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Thread: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

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    4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    ..hello to all..

    ..maybe i should post this in the large format department, but i try to start here..
    ..it is a coincidence that chiek shows this http://www.getdpi.com/forum/sony/499...ra-a7-a7r.html in his thread..by the way..impressive idea..

    ..as i own a speed graphic camera and have been looking for a while now to get an adapter that allows me to use my a7r to stitch (most of) the 4x5 photo area i only could find some that allow to stitch one row which results in a remarkably smaller scan area from some chinese sellers on the bay..there also is a back from fotodiox which allows to scan two rows including some overlap, but firstly the scanned area is also not enough for me as i want to capture the character of the lens used in the format the lens was calculated for and secondly its quite expensive for about 500 dollars..

    ..so i am highly interested in chieks product and am thinking about ordering one but having the speed graphic in my drawer i would prefer to use that one..given there is an adapter that i can really work with..

    ..oh, and i know there are the betterlight scanning backs, but they are much too expensive for me....and also not that convenient to use in the field..

    ..all thoughts and suggestions highly welcome..

    ..thx a lot in advance, erik..
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    Senior Member W.Utsch's Avatar
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Thats what i am looking for too.
    Have a Linhof 4x5 and International Back and searching a back for the A7R, something like the Rhionocam, which seems not to work with the A7.

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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Are there any made for other cameras that you can use with an adaptor?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    I think that this 4x5 model is now available for Sony E mount cameras. I recently ordered a similar Sony E mount plate for my 6x9 field camera.

    https://www.badgergraphic.com/store/..._detail&p=2859
    Carl
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    ..hmmm..thx for the link..but if i get it right it also only allows to stitch horizontally..what i am looking for or also am willing to try to build is an adapter that allows for scanning (almost) the full 4x5 area that is projected onto the ground glass..



    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    I think that this 4x5 model is now available for Sony E mount cameras. I recently ordered a similar Sony E mount plate for my 6x9 field camera.

    https://www.badgergraphic.com/store/..._detail&p=2859

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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    ..as far as i know not one that lets you get near the area that is projected onto e ground glass..unfortunately..it just doesnt make sense to me to stitch a 6x9 cm image if the 4x5 inch image is what delivers the characteristics of the lens used..



    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Are there any made for other cameras that you can use with an adaptor?

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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    ..yes..something like the rhinocam with an (almost) 4x5 inch stitching area..thats what i am looking for..

    Quote Originally Posted by W.Utsch View Post
    Thats what i am looking for too.
    Have a Linhof 4x5 and International Back and searching a back for the A7R, something like the Rhionocam, which seems not to work with the A7.
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    The A7r can be mounted to a Rhinocam plate in landscape orientation, but the larger grip does not allow rotation for portrait mode shooting. I was able to shoot 8 images (4x2) in landscape orientation which yielded a 148 mp (15601x9505) stitched image file. Used a Hasselblad 80mm f/2.8 Planar on the Rhinocam.
    Stitched image from Autopano Pro 3, each exposure was 4sec @ f/11, iso 100.



    Three 100% crops:





    Carl
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    Subscriber Member Chuck Jones's Avatar
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Carl, that is very impressive! Thanks for posting.

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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    ..i had thought about the rhinocam for a long time, but as i own a chamonix f1 and some decent lenses for it i let the rhinocam be..

    ..i see the technical troubles in contructing a 4x5 adapter that lets you stitch the whole (or most of) the 4x5 area and also fitting it into a graflok back..

    ..but hey..we have been to the moon (at least they tell us so..) so there must be a solution possible..i am just not very gifted in mechanics and building things..

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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Hi,

    I use one of these on my SINAR f (4x5) :
    Widepan 4 X 5 Large Format TO Digital Capture Back Adapter FOR Cannon | eBay

    I adapt my E-M5 via a Nikon F adapter, cheap from EBay
    I use the vertical shift from the SINAR backpost to create 3 horizontal rows and I need 6 shots (portrait position of the E-M5) to cover the width of the 4x5

    Thus, in 18 shots, I cover more or less the whole 4x5 area.

    This is an example, the original shot is 14733 x 8792 pixel and "weight" is 926 MB, resized for the purpose of sharing ...



    and 100% crop


    (Quick and dirty shot in the garden, taken all of 15min for shooting and PP)

    C U
    Rafael
    E-M1/GH2/G1 Full Spectrum & lots of lenses
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/f6cvalk...th/9226689839/
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    ..well..thats great..
    ..i had not wasted a thought on rear movements..
    ..but what if my camera doesnt provide rear shift..?..

    ..over in chieks thread there is an alpa stitching adapter mentioned..

    ..well..maybe i just should use FILM..

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    I had a nostalgic push recently when I saw Chiek cutting the GX680, so I pulled out my largeformat (Plaubel peco Profia Z) stuff and brought it (well at least my smallest, the 4x5" back to life after maybe 10 years in the storage.

    I found this Nex to 4x5 sliding adapter for a good price from china

    Moveable Camera Adapter F Sony Nex To Linhof Sinar Toyo Wista Horseman 4*5 | eBay

    this has the adavantage to save another 26mm of adapter depth if you use another DSLR sliding adapter. I have rebought a full bag of japanese Nikkor Ws and Fuji SWDs now to rerun the LF I am also looking for an RZ adapter.
    (I had sold all my LF Rodie glass long ago when they were still expensive....)

    This is a reminiscence to my first self made Digitalcamera back in 1996, glad I had all this stuff hangin around, cause I was not able to sell it, would have broken my heart.

    so that should enable multishots with minimum 60x80mm (probably 8shots) on the RZ lenses and 100x200mm (and more- probably28-30 shots) with a whopping over 1 Gigapixel)..........

    Ill report about the results.
    Nothing for a hurry, but will come steadily....
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de
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    Member chiek's Avatar
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    wow, leaf DCB2 and tricolor wheel !
    It's my first digital back, However actually the first was scanback.

    I've designed similar project yours. but just only my heads..
    after my gx680/a7 project, I will make it.

    I'm looking forward your project.
    thanks,
    JK
    chiek imaging
    http://chiek.co.kr
    Sinar P2, Hasselblad CFV-50c and Sony a7R, canon systems

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    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    If you don't mind me saying so, I have a feeling it could be a mutually very beneficial cooperation if you both, Stefan and Chiek, would consider throwing both your brains into a common project/business proposal.

    Now, where is Thierry Hagenauer?

    Get him on board as well!

    ...ahem... cough cough... I am serious!

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    what you dont see there: this Plaubel had an electronic Horseman ISS backlens shutter - using size 3 - that was state of the art at that time,easily matching the sinar but for maybe 1/3 the price. I could use Pentax 6/7 or Hasselblad lenses. The possible Movements were quite spectacular and- the DCBII Live was only a small chip, so only the very center of the lenses was used.

    Sweetspotting...... :-)

    Georg, I had contacted Chiek the moment I saw his 680 !! ....:-)
    And Thierry lives close to my place in Schaffhausen, we do FB regularly...
    Even Better I am now in close contact with Markus Michelberger from Mirex and I do work with Novoflex in memmingen for some years now.

    We are breeding.....

    Greetings from beautiful Allgu
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    The A7r can be mounted to a Rhinocam plate in landscape orientation, but the larger grip does not allow rotation for portrait mode shooting. I was able to shoot 8 images (4x2) in landscape orientation which yielded a 148 mp (15601x9505) stitched image file. Used a Hasselblad 80mm f/2.8 Planar on the Rhinocam.
    Stitched image from Autopano Pro 3, each exposure was 4sec @ f/11, iso 100.
    I removed the Rhinocam ground glass preview screen that was obstructing the A7r and now it works fine. Simply remove 4 small screws and the ground glass unit pops right off. If you need the screen for composition it can easily be put back on after mounting and rotating the A7r into shooting position. I posted a test sample pano consisting of 8 shots stitched and cropped to produce a 133 MP file.
    Carl
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    I had a nostalgic push recently when I saw Chiek cutting the GX680, so I pulled out my largeformat (Plaubel peco Profia Z) stuff and brought it (well at least my smallest, the 4x5" back to life after maybe 10 years in the storage.

    I found this Nex to 4x5 sliding adapter for a good price from china

    Moveable Camera Adapter F Sony Nex To Linhof Sinar Toyo Wista Horseman 4*5 | eBay

    this has the adavantage to save another 26mm of adapter depth if you use another DSLR sliding adapter. I have rebought a full bag of japanese Nikkor Ws and Fuji SWDs now to rerun the LF I am also looking for an RZ adapter.
    (I had sold all my LF Rodie glass long ago when they were still expensive....)

    This is a reminiscence to my first self made Digitalcamera back in 1996, glad I had all this stuff hangin around, cause I was not able to sell it, would have broken my heart.

    so that should enable multishots with minimum 60x80mm (probably 8shots) on the RZ lenses and 100x200mm (and more- probably28-30 shots) with a whopping over 1 Gigapixel)..........

    Ill report about the results.
    Nothing for a hurry, but will come steadily....
    ..very, very cool indeed..

    ..thx for the link to the ebay adapter..i had seen that one also..
    ..problem for me is that instead of shifting the front to get most of the 4x5 area i would hihgly prefer to find a solution to get (most) of the picture composition i have on the gg of my chamonix into the a7 without altering the lenses characteristics by shifting..
    ..but this seems to not be so easy..

    ..anyway, shifting for multirows of course works..

    ..looking forward to the results of the breeding..:-)..

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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Hi Scho,
    With regards to the Rhinocam, I am just wondering how the alignment points work given that it is using the larger full frame A7R?

    Do you require less stitches? Or do you do the same amount of stitches and there is just more overlap?

    If using the Groundglass, is the image seen in the GG the same?

    Ok, thanks so much.

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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by wallpaperviking View Post
    Hi Scho,
    With regards to the Rhinocam, I am just wondering how the alignment points work given that it is using the larger full frame A7R?

    Do you require less stitches? Or do you do the same amount of stitches and there is just more overlap?

    If using the Groundglass, is the image seen in the GG the same?

    Ok, thanks so much.
    I just used the marked set points for portrait orientation shooting, 4 images in two rows. Since the points are calibrated for the smaller NEX sensor there is more overlap between frames. I didn't use the ground glass for previewing this first test, but I will do a comparison later.
    Carl
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Hi Scho,

    Thanks so much for the reply back, much appreciated! I am definitely keen to get one of these to give it a go.. I have a whole range of Pentax 67 lenses (45mm - 200mm) that I would love to see getting some use..

    For my style of shooting, having front shift is very important and I see the Rhinocam being mainly used for landscape/architecture, just wondering if you can see if there is a possibility of having the Rhinocam being able to be somehow modified to have a Canon Eos mount on it? Or is there simply not enough room to allow this?

    Currently it takes Mamiya 645, Pentax 645 and Hasselblad mounts right?

    So my thinking is that if it is somehow able to take a Canon Eos mount, then I would be able to attach my Mirex Canon Eos - Mamiya 645 tilt/shift adapter and then via another adapter ( Mamiya 645 - Pentax 67 ) be able to get movements out of my Pentax 67 lenses

    Currently the only way i see being able to achieve this, is to buy the Rhinocam with a Mamiya 645 mount and using the Mamiya 645 55mm Shift lens on it.. Via another adapter (M645 - P67) you would also be able to access the Pentax 67 75mm Shift..

    I do not own either of these lenses but as mentioned before, do own a whole bunch of Pentax 67 lenses..

    Phew, hope that makes sense...

    Thanks again, much appreciated!

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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    I removed the Rhinocam ground glass preview screen that was obstructing the A7r and now it works fine. Simply remove 4 small screws and the ground glass unit pops right off. If you need the screen for composition it can easily be put back on after mounting and rotating the A7r into shooting position. I posted a test sample pano consisting of 8 shots stitched and cropped to produce a 133 MP file.
    One more test shot using the Sony A7r + Rhinocam with Hassy 80 Planar. Groundglass removed to allow mounting A7r in portrait orientation. This was a 5x2 for a ten shot stitched 196 MP file.



    Original

    100% Screen grab crop



    Same test scene shot with the A7r and Hasselblad 40mm f/4 Distagon on the rhinocam in landscape orientation. Six shot pano.

    Carl
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by wallpaperviking View Post
    Hi Scho,

    Thanks so much for the reply back, much appreciated! I am definitely keen to get one of these to give it a go.. I have a whole range of Pentax 67 lenses (45mm - 200mm) that I would love to see getting some use..

    For my style of shooting, having front shift is very important and I see the Rhinocam being mainly used for landscape/architecture, just wondering if you can see if there is a possibility of having the Rhinocam being able to be somehow modified to have a Canon Eos mount on it? Or is there simply not enough room to allow this?

    Currently it takes Mamiya 645, Pentax 645 and Hasselblad mounts right?

    So my thinking is that if it is somehow able to take a Canon Eos mount, then I would be able to attach my Mirex Canon Eos - Mamiya 645 tilt/shift adapter and then via another adapter ( Mamiya 645 - Pentax 67 ) be able to get movements out of my Pentax 67 lenses

    Currently the only way i see being able to achieve this, is to buy the Rhinocam with a Mamiya 645 mount and using the Mamiya 645 55mm Shift lens on it.. Via another adapter (M645 - P67) you would also be able to access the Pentax 67 75mm Shift..

    I do not own either of these lenses but as mentioned before, do own a whole bunch of Pentax 67 lenses..

    Phew, hope that makes sense...

    Thanks again, much appreciated!
    If you need tilt/shift capability you could just mount the rhinocam on any 4x5 that has a grafloc adapter for backs. Fits fine on my Shen-Hao field camera.
    Carl
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by scho View Post
    If you need tilt/shift capability you could just mount the rhinocam on any 4x5 that has a grafloc adapter for backs. Fits fine on my Shen-Hao field camera.
    ..do you mean by this that the 'normal' rhinocam fits a universal graflok back..?

    ..this would be great news and the solution to my problems..:-)..

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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by psy501 View Post
    ..do you mean by this that the 'normal' rhinocam fits a universal graflok back..?

    ..this would be great news and the solution to my problems..:-)..
    Yes.
    Carl
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    ..great..thx a lot..

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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by psy501 View Post
    ..great..thx a lot..
    You are welcome. Here is a rough cellphone snap of the rhinocam on my 4x5.

    Carl
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    ..suuuper..so it will fit my chamonix also..ha..thx a lot..you saved me..:-)..:-)..

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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Hi Carl, you owe me $300. Last night I ordered the Vizelex. lol!
    I have a 4X5 Tachihara. I am wondering if it would be possible to attach the Rhinocam (no Graflok).
    Very excited about this whole thing. My converted IR A6000 is ready for shipping.
    Best
    Eduardo
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    Hi Carl, you owe me $300. Last night I ordered the Vizelex. lol!
    I have a 4X5 Tachihara. I am wondering if it would be possible to attach the Rhinocam (no Graflok).
    Very excited about this whole thing. My converted IR A6000 is ready for shipping.
    Best
    Eduardo
    I don't know how you can attach the rhinocam w/o a grafloc connection. Look forward to seeing some hi res IR images from your converted 6000 on the rhino. I have an older IR converted NEX 5N that works well on the rhinocam.
    Carl
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    [email protected]: thx again for the valuable info..a few questions left..:-)..i suppose you detach the mamiya/hasselblad/pentax adapter from the rhinocam plate..?

    ..is there some kind of workaround to stitch a bigger area as is provided by the rhinocam..?..i can live with it but getting an area a bit closer to the 4x5 the lenses provide would be fine..

    ..build quality is ok..?

    ..thx a lot, carl..best regards, erik..

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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    ..ah..forgot one..:-)..the handgrip of the a7 is no show stopper if i got it right..sorry if you mentioned it already..i am on vacation right now with an unstable internet connection..so i have to be quick reading..:-)..

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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    thx again for the valuable info..a few questions left..:-)..i suppose you detach the mamiya/hasselblad/pentax adapter from the rhinocam plate..?

    Yes, take off the lens adapter if you want to mount the plate on a 4x5.

    ..is there some kind of workaround to stitch a bigger area as is provided by the rhinocam..?..i can live with it but getting an area a bit closer to the 4x5 the lenses provide would be fine..

    I haven't explored this but I don't think that you can cover the whole 4x5 area.

    ..build quality is ok..?

    Yes, OK, but not exceptional. You have to be a bit careful rotating the camera adapter between vertical and horizontal positions. the set screw is a little flimsy.
    Carl
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by psy501 View Post
    ..ah..forgot one..:-)..the handgrip of the a7 is no show stopper if i got it right..sorry if you mentioned it already..i am on vacation right now with an unstable internet connection..so i have to be quick reading..:-)..
    No problem, but you need to remove the ground glass preview/framing unit before mounting the A7. I've found that it is often easier to just use the camera LCD for estimating the image composition by moving the camera to the begin and end stop positions for the stitch.
    Carl
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Yes, I guess Rhinocam imported chinese sliding back products and mod to stitching. 100% fit for Graflok back
    Last edited by chiek; 26th May 2014 at 07:19.
    chiek imaging
    http://chiek.co.kr
    Sinar P2, Hasselblad CFV-50c and Sony a7R, canon systems

  36. #36
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by chiek View Post
    Yes, I guess Rhinocam imported chinese sliding back products and mod to stitching. 100% fit for braflok back
    Agree, I think that is exactly what they did.
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    ..btw..does one you have experience with the multistitch..?..its of course more expensive, but it seems to have the advantage that it covers a bigger area than the rhinocam..but it is not natively emount..its canon/nikon and has to be used with an adapter which i think makes a long barrel when mounting the a7 behind and probably introduces some vignetting..?

    ..thx in advance for sharing your thoughts/experiences..

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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    Quote Originally Posted by psy501 View Post
    ..btw..does one you have experience with the multistitch..?..its of course more expensive, but it seems to have the advantage that it covers a bigger area than the rhinocam..but it is not natively emount..its canon/nikon and has to be used with an adapter which i think makes a long barrel when mounting the a7 behind and probably introduces some vignetting..?

    ..thx in advance for sharing your thoughts/experiences..
    Looks promising if you want to use 4x5 camera and LF lenses. Is he going to make an E mount version? Seems that the A7r would be perfect for this, but I don't think I would want to use a Canon/Nikon mount with adapter.
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    Re: 4x5 adapter for graflok back for use with sony a7r

    ..yes it does look promising, but i just found out by further reading that you have to attach and detach the adapter several times to get the maximum coverage and you also have to flip it inside out what makes it useable for studio and tabletop work..but forget about landscape..:-(..:-)..

    ..so it seems the rhinocam is the way to go..

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