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Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

peterb

Member
The other day at work we were notified that a photographer (who is a friend of one the business managers) would be coming in to take head shots of staff members.

Well this morning this guy comes into office I share with a colleague and he starts snapping away first at my roommate then at me (he wanted to get some 'action' shots). I looked up and immediately saw the familiar orange (okay, cinnamon) ring at the throat of the lens barrel and realized the guy was using a Sony. Ah...but not just ANY Sony, a new A7. (With a nice Canon MF lens no less!)

Then I heard the shutter. Wow! Was that thing ever loud. He fired off a number of shots and I simply could not get over how loud it was. In fact it seemed even louder than the camera I checked out at Sony store two months earlier.

I asked how he liked his A7 and the guy replied it was the best camera he'd ever owned. It certainly was small almost OM-1 size (the legendary film camera that is). And the layout seemed well thought out...but that shutter noise. Again, WOW!

Later, that day, it turned out he was also giving a talk on marketing which I had previously expressed an interest in attending (I didn't realize the speaker and the photographer we're going to be one and the same.)

Here's where it got interesting. While the photographer spoke, another staff member used his A7 to take a few shots during the lecture in a largish classroom. I could see the guy was using focus peaking and enjoying the experience. But that shutter noise again. This time it was REALLY distracting. The staffer using the camera would fire off shot after shot and every time you heard what now has to be the trademark A7/A7r SCHLUCKKKKKK of the shutter someone turned to look at the camera. It was very unfortunate.

I'm sorry gents and ladies, but the A7 & A7r cameras may be an engineering tour de force in terms of stellar IQ in a heretofore never realized compact size, but as an intimate reportage camera in situations where unobtrusiveness would be greatly desired to insure that fly-on-the-wall stealth, it leaves a lot to be desired.

Don't get me wrong. I think these two marvels are great for landscapes (but maybe not avalanche zones), still life's, product shots, non-moving buildings, moored yachts, rusted freight train wheel housings, street work with significant ambient noise, cars, some portraiture (although I did see some folks during his portrait sessions start to wince after a while) and shots of fairly untwitchy creatures.

But probably not so much for soft passages in concert halls, poetry readings, funeral parlors, theater soliloquies, coffee house folk singers, religious services, libraries, museums or corporate espionage.
 

nostatic

New member
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/50028-rx1-r-silent-companion.html

If he had the A7, he could have engaged the electronic front curtain and it is a lot quieter. If he didn't - that is operator error. The A7r however doesn't have that option, and you get the double *thwack*. Having owned the A7 for awhile and now the A7r, there is a volume difference, but in the end I decided that the files out of the r were worth it. I was shooting an event the other day with A7r and RX1r - the A7r ended up causing some of the subjects to turn and look so I shot the rest with the RX1r which is dead silent due to the leaf shutter. I could however shoot video with the A7r and that was silent.

Horses for courses. I shot an EM5 for a year, tried the EM1 but didn't like it. If you compare the files out of either RX1(r) or A7(r) - it is no contest. I still have a GH3, mostly for video but I can shoot 12800 with either of the Sony cams and get usable images.

No perfect camera. But if you need silent, there still is a Sony FF option.
 
Have to say I'm a little puzzled about all this focus on shutter noise. Naturally it's louder than my past m8/9 were, but it's really not _that_ bad. Compared to my wife's old nex-5, the A7r is imo less noisy. And compared to all the big guns, it's less noisy...

I think people fuzz about it just because everybody expects mirrorless to be dead silent. And also because it made headlines, now everybody listens for it only to agree and complain about it.

When photogs fire away a 4-5 shot burst with a D800E, you don't hear complaints about noise!

People need to focus on the pictures and stop obsessing about shutter noise :)

//Juha

ps. no intention to come down on the original poster, just my personal opinion about this as A7r owner
 

GrahamB

New member
I'm amused that some people are apparently threatened by such a small camera (why else post negative impressions (and more than once) of a camera one doesn't own)?

Is the a7r shutter sound loud? To establish some relevancy, one first needs to ask "compared to what"?

Here's a comparison video of the a7r to three other cameras (Sony RX1, Olympus OMD-EM5 and Canon 1D Mark IV). Sony A7R Shutter Shound Comparison - YouTube

Wow. That Canon 1dMk4 is really loud! Do you suppose the Canon shooters are aware just how loud their camera really is?

Graham
 
Graham: Exactly my point!

Btw, based on the video posted above the A7r had sound level of 63db at about 30cm or slight under 1ft distance. By using a online calculator on the effect of distance to sound dampening.. from about 8 meters away (think large conference room, long lens) it would sound about the same as that Rx1 from 30cm away.

Or if we look at 3 meters away, it would be much quieter than that olympus m4/3 camera from 30cm away.

And the bloggers voice in the video is louder than any of the shutters..

So, in most situations that shutter sound won't make the least bit of difference and compared to large dslr it's still less noisy. So where ever you could go with your canon/nikon/etc cannons, the A7r is perfectly good for it.

//Juha
 
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Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Graham, I don't feel threatened by any camera, but for my use, except for action photography, where I use big, noisy Nikon cameras and the A7/r wouldn't be very useful anyway, the A7/r is simply too noisy. So the fact that big Nikons and Canons are noisier than the A7/r isn't relevant to me. The test that you link to shows very clearly that, not only does the A7r make a much a louder sound than an Olympus E-M5, but the sound also lasts much longer.

Camera are criticized and discussed every day on this and other forums. One must be allowed to criticize the A7/r as well, even if one doesn't own that particular camera. These cameras clearly work very well for some, and I've tried to find an excuse to buy one, but they are clearly not for all.
 

nostatic

New member
Is the a7r shutter sound loud? To establish some relevancy, one first needs to ask "compared to what"?

Here's a comparison video of the a7r to three other cameras (Sony RX1, Olympus OMD-EM5 and Canon 1D Mark IV). Sony A7R Shutter Shound Comparison - YouTube
A perfect example why at a recent shoot I put the A7r away and used the RX1r.

The "compared to what?" question also needs to be applied to the shooting situation. In my case, the last two shoots I ended up keeping the A7r in the bag most of the time. First one we had a video crew in the lab shooting and I was doing stills. No way I can have the A7r shutter going off while the video crew is shooting. Second situation we had a VIP checking out the lab. There was a small group of us doing the dog and pony, and I was snapping some documentation stills. I shot the RX1r, then grabbed the A7r because I wanted a bit longer lens (55/1.8). With the first shot two people in the group turned to look at me and the camera. Did it "ruin" the moment? Not necessarily, but it affected the situation and I quickly put it away and continued with the RX1r.

In other cases where I don't have to worry about noise, the A7r is first choice. The files are that good. But just because the A7r is quieter than a big dSLR doesn't mean it is quiet enough for every situation.

I commend Panasonic for having a silent shutter option on GH3, GX7 and GM1. Unfortunately it limits you to the upper ISO (1600 on the GH3, 3200 on the other two iirc). With the RX1r I can shoot any iso in pretty much total silence.
 

nostatic

New member
By using a online calculator on the effect of distance to sound dampening.. from about 8 meters away (think large conference room, long lens) it would sound about the same as that Rx1 from 30cm away.
My personal experience with these two indicates otherwise. In a typical room (e.g. no sound treatment) the A7r shutter sound carries just fine. The RX1r is almost dead silent. I could have the A7r 10m from me indoors and the RX1r right next to me, and the A7r would easily be more noticeable.
 
One must be allowed to criticize the A7/r as well, even if one doesn't own that particular camera. These cameras clearly work very well for some, and I've tried to find an excuse to buy one, but they are clearly not for all.
Jorgen, criticizing is definitely allowed and welcome. People considering purchase naturally want to hear both sides. That being said, it's just getting too much focus. For most shooters this sound thing won't make any difference what-so-ever in their normal shooting conditions. Now with all the noise (pun intended) about it, people are starting to just focus on the noise level and thus perhaps disregarding a perfectly viable option from their check list just because someone called it noisy.

It's like the dpreview ratings, related only to it's class. So A7/A7r are noisy in their class. When you compare it to rx1 or m4/3, you're comparing to different class of cameras.. case in point: :wtf: my iPhone 5 is dead silent, especially compared to a Nikon D4 or even the rx1 or the oly m4/3!

//Juha
 
My personal experience with these two indicates otherwise. In a typical room (e.g. no sound treatment) the A7r shutter sound carries just fine. The RX1r is almost dead silent. I could have the A7r 10m from me indoors and the RX1r right next to me, and the A7r would easily be more noticeable.
Could be, but there are naturally other things to a sound than just sound pressure. Tone of the sound and also how long the sound lasts etc..

So a quick "snick" even at a louder level could be less intrusive than a 2x longer "clack".

The video or the calculator don't account for that. It's merely the sound pressure level.

//Juha
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
The A7/r do exactly the same thing as my GH3: Take photos and video. If I had the A7/r, I would have used it for exactly the same thing: Take photo and video. Most of the time, I don't need more than 16MP and most of the time, I don't take critical photos in the dark. To me, they are the same class of camera, but the GH3 is less noisy plus a few other things that are irrelevant to this discussion.

Since I wrote off these cameras at an early stage, I haven't followed the discussions around them very closely, but when the noise is strong enough to make people not buy the camera, it's clearly a problem, not so much for those who buy them (and have already accepted the sound) and not so much for those who do not buy them (who don't have to listen to it), but for Sony, who sell fewer cameras this way.

Again, I wouldn't mind owning an A7/r, but to me, it would be a hobby camera. I have other cameras for that.
 
Jorgen: yes and no. My iPhone5 also takes photos and videos and I take both of them with it myself. But that doesn't make it same class as that GH3 or the A7r.

Or maybe it is in the same class for some, but then their criteria is clearly different than mine. Same as my criteria is clearly different from yours (not implying yours is any worse or that you'd see the iphones at the same level, just different).

The one thing I think we can agree on this is that there are different horses for different courses..

//Juha
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I am shocked. What a revelation. 10,000 posts already written on the subject but I never tire of reading about it.:rolleyes:

I think the "expectations" aspect is exactly the issue. A camera with no mirror flapping about, that is almost as loud, or just as loud, as one that does. Given a choice, who wouldn't want this camera to be more silent?

By comparison, the A7R shutter sounds at least twice as loud as my Sony A99SLT which does NOT have the flapping mirror. The A99 is a pretty quiet camera. So Sony does know how to make/spec a quiet focal plane shutter.

Compared to my A900 with reasonably decent dampening of the mirror flap, the noise level sounds very similar in intensity, but the A7R sounds more "old school" mechanical in nature. The comparison to an old typewriter cracked me up, and is spot on :)

Interestingly, while my Leica M Monochrome is quieter than the A7R, it is slightly louder than the A99, and the M noise is compounded by its' more mechanical resonance as well as its' duration as the winder works. Turns out the A99 is my most silent camera. Who would have thunk it?


So, as mentioned, application is the determining factor. However, I think one has to qualify some of that, and not resort to cliches.

85% of my work is candid … been doing that all the way back to when almost all cameras (other than a Leica M with a cloth shutter) were as loud or louder than this one. However, I am not a machine gun candid shooter … more the "decisive moment" one shot style. By the time the subject may notice me, I am already moving on.

I shoot in religious environments all the time … I used to do a lot of this with a Hasselblad V camera back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and Vs were THE wedding camera … that camera wins the "Loud Award" hands down (second maybe only to the Mamiya RZ).

In all my years of doing this stuff, I've noticed that if people are deeply engaged in doing something you'd have to fire off a gun next to them before they were distracted. That engaged aspect usually makes for the better images anyway.

I don't think I'd select this camera to shoot an intimate chamber music event, or anywhere that a photographer could be a distraction anyway, loud or not. A closed room with a presenter probably wouldn't appreciate competing with some photographer with any camera, let alone an intrusive sounding one.

What the A7R has brought to my party is less dependence on flash to get the low light shots. Now there is a distraction … a lightening bolt in the face does tend to grab the subject's attention :eek:

- Marc

Here are a couple of discrete candids where the A7R went unnoticed (except perhaps the little doggie who can hear a delicious bug crawling 100 ft away ;)
 

fotografz

Well-known member
The A7/r do exactly the same thing as my GH3: Take photos and video. If I had the A7/r, I would have used it for exactly the same thing: Take photo and video. Most of the time, I don't need more than 16MP and most of the time, I don't take critical photos in the dark. To me, they are the same class of camera, but the GH3 is less noisy plus a few other things that are irrelevant to this discussion.

Since I wrote off these cameras at an early stage, I haven't followed the discussions around them very closely, but when the noise is strong enough to make people not buy the camera, it's clearly a problem, not so much for those who buy them (and have already accepted the sound) and not so much for those who do not buy them (who don't have to listen to it), but for Sony, who sell fewer cameras this way.

Again, I wouldn't mind owning an A7/r, but to me, it would be a hobby camera. I have other cameras for that.
If 16 meg Micro Four Thirds is usually all you need, why would you choose the FF 36 meg A7R over the FF 24 meg A7 with its' quieter electronic first curtain selected?

In fact why either of the Sonys? The louder shutter aside, it seems you don't need most of the advantages that these cameras provide anyway.

I think you chose the right camera for your applications and style of shooting, and are confident in that choice.

I also do not think this camera is aimed at selling to those already vested in competitive mirror-less solutions which is a pretty small segment of the camera business. I'm pretty sure the target is 35mm DSLR users where the higher volume, big money opportunity is.

Sony probably couldn't care less if a Panny GH3 owner didn't buy in. They want the Guy Mancuso's of the world … and from what I can anecdotally determine so far, that is exactly what seems to be happening.

I have a number of friends that dumped a good portion of their big cumbersome DSLR gear for this tiny, much easier to carry A7/A7R camera without having to resort to Micro 4/3 or even APSc sensors to down size. Most of the advantages of a 35mm DSLR, with less of the disadvantages.

Personally, I'm headed in that direction myself, as are a good number of wedding shooters I know. The bag of bricks will soon be history for a lot of 35mm DSLR shooters.

- Marc
 
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jonoslack

Active member
I'm amused that some people are apparently threatened by such a small camera (why else post negative impressions (and more than once) of a camera one doesn't own)?
HI Graham
I'm not threatened by it - I have one - I've had both, but currently have an A7. It's no good for taking pictures of people indoors because it changes they dynamic - people absolutely notice, and that's not (necessarily) what you want. Probably it would be okay for some situations in weddings - but not for others. FWIW I thought the NEX7 was too noisy as well.

If it's a case of comparisons I also use a Ricoh GR, a Leica M240, an MM (also rather loud) and an Olympus E-M1. So sure - I'm comparing it to quiet cameras. One of the reasons I stopped using Nikon SLR's was I didn't like the attention they garnered.

Obviously, for many people it's not an issue (and for me in some circumstances). but to say that people feel 'threatened' because they think it's an issue . . . .
 

fotografz

Well-known member
HI Graham
I'm not threatened by it - I have one - I've had both, but currently have an A7. It's no good for taking pictures of people indoors because it changes they dynamic - people absolutely notice, and that's not (necessarily) what you want. Probably it would be okay for some situations in weddings - but not for others. FWIW I thought the NEX7 was too noisy as well.

If it's a case of comparisons I also use a Ricoh GR, a Leica M240, an MM (also rather loud) and an Olympus E-M1. So sure - I'm comparing it to quiet cameras. One of the reasons I stopped using Nikon SLR's was I didn't like the attention they garnered.

Obviously, for many people it's not an issue (and for me in some circumstances). but to say that people feel 'threatened' because they think it's an issue . . . .
This is a highly personalized response that is based on your specific experiences and approach, obviously making it totally valid Jono.

However, on the subject of wedding photography one cannot go from the personally specific and imply a generality to support one's preferences … an overwhelmingly massive majority of wedding shooters, including the most famous and successful, use 35mm DSLRs that are just as noisy as this A7/A7R, and are more intrusive in size and presence.

"No good for taking pictures indoors" is just such a generality which is disproved by all the wonderful, intimate, fly-on-the wall indoor images taken with the big, loud DSLRs that dominate wedding photography.

People do not "absolutely notice" except perhaps for the first few self-conscience shots in a small room (which has more to do with getting their picture taken than size or sound of the camera), then they get on with what they are doing and forget about you. It has far more to do with how you blend in and how you approach the subjects than what is in your hand. A very common response I hear from clients is "Oh, my God! I didn't even know you were there." … when in fact I was standing 4 feet from them using a big bad, mirror slapping Pro DSLR and honking' 24-70 zoom.

- Marc
 
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Michiel Schierbeek

Well-known member
I think Marc put it all in the right perspective in his answers.
That is my experience too, blend in the situation when in a room full of people, who also make their noises, they soon forget about you.
It is not my experience at all that the whole dynamics in a room changes when they hear the first "clack"
It is when you walk in the room and start fiddling with a camera that people are alert for a while but it is soon gone.
In the street you got your shot most of the time when people hear the "clack :) clack" and you are moving on already and so are they. But often it isn't even noticed between all the street noise
For me this sound thing is overrated, but I quess it can be big problem for some and in silent situations, that the sound can be disturbing. But now it starts to look like a huge problem , which it isn't in my opinion.
Also 80% of my shots have not to do with people, but when I do it is not the big problem for me as it stated by many.
 
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