The Sony A7II

[iiiNelson]

According to Sony's homepage, there are 7 FE lenses available now of which 2 are primes. Any mirrorless camera can use adapted lenses. As for strategy, which one are you talking about? The Alpha strategy, the NEX strategy or the FE strategy?

Sony's past isn't very long ago. They came up with a usable, although nothing near complete, lens lineup for the Alphas, partly because they inherited Minolta's designs. They don't seem to develop new lenses for Alpha, SLT or whatever it's called nowadays. Correct me if I'm wrong.

After nearly 5 years, the NEX or E lens lineup is rather mediocre with a few shining exceptions. Will there be more lenses for E?

For FE, they have a roadmap and 7 lenses. Even for the unloved Nikon 1 there are 13 lenses currently available.

So far, Sony have shown what Sony always show: Premium technology in a fun package.

You're forgetting the Samyang and Zeiss Loxia lenses... Not autofocus but native lenses nonetheless. I don't know that Panasonic nor Olympus had 14 lenses combined in Micro 4/3 within the first year.

As for strategy there is only the Alpha strategy now. I won't pretend that it's perfect because it's not. There's the A and (F)E mount - to which all of the E mount lenses can also be used in crop mode. There's the A mount lenses that offer AF and FF coverage. Yes there's still room to grow and yes there are gaps but we are talking about a system that is a year old.

If you're counting the APS-C E-mount lenses then they have the bulk of the gaps covered as well. There's not much I'm interested in in the crop system but it's not really made for me either.

 

[horshack]

so А99 being a FF camera does not have IBIS ?

Never could get a significant benefit from the IBIS on A900 or A99. Plus the A99 is a bit behind in low-light performance vs non-SLT implementations of the Sony Exmors.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Now, here's an interesting comparison with the other "new kid on the block", the Samsung NX1. The Samsung has a crop sensor, 1.5x, so the Sony is undoubtedly nicer for legacy lenses. The Samsung also cannot be fitted with a Speed Booster due to lens mount restrictions.

First, the normal zooms. In Sony's case, it's a 24-70mm f/4, a combo that weighs 1,029 grams. The Samsung sports a 16-50mm f/2.0-2.8 (roughly 24-75mm f/2.8-4.0 eqv.) and weighs 1,232 grams.

Then the telephoto comparison. The Sony with the 70-200mm f/4 weighing 1,439 grams. The Samsung has a the 50-150mm f/2.8 mounted (roughly 75-225mm f/4.0 eqv.) and weighs 1,525 grams.

Prices should be roughly comparable as well. As we all know very well now, the Sony includes IBIS, probably a very good one, while the Samsung relies on OIS, again making the Sony superior for legacy glass. The Sony is 24MP and the Samsung 28MP (backlit sensor).

But... even with the improvements of the Sony ergonomics, and without having tried any of these cameras, the Samsung seems to be the winner in that department. The Samsung also has a battery with almost twice the capacity (13.6 vs. 7.3 Wh), it includes a "good, old-fashioned" top LCD, shoots 15fps, shoots 4K internally with the new, very space saving H.265 video codec, has a pop-up flash etc. etc. etc.

There are too few lenses available for the NX too of course, only 12 at the moment, not including the two pictured above, which are both new (December delivery?). However, it does include an 85mm f/1.4 and a couple of other good primes.

This is not saying that the A7 II is bad camera. It's absolutely the opposite. But, if I should choose a camera to live with day after day, for all kinds of assignments, and should choose a mirrorless from one of these two electronics giants, it would be an easy choice for me. That is what makes the Sony look like a hobby camera and if Sony doesn't fix that with the next iteration of the A-series (the A9?), I see no long term future for these other than as an alternative to Leica and for special use, like with the low light friendly A7s. That isn't bad in itself, but I don't think that was Sony's ambition when they acquired the camera division of Konica-Minolta.

 

[Vivek]

Jorgen, You are on the record here(this forum) that you only buy stuff that is outdated. There is no chance of you are remotely being interested in either Samsung or Sony. So there is no danger any of these would be actually used for any assignments any time in the near future ( ie about 4 years). :ROTFL:

Sony gear is not in a " hobby" category. You may want to check some other fine manufacturers who cater to that segment.

 

[dandrewk]

Why would someone who "doesn't trust Sony" even consider something from Samsung, perhaps the only company whose reputation is lower than those in the petrochemical and tobacco industries?

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Jorgen, You are on the record here(this forum) that you only buy stuff that is outdated. There is no chance of you are remotely being interested in either Samsung or Sony. So there is no danger any of these would be actually used for any assignments any time in the near future ( ie about 4 years). :ROTFL:

Sony gear is not in a " hobby" category. You may want to check some other fine manufacturers who cater to that segment.

Spot on, Vivek, spot on. None of these can compete with my D2Xs anyway :ROTFL:

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Why would someone who "doesn't trust Sony" even consider something from Samsung, perhaps the only company whose reputation is lower than those in the petrochemical and tobacco industries?

I trust neither, nor do I trust Panasonic, which I currently use (and who kept one of my cameras for repair for 6 months), but Samsung has produced what seems to be a very usable apparatus, one that would be very useful for much of my work. Still, I have learned from experience that it pays off to keep a couple of Nikon bodies just in case

There's always a "but" with Sony. The A7s is fantastic for video and low light stills, "but" you need an external box to shoot 4K. The A7r is pocket sized medium format, more or less, "but" it says "click clack" when in use and ergonomics suck. I have a GH3 that is inferior in almost every way compared to any A7. On paper. "But" ergonomics are fantastic, the battery goes on and on, it focuses faster than greased lightning and I can use it to hammer nails with. It's cheap also because, as Vivek points out, I only buy ancient, obsolete technology

 

[dandrewk]

Too bad we can't throw all these camera bodies into a futuristic machine and cherry pick which features we would like from each.

Even with that, though, somebody will find it lacking.

 

[lambert]

I trust neither, nor do I trust Panasonic, which I currently use (and who kept one of my cameras for repair for 6 months), but Samsung has produced what seems to be a very usable apparatus, one that would be very useful for much of my work. Still, I have learned from experience that it pays off to keep a couple of Nikon bodies just in case

There's always a "but" with Sony. The A7s is fantastic for video and low light stills, "but" you need an external box to shoot 4K. The A7r is pocket sized medium format, more or less, "but" it says "click clack" when in use and ergonomics suck. I have a GH3 that is inferior in almost every way compared to any A7. On paper. "But" ergonomics are fantastic, the battery goes on and on, it focuses faster than greased lightning and I can use it to hammer nails with. It's cheap also because, as Vivek points out, I only buy ancient, obsolete technology

There's a "but" with every camera on the market! Sony seem to be working harder than any other maker right now to resolve them. Samsung are also putting up a great fight. The rest will be left fighting for the crumbs.

 

[lambert]

Now, here's an interesting comparison with the other "new kid on the block", the Samsung NX1. The Samsung has a crop sensor, 1.5x, so the Sony is undoubtedly nicer for legacy lenses. The Samsung also cannot be fitted with a Speed Booster due to lens mount restrictions.

Prices should be roughly comparable as well. As we all know very well now, the Sony includes IBIS, probably a very good one, while the Samsung relies on OIS, again making the Sony superior for legacy glass. The Sony is 24MP and the Samsung 28MP (backlit sensor).

IBIS will not just benefit legacy lenses. It will be also be a HUGE benefit to FE mount prime lenses, none of which are stabilised. This is critical for hand held video.

The show-stopper with the Samsung NX1 (particularly for video) is that their primes do not have IS.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

IBIS will not just benefit legacy lenses. It will be also be a HUGE benefit to FE mount prime lenses, none of which are stabilised. This is critical for hand held video.

The show-stopper with the Samsung NX1 (particularly for video) is that their primes do not have IS.

I agree, and in this respect it's a 2 lens system, plus the 85mm for portraits. This is also why I keep coming back to m4/3 and Nikon; those two systems in combination work very, very well and offer any option I can think of expect a compact 35mm camera with IBIS and great video :loco:

That's why I'm here discussing the Sony to start with

 

[sloppywmu]

The NX1 is classic Samsung. "Just throw everything we have at it because people like spec lists".

Sony is becoming the camera iteration company. Maybe they need the profits to fund the development of more cameras. I the fact they are shrinking these technologies. But bemoan the fact they are ignoring boring things like relatively cheap primes and firmware polishes.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

The NX1 is classic Samsung. "Just throw everything we have at it because people like spec lists".

Sony is becoming the camera iteration company. Maybe they need the profits to fund the development of more cameras. I the fact they are shrinking these technologies. But bemoan the fact they are ignoring boring things like relatively cheap primes and firmware polishes.

Both of those corporations have huge R&D departments that come up with new, bleeding edge technology more or less on a daily basis. To pay for all those techies, and to stay ahead of the other monster, they pack whatever cool new invention they can think of into as many products as they can, trying to convince the consumers, us, that this is needed to take photos, listen to music, brush our teeth or whatever. And since we all have dysfunctional memories, we forget the wonderful photos we took with the OM-1 and a 50mm some 40 years ago, and how simple technology can be and still work very satisfactory.

 

[sloppywmu]

I think you nailed it Jorgen. I'm starting to believe the sweet spot is two years behind the bleeding edge.

 

[Steve P.]

Both of those corporations have huge R&D departments that come up with new, bleeding edge technology more or less on a daily basis.

They are truly evil!

 

[Annna T]

Then there is no point in looking at it, is there? If the seller won't ship then what is the point?

The point is that you can compare market prices and Ebay is also a great source of information when you want to know specifications and what kind of accessories exists : that a given item isn't shipping now to my country doesn't mean that there won't be another vendor selling it here in the coming days. They are rendering the market less transparent, aka less free. They prevent customers to be well informed. Earlier, there was a filter to choose between shipping worldwide or not. Now this option has disappeared : they are making the choice for me and I don't like it. Why should they prevent me to just see an item ? In what is it their business whether the vendor will agree to sell it to me or not ? If I had the vendor's email, I could always try to send them an email and negotiate.

 

[Vivek]

The point is that you can compare market prices and Ebay is also a great source of information when you want to know specifications and what kind of accessories exists : that a given item isn't shipping now to my country doesn't mean that there won't be another vendor selling it here in the coming days. They are rendering the market less transparent, aka less free. They prevent customers to be well informed. Earlier, there was a filter to choose between shipping worldwide or not. Now this option has disappeared : they are making the choice for me and I don't like it. Why should they prevent me to just see an item ? In what is it their business whether the vendor will agree to sell it to me or not ? If I had the vendor's email, I could always try to send them an email and negotiate.

You Madam or Sir, just do not know how to use ebay. Your difficulties are squarely based on the problems with your browser and its settings, it looks like. No sane company will be posting emails of the vendors or buyers online.

I posted the number for the L plate for Tre (and anyone) who can buy it if interested.

 

[Annna T]

You Madam or Sir, just do not know how to use ebay. Your difficulties are squarely based on the problems with your browser and its settings, it looks like. No sane company will be posting emails of the vendors or buyers online.

I posted the number for the L plate for Tre (and anyone) who can buy it if interested.

You can have exchanges with vendors through Ebay. Some have a website or a store on EBay where you find contact information outside of Ebay. I have already exchanged with several China dealers or with Kenmore Cameras in the US for instance.

I followed your number and this is where I got the EBay warning preventing me access.

This is OT, so I will leave it there.

 

[Vivek]

And since we all have dysfunctional memories, we forget the wonderful photos we took with the OM-1 and a 50mm some 40 years ago, and how simple technology can be and still work very satisfactory.

The OM-1 was state of the art at that time. Nothing "simple" about it.

Olympus OM1 SLR camera - Part I

Olympus Optical Co. claimed a reduction of 35 per cent in volume compared with the average SLR and a similar reduction in weight.

Here is a more dated thought.

“The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.”

― Omar Khayyam

 

[tn1krr]

MMm since Sony has now a big share of Olympus and since the five axis stabilisators have been included by Olympus, they have probably got some know how from Olympus. I doubt the Sony IBIS is entirely designed by them from scratch, even if Olympus declared some weeks ago that they were not sharing camera knowledge with Sony. Of course, Sony will had to adapt the principles to the A7 bodies.

I'm well aware of Sony stake on Olympus, but they have continuously denied sharing R&D outside medical imaging area. There already have been reports that things like how the IBIS is driven is completely different in the new Sony implementation. Anyway, having Oly ownership cannot be bad, if anything that should discourage any patent trolling between the companies.

Concerning what you name hybrid stabilisation : on Olympus cameras, you can use IBIS with legacy glass and then set the focal length manually (even while filming now). You can also mount stabilized Panasonic glass with OIS, even if the lens doesn't have a physical switch to power on the mecanism. You do it from the menu (where I think that you can choose between the two systems).

Just checked the M1 manual and it does not clearly tell everything about how the camera operates when stabilized lens is attached, but it appears to me that it cannot "share responsibilies" like Sony can (pitch and yaw by lens, rest by sensor). Oly manual only speaks about "lens OSS on/off switch being given priority".