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Thread: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Plenty of us have got the camera now and plenty of those cameras have been put through their paces. None of us is infallible but we're generally a fairly experienced crowd and we we mostly have had lots of experience of other cameras and systems.

    So what's the consensus so far, if there is one?

    I'll go first. My take is that it is a keeper, as a travel and walkabout which if treated right can produce gallery quality prints, but that though I had a quote from my dealer for him to buy my D810 system, I've decided that I need to keep it and run it in parallel.

    MKII pluses:

    * a bit more resolution (but in truth not enough to matter much to me).
    * much more 'sorted' than the MkI, especially the shutter.
    * much nicer focussing and the tracking ability is now genuinely useful, if not perfect
    * nice files and DR but actually no real improvement on the MKI (which I sold months ago because of the shutter)
    * I happen to find the lens range useful. Many disagree. QC could do with a boost but that problem is not Sony's alone
    * I have few M mount lenses left but I am not in the "huge improvement over the Mk I" camp
    * I can use a whole load of legacy glass, which is fun, flexible and cost-effective.
    * IBIS. IBIS IBIS IBIS. IBIS.
    * same old light weight and small form factor, better ergos than before. I really like shooting it.
    * I LOVE not having to AF Fine Tune my lenses.
    * Video, which I am using more and more, is way better than the D810 and in fact is so good that I have sold my A7s

    Minuses:

    * under perfect conditions and with good light you probably still get a better file from the D810, a tad less noise, better colour gradations, I suspect slightly better DR at low ISO. The Sony might be better at higher ISO but that matters less to me.
    * less pro feeling usability than the D810 and a far worse menu system

    Overall I'll use it a lot more than the D810 but for really critical stuff and the finest results, assuming I don't have to carry it far, I'll stick to the Nikon system. But then I've never quite been able to part with my IQ180 for when I need to go ultimate ultimate.

    Final thought: I spent a week shooting my new RX100 IV just before the A7RII arrived and i love, love love that camera. It will seriously bite into the use cases for the MkII, it really is that good.

    Gear slut? Moi?
    Last edited by tashley; 9th August 2015 at 16:38.
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Thanks, Tim.

    I think you answered my earlier query.

    Yeah, I am trying to sort out my funds to get a RX100 IV (The 7s stays!!).

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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post

    I'll go first. My take is that it is a keeper, as a travel and walkabout which if treated right can produce gallery quality prints, but that though I had a quote from my dealer for him to buy my D810 system, I've decided that I need to keep it and run it in parallel.
    I think this says it all..... I still have my 800e but the real problem I see with it is that Zeiss seems to be/is putting more emphasis on the E mount, maybe rightfully so, which means that DSLR lenses could go to the back burner. I don't trust Sony, even with the colaboration with Zeiss, to consistently make quality lenses..... I think you really have to get lucky. So...... I may pull the plug with some Zeiss Glass but since I'm in Lens Rental's back yard I'll probably waste some money renting it with a couple of Loxia's to put it through its paces.

    Thanks as always for your valued input......

    Victor
    Last edited by vjbelle; 10th August 2015 at 05:13.

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    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    All depends, not on the camera, buy how you use it.

    I plan on trialling it as a replacement for my MF kit. If I take the time and trouble to use it in same way, and with the same care, I have little doubt the results will be comparable.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
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    Senior Member Joe Colson's Avatar
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    With admittedly little use since it arrived on Friday, it's a keeper. The positives:

    ● IBIS - game changer for me. I'm old and I'm shaky.
    ● Ergonomics and "look and feel" - the M2 is better in my [large] hands than the a7R. The grip is...well, grippier. The buttons, especially C1, C2, C3 and Menu, are better placed, and the shutter release placement is more natural (DSLR-like). Even the matte black finish (compared to the glossy finish of the a7R) makes the camera look less like a toy. The lens mount is more "positive" and feels like it will hold a heavy lens without play. The M2 has a heft (more metallic?) that the a7R didn't have.
    ● Shutter sound and vibration are gone.
    ● AF is modestly better
    ● ISO and noise performance are modestly better

    The negatives:

    ● Lossy RAW - Sony needs to up their game and offer lossless compressed RAW
    ● AF speed and accuracy with adapted lenses
    ● No medium-to-long tele prime option. The Batis 85mm and the 90mm macro are sweet additions to the native lens lineup, but a fast Zeiss or Sony-Zeiss prime in the 135mm to 200mm range is on my "wish list"
    ● Battery life - 'nuf said.

    I'm keeping my D810. I had imagined shedding the Nikon kit entirely if the a7RM2 had ticked ALL the boxes. It hasn't (yet). Maybe over time with firmware upgrades, it will get closer.

    Joe
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    That says a lot Quentin!!!

    I am pretty much looking at this camera system as a high end light weight system for scenics. As a tester I would be a horrible example to expect information from for all the high tech bells and whistles in this body. Why? Because I bet 95% of the time it will have ibis turned off and mounted on a lightweight tripod, shot in M mode, manually focused, triggered remotely, using Singh Ray filters, and at base iso. That is what I bought it for was to use my legacy CG glass and a few OEM lenses like I did my NEX7 system. I don't care about AF speed, frame rate, ibis, multi point AF, or most of the bells and whistles for my needs and wants.

    I took it out yesterday and firmed up what I already expected......... it will do even better than my expectations when I pre ordered it!! I am happy to move forward and use it for what I bought it for. I have other cameras for other things and in fact far more than I need to keep around with this new tool in the line up.

    All the pixel level non-realworld issue I am seeing discussed or what if any other manufacturers OEM glass will AF on this body sound just like the teacher on a Peanuts cartoon to me .... "blah, blah, blah, blah" It all means nothing for my needs and wants but could be deal breakers for some.......

    My results will be my praise and flag waving and if others like it and pay well for my work then I will have all the affirmation I will ever need ... I expect that those who liked my work before will continue to like it using this tool. This is how I test a tool strictly real world print results. Any good or bad things deeper than this level is just like the 6th gallon of water running into a 5 gallon bucket from the faucet for me.
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    Senior Member Quentin_Bargate's Avatar
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Exactly so, Jim.

    On a tripod, IBIS turned off, manual all the way, most of the tech, while impressive, is utterly redundant.

    What then matters is the quality of sensor and the glass.

    The latest technology is nice to have when using for street shots, etc, but otherwise not a lot of use!
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer
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    Senior Member 4season's Avatar
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Final thought: I spent a week shooting my new RX100 IV just before the A7RII arrived and i love, love love that camera. It will seriously bite into the use cases for the MkII, it really is that good.
    Tim,

    You may have just sold me on an RX100 Mk IV! Sounds like I can safely skip the A7R Mk II, Nikon D810 and Pentax 645D/Leica S2 or whatever

    Jeff
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by 4season View Post
    Tim,

    You may have just sold me on an RX100 Mk IV! Sounds like I can safely skip the A7R Mk II, Nikon D810 and Pentax 645D/Leica S2 or whatever

    Jeff
    Not quite!

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    But I sure did take a lot of pictures with it....

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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Well I am keeping mine. I have been looking for a lighter setup than my current Nikons and have settled on Leica, as the lenses are portable.

    I never tried them on the A7r as the online samples looked horrible, but they seem more than adequate on the A7rII, which is lighter than the M240 (and so may well be on the A7r, which is even lighter). Yes there is a bit of corner smearing, but it is not nearly as intrusive as I had expected. Being able to focus the Leica lenses on what I am trying to photograph without recomposing and having IBIS are significant benefits.

    I have the Sony 55m f1.8 and 35mm f2.8, but am not attracted to any of the other available lenses: they are either as heavy as my Nikon equivalents, or seem are no better than my Leicas in practice: other than the 35mm f1.4 and 90mm f2.8 (if you get a good sample), they seem middling performers. The Batis 25mm is marginal in weight, but seems to be unavailable in the UK. I have a few NEX lenses like the 10-18mm zoom, the 24mm f1.8 and the excellent first generation Sigmas that I have yet to try.

    The 42Mpx is great and the additional dynamic range over the Leica body very welcome. Noise is great, but still quite messy even at 6400, when the famous orange peel effect is prevalent.
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    The words 'real world' crop up a bit in the above, and I think the more you dwell in that rather unusual place (for photo enthusiasts) the more the new camera suits you. The new technology is broad and deep, real world oriented and well applied in a finely balanced package that pretty much relegates the larger cameras to niche status - low ISO tripod work and the like, some events..and even then a paltry lens choice constricts the use cases further.

    For serious travel-street-culture-people-adventure (for want of a better description but definitely more real world than any studio), comparisons with any DSLR only end up going one way. IBIS, bespoke Zeiss optics, small form factors, high ISO, near a7s video capabilities..in a strong chassis and silent/EFCS shutter, mature EVF for legacy lenses.

    These are all large scale operational advances, almost all of them no one else is offering to the same extent, or even has the capability to offer - at all. You had better like what the big Nikons do for you, and even then be prepared to look very hard for the advantages they offer in the diminishing kinds of work they are better suited to do!

    For users who require a full featured, multi-faceted single system, the Sonys are getting close to being the only choice if your work is highly diversified. Sony/Zeiss are betting on the vast bulk of users wanting a balanced camera they can do just about anything with, at a very high level of performance. The low weight and small size was just the 'hook'.
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Sandy has already told me she loves it. I've yet to actually use it but like the files Sandy is getting with hers. See actually sold her A7r within a couple of hours of getting the II.

    Don
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    But I sure did take a lot of pictures with it....

    this is too damn funny!

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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Easy choice for me. The A7r2 is, for my use, a far superior platform than my D800/D4 combo.

    Locked down on a tripod, which is rare for me, Nikon has nothing better. Handheld and on the move, the Sony is simply in a different league.

    For camera bodies shooting stills, Sony is only missing a high frames per second option.

    And video?? Forget about it. The Sony goes where Nikon fears to tread.

    I have been shooting Nikons since the Nikon F. No longer.

    My Nikon gear is gone and, though not forgotten, it is part of my past.

    Is the A7r2 a keeper?

    Yeah, not just a keeper but the best camera I have ever used.

    -Bill
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Any more word on the video?
    Especially coming from the A7s with the 2 major upgrades - 4K internal & IBIS.. plus better rolling shutter in FF.

    Seeing complaints on the video forums of 20-30minutes recording leads to overheating when using internal 4K.
    This can be individual (one long shot) or cumulative over multiple shorter clips, per reports.
    I don't shoot clips longer then 3-4 minutes, but worry taking enough consecutive ~3min clips in hot, sunny weather getting it to overheat as well.

    Other minor quibbles I can deal with - slight weight gain, loss of a 1-2 stops high ISO, worse rolling shutter in APS-C mode

    The IBIS really tempts me...
    Spent 2 weeks playing with a rental gimbal (Nebula 4000 lite). Loved the smoothness of shots. Hated just about everything else - ergonomics, weight, setup time, futziness, weight limits, price.
    Will have to see how much smoother IBIS can make my simple stationary / stationary&pan type shots.
    I don't expect to walk/run with IBIS, that is what gimbals are really for...

    Trying to stay patient for A7sII I think :-D

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Plenty of us have got the camera now and plenty of those cameras have been put through their paces. None of us is infallible but we're generally a fairly experienced crowd and we we mostly have had lots of experience of other cameras and systems.

    So what's the consensus so far, if there is one?

    I'll go first. My take is that it is a keeper, as a travel and walkabout which if treated right can produce gallery quality prints, but that though I had a quote from my dealer for him to buy my D810 system, I've decided that I need to keep it and run it in parallel.

    MKII pluses:

    * a bit more resolution (but in truth not enough to matter much to me).
    * much more 'sorted' than the MkI, especially the shutter.
    * much nicer focussing and the tracking ability is now genuinely useful, if not perfect
    * nice files and DR but actually no real improvement on the MKI (which I sold months ago because of the shutter)
    * I happen to find the lens range useful. Many disagree. QC could do with a boost but that problem is not Sony's alone
    * I have few M mount lenses left but I am not in the "huge improvement over the Mk I" camp
    * I can use a whole load of legacy glass, which is fun, flexible and cost-effective.
    * IBIS. IBIS IBIS IBIS. IBIS.
    * same old light weight and small form factor, better ergos than before. I really like shooting it.
    * I LOVE not having to AF Fine Tune my lenses.
    * Video, which I am using more and more, is way better than the D810 and in fact is so good that I have sold my A7s

    Minuses:

    * under perfect conditions and with good light you probably still get a better file from the D810, a tad less noise, better colour gradations, I suspect slightly better DR at low ISO. The Sony might be better at higher ISO but that matters less to me.
    * less pro feeling usability than the D810 and a far worse menu system

    Overall I'll use it a lot more than the D810 but for really critical stuff and the finest results, assuming I don't have to carry it far, I'll stick to the Nikon system. But then I've never quite been able to part with my IQ180 for when I need to go ultimate ultimate.

    Final thought: I spent a week shooting my new RX100 IV just before the A7RII arrived and i love, love love that camera. It will seriously bite into the use cases for the MkII, it really is that good.

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    Member Paul David's Avatar
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Sandy has already told me she loves it. I've yet to actually use it but like the files Sandy is getting with hers. See actually sold her A7r within a couple of hours of getting the II.

    Don
    Hey Don,

    I'd be very interested in seeing some comparison photos to the PhaseOne back. My A7rii arrives tomorrow and I definitely plan to compare them for prints to 30x40". The new Rodie lenses are just too heavy for me in the field. As a small (Ken Doo size) guy carrying a surface pro with the Alpa in a backpack isn't terribly appealing. The dynamic range as compared to MF is really going to be the key.

    Paul
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Yes but I need review space to answer it properly. I also need a bit more time. I'm going slow on this one
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul David View Post
    Hey Don,

    I'd be very interested in seeing some comparison photos to the PhaseOne back. My A7rii arrives tomorrow and I definitely plan to compare them for prints to 30x40". The new Rodie lenses are just too heavy for me in the field. As a small (Ken Doo size) guy carrying a surface pro with the Alpa in a backpack isn't terribly appealing. The dynamic range as compared to MF is really going to be the key.

    Paul
    Paul, I'll see what I can do however I really don't like the thought of trying to compare a 42-megapixel 35mm camera to a 80-megapixel medium format; likewise totally different sensors. That said, I'm sure the II can hold it's own in the 35mm world. Also, I've never liked the idea of trying to compare what I feel are 2-totally separate systems.

    We're in Sedona currently and will in all likelihood shoot similar things which in that case I'll share. I'm currently more concerned with getting enough info to post a blog on just how well the XF handles then if I can pry the camera out of Sandys hands I do something with the II.

    Ramblings as it's late and I'm tired..............
    Don Libby
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Please, please do it.
    Eduardo


    Quote Originally Posted by Paul David View Post
    Hey Don,

    I'd be very interested in seeing some comparison photos to the PhaseOne back. My A7rii arrives tomorrow and I definitely plan to compare them for prints to 30x40". The new Rodie lenses are just too heavy for me in the field. As a small (Ken Doo size) guy carrying a surface pro with the Alpa in a backpack isn't terribly appealing. The dynamic range as compared to MF is really going to be the key.

    Paul

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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Yes but I need review space to answer it properly. I also need a bit more time. I'm going slow on this one

    Guy I am sure you are following those "artifact" issues being discussed with a7rII's and pushing the darks up 4-5 stops under very specific light/subject conditions and the hot pixel/noise issues also being discussed on long exposures.

    Now I am no brainiac and as stated before some of these issues and discussions have so little importances to the effects of my needs and wants they tend to sound like the teacher in a Peanuts cartoon. But, I put this out to you and the rest here...... Lets forget just how over the top the exposure settings have to be for these objections occur but being as there is documented differences on how obvious or not these issues are with various PP softwares could these possibly be PP software issues and not the camera's?

    If you read the posts of some they seem to want to rattle the tree's to possibly force Sony to lower the MSRP more than determining if the problem is a real issue to final output or one that needs Sony to correct or who the source of the problem is? Makes one wonder their true objectives.... and whether they have a agenda.

    I have not seen a hot pixel issue personally yet with long exposures so I don't have much to say about it but the artifact issue when pushing the blacks up 4-5 stops all I can say is really???? In what/who's world is that a real issue as I have always felt that as a photographer we have a obligation to at least get our exposures close. If one wants HDR shoot the shot that way with multiple exposures and stack them.

    Mark my words the so called professional reviewer's are listening and reading these absurd complaints (whose parameters to observe them are so ridiculous no good photographer would ever intentionally encumber himself with them in a proper shot he took) and depending on their hidden agenda's will dissect these issues to the nth degree and malign this body like they are issues that every photo you shoot with this body you just can't avoid them. One can see the writing on the wall already and with the pre volume hype of letting other manufacturers glass function as well or better on this body than their own has brought forward over critical evaluations from people who are based in the other camps who worry this just might happen one day.

    Sad to see this happen yet again.....good ole agenda driven misinformation and the sky is falling; mentalities.
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    Senior Member Chris Giles's Avatar
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    I'm not a a7rii owner but I did managed to square off the images from a wedding I shot with the second shooter who runs the whole A7 series.

    The IBIS, flip screen and silent shutter are cool but silent shutter means shooting it 12 bit. Further to this the images from the sensor were not as exciting as I expected, above ISO3200 images are quite noisy and noisier than my Canon 5DSr. The images themselves across the ISO ranges are ok, but missing something, like a smear of flatness across the image compared to what I'm used to.

    Certainly, the comparisons between the 645z and the rii that were happening have been decisively answered and I was considering getting the Sony up until I tried it out last week.
    Chris Giles Photography
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Though at heart a Leica M shooter I consider the A7rII a keeper. A camera I rather respect than really (Leica-)like. As a versatile tool it is a significant step up from the A7r which was more of a niche solution, an excellent sensor held back by a not so perfect shutter and housing (lens mount, ergonomics). I guess I will sell all of my Leica M gear, maybe except for the M9 and two M lenses for nostalgia`s sake. The A7rII and the new e-mount lenses tick more of the boxes currently relevant to me than any other system.

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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post

    If you read the posts of some they seem to want to rattle the tree's to possibly force Sony to lower the MSRP more than determining if the problem is a real issue to final output or one that needs Sony to correct or who the source of the problem is? Makes one wonder their true objectives.... and whether they have a agenda.
    Jim, Who are they and where do they post? I would like to contact them to form a club. Sort of like a "groupon".
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    For me it is a keeper and I feel that in many ways the the camera has come to maturity compared to the first models. While I would prefer it to have the more analogue controls of my Leica Q I know that it just won't happen so I can work around that. In reality this camera with the FE55 and maybe a super wide like the CV15 mkIII plus my Q would be all I would ever need!! Though I'm still keeping that A7s for the moment and my leica glass and wait to see what leica come up with this autumn. On the whole a general Steve Huff "Wow, Awesome, Wow"

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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    For me it's a keeper simply because I needed something to replace my (stolen) A7R ...
    But I can say these 'small' improvements I really like:
    - lovely shutter sound
    - no shutter shock
    - better positioned release button

    YMMV
    Bart ...
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    For me it's a keeper simply because I needed something to replace my (stolen) A7R ...
    But I can say these 'small' improvements I really like:
    - lovely shutter sound
    - no shutter shock
    - better positioned release button

    YMMV
    Congratulations Bart!
    This maybe of interest, especially the APO-R 280/4 shutter shock measurements on A7R and A7RII by Jim Kasson.

    http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3885234
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    So the overwhelming view is - KEEPER!..... and for very good reasons.
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    Guy I am sure you are following those "artifact" issues being discussed with a7rII's and pushing the darks up 4-5 stops under very specific light/subject conditions and the hot pixel/noise issues also being discussed on long exposures.

    Now I am no brainiac and as stated before some of these issues and discussions have so little importances to the effects of my needs and wants they tend to sound like the teacher in a Peanuts cartoon. But, I put this out to you and the rest here...... Lets forget just how over the top the exposure settings have to be for these objections occur but being as there is documented differences on how obvious or not these issues are with various PP softwares could these possibly be PP software issues and not the camera's?

    If you read the posts of some they seem to want to rattle the tree's to possibly force Sony to lower the MSRP more than determining if the problem is a real issue to final output or one that needs Sony to correct or who the source of the problem is? Makes one wonder their true objectives.... and whether they have a agenda.

    I have not seen a hot pixel issue personally yet with long exposures so I don't have much to say about it but the artifact issue when pushing the blacks up 4-5 stops all I can say is really???? In what/who's world is that a real issue as I have always felt that as a photographer we have a obligation to at least get our exposures close. If one wants HDR shoot the shot that way with multiple exposures and stack them.

    Mark my words the so called professional reviewer's are listening and reading these absurd complaints (whose parameters to observe them are so ridiculous no good photographer would ever intentionally encumber himself with them in a proper shot he took) and depending on their hidden agenda's will dissect these issues to the nth degree and malign this body like they are issues that every photo you shoot with this body you just can't avoid them. One can see the writing on the wall already and with the pre volume hype of letting other manufacturers glass function as well or better on this body than their own has brought forward over critical evaluations from people who are based in the other camps who worry this just might happen one day.

    Sad to see this happen yet again.....good ole agenda driven misinformation and the sky is falling; mentalities.
    I'm with you on this actually. Most of it is complete nonsense in situations I'll just never be in. Hell Jim I don't even bracket. I still scratch my head over that one. I never do HDR or anything like it either. My areas are high ISO to about 6400 max ever and actually far less. Another area is I really rather not buy Canon lenses so that whole thing is a non issue. I bought Sony want to use Sony lenses or some manual lenses. The lenses I did buy the Batis pair and 35 1.4 I dare anyone to touch them. There very very good. I'm really happy so far. I got exactly what I though I was going to get. Heck I sold my A7r 2 months ago and the A7II 2 weeks ago. I knew exactly what I was getting without real risk.i really don't have a bitch area but I do struggle with all the whining on stuff that in a real photographers heart just don't exist for real world shooting. I'm also a big work around person. I'm not after the perfect camera just the perfect image.
    So a lot of stuff I am ignoring and the other big one is cost. I do NOT feel it's over priced or anything like that. Way too many I paid X I should get this comments. Go buy MFi should be getting free Las Vegas nights with all the trimmings for those costs. Lol

    I am reading this thread with interest and have to say the members here are really the bright spots on the whole package here. You guys get it
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    One are not talked about is the shutter sound. Frankly I'll probably never use silent shutter nice to have it but the normal sound is like ice cream to me smooth and my ears don't hurt. The camera is very responsive and the AF is so much better and accurate. I have a bunch to talk about here. I have tried every setting in AF and I got a ton of keepers.


    Actually the only thing I am extremely disappointed in is the people doing some of these blogs, opinions , you tube ****. I never seen such puss poor information in my life and as a reviewer tester type person. I'm freaking embarrassed to even call myself that. A very serious amount of bad info being thrown around for the love of money and popularity that folks are getting really bad data. I mean piss poor stuff. Flame suit on and I can really give a **** what they think I just said. This is not how you inform people correctly. So I'm being a little quiet for right now.

    That's no reflection of anyone here. You folks are killing it with great data.
    Last edited by Guy Mancuso; 10th August 2015 at 03:14.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    No interest here either in that 'silent shutter' option as the A7R2's shutter sound is already truly civilized !
    In fact it's pretty addictive ...
    Bart ...
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    One are not talked about is the shutter sound. Frankly I'll probably never use silent shutter nice to have it but the normal sound is like ice cream to me smooth and my ears don't hurt. The camera is very responsive and the AF is so much better and accurate. I have a bunch to talk about here. I have tried every setting in AF and I got a ton of keepers.


    Actually the only thing I am extremely disappointed in is the people doing some of these blogs, opinions , you tube ****. I never seen such puss poor information in my life and as a reviewer tester type person. I'm freaking embarrassed to even call myself that. A very serious amount of bad info being thrown around for the love of money and popularity that folks are getting really bad data. I mean piss poor stuff. Flame suit on and I can really give a **** what they think I just said. This is not how you inform people correctly. So I'm being a little quiet for right now.

    That's no reflection of anyone here. You folks are killing it with great data.
    There's an SEO land grab going on right now. Even in my limited circles people who never do reviews are doing them to get web traffic.
    Chris Giles Photography
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Giles View Post
    There's an SEO land grab going on right now. Even in my limited circles people who never do reviews are doing them to get web traffic.
    Yea something is going on and it's really bad.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Yeah my jetties and seascapes have never been annoyed by a shutter sound vibration maybe but never the sound

    I agree the a7rII standard shutter sound is addicting.... They nailed that issue!

    Guy I am waiting to see someone on the other sites complain that if they drop a a7rII it actually hits the ground and doesn't hover over it till you grab it This is about as absurd as the artifact issue in real world use by people who consider themselves photographers. In a way, the ones (because of this bizzarr complaint) who now are eliminating this new body from consideration because of this I am almost glad they are. Without a doubt those are the people who thrive on negatives and complaints no matter what the realities are. Think everyone who uses Sony is better off without them cluttering up the forums with the sky is falling type issues ... I know I will be happier ... Let them bring cloud cover to some other manufacturers bluebird days
    Last edited by Jim DE; 10th August 2015 at 04:22.
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    One are not talked about is the shutter sound. Frankly I'll probably never use silent shutter nice to have it but the normal sound is like ice cream to me smooth and my ears don't hurt. The camera is very responsive and the AF is so much better and accurate. I have a bunch to talk about here. I have tried every setting in AF and I got a ton of keepers.
    This summarizes my impression of the camera. AF smokes the one in the older A7R or A6000 pretty much hands down (A7R II af murders A6000 as light levels start to fall). No "false positives", if the AF says lock, the image is in focus. With my A6000 I'm sometimes baffled why I get a significantly OOF shot regardless of camera locking. Even LA-EA3 + 70-400 SSM2 + Kenko Pro 300 1.4x TC focused ok (I think this should not even work at all) in rather dimly lit indoor light. TC goofs the IBIS though, due to camera not "seeing" the multiplied focal lengths.

    Overall responsiveness is way better than in the sluggish old A7R. Shutter is awesome, sounds like silenced MP5 submachine gun in the movies. Shutter is fast too, no issues with TTL preflash and missing the moment/expression or getting slightly OOF shot due to ~0,3 sec shutter lag; had a a pile of that with A7R. AF-C with Eye-Af feels magic in decent light.

    IBIS. What can I say, I get 1:1 vievable pixel sharp images with FE 55 at 1/4 shutter speed. And stabilized 12.5x magnification for manual focusing for Zeiss ZE APO 135/2 if just superb, even if it is just 3-Axis.

    Did a huge amount of research beforehand so I knew what to expect and yet the camera has surprized me positively.
    Last edited by tn1krr; 10th August 2015 at 05:20.
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    One are not talked about is the shutter sound. Frankly I'll probably never use silent shutter nice to have it but the normal sound is like ice cream to me smooth and my ears don't hurt. The camera is very responsive and the AF is so much better and accurate. I have a bunch to talk about here. I have tried every setting in AF and I got a ton of keepers.
    Guy, I am not an autofocus kind of guy. My camera normally sits on tripod and is manually focused or I will use one button autofocus. However, I am taking the A7RII to Africa and I am curious about the autofocus settings you would recommend for "moving objects" like animals in the wild. I won't try to shoot cheetah running at full bore, but I also don't expect to get the animals to sit and pose. [G]

    Thanks.

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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    I want another one

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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Scratched the rear screen in the first 12 hours of owning the camera. Are you freaking kidding me!

    So it's a keeper.

    All kidding aside, I bought the A7r, went through multiple copies of the 35 2.8 to get one that's right (and honestly, I'm not a difficult customer)' also had the 55 1.8 and a couple of adapted lenses. Little things drove me away and the shutter clunk and limited lens lineup were the biggies, image quality was always outstanding. My big complaints have been resolved so I'm taking a second go at it.

    I'm also using a Fuji xt1 (in the small camera category) and much as I love it, the full frame Sony sensor is worlds ahead---if that matters to you. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't...

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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    Guy, I am not an autofocus kind of guy. My camera normally sits on tripod and is manually focused or I will use one button autofocus. However, I am taking the A7RII to Africa and I am curious about the autofocus settings you would recommend for "moving objects" like animals in the wild. I won't try to shoot cheetah running at full bore, but I also don't expect to get the animals to sit and pose. [G]

    Thanks.
    Howard I would first start at APC with a low continuous shooting mode. You can try two settings that I think would work good with a single animal on the move. You can go focus area and use Wide which you have to get the AF point on the animal than just keep tracking them across the frame. In wide the downfall is if it don't start on the animal, so you may have to release and try again. The other setting is the expanded flexible spot which you can zero on the animals face and it will track them across the frame as well. Trick is nailing the animal on the start and keeping that half press on all the time . I have more faith in the low continuous than I do in the high mode. Native lenses obviously will be best. I think you where renting the 70-300 which sounds like a good lens for this .
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by fmueller View Post
    Scratched the rear screen in the first 12 hours of owning the camera. Are you freaking kidding me!

    So it's a keeper.

    All kidding aside, I bought the A7r, went through multiple copies of the 35 2.8 to get one that's right (and honestly, I'm not a difficult customer)' also had the 55 1.8 and a couple of adapted lenses. Little things drove me away and the shutter clunk and limited lens lineup were the biggies, image quality was always outstanding. My big complaints have been resolved so I'm taking a second go at it.

    I'm also using a Fuji xt1 (in the small camera category) and much as I love it, the full frame Sony sensor is worlds ahead---if that matters to you. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't...
    That's the big one is if you came from the A7r than this is a huge upgrade for you because of all the little quirks are all fixed now plus we gained a lot of good features. Overall operationally it's a world of difference. Let's face facts we where beta testers on the A7r which is fine they followed it up with a solid upgrade. Now we got something useful in our hands.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Viramati View Post
    I want another one
    Lol so do I .
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Would anyone expect any FW update for the A7rII and if so what is expected?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    That's the big one is if you came from the A7r than this is a huge upgrade for you because of all the little quirks are all fixed now plus we gained a lot of good features. Overall operationally it's a world of difference. Let's face facts we where beta testers on the A7r which is fine they followed it up with a solid upgrade. Now we got something useful in our hands.
    Guy, Is the plastic mount changed from A7r to the R2?

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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    I'm expecting the lossy compression update. They did say they are working on it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Congratulations Bart!
    This maybe of interest, especially the APO-R 280/4 shutter shock measurements on A7R and A7RII by Jim Kasson.

    http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3885234
    Thank you, Karl-Heinz ! And thanks for that link !

    The grey curve is the a7RII with EFCS on. It looks pretty darned good.
    Apparently, I operate in the default EFCS:ON mode ...

    Kind regards.
    Bart ...
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Would anyone expect any FW update for the A7rII and if so what is expected?
    With already so many sticky A7R2 threads around: let's start another one for (near) future firmware enhancement requests ...
    Bart ...
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    With already so many sticky A7R2 threads around: let's start another one for (near) future firmware enhancement requests ...
    I admit that it is kind of unusual to see the Sony forum lit up with stickies.
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by tn1krr View Post
    This summarizes my impression of the camera. AF smokes the one in the older A7R or A6000 pretty much hands down (A7R II af murders A6000 as light levels start to fall). No "false positives", if the AF says lock, the image is in focus. With my A6000 I'm sometimes baffled why I get a significantly OOF shot regardless of camera locking. Even LA-EA3 + 70-400 SSM2 + Kenko Pro 300 1.4x TC focused ok (I think this should not even work at all) in rather dimly lit indoor light. TC goofs the IBIS though, due to camera not "seeing" the multiplied focal lengths.

    Overall responsiveness is way better than in the sluggish old A7R. Shutter is awesome, sounds like silenced MP5 submachine gun in the movies. Shutter is fast too, no issues with TTL preflash and missing the moment/expression or getting slightly OOF shot due to ~0,3 sec shutter lag; had a a pile of that with A7R. AF-C with Eye-Af feels magic in decent light.

    IBIS. What can I say, I get 1:1 vievable pixel sharp images with FE 55 at 1/4 shutter speed. And stabilized 12.5x magnification for manual focusing for Zeiss ZE APO 135/2 if just superb, even if it is just 3-Axis.

    Did a huge amount of research beforehand so I knew what to expect and yet the camera has surprized me positively.

    I love hearing about you doing your homework. How many times have I said that on this forum. Great stuff
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I admit that it is kind of unusual to see the Sony forum lit up with stickies.
    Well part of that was me I admit but having those data threads on diffrent branded lenses will be very handy for folks.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post

    * under perfect conditions and with good light you probably still get a better file from the D810, a tad less noise, better colour gradations, I suspect slightly better DR at low ISO.
    Tim, I'd appreciate if you could elaborate more on this comment, specifically as re color gradations. IME, I have found that more pixels generally translates into smoother color and tonality, regardless of system. I am wondering if it is due to:

    1) pixels being so small they are getting diffraction skew to their color or;

    2) it has something to do with lens resolutions not being up to the pixel pitch itself, and thus color data is getting "blurred?"

    On the second point, I am not specifically singling out Sony glass as I have serious doubts *most* (if not all) current lenses will have issues past the 40MP point, including my best and latest Nikon G lenses.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  50. #50
    Senior Member Chris Giles's Avatar
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    Re: So, is it a keeper? (A7R II)

    At some point I'll do a proper overview on the A7rii but so far this is all the discussion about it has resulted in:

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