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Thread: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

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    Senior Member Malina DZ's Avatar
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    Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Let's post comparison shots between SD/DP Merrills and Bayer sensor cameras with similar/close focal distances to give those who don't have a Merrill yet, a good reason to consider (or disregard) one. Links to full resolution, uncropped JPGs are highly appreciated since web format doesn't always reveal the potential of Foveon sensor.



    Here's my comparison: DP2M vs Sony a850+50/1.4
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    Senior Member W.Utsch's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Here we go 100% via Flickr:

    1. DP2M


    2. Canon 5DMKII with 50/1.4


    _MG_7074.jpg by W.Utsch, on Flickr
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    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    On my iPad the DP2m totally blows the Canon shot away.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    I did such a comparison a while ago, when in Venice, between the DP1 & DP2 Merrill on one side and the Sony Nex-7 equipped with Sigma lenses on the other, in the attempt of equalizing the field as much as possible and show the differences in sensors.

    Here some samples from that comparison, you can read the whole thing ON MY BLOG.

    Nex-7, Sigma 30mm f2.8


    Sigma DP2 Merrill


    Nex-7, Sigma 30mm f2.8


    Sigma DP2 Merrill


    Nex-7, Sigma 30mm f2.8


    Sigma DP2 Merrill


    I found the Merrills to be MUCH sharper and detailed; colours are very different, and Sigma DPP is a bit of a pain to use. By the way, I just printed today a few A3 sized images out of the Merrill and the Sony for clients: at this size, they both look great, but the Merrill still has some advantage in micro-contrast and fine details despite having printed the Merrills at 240 dpi and the Sony's at 36 dpi. Last week I printed some test A2 for myself, and the Merrill came out definitely better. Sigma is really onto something with these little cameras, while I think they should change their strategy in DSLR, I think it would be great if they made F-mount and EOS-mounts FF cameras aimed at landscape and studio photographers
    Vieri Bottazzini
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    Senior Member W.Utsch's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    @Quentin:
    Yes that's true not only on the iPad but as well on a 27' iMac.

    @vieri

    Very nice blog, i have read some time ago. I can fully second your findings.

    Some more, know all crops at 100%:

    DP2M


    Leica M8, 35/2 asph.


    L1001063.jpg by W.Utsch, on Flickr

    Olympus OMD, Pana 12-35/2.8


    P2130008.jpg by W.Utsch, on Flickr

    Sony NEX 7, 24/1.8 Zeiss


    DSC03649.jpg by W.Utsch, on Flickr
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    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Please stop this madness !!!

    This is cruel for the other brands !
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
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    Super Duper
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    Please stop this madness !!!

    This is cruel for the other brands !
    +1. I have two other cameras (Leica M-E and Fuji X-E1) that I'm currently using (occasionally) along with the Merrills, but I won't embarrass them by posting comparisons. Both are nice cameras and fun to use, but they just do not produce image quality comparable to the DPxMs.
    Carl
    Gallery

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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    @ W.Utsch

    all comparison images are taken on different days.

    I would love to see comparison shots made within the same hour one after the other to eliminate any influence of weather and light.

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    Senior Member ggibson's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Wow, check out the texture of the wood/paint on the left side of the door. Amazing how much detail Foveon brings out that the others merely hint at.

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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    What surprises me is that the OMD with 12-35 is far superior to the Leica M8 and the 35/2.

    I'm not surprised that the Foveon beats them all but the definition in the OMD and Nex shots are far better than the Leica combination. That I would not have expected.

    LouisB

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    Senior Member W.Utsch's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    @4711, thats true - but i don't want to make "scientific" tests. Thats no more fun for me.

    I did some more comparisons shots i do not intend to show here because this type of posting gets fast boring.

    My findings and verdict will not surprise anybody:

    In IQ the Sigma beats all of my other gear by quite a margin. It makes not to much sense to do a "ranking list", all of the other cams (i have to many...) have their strengths and weaknesses.

    Since the Sigmas, i am using them 85% or even more, the rest sits on the shelve.

    Depending on what you want to shoot, one Sigma (2 or 3) and the OMD with 12-35 and 75/1.8 or Pana 7-14 + Olympus flash , all fits in a pretty small bag and is not to heavy, is a very good basic set.

    I like the NEX 7 as well (think the IQ of the NEX7 is a little superior of the OMD) but the lenses and the whole system gives me not the flexibility of the OMD.

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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Quote Originally Posted by W.Utsch View Post
    @4711, thats true - but i don't want to make "scientific" tests. Thats no more fun for me.

    I did some more comparisons shots i do not intend to show here because this type of posting gets fast boring.

    My findings and verdict will not surprise anybody:

    In IQ the Sigma beats all of my other gear by quite a margin. It makes not to much sense to do a "ranking list", all of the other cams (i have to many...) have their strengths and weaknesses.

    Since the Sigmas, i am using them 85% or even more, the rest sits on the shelve.

    Depending on what you want to shoot, one Sigma (2 or 3) and the OMD with 12-35 and 75/1.8 or Pana 7-14 + Olympus flash , all fits in a pretty small bag and is not to heavy, is a very good basic set.

    I like the NEX 7 as well (think the IQ of the NEX7 is a little superior of the OMD) but the lenses and the whole system gives me not the flexibility of the OMD.
    Sounds like a good plan, a combo of the best in IQ (Sigma DPM) with the most versatile tool in the bag (OMD). All the rest for the closet or the marketplace.

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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Has anybody tried/compared the DP2M vs. the Sigma SD1 with either the new 35/1.4 or 50/1.4 or 85/1.4 or any other lens?

    What about the older SD15 (has less MP) in comparison?

    I would love to have the DP2M quality in a DSLR body...

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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Anyone out there have a Sony a99 and some Sony Zeiss lenses? I'd love to see a direct comparison at 100%. Sometimes my a900 is "very close" to the detail rendering of my DP2M (but "just" loses), sometimes the 900 wins in lower light / duller light. It always wins above ISO 200. I'm debating getting an a99 to use in low light, faster action to compliment my DP2 and "soon to be" DP3.

    Anyone?

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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    As far as I`m concerned, the Sigma Merrills are the least interesting cameras to compare with other makes since the outcome will be too obvious.
    If Sigma came out with ilc bodies competitive in all other performance aspects (af, buffer, write time, etc) and some excellent lenses, they would take over the high end digital camera market.

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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    If Hulyss want's to shoot beautiful women with a camera that shows every pore in their skin he's welcome to do so. I don't find that image flattering and my client's don't either.

    There's a place for the Sony/Zeiss combos, the Merrills and many other cameras. That's the beauty of artistic creation. You're given license with the brush you use.

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    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Candlish View Post
    If Hulyss want's to shoot beautiful women with a camera that shows every pore in their skin he's welcome to do so. I don't find that image flattering and my client's don't either.

    There's a place for the Sony/Zeiss combos, the Merrills and many other cameras. That's the beauty of artistic creation. You're given license with the brush you use.
    Ho you are right. I'm obliged to smooth portraits a lot with the Merrills , but this is something good after all. It give a large latitude for PP the skin or little imperfections and that's the point. This is the Same with D800e, many guys or pro do have a large learning curve to the new PP needed.

    The raw output isn't flattering at ALL and you right to point it because some may think it is easy to make portrait with this kind of camera ... and this is not (or yes if the model is far from you).
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    Ho you are right. I'm obliged to smooth portraits a lot with the Merrills , but this is something good after all. It give a large latitude for PP the skin or little imperfections and that's the point. This is the Same with D800e, many guys or pro do have a large learning curve to the new PP needed.

    The raw output isn't flattering at ALL and you right to point it because some may think it is easy to make portrait with this kind of camera ... and this is not (or yes if the model is far from you).
    I totally agree with this. I'd rather have a lot of detail to begin with (=large room for post-processing, editing & cloning imperfections, etc) and having to smooth the resulting image prior to publication than the other way round. You can smooth out extra details, but you cannot add them back in if they aren't there
    Vieri Bottazzini
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    here is what you can do with the old SD15

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    Senior Member W.Utsch's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    I got my hands on a RX1 (with EVF) this weekend, weather turned from winter to summer within 2 days...
    The DP2M, the DP3M and the RX1 do fit in my small "handbag":

    The three beasts


    P4160079.jpg by W.Utsch, on Flickr

    It was a little fiddling with 3 cams: One around my neck, the second in my hand and the third still in the bag. But the combo is hard to beat, you are done with the most important focal lengths and the RX1 complements the Sigmas in every other way just perfect. The bag is small and still pretty light.

    Sigma DP2M:


    RX1:


    DSC03862.jpg by W.Utsch, on Flickr



    DP2M:


    RX1:


    DSC03849.jpg by W.Utsch, on Flickr


    You have to look at the 100% oc and consider JPEG compression.
    My impression: The Sigma still has more resolution and sharpness, but the RX1 is close, very close. High ISO is extremely good on the Sony. The combination of RX1 and one or both Sigmas is fantastic and hard to beat.
    Last edited by W.Utsch; 16th April 2013 at 09:00. Reason: Pic changed
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    The orange parts look really strange out of the Sigma.

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    Senior Member W.Utsch's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Thats true, maybe its the Auto-WB. But which one is the "right one" - memory says it's the RX1's
    The WB was slightly different on all images.

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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    I think it would be harder to find one make of camera that set up at equal focal lengths/perspectives and PP similarly that actually beats the Merrills IQ. I have not seen or owned one.....All the cameras I own are collecting dust except when I do wildlife or macros.
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    Senior Member W.Utsch's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Again the bikes:

    Processed the Sigma file "vivid" this time and adjusted the WB in both pics in LR:

    DP2M


    RX1


    DSC03862.jpg by W.Utsch, on Flickr

    Not equal, but the sigma color looks much better than before (standard)

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    Senior Member Malina DZ's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Quote Originally Posted by W.Utsch View Post
    The DP2M, the DP3M and the RX1 do fit in my small "handbag"
    Great travel kit many could wish for. None of them is ideal but each excels the other in particular situations delivering awesome shots
    Thanks for the comparison.

    Here's what another forum member shared with DPM community:
    D800+28/1.8G vs DP1M (raw files)
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    Senior Member biglouis's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    I am somewhat emabarassed to say that I have also followed W Utsch and purchased a RX-1 (an offer I could not refuse on a second hand one) to go with my DP2M. The main attraction is a camera which can produce excellent results at high-iso, where sadly the DP2M cannot go.

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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Quote Originally Posted by W.Utsch View Post
    I got my hands on a RX1 (with EVF) this weekend, weather turned from winter to summer within 2 days...
    The DP2M, the DP3M and the RX1 do fit in my small "handbag":

    The three beasts


    P4160079.jpg by W.Utsch, on Flickr

    It was a little fiddling with 3 cams: One around my neck, the second in my hand and the third still in the bag. But the combo is hard to beat, you are done with the most important focal lengths and the RX1 complements the Sigmas in every other way just perfect. The bag is small and still pretty light.

    Sigma DP2M:


    RX1:



    DP2M:



    RX1:



    You have to look at the 100% oc and consider JPEG compression.
    My impression: The Sigma still has more resolution and sharpness, but the RX1 is close, very close. High ISO is extremely good on the Sony. The combination of RX1 and one or both Sigmas is fantastic and hard to beat.
    On a recent trip the Coolpix A, RX1 and DP3M were in the bag. On my next travel it might be the A, DP2M and DP3M (although I`m still trying to give the other gear a fair chance). The RX1 is great, but these darn Foveon files are soo addictive. I like the A as the jeans pocket size good IQ solution, but the new Ricoh GR might take its place soon.

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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    I am somewhat emabarassed to say that I have also followed W Utsch and purchased a RX-1 (an offer I could not refuse on a second hand one) to go with my DP2M. The main attraction is a camera which can produce excellent results at high-iso, where sadly the DP2M cannot go.

    LouisB
    LOL, I`m glad I`m not the only one.
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    Senior Member Malina DZ's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    3 cameras, 3 lenses. Unfortunately, it was quite windy & many shots got misfocused. Nothing scientific, but hope you find them useful.
    Foveon vs Bayer CCD & CMOS.


    Sigma DP2M - AWB, Standard color, f2.8


    Sony a850 + sal50f14 @ f2.4


    Sony a100 + KM17-35/2.8-4 @ f4.5
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    LOL, I`m glad I`m not the only one.
    Me, too! (Now, where'd he get the BAG?...)

    Irenaeus

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    Senior Member Malina DZ's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

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    Senior Member Malina DZ's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Attachment 78675
    Sony а850 + CZ50/1.4 @ iso200 f/4.0 - RAW

    Attachment 78676
    DP2M @ f/2.8 iso160 - RAW

    Images taken handheld, focus at infinity. Looks really close to me detail wise.
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    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    I posted this in the Sony forum but thought I'd ask here what you thought of the comparison images.

    Studio Comparison between Alpha A7r and DP2 Merrill: Sigma Camera Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

    An interesting thought is all 3 of the DP Merrills WITH lenses are close to the same asking price of the Sony A7r body alone. Of course the Sony is more versatile with lens options.

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    Senior Member Malina DZ's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Tim, I saw that post of yours and guessed right which one was the Sigma image: eyebrows, eyelashes, hair & skin are more structured, show fine detail better than Sony. Both are really close IQ-wise and require 100% pixel-peeping to spot insignificant differences. Since Sony version is an in-camera JPG, a better result can be achieved with its RAW file. I'm quite content with what I have (a850+DP2M) and don't consider anything else currently on the market. But I'm really looking forward to foveon full frame sensor ILC as DP M cameras do not give me enough shallow depth of field that I get with FF camera and f/1.4 glass.

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    Senior Member W.Utsch's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    For me the Sonys (RX1 and the A7's) are no alternative to the DP-Merrills. They complement each other. The RAW quality of the RX1 files and the Merrills are very close ( with advantage to the Sigma's) and i expect the A7r to be even closer. Sometimes the Merrill's are not usable in special shooting conditions - thats when the Sony's come to their right. To use M-mode and auto ISO with the RX1 is fantastic and not usable with the Sigma. For landscape etc. will still use the M's.
    I would never have a M (Sigma or Leica!) as my only cam.
    But would buy a Foveon full frame asap! They should improve ISO and shadows (green magenta).....

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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Sigma DP2 Merrill vs D800E.

    20120716D800E01 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    Some crops 100 (bottom of the linked page, the last three, and the next page) pictures from sony A7R and other interpolated 36 Mpix Sigma DP2Merrill.

    Didacticiel Sigma photo pro 5.5 : quels sont vos réglages de base ?

    DP3 M vs D800E et OM-D:
    http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5324/9...6f87cafe_o.jpg

    Review: The Sigma DP3 Merrill

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    Senior Member Malina DZ's Avatar
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    Re: Sigma SD/DP Merrill vs your other camera

    Ever wondered why there are so few landscape shots with the sun in the frame?


    Flare Splash DP2M @ f/16


    Here's a conventional camera shot @ f/16


    Sunset Star
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