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Thread: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    It is a tough decision because most of us want both but Sony is coming out with a 16-35 FE which maybe really good and maybe the better general travel all a rounder than the WATE . Have the 17 or 24 TSE for more serious shooting when movements are more the need.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Yes, I was thinking about this as well. It definitely won't cost 5K either although it is nice to know that Leica glass usually holds its' value. Tough decisions

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    I just finished 3 more tests this morning. I'll have it up in a couple hours. Tested 17vs17 with extender 1.4 . Tested my ND filters for color balance both AWB and Daylight. With WB card and just realized I left the damn card behind. I'll go get it after breakfast. Than I tested shifting max both 17 and 24 focal lengths vs a single horizontal
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Okay first test show the 17mm with the 1.4 extender which equals a 24mm lens is never going to come close to the standard 24TSE and I can only guess that since its not close to the 17mm straight up and most folks say the 24mm TSE is a little better than the 17mm. My conclusion here its a stop gap idea to use the 17MM with the 1.4 extender to get a 24mm TSE its good but not great. I do hope I had focus here but my guess is i did. My feeling the 1.4 extender would be a far better tool on the 24mm TSE to get a 33mm TSE. So i may just keep the extender for now but when I get the 24TSE it will be a useful tool for that lens much better. Just need to find another 1800 dollars to get a good used 24mm TSE. Its always about the money is it not. LOL

    Ill get examples up here in a few
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Okay straight 17mm first than second one I added the extender and pulled back to match framing. These are wide open. Remember I do lose a stop in exposure but since I was in A mode that comes off the shutter speed so no effect on Aperture so technically they match in Aperture numbers



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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    I will say this the 17mm is just killer in the corners. Crops coming next
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Okat at F4



    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    That pretty much tells the story I will just go to F11 as that would be far more reality with these kinds of lenses. It never gets great but gets workable and if corners don't mean much to you do this otherwise you want a sharp 24mm TSE in the corners than get the lens designed for 24mm FOV
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Again this is pretty clear here so pardon me I just jumped over to F11 since its a time issue



    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Is it bad. No is it great, not if you really need the corners but it is workable.

    Okay that concludes that test. Next one is interesting and it deals with ND filters and color shift
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Okay this is about ND 100mm Glass filters and there has been a lot of talk about color shift with ND 1.8 and ND 3.0 and not all of it has been good. I did my research and from some reports Haida Filters came up pretty good but I have seen some color shift but it is easy to correct. Here is the good news they are glass 100mm ND and they cost less than 100 dollars whereas Lee Little and Big stoppers are far more expensive but casuse issues. Go figure cheaper but better.

    Now I do see a color shift going from No Filter to a 1.8 ( 6 stops) to a 3.0 (10 stops)

    Now I shot this two ways i first shot it daylight settings and all the images come up with exactly the same kelvin temp as it should since you are shooting at a fixed number and if you had a color card in the shot its very easy to WB each image and between the three they are very close with maybe a 200 max color shift. Not going to show that series but show you the ones where I did AWB in the camera and than show you the WB on all three of those images instead and it should represent the corrections for the Daylight one as well in look. Confusing I know but it will clear up here as soon as I post images.

    Now one thing you do get exposure variance a little when using filters they tend to go darker in exposures i balanced that pretty much.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    This is quite interesting. Once again this is shot in AWB mode and watch the temp and tint change here with No filter a ND 1.8 and ND 3.0. Not all things seem as they should be, so don't assume anything because the difference between the ND 1.8 and 3.0 goes the other way than you would think. Now this is exactly what came up in camera on my kelvin and tint numbers.

    No filter at all.



    ND 1.8



    ND 3.0

    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Now this next series is I took each file from the ones above and WB off the Passport Color checker in pretty much the same spot. But alas not always the same color balance that comes up but its very very close so you could ignore it unless you are on critical color mission. There is also something else that came up that i notice . My blue skies get bluer from the ND 1.8 and ND 3.0 even though the color temp is fairly close here but my thinking is I am cutting off more IR bleed with the ND 3.0. Thats my assumption
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Okay each file WB from the same spot.





    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Everything fairly close once you WB between the Non filter image to the two ND filter images but again as you can see blue skies get bluer with the stronger ND filters. the only thing that makes sense to me is IR color bleed in the filters gets stronger as well.

    Now this test may not be exactly for you and your needs but I like the test for myself of course because now I know what to expect but I think its good overall to understand what ND filters can do. BTW I think the first shot was 1/160 of a second, ND 1.8 was 1/8th of a second and the ND 3.0 was 6 seconds. So if your doing water type things this gives you a good idea of the timing all shot at F8

    On to next test and thats shifting
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Not sure how to show this but stitching the 17mm you will have to do three shots one 12mm Left one 12mm right and you need to do a Center shot as well. I tried a 2 shot at the extreme 12mm on both sides and the gap for stitching them together is just to thin for any program to stitch together if not missing a few rows of pixels so you have to go three shots.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    First shot is a straight 17mm Horizontal shot. The second is a three shot stitch shot although bad sky that is not what i want to see but area covered is what I am after



    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Going from a Horizontal to vertical with my L bracket through the registration off but you can see you do get more area when doing a 3 shot stitch with a 17mm. You also get more top and bottom so this could be very useful at times when you need to get wider. My guess more like a 14 or 15mm focal length
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Last test now a 3 shot stitch with the 17mm with 1.4 extender for a effective 24mm

    First shot a straight 24mm than second shot a 3 shot stitch



    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Looks like maybe a 16mm lens in width.

    Anyway i am done this thread is now complete on everything you wanted to know about a Canon 17mm TSE lens and a canon 1.4 extender and where afraid to ask.

    Please send big checks to Guy In the Sky Mancuso as he needs to buy more glass. Please support my GAS habits.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Cold turkey is the best solution. Otherwise you end up with a lot of lenses and no food on the table.
    Thank you anyway for your insights.
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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Heck I need food too. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Thank you for your effort Guy. I one these 2 lenses and the 1.4XII. My conclusions are more or less the same. I've never noticed by eye color shifts with any of these 2 lenses, even with the converter.
    Maybe my 17TS/1.4X copies are superb and my copy of 24TSE not so much but I at least in the center they look about equal sharp.
    This pair of lenses are reason enough to move to the EOS system. Even with the outdated sensor. Canon knows it :-(
    Eduardo

    PS Forgot to say: I don't have an A7 camera. Just a 6D and before a 5DMkII
    Last edited by Uaiomex; 12th September 2014 at 12:51.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Thanks, Guy, for all the testing and posting of the results.

    There is a lot of data in this thread and it is certainly useful for me, having both a Canon 5DIII and Sony A7r.
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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    I thought about putting this into a review and changing the title. I think I could copy it and do that too. i do have some control here. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    great thread, Guy!!
    answers my question about using a 1.4 converter :-)

    I made a test series with the Leica M9: the 17mm TS-E shifted max in all possible directions and overlay of real 12mm, 18mm and 21mm:
    (click for larger view)



    my complete album with the 17mm TS-E on Sony A7R, NEX-7 and Leica M9 is here:
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/dierkt...7633127554716/
    regards
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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Thanks a lot, Guy for the tests and %100 crops.
    -----------
    Manouch

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Thanks folks. I think we have some solid answers now on what works what does not and more important how to go about it with this lens. Right now I think I will keep the whole 100mm filter kit as it works really nice and honestly when using ND filters I don't see myself doing shifting work with water type shots and I think my limits of 5mm shift either way will just fine
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Quote Originally Posted by dierk View Post
    great thread, Guy!!
    answers my question about using a 1.4 converter :-)

    I made a test series with the Leica M9: the 17mm TS-E shifted max in all possible directions and overlay of real 12mm, 18mm and 21mm:
    (click for larger view)



    my complete album with the 17mm TS-E on Sony A7R, NEX-7 and Leica M9 is here:
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/dierkt...7633127554716/

    So looks more like a 3 shot stitch equals about 12mm. Man that is extremely wide . Great lens I highly recommend it for your extreme wide. Its a keeper
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    So looks more like a 3 shot stitch equals about 12mm. Man that is extremely wide . Great lens I highly recommend it for your extreme wide. Its a keeper
    yes, its is very wide, if you use the full shift, but the corners are getting very poor too.
    If you stay at 5mm shift, you are on the save side. But I shifted to the maximum on stitched images and crop later.

    Would you recommend the 1.4 converter or is a separate 24mm far better (and more expensive, but with filters)?
    regards
    dierk
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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    I would say if your into the corners get the 24TSE and if you have the 1.4 it will work better on the 24 for a nice 33mm. I heard it works well on the 24.

    Right now I will use the 1.4 on the 17mm until I can buy the 24.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Make that a 36mm
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    talking tilt/shift:

    don't forget the great PC Micro Nikkor 85mm/2.8
    this is the manual version, not the PC-E!!

    no problems on the A7R (Micro Nikkor 85mm/2.8 PC tilt/shift, painted with light from tablet):



    one more


    here on the NEX-7 (before I got the A7R)


    dierk
    regards
    dierk
    my flickr
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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Today I had the chance to try the Otus 1,4/85mm with our new HCam Master TS Adapter. It will allow a shift of 10mm all around -adding 20mm bidirectional either to 24mm or 36mm.

    This is significantly more than the 1,4/55mm Otus which has only some few mm making if defacto only usable for tilt.

    Greetings from Cologne-Photokina 2014
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: A7R with TSE 17 and 24 color shift question

    Might be nice on a digital back setup
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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