this makes sense, may be convoluted but I am used to it now. It may give you some ideas to create yor own workflow:

    [snip]

    Hope this helps.

    Rodrigo

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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    A hybrid solution:

    - snaps and general reference/use photos (say for documentation, or casual shoots) live in Lightroom. Sorted largely by date and keyword.

    - serious shots are processed in C1. I make a new session for each shoot, listing camera (helps me remember), place and date, and do all the work for that shot in that session.

    - at years end, all the output from all the sessions of that year (about 30 or so...) is put into a C1 catalog, so better processed images are all collected into one place. Ideally this should have the raw file too, so that it would be only place needed to find the original image, but haven't done that. Each session file is backed up after the images have been processed.

    There are likely better ways to go - but this way makes practical sense. Aperture was a really good digital image manager, far easier that LR, but sadly is no longer supported after 10.14. LR is too hard to manage as a main custodian (at least for me).

    Would be interested in other people's workflow.
    www.gigi-photos.com
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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    I use a slight variation of what Geoff mentions above.

    For me all my shots go into lightroom, sorted/named by date and keyworded
    That way I can go to one place and find all my photos

    In case a shoot (or individual shot) needs to be processed in C1 I just put it in a Lightroom collection called "processed in C1"
    I then import the same file from the same location as referenced by Lightroom into C1 and process it further there.

    In lightroom you can easily check if a shot is in a collection, in the library grid view there's a little icon in the thumbnail with two rectangles and when you hover over it will tell you the shot is in a collection, clicking will tell you which collection(s), so as soon as the collection "processed in C1" is shown I know I have to go to C1 to get the final rendering. If not the Lightroom rendering is the "end state". If the shot is not in any collection the icon won't show, so don't worry if you don't see it.

    This is just one way to do this and there are many more (maybe even better) ways, but I find Lightroom the best tool for at least managing all my photos and rendering 95% of them. C1 is a great program and raw converter, but indeed a terrible database and asset manager, so I just don't use it for that.

    Hope this helps.
    My Pics
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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    I have a similar, but different hybrid approach. < 2010 when I started using MF, I was using LR exclusively. I would create a WIP file every year (ex. "2008_WIP") with an associated LR Catalog. Selects from that year's catalog would get imported into the MSTR catalog. The basic purpose was so I could have all the select images in my MSTR file with me at all times, storing them on an external drive. That kept the size of the drive to a minimum.

    Once I switched to MF, I did the same thing with C1, either catalogs or sessions. Difference being the images imported into the LR MSTR catalog from C1 were all tiffs instead of raw or DNG files.

    Today most of my files are processed in C1, so I now use sessions pretty much exclusively. Again grouped by year, essentially replacing how I used to use the "2008_WIP" file. Selects from each session are exported as tiff files and imported into the same old LR MSTR catalog.

    So, each year:
    2018
    Session A
    Session B
    ...

    2019
    Session A
    Session B
    ...

    While the MSTR LR catalog continues to build with all select images. I can still carry them all with me on a 2TB hard drive. It is about 1/10 of the total image storage.

    Dave
    How glorious a greeting the sun gives the mountains! - John Muir

    davechewphotography.com
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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    Quote Originally Posted by Mexecutioner View Post
    Hi Greg,

    I hope this makes sense, may be convoluted but I am used to it now. It may give you some ideas to create yor own workflow:

    I create a new catalog for the specific shoot, trip or whatever event it was and import a set of RAW files into it. In C1 I rate, select, edit and export a ProPhoto 16 bit TIFF as a master file which I then can edit in Photoshop if needed and output different file types, sizes, etc...

    In the computer, for editing, the files are in a PCIe flash drive for the fastest access possible with the gear I have. Once done they get backed up in other locations so I always leave my working / scratch drives lean for fast access.

    In te computer the project folder normally contains:

    "RAW Originals for Archive folder" (has a set of RAW files for backup that I never import, touch, they just live there in case the imported ones get corrupted, then I will always have another set in addition to the ones backup up on other volumes/cloud)
    "RAW for Edit folder" (the RAW files I will add to the Capture 1 catalog, which are a clone of the ones in the folder mentioned above)
    Capture one Catalog (I always label them with the date, for example "Session xxxxx 12062019"
    "Masters folder" (where the 16bit TIFF exports will live)
    "JPEG folder" (where the different size JPG live, from the master I make a set of 1200px, 1600px and 2000px wide to have handy.
    "PRINTED folder" (the files I printed that I did proofing on)

    Once done this whole folder gets backed up to my storage RAID, cloned to another drive using Chronosync, backed up in time machine and uploaded to my Backblaze cloud backup.

    I don't do this for a living and normally don't shoot crazy amounts of files so the C1 catalog capabilities are good enough for my needs. If I were doing thousands of files at once then it would probably not be the fastest way for cataloging and selecting and would probably need to use photomechanic or FastRAW viewer to speed things up, but I like leaving everything in one application.

    Hope this helps.

    Rodrigo
    Rodrigo,
    Thank you very much for the detailed explanation, it does make a lot of sense. I am in Disney World with my family, but I may have a follow up question when we get back home.
    Thanks again,
    Greg

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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelorus View Post
    Hello Greg, I've just been through the setup of a new computer so some of this may help. I refuse to have Adobe software on my computer. Every time I've had it there I ended up feeling like I was being choked with an invasive weed.

    This is a totally Capture One workflow and based on some patterns suggested by C1.

    I have a master catalogue into which everything eventually is imported. When I shoot or have a project or travel somewhere I set up a session - separate to the catalogue. I import to that session - or shoot in that session if tethered - and apply adjustments, keywords etc in that session. I keep some adjustment pre-sets that I use when importing to set meta-data and I keep a keyword library. On longer trips I have an import set up that creates a finder folder for each day of photographs. I drag and drop those folders into the session favourites area of the session as they are created so that they are easily available. It lets me use an approach like "Tuesday, that was Kyoto so let's add a "Japan|Kyoto" keyword to that folder of images.

    Once I have finished active work on that project or trip I import the session to the master catalogue so I only have one place to search and find images.

    All Capture One catalogues and sessions live in one top level folder - divided up by further folders depending on whether they are imported into the master catalogue or not. Once imported to the master catalogue that is the only place an image is worked on.

    On the road I have a routine where I import the day's pics, so they get presets done to them and the folders created. I also do a first pick through of the images and get rid of any black frames or other obvious crap. Then I run a backup to Backblaze B2 and another backup to a local very fast SSD for the whole C1 storage top level folder. For those backups I use QBackup and I also have scheduled backups to those locations written as LaunchAgent plists so they run every 3 hours. If the laptop doesn't have network or the external SSD isn't connected, then the scheduled backups fail gracefully and run the next time they are scheduled. I tend to run a backup after any editing session as well. It means I don't lose much and QBackup is smart about dealing with deltas. In addition a continuous sync runs to my Synology NAS back home. When I travel the laptop and the SSD drive are in different bags - one in the cabin and one in the hold. I'm not paranoid or anything...

    I also have Resilio Sync running on that master folder to various other computers. It's a wonderful piece of software to create your own personal cloud and very efficient.

    My biggest issue is that the C1 master storage is going to have to move from my local SSD in the laptop to a large, fast, small, directly attachable storage at some point soon. I can't effectively run from the NAS - neither it nor the network is fast enough for that - and the local internal SSD is not large enough. So quite soon the working sessions will be on the internal storage and the Master on a directly attachable Thunderbolt 3 storage. I haven't decided just what yet.

    Because I don't use Lightroom I can't do a comparison but this works for me. Hope that's of some help.

    Mike
    Mike,
    This is extremely helpful, and introduces some things I had not thought about. It is going to take some time for me to process this, I am in Disney World with my family, but I may have a follow up question when we get back home and I can map out your workflow.
    Thank you!
    Greg

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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    A hybrid solution:

    - snaps and general reference/use photos (say for documentation, or casual shoots) live in Lightroom. Sorted largely by date and keyword.

    - serious shots are processed in C1. I make a new session for each shoot, listing camera (helps me remember), place and date, and do all the work for that shot in that session.

    - at years end, all the output from all the sessions of that year (about 30 or so...) is put into a C1 catalog, so better processed images are all collected into one place. Ideally this should have the raw file too, so that it would be only place needed to find the original image, but haven't done that. Each session file is backed up after the images have been processed.

    There are likely better ways to go - but this way makes practical sense. Aperture was a really good digital image manager, far easier that LR, but sadly is no longer supported after 10.14. LR is too hard to manage as a main custodian (at least for me).

    Would be interested in other people's workflow.
    Thank you Geoff! I need to get a better understanding on sessions and catalogs, but I think I understand what you are saying.
    Thanks again,
    Greg

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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    I use a slight variation of what Geoff mentions above.

    For me all my shots go into lightroom, sorted/named by date and keyworded
    That way I can go to one place and find all my photos

    In case a shoot (or individual shot) needs to be processed in C1 I just put it in a Lightroom collection called "processed in C1"
    I then import the same file from the same location as referenced by Lightroom into C1 and process it further there.

    In lightroom you can easily check if a shot is in a collection, in the library grid view there's a little icon in the thumbnail with two rectangles and when you hover over it will tell you the shot is in a collection, clicking will tell you which collection(s), so as soon as the collection "processed in C1" is shown I know I have to go to C1 to get the final rendering. If not the Lightroom rendering is the "end state". If the shot is not in any collection the icon won't show, so don't worry if you don't see it.

    This is just one way to do this and there are many more (maybe even better) ways, but I find Lightroom the best tool for at least managing all my photos and rendering 95% of them. C1 is a great program and raw converter, but indeed a terrible database and asset manager, so I just don't use it for that.

    Hope this helps.
    Thank you Pieter! That is a potential Lightroom/C1 workflow that could work for me.
    Thanks again,
    Greg

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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    I have a similar, but different hybrid approach. < 2010 when I started using MF, I was using LR exclusively. I would create a WIP file every year (ex. "2008_WIP") with an associated LR Catalog. Selects from that year's catalog would get imported into the MSTR catalog. The basic purpose was so I could have all the select images in my MSTR file with me at all times, storing them on an external drive. That kept the size of the drive to a minimum.

    Once I switched to MF, I did the same thing with C1, either catalogs or sessions. Difference being the images imported into the LR MSTR catalog from C1 were all tiffs instead of raw or DNG files.

    Today most of my files are processed in C1, so I now use sessions pretty much exclusively. Again grouped by year, essentially replacing how I used to use the "2008_WIP" file. Selects from each session are exported as tiff files and imported into the same old LR MSTR catalog.

    So, each year:
    2018
    Session A
    Session B
    ...

    2019
    Session A
    Session B
    ...

    While the MSTR LR catalog continues to build with all select images. I can still carry them all with me on a 2TB hard drive. It is about 1/10 of the total image storage.

    Dave

    Dave, thank you! So to make sure I am understanding your current work flow, C1 is now your primary file management program and Lightroom would serve more as your gallery of finished images? As always thank your for your insight!
    Thanks again,
    Greg

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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    If I get this right, it seems that folks use different DAMs - the two being Lightroom or C1 Catalog (as opposed to their sessions) - but in addition each of 3-4 models offered also separate two things:

    - working sessions (or shoots) from a master file or final cataloging
    - when in their work sequence are their shots, be they raw or finished, are put into their digital asset manager.

    I like keeping all my shots from a shooting session or trip in one place, modeled on contact sheets from a shoot in the days of film. And then once processed, collect all the good stuff into a DAM, with it as sort of a portfolio. But each method has slight pros and cons.

    The promise of a "one shop, processing and storage for all" doesn't seem to work - probably due to the sheer file sizes in question.
    www.gigi-photos.com
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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    What a great thread Greg kicked off here!! Thank you.

    It strikes me that there is another subtlety here, perhaps driven by the way C1 operates.

    I don't care about anything but the RAWs and the adjustments. Because I use standardised Process Recipes and the adjustments travel with the RAW file I happily ditch any JPEG or TIFF that I've created - it can be recreated in a matter of seconds. So the Output directory is a transient place. This saves quite a lot of storage and focuses on the key asset which is the RAW.

    Because I don't use PS or LR I don't know whether that will work for them - maybe the output files are more important.

    The second thing is that, once a RAW passes the initial screening - is it a black screen or did a child press the shutter kind of screening - it never gets deleted. It ends up in the master eventually. So often I find that I don't like a shot at first, but later I decide to work on it and there's something there. Besides, you never know when you might want a shot of a rubbish bin.
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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    Yes I agree with Mike - a great thread and looking forward to reading people's strategies.

    I remove all hassle from keeping an archive of what I've bothered to press the shutter on by literally saving a copy of all raw files onto two hard drives. I literally have two hardrives for each and every year since 2004 stored in two seperate loacations full of just raw files in folders by date.

    THEN start the actual hassle part by

    1. copying all files into a folder by date
    2. Importing these files in CI - Session one for each month
    3. immediately deleting all the crapola
    4. deciding on what is worth working on and deleting the rest
    5. Work the file in C1 qnd if required in PS add any required names/tags etc
    6. Save the raw file and TIFF file ( if worked on in PS)
    7. At end of month import session files into Catalogue for year
    8. End of year merge yearly catalogue into mas
    ter catalogue

    In this way I have been able to reduce 30 odd thousand files I used to see in LR - down to less than 1000 files in a master catalogue

    I use a thunderbolt3 Pegasus raid5 for my working raid and I backup this raid on to (again) two seperate hard drives using CCC.

    I've had one drive fail from promise tech in 10 years which was easily recovered due to raid 5 by slipping in a spare hardrive and letting the system rebuild.

    In future I might look to non proprietary raid software storage - but I never seem to get around to it.

    I don't trust Adobe anymore and don't like the idea that if I stop subscribing I cant use or access my LR catalogues, whereas with C1 I buy the license and if I decide to stop upgrading I can still always access my catalogues by using the software I have purchased.

    Fortunately these days it costs not much to store and keep everything on hardrives - I look forward to the day when bandwidth and speed and cost allows for proper cloud archival as a back-up strategy. Truth be told though - apart from family happy snaps if I end up with 300 decent shots worth printing large I will have done well - so far I've got about 30 after 20 years of mucking around with digital.

    Post Script

    What do I do with family type snaps? SInce these account for 80% of what I shoot?
    Well each year I gather my favourites together and make one of those online printed books from Blurb or whoever - best archive of family history and easy to access for all. Same for family holidays or big occasions etc...
    Last edited by PeterA; 7th December 2019 at 03:26.
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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Yes I agree with Mike - a great thread and looking forward to reading people's strategies.

    I remove all hassle from keeping an archive of what I've bothered to press the shutter on by literally saving a copy of all raw files onto two hard drives. I literally have two hardrives for each and every year since 2004 stored in two seperate loacations full of just raw files in folders by date.

    THEN start the actual hassle part by

    1. copying all files into a folder by date
    2. Importing these files in CI - Session one for each month
    3. immediately deleting all the crapola
    4. deciding on what is worth working on and deleting the rest
    5. Work the file in C1 qnd if required in PS add any required names/tags etc
    6. Save the raw file and TIFF file ( if worked on in PS)
    7. At end of month import session files into Catalogue for year
    8. End of year merge yearly catalogue into mas
    ter catalogue

    In this way I have been able to reduce 30 odd thousand files I used to see in LR - down to less than 1000 files in a master catalogue

    I use a thunderbolt3 Pegasus raid5 for my working raid and I backup this raid on to (again) two seperate hard drives using CCC.

    I've had one drive fail from promise tech in 10 years which was easily recovered due to raid 5 by slipping in a spare hardrive and letting the system rebuild.

    In future I might look to non proprietary raid software storage - but I never seem to get around to it.

    I don't trust Adobe anymore and don't like the idea that if I stop subscribing I cant use or access my LR catalogues, whereas with C1 I buy the license and if I decide to stop upgrading I can still always access my catalogues by using the software I have purchased.

    Fortunately these days it costs not much to store and keep everything on hardrives - I look forward to the day when bandwidth and speed and cost allows for proper cloud archival as a back-up strategy. Truth be told though - apart from family happy snaps if I end up with 300 decent shots worth printing large I will have done well - so far I've got about 30 after 20 years of mucking around with digital.

    Post Script

    What do I do with family type snaps? SInce these account for 80% of what I shoot?
    Well each year I gather my favourites together and make one of those online printed books from Blurb or whoever - best archive of family history and easy to access for all. Same for family holidays or big occasions etc...
    I love the structure of your workflow! I think one of my hesitations of moving to C1, due to the past decade of shooting with Hasselblad, is that it forces me into this bifurcated filing system. If anyone has worked thru this issue, I would love to hear your thoughts.

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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Haag View Post
    Dave, thank you! So to make sure I am understanding your current work flow, C1 is now your primary file management program and Lightroom would serve more as your gallery of finished images? As always thank your for your insight!
    Thanks again,
    Greg
    Sort of. I don't think of C1 as a file management program. I think of it as a raw processing program and filtering system. There are several reasons I don't use C1 for the whole process:
    1. I have a large collection of LR-processed images that would be very difficult and time consuming to port over to a C1 catalog. Not only reprocessing old raw images, but the hundreds of collections that exist in LR.
    2. There are a few things LR does better than C1; the biggest is spot healing. I find C1's spot healing inconsistent at best while LR's is fantastic. In fact, I don't even bother with spot healing in C1. I do it in LR after the tiff comes over from C1. Also, I find some adjustment "sliders" very useful in LR. I use them as subtle tweaks to images after they come over. The new Texture control is one example. I often use a slight Dehaze adjustment when soft proofing a print, especially for matte paper. LR's Clarity is different. Not better, but different in a useful way.
    3. In my opinion, LR is a much better DAM / file management program.


    Your comment regarding LR being my "gallery of finished images" is pretty accurate though. I don't think I've ever printed directly from C1; every print comes from LR either directly printed through LR or from LR to tiff>ImagePrint. All collections are managed in the LR MSTR catalog. I can't imagine how I would put together a collection of "maple trees in fall color", or "ice images" without having one MSTR catalog to pull from. Again, one of my driving forces is the desire to have all my "portfolio" images with me when I travel. If I didn't care about that I might have a very different workflow. I sync the portable external drive with my main drive that contains the MSTR catalog images before leaving, and that MSTR catalog itself resides on my MBP hard drive so I always have access to that. I can keyword, create collections and even send contact sheets to people without connecting my external drive.*

    The other big factor is my website. I use Backlight from The Turning Gate, which has a very useful LR Publish plugin that sync's effortlessly.

    Dave

    *Note when on the road I have to tell LR the files have "moved" to the external drive, and when I return I have to redirect LR back to the permanent storage. That only takes a few seconds.
    Last edited by dchew; 7th December 2019 at 06:23.
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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I don't trust Adobe anymore and don't like the idea that if I stop subscribing I cant use or access my LR catalogues, whereas with C1 I buy the license and if I decide to stop upgrading I can still always access my catalogues by using the software I have purchased.
    That's a good point but fortunately all my cameras still work with Lightroom 6.14 (the last perpetual license version) so I've never entered a subscription yet.

    When you stop subscribing everything of your Lightroom program still works except the develop module. So your catalogues are still accessible by the library module so you can still do some very crude adjustments, but nothing major. You can even continue to import more files in there if you want.
    For me it would make much more sense and I might even be lured into the subscription model if they kept the develop module active and simply disabled the import. That way you can use the program fully for photo's made during the subscription and render the program useless for photos taken after the subscription is stopped. That would imho be a much fairer and cleaner "end game"
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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    That's a good point but fortunately all my cameras still work with Lightroom 6.14 (the last perpetual license version) so I've never entered a subscription yet.

    When you stop subscribing everything of your Lightroom program still works except the develop module. So your catalogues are still accessible by the library module so you can still do some very crude adjustments, but nothing major. You can even continue to import more files in there if you want.
    For me it would make much more sense and I might even be lured into the subscription model if they kept the develop module active and simply disabled the import. That way you can use the program fully for photo's made during the subscription and render the program useless for photos taken after the subscription is stopped. That would imho be a much fairer and cleaner "end game"
    Thanks for clarifying what happens if/when one leaves their subscription. I am keeping my subscription because PS is irreplaceable and Adobe link the two programs together - I can't see a lot of difference between LR and C1 as a DAM for a few thousand shots. however, because I can't see any difference - doesn't mean there isn't one.I'd like to hear from anyone who can show me why LR is a better DAM choice I used to think so - I no longer do - but I could be missing stuff.

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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Thanks for clarifying what happens if/when one leaves their subscription. I am keeping my subscription because PS is irreplaceable and Adobe link the two programs together - I can't see a lot of difference between LR and C1 as a DAM for a few thousand shots. however, because I can't see any difference - doesn't mean there isn't one.I'd like to hear from anyone who can show me why LR is a better DAM choice I used to think so - I no longer do - but I could be missing stuff.
    I run a fully licensed version of CS3 which is enough for me. I do very little work in PS so ymmv.

    Why I think Lightroom is a better DAM is based on two things:
    1: I've had several bugs in finding back photos in C1. Dates/labels missing, keywords not found.... etc. etc. This experience comes from version 9, maybe newer versions are better but I haven't tried again. Too much frustration and hair-pulling.
    2: All the tools in Lightroom like collections, smart collections, flagging are all not available or much more rudimentary in C1, and keywording/labelling I find a lot more user friendly in Lightroom.

    Like always this is very personal, but today I wouldn't want to be without Lightroom as a central repository of all my photo's
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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    I run a fully licensed version of CS3 which is enough for me. I do very little work in PS so ymmv.

    Why I think Lightroom is a better DAM is based on two things:
    1: I've had several bugs in finding back photos in C1. Dates/labels missing, keywords not found.... etc. etc. This experience comes from version 9, maybe newer versions are better but I haven't tried again. Too much frustration and hair-pulling.
    2: All the tools in Lightroom like collections, smart collections, flagging are all not available or much more rudimentary in C1, and keywording/labelling I find a lot more user friendly in Lightroom.

    Like always this is very personal, but today I wouldn't want to be without Lightroom as a central repository of all my photo's
    I see...my experience with C1 only (really) began when they started supporting Fuji GFX cameras - so I am quite familiar with version 12 and now moving into 20 - the way C1 references photographs requires a bit of learning curve in terms of organising the workflow - I must admit C1 makes it 'easy' to do things the wrong way as far as keeping track of things - unless you do it the right way and then I found that the problems are fewer than LR. eg I've never had 'file not found' issue with C1 - which is a regular occurrence with LR after upgrades - which seem to happen all too frequently in LR/PS on their CC platform even though I stick to the 'Classic' version and very use of the word 'classic' was a trigger for me to start exploring alternative(s)

    On your point #2 - all the tools are there in C1 - collection/smart collection/albums / smart albums flagging rating searching .....



    Still as you say it is a pain to change - a real pain best avoided if possible.

    As for raw processing - I think C1 is better than LR/Adobe for Fuji files and Leica files - I don't do much with PS - but when I need to use it - there is no substitute.

    The one thing that really bugs me is C1 doesn't do Hasselblad files or other MF backs - and I have a lot of Hasselblad files. There are littel hacks and workarounds to 'make' it work - but meh...
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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    That's certainly good to hear Peter, I'm still on C1 version 10 where flagging is not yet there and the collection/album/folder tools and views are rudimentary and incomplete (buggy). Maybe I should try the new version 20 but it needs to be a whole lot better than Lightroom (for me) to take the plunge and move all my 70 k+ photo's there. But I agree, as a raw developer it can certainly achieve better results on some photo's than Lightroom. On the other hand the good thing about using the last perpetual version of Lightroom is that there are no more updates coming through that can create problems.
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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post

    The one thing that really bugs me is C1 doesn't do Hasselblad files or other MF backs - and I have a lot of Hasselblad files. There are littel hacks and workarounds to 'make' it work - but meh...
    This is my biggest hurdle in using C1 as my primary file management solution, what have you found to be the best workaround?
    Thanks,
    Greg

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    Re: Phase One file management workflow recommendations help please

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Haag View Post
    This is my biggest hurdle in using C1 as my primary file management solution, what have you found to be the best workaround?
    Thanks,
    Greg
    I used Phocus to develop raw and produce a tiff which I then imported to C1 and I got tired of doing that - real fast so I just used LR. I no longer shoot with Hasselblad though since I switched to Fuji for MF - part of the reason being C1 support ...see why so many of us hate the notion of being 'trapped by any of these companies?
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