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Thread: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

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    Senior Member peterb's Avatar
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    Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    The other day at work we were notified that a photographer (who is a friend of one the business managers) would be coming in to take head shots of staff members.

    Well this morning this guy comes into office I share with a colleague and he starts snapping away first at my roommate then at me (he wanted to get some 'action' shots). I looked up and immediately saw the familiar orange (okay, cinnamon) ring at the throat of the lens barrel and realized the guy was using a Sony. Ah...but not just ANY Sony, a new A7. (With a nice Canon MF lens no less!)

    Then I heard the shutter. Wow! Was that thing ever loud. He fired off a number of shots and I simply could not get over how loud it was. In fact it seemed even louder than the camera I checked out at Sony store two months earlier.

    I asked how he liked his A7 and the guy replied it was the best camera he'd ever owned. It certainly was small almost OM-1 size (the legendary film camera that is). And the layout seemed well thought out...but that shutter noise. Again, WOW!

    Later, that day, it turned out he was also giving a talk on marketing which I had previously expressed an interest in attending (I didn't realize the speaker and the photographer we're going to be one and the same.)

    Here's where it got interesting. While the photographer spoke, another staff member used his A7 to take a few shots during the lecture in a largish classroom. I could see the guy was using focus peaking and enjoying the experience. But that shutter noise again. This time it was REALLY distracting. The staffer using the camera would fire off shot after shot and every time you heard what now has to be the trademark A7/A7r SCHLUCKKKKKK of the shutter someone turned to look at the camera. It was very unfortunate.

    I'm sorry gents and ladies, but the A7 & A7r cameras may be an engineering tour de force in terms of stellar IQ in a heretofore never realized compact size, but as an intimate reportage camera in situations where unobtrusiveness would be greatly desired to insure that fly-on-the-wall stealth, it leaves a lot to be desired.

    Don't get me wrong. I think these two marvels are great for landscapes (but maybe not avalanche zones), still life's, product shots, non-moving buildings, moored yachts, rusted freight train wheel housings, street work with significant ambient noise, cars, some portraiture (although I did see some folks during his portrait sessions start to wince after a while) and shots of fairly untwitchy creatures.

    But probably not so much for soft passages in concert halls, poetry readings, funeral parlors, theater soliloquies, coffee house folk singers, religious services, libraries, museums or corporate espionage.
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
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    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/500...companion.html

    If he had the A7, he could have engaged the electronic front curtain and it is a lot quieter. If he didn't - that is operator error. The A7r however doesn't have that option, and you get the double *thwack*. Having owned the A7 for awhile and now the A7r, there is a volume difference, but in the end I decided that the files out of the r were worth it. I was shooting an event the other day with A7r and RX1r - the A7r ended up causing some of the subjects to turn and look so I shot the rest with the RX1r which is dead silent due to the leaf shutter. I could however shoot video with the A7r and that was silent.

    Horses for courses. I shot an EM5 for a year, tried the EM1 but didn't like it. If you compare the files out of either RX1(r) or A7(r) - it is no contest. I still have a GH3, mostly for video but I can shoot 12800 with either of the Sony cams and get usable images.

    No perfect camera. But if you need silent, there still is a Sony FF option.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Have to say I'm a little puzzled about all this focus on shutter noise. Naturally it's louder than my past m8/9 were, but it's really not _that_ bad. Compared to my wife's old nex-5, the A7r is imo less noisy. And compared to all the big guns, it's less noisy...

    I think people fuzz about it just because everybody expects mirrorless to be dead silent. And also because it made headlines, now everybody listens for it only to agree and complain about it.

    When photogs fire away a 4-5 shot burst with a D800E, you don't hear complaints about noise!

    People need to focus on the pictures and stop obsessing about shutter noise :-)

    //Juha

    ps. no intention to come down on the original poster, just my personal opinion about this as A7r owner
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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    shutter noise is one of the reasons why I found the A7/r unsuitable for my use right away.

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    Senior Member Annna T's Avatar
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    On the same theme but in a lighter mode
    Official Test of the Sony A7 Shutter | New Camera News

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    I'm amused that some people are apparently threatened by such a small camera (why else post negative impressions (and more than once) of a camera one doesn't own)?

    Is the a7r shutter sound loud? To establish some relevancy, one first needs to ask "compared to what"?

    Here's a comparison video of the a7r to three other cameras (Sony RX1, Olympus OMD-EM5 and Canon 1D Mark IV). Sony A7R Shutter Shound Comparison - YouTube

    Wow. That Canon 1dMk4 is really loud! Do you suppose the Canon shooters are aware just how loud their camera really is?

    Graham
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Graham: Exactly my point!

    Btw, based on the video posted above the A7r had sound level of 63db at about 30cm or slight under 1ft distance. By using a online calculator on the effect of distance to sound dampening.. from about 8 meters away (think large conference room, long lens) it would sound about the same as that Rx1 from 30cm away.

    Or if we look at 3 meters away, it would be much quieter than that olympus m4/3 camera from 30cm away.

    And the bloggers voice in the video is louder than any of the shutters..

    So, in most situations that shutter sound won't make the least bit of difference and compared to large dslr it's still less noisy. So where ever you could go with your canon/nikon/etc cannons, the A7r is perfectly good for it.

    //Juha
    Last edited by jlindstrom; 17th February 2014 at 23:48. Reason: add more info

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Graham, I don't feel threatened by any camera, but for my use, except for action photography, where I use big, noisy Nikon cameras and the A7/r wouldn't be very useful anyway, the A7/r is simply too noisy. So the fact that big Nikons and Canons are noisier than the A7/r isn't relevant to me. The test that you link to shows very clearly that, not only does the A7r make a much a louder sound than an Olympus E-M5, but the sound also lasts much longer.

    Camera are criticized and discussed every day on this and other forums. One must be allowed to criticize the A7/r as well, even if one doesn't own that particular camera. These cameras clearly work very well for some, and I've tried to find an excuse to buy one, but they are clearly not for all.

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    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamB View Post

    Is the a7r shutter sound loud? To establish some relevancy, one first needs to ask "compared to what"?

    Here's a comparison video of the a7r to three other cameras (Sony RX1, Olympus OMD-EM5 and Canon 1D Mark IV). Sony A7R Shutter Shound Comparison - YouTube
    A perfect example why at a recent shoot I put the A7r away and used the RX1r.

    The "compared to what?" question also needs to be applied to the shooting situation. In my case, the last two shoots I ended up keeping the A7r in the bag most of the time. First one we had a video crew in the lab shooting and I was doing stills. No way I can have the A7r shutter going off while the video crew is shooting. Second situation we had a VIP checking out the lab. There was a small group of us doing the dog and pony, and I was snapping some documentation stills. I shot the RX1r, then grabbed the A7r because I wanted a bit longer lens (55/1.8). With the first shot two people in the group turned to look at me and the camera. Did it "ruin" the moment? Not necessarily, but it affected the situation and I quickly put it away and continued with the RX1r.

    In other cases where I don't have to worry about noise, the A7r is first choice. The files are that good. But just because the A7r is quieter than a big dSLR doesn't mean it is quiet enough for every situation.

    I commend Panasonic for having a silent shutter option on GH3, GX7 and GM1. Unfortunately it limits you to the upper ISO (1600 on the GH3, 3200 on the other two iirc). With the RX1r I can shoot any iso in pretty much total silence.

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    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by jlindstrom View Post
    By using a online calculator on the effect of distance to sound dampening.. from about 8 meters away (think large conference room, long lens) it would sound about the same as that Rx1 from 30cm away.
    My personal experience with these two indicates otherwise. In a typical room (e.g. no sound treatment) the A7r shutter sound carries just fine. The RX1r is almost dead silent. I could have the A7r 10m from me indoors and the RX1r right next to me, and the A7r would easily be more noticeable.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    One must be allowed to criticize the A7/r as well, even if one doesn't own that particular camera. These cameras clearly work very well for some, and I've tried to find an excuse to buy one, but they are clearly not for all.
    Jorgen, criticizing is definitely allowed and welcome. People considering purchase naturally want to hear both sides. That being said, it's just getting too much focus. For most shooters this sound thing won't make any difference what-so-ever in their normal shooting conditions. Now with all the noise (pun intended) about it, people are starting to just focus on the noise level and thus perhaps disregarding a perfectly viable option from their check list just because someone called it noisy.

    It's like the dpreview ratings, related only to it's class. So A7/A7r are noisy in their class. When you compare it to rx1 or m4/3, you're comparing to different class of cameras.. case in point: my iPhone 5 is dead silent, especially compared to a Nikon D4 or even the rx1 or the oly m4/3!

    //Juha

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    My personal experience with these two indicates otherwise. In a typical room (e.g. no sound treatment) the A7r shutter sound carries just fine. The RX1r is almost dead silent. I could have the A7r 10m from me indoors and the RX1r right next to me, and the A7r would easily be more noticeable.
    Could be, but there are naturally other things to a sound than just sound pressure. Tone of the sound and also how long the sound lasts etc..

    So a quick "snick" even at a louder level could be less intrusive than a 2x longer "clack".

    The video or the calculator don't account for that. It's merely the sound pressure level.

    //Juha
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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    The A7/r do exactly the same thing as my GH3: Take photos and video. If I had the A7/r, I would have used it for exactly the same thing: Take photo and video. Most of the time, I don't need more than 16MP and most of the time, I don't take critical photos in the dark. To me, they are the same class of camera, but the GH3 is less noisy plus a few other things that are irrelevant to this discussion.

    Since I wrote off these cameras at an early stage, I haven't followed the discussions around them very closely, but when the noise is strong enough to make people not buy the camera, it's clearly a problem, not so much for those who buy them (and have already accepted the sound) and not so much for those who do not buy them (who don't have to listen to it), but for Sony, who sell fewer cameras this way.

    Again, I wouldn't mind owning an A7/r, but to me, it would be a hobby camera. I have other cameras for that.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Jorgen: yes and no. My iPhone5 also takes photos and videos and I take both of them with it myself. But that doesn't make it same class as that GH3 or the A7r.

    Or maybe it is in the same class for some, but then their criteria is clearly different than mine. Same as my criteria is clearly different from yours (not implying yours is any worse or that you'd see the iphones at the same level, just different).

    The one thing I think we can agree on this is that there are different horses for different courses..

    //Juha

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by jlindstrom View Post

    The one thing I think we can agree on this is that there are different horses for different courses..

    //Juha
    Absolutely

    Still, I would choose my Nokia 808 over you iPhone. Made at some remote, frozen place called Suomi, I believe
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    I am shocked. What a revelation. 10,000 posts already written on the subject but I never tire of reading about it.

    I think the "expectations" aspect is exactly the issue. A camera with no mirror flapping about, that is almost as loud, or just as loud, as one that does. Given a choice, who wouldn't want this camera to be more silent?

    By comparison, the A7R shutter sounds at least twice as loud as my Sony A99SLT which does NOT have the flapping mirror. The A99 is a pretty quiet camera. So Sony does know how to make/spec a quiet focal plane shutter.

    Compared to my A900 with reasonably decent dampening of the mirror flap, the noise level sounds very similar in intensity, but the A7R sounds more "old school" mechanical in nature. The comparison to an old typewriter cracked me up, and is spot on

    Interestingly, while my Leica M Monochrome is quieter than the A7R, it is slightly louder than the A99, and the M noise is compounded by its' more mechanical resonance as well as its' duration as the winder works. Turns out the A99 is my most silent camera. Who would have thunk it?


    So, as mentioned, application is the determining factor. However, I think one has to qualify some of that, and not resort to cliches.

    85% of my work is candid been doing that all the way back to when almost all cameras (other than a Leica M with a cloth shutter) were as loud or louder than this one. However, I am not a machine gun candid shooter more the "decisive moment" one shot style. By the time the subject may notice me, I am already moving on.

    I shoot in religious environments all the time I used to do a lot of this with a Hasselblad V camera back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and Vs were THE wedding camera that camera wins the "Loud Award" hands down (second maybe only to the Mamiya RZ).

    In all my years of doing this stuff, I've noticed that if people are deeply engaged in doing something you'd have to fire off a gun next to them before they were distracted. That engaged aspect usually makes for the better images anyway.

    I don't think I'd select this camera to shoot an intimate chamber music event, or anywhere that a photographer could be a distraction anyway, loud or not. A closed room with a presenter probably wouldn't appreciate competing with some photographer with any camera, let alone an intrusive sounding one.

    What the A7R has brought to my party is less dependence on flash to get the low light shots. Now there is a distraction a lightening bolt in the face does tend to grab the subject's attention

    - Marc

    Here are a couple of discrete candids where the A7R went unnoticed (except perhaps the little doggie who can hear a delicious bug crawling 100 ft away
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The A7/r do exactly the same thing as my GH3: Take photos and video. If I had the A7/r, I would have used it for exactly the same thing: Take photo and video. Most of the time, I don't need more than 16MP and most of the time, I don't take critical photos in the dark. To me, they are the same class of camera, but the GH3 is less noisy plus a few other things that are irrelevant to this discussion.

    Since I wrote off these cameras at an early stage, I haven't followed the discussions around them very closely, but when the noise is strong enough to make people not buy the camera, it's clearly a problem, not so much for those who buy them (and have already accepted the sound) and not so much for those who do not buy them (who don't have to listen to it), but for Sony, who sell fewer cameras this way.

    Again, I wouldn't mind owning an A7/r, but to me, it would be a hobby camera. I have other cameras for that.
    If 16 meg Micro Four Thirds is usually all you need, why would you choose the FF 36 meg A7R over the FF 24 meg A7 with its' quieter electronic first curtain selected?

    In fact why either of the Sonys? The louder shutter aside, it seems you don't need most of the advantages that these cameras provide anyway.

    I think you chose the right camera for your applications and style of shooting, and are confident in that choice.

    I also do not think this camera is aimed at selling to those already vested in competitive mirror-less solutions which is a pretty small segment of the camera business. I'm pretty sure the target is 35mm DSLR users where the higher volume, big money opportunity is.

    Sony probably couldn't care less if a Panny GH3 owner didn't buy in. They want the Guy Mancuso's of the world and from what I can anecdotally determine so far, that is exactly what seems to be happening.

    I have a number of friends that dumped a good portion of their big cumbersome DSLR gear for this tiny, much easier to carry A7/A7R camera without having to resort to Micro 4/3 or even APSc sensors to down size. Most of the advantages of a 35mm DSLR, with less of the disadvantages.

    Personally, I'm headed in that direction myself, as are a good number of wedding shooters I know. The bag of bricks will soon be history for a lot of 35mm DSLR shooters.

    - Marc
    Last edited by fotografz; 18th February 2014 at 02:52.
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamB View Post
    I'm amused that some people are apparently threatened by such a small camera (why else post negative impressions (and more than once) of a camera one doesn't own)?
    HI Graham
    I'm not threatened by it - I have one - I've had both, but currently have an A7. It's no good for taking pictures of people indoors because it changes they dynamic - people absolutely notice, and that's not (necessarily) what you want. Probably it would be okay for some situations in weddings - but not for others. FWIW I thought the NEX7 was too noisy as well.

    If it's a case of comparisons I also use a Ricoh GR, a Leica M240, an MM (also rather loud) and an Olympus E-M1. So sure - I'm comparing it to quiet cameras. One of the reasons I stopped using Nikon SLR's was I didn't like the attention they garnered.

    Obviously, for many people it's not an issue (and for me in some circumstances). but to say that people feel 'threatened' because they think it's an issue . . . .

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Graham
    I'm not threatened by it - I have one - I've had both, but currently have an A7. It's no good for taking pictures of people indoors because it changes they dynamic - people absolutely notice, and that's not (necessarily) what you want. Probably it would be okay for some situations in weddings - but not for others. FWIW I thought the NEX7 was too noisy as well.

    If it's a case of comparisons I also use a Ricoh GR, a Leica M240, an MM (also rather loud) and an Olympus E-M1. So sure - I'm comparing it to quiet cameras. One of the reasons I stopped using Nikon SLR's was I didn't like the attention they garnered.

    Obviously, for many people it's not an issue (and for me in some circumstances). but to say that people feel 'threatened' because they think it's an issue . . . .
    This is a highly personalized response that is based on your specific experiences and approach, obviously making it totally valid Jono.

    However, on the subject of wedding photography one cannot go from the personally specific and imply a generality to support one's preferences an overwhelmingly massive majority of wedding shooters, including the most famous and successful, use 35mm DSLRs that are just as noisy as this A7/A7R, and are more intrusive in size and presence.

    "No good for taking pictures indoors" is just such a generality which is disproved by all the wonderful, intimate, fly-on-the wall indoor images taken with the big, loud DSLRs that dominate wedding photography.

    People do not "absolutely notice" except perhaps for the first few self-conscience shots in a small room (which has more to do with getting their picture taken than size or sound of the camera), then they get on with what they are doing and forget about you. It has far more to do with how you blend in and how you approach the subjects than what is in your hand. A very common response I hear from clients is "Oh, my God! I didn't even know you were there." when in fact I was standing 4 feet from them using a big bad, mirror slapping Pro DSLR and honking' 24-70 zoom.

    - Marc
    Last edited by fotografz; 18th February 2014 at 08:37.
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    I think Marc put it all in the right perspective in his answers.
    That is my experience too, blend in the situation when in a room full of people, who also make their noises, they soon forget about you.
    It is not my experience at all that the whole dynamics in a room changes when they hear the first "clack"
    It is when you walk in the room and start fiddling with a camera that people are alert for a while but it is soon gone.
    In the street you got your shot most of the time when people hear the "clack clack" and you are moving on already and so are they. But often it isn't even noticed between all the street noise
    For me this sound thing is overrated, but I quess it can be big problem for some and in silent situations, that the sound can be disturbing. But now it starts to look like a huge problem , which it isn't in my opinion.
    Also 80% of my shots have not to do with people, but when I do it is not the big problem for me as it stated by many.
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    I'm tone deaf from Medium format. Lol

    It's more long in tone than normal so I think that is part of it. It really does not bother me but can understand if your coming from a RF system per say.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Loud!!? Try using a Fuji GX 680 III for almost two decades (-95) and most will experience impaired hearing.....
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    The loudness of the shutter simply means that its not suitable for people who really need a very quiet camera. The A7 is better than the A7R and, in my estimation, absolutely fine on the street etc, but for quiet orchestra pit work, or in theatres... or [instert similar] There are much better options.

    Its really no more complex than that. There seems to be an assumption in some quarters that the A7/R should be this or should be that, as if it must perform in the same vein as a Leica M240, or X100S, but why? It is its own camera with its own mix of pros and cons. It is and it will either suit you or it won't. I've certainly never made the assumption that a small camera will be quiet, or a large one noisy (5DIII being a good example). If a particular feature is important to me, I'll check it out and make my own mind up.

    In many respects the A7/R is a replacement for DSLRs for travel, landscape and documentary work rather than a replacement for the super quiet cameras out there.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    They could make a silencer for it but that would be frowned upon in some states.
    -bob
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Exactly. It isn't too loud unless it is. And that determination is made by the shooter or the subjects. In my case, it was the subjects, but I still have and use the camera.

    Part of the expectation problem is that Sony managed to make a small FF camera with a leaf shutter that is dead silent (RX1(r)). With that setup in the A7(r), we wouldn't be having this discussion. Instead someone would be complaining about some other aspect of the camera
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    This could also be addressed in firmware to some degree. Let's see what Sony does they have a good checklist by now to improve things. I think if memory serves me Leica tuned one of there cams via firmware. Age though I could be wrong. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    I've been using the 7r now since late December and wanted to share a couple thoughts on the shutter.

    First I have to go back about 40 years when I was using a combination of Minolta, Pentax, and Yashica to name drop a couple; shooting film and transparencies. I remember the shutter feeling like a 4-pound trigger pull and not all that quite. Fast forward to the past 10-years and I used Leica, Hasselblad and of course Canon and now Sony for 35mm.

    While the sound of the 7r is somewhat loud I don't feel it any louder that some of the other cameras I've used. The up-side to the shutter is that it is smooth.

    In an earlier life I shoot at targets that often exceeded 1000 yards using a rifle with top notch scope and a trigger that "broke" like a glass rod; in other words very clean, very smooth and very light. I see the shutter of the 7r much the same way. Yes it's louder that some other cameras yet it is one of the smoothest shutters I've had the pleasure to use.

    In the end I'll gladly trade perceived noise for a smooth breaking shutter that allows me to shoot at a lower speed.

    Just my 2.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Don remind me not to piss you off at 1000 yards. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Leaf shutters are a whole order of magnitude quieter and my X100 just embarrasses everything else I own for quietness.... except for my Mamiya 7 II, which also has leaf shutter lenses. Boy that's quiet for an oldie. Makes a barely audible 'tick'.

    Leaf shuttered lenses would be nice for low noise, but seeing as you have to pay for a shutter in every lens, I'm not keen on the huge additional outlay! I'm sure the A8, A9 etc will be a bit quieter.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Then you'd have to call it a 'muzzle weight'

    ... and just not point it at people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    They could make a silencer for it but that would be frowned upon in some states.
    -bob

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Certainly choosing the right tool for the right situation is paramount. If absolute stealth is needed, clearly toting a huge honking' D800 or 1Dx with a monster zoom is going to be no more unobtrusive than these amazing, diminutive new Schluckmeisters from Sony. But those are rare situations and in most cases regardless of any shutter issue, whether you go huge or small either direction should serve most folks admirably.

    I think with the advent of mirrorless cameras on the scene (so to speak), the expectation resulting from the initial examples and their meteoric refinement (including many fine iterations from Sony by the way) is that without the rise and fall of a mighty mirror in its innards and just a focal plane snap ALL these cameras would be quieter than their celluloid ancestors --whether 35mm or 120/220--and at least as quiet as fellow mirrorless designs.

    The pages of A7/A7r examples on the sister thread here have been nothing short of fantastic. Jaw dropping images by the score! A true testament to the capabilities of the wizards in Tokyo.

    It's just that the surprise (or disappointment) for some is that, given their new mirrorless lineage, the two cameras responsible for all that visual goodness should have been quieter than they are.

    And I'm hopeful that the same ingenuity at Sony will find a way to make this happen in the next go around.
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Maybe I am going deaf too...but my Fuji X 100S is silent. I mean like dead silent.

    Someone please tell me I am not going deaf..
    koffee & kamera
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    Loud!!? Try using a Fuji GX 680 III for almost two decades (-95) and most will experience impaired hearing.....
    The sound of the GX680 makes me expect little 3D copies of the subject coming out of the camera. Not only is it loud, but it produces a cacophony of noises lasting for a loooong while. For some reason though, maybe because the camera is so large and looks like some kind of industrial machinery, people don't really react much to the spectacle.
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    That's pretty darn true big camera you expect big noise and it won't disappoint you a anvil hit the concrete. Little cams you don't expect it
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    This is a highly personalized response that is based on your specific experiences and approach, obviously making it totally valid Jono.
    HI Marc
    I hope I made it clear that it was personal!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    However, on the subject of wedding photography one cannot go from the personally specific and imply a generality to support one's preferences an overwhelmingly massive majority of wedding shooters, including the most famous and successful, use 35mm DSLRs that are just as noisy as this A7/A7R, and are more intrusive in size and presence.
    I wasn't implying a generality - I was implying a personal specific - in a big room with lots of people it really isn't an issue - in a small room with a bride having her hair done I think it IS an issue - but I still realise it's my feeling.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    "No good for taking pictures indoors" is just such a generality which is disproved by all the wonderful, intimate, fly-on-the wall indoor images taken with the big, loud DSLRs that dominate wedding photography.
    Of course - but I wasn't trying to imply a generality from a specific - there are lots of approaches, but the fact that people have taken great pictures with noisy cameras doesn't (IMVHO) make noisy shutters a good thing! (or even that it doesn't matter).

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    People do not "absolutely notice" except perhaps for the first few self-conscience shots in a small room (which has more to do with getting their picture taken than size or sound of the camera), then they get on with what they are doing and forget about you.
    I actually disagree with you here about small rooms - sure if there's music in the background or loud talking - otherwise they notice the sound - specifically and actually . . of course it could be different over your side of the pond (shrug).

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    It has far more to do with how you blend in and how you approach the subjects than what is in your hand. A very common response I hear from clients is "Oh, my God! I didn't even know you were there." when in fact I was standing 4 feet from them using a big bad, mirror slapping Pro DSLR and honking' 24-70 zoom.
    It also has a lot to do with how you blend in and approach your subjects, but to say that it can be done with a camera with a noisy shutter doesn't mean that shutter noise doesn't matter.

    There are lots of factors which make for taking good photos in social environments - I'm not saying that a quiet shutter is the only factor - any more than camera size, high ISO ability and a hundred other factors (many of which the A7/r has got just right), but by saying that it isn't the only factor doesn't make it insignificant.

    I think that for me, this is the biggest disappointment in what is a fabulous camera in so many respects - I don't understand why it was necessary to have such a noisy shutter - Leica can make a quiet one in the M240 (less in the MM and M9 I agree) - Pentax can manage it in their SLRs, Olympus can manage it - why couldn't Sony? By the way - the A7 is only 'better' than the A7r, I still don't thick it's 'okay'.

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    If I may add when on a gig the people know I am there and if anything I'm more in the way than any camera noise. If your doing the wedding and your the paid shooter if a tank goes off thats your job. They will ignore you
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    If I may add when on a gig the people know I am there and if anything I'm more in the way than any camera noise. If your doing the wedding and your the paid shooter if a tank goes off thats your job. They will ignore you
    They will TRY and ignore you Guy, and they won't complain, but that doesn't mean they won't notice you!
    I'm not saying it's make or break, but there are hundreds of factors that go into getting it right (and I'm certainly not claiming to be an oracle).. What I AM saying is that, other things being equal, an unobtrusive camera with a quiet shutter is a tangible advantage.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    No question Jono and certainly times when being stealth is huge
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    The problem as you well know is sometimes these little niggles turn into monstrous issues on the internet. The shutter vibration and this have turn the world upside down. Not really sure 75 percent of it is fair or even actually a real issue but a perceived one
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    The problem as you well know is sometimes these little niggles turn into monstrous issues on the internet. The shutter vibration and this have turn the world upside down. Not really sure 75 percent of it is fair or even actually a real issue but a perceived one
    Yes! Maybe next time the few of us should just pm Guy and get him to say what we meant with our long explanations.. short and to the point!

    //Juha
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Lol
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    I used she-who-must-be-obeyed as my independent minded noise tester. She is not a photographer and has no horse in this race.

    I exposed her (sorry) to the shutters of the a99, Phase DF and the a7r.

    She shrugged and said they're all noisy and so what?

    So there you have it. There is no issue.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Guy is from New Jersey.
    When he wants an opinion he will give it to you.
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    ROTFLMAO.
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    I used she-who-must-be-obeyed as my independent minded noise tester. She is not a photographer and has no horse in this race.

    I exposed her (sorry) to the shutters of the a99, Phase DF and the a7r.

    She shrugged and said they're all noisy and so what?

    So there you have it. There is no issue.

    Bill

    There you go , good enough for me.
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    I honestly don't think generalities can be made about specific cameras and whether their shutters are too noisy or not. There are too many factors with regards to both the shooting circumstances and venues. Even different types of concerts or performances can vary greatly in their program as to whether the sound of a shutter would be intrusive or not and the venue itself and the prevail conditions with regards to both the participants and audience varies. I suspect this could be the case in somewhat smaller gatherings and events. Sometimes a typical DSLR shutter like the Nikon D3s won't pose a problem and sometimes it will. It all depends.

    All one can do is decide if the loudness/sound of a particular shutter is problematic or not in a given situation and if it is, then an alternative body is used during that period of time. What's good for one shooter and their endeavors may be inappropriate for another.

    Dave (D&A)
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    Dave your too logical and totally agree with you and wish the planet thought exactly as you. Problem is let's debate it for 180 days figure out a solution for another 180 days when the answer is simple buy it or not, no one is twisting anyone's arm here. If it don't work move on to something that will. This is not rocket science.

    I'm sorry as I write this i am getting short fussed lately on these mindless reviews , debates and so on lately. It's no one on this forum but reading elsewhere on many things photo is starting to get really sickening to me. So pardon me if I sound a little tilted

    Need. ROAD trip. Lol
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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    I dunno. The A7/A7r is not louder than my Nikon F (or FM). Yeah, a Leica M is quieter, and a leaf shutter/non-reflex/fixed lens camera much quieter still. So there are places where the A7 isn't really the best camera to use.

    But I did people and event photography with the aforementioned Nikon F and FM for years, even with a motor drive. There are certainly some situations where their noise is objectionable -- that quiet theater performance, the piano concert, etc -- but by and large being unobtrusive has much more to do with how you comport yourself vs how much noise the camera makes IMO.

    G

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    When I had my A7, I was at a small dinner party trying to do some discrete candids of friends. At one point the conversation lagged just as I pressed the shutter. Everyone simultaneously burst out laughing at my attempt to be sly. Yes, it's quieter than an SLR, but that's no yardstick for a mirrorless camera. I realize it doesn't matter for some applications, but if you need a quiet camera, this is not it.

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    Re: Wow! Is that thing ever loud!

    While I wish every camera was perfect and can do every single thing we want from it, including washing my car, we live in real world in which nothing is perfect so I don't understand why people feel the need to make such a noise (pun intended) about A7(R) not being perfect in everything. What's a big deal? Before A7(R) came out to market it wasn't crossing my mind to complain that shutter on my D700 was making it too loud for taking shots at symphony concert, I just wouldn't take it with me. You pick the tool that is right for task at hand, sometimes it's one, sometimes it's other, and you keep moving on.
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