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Thread: Sony "RAWPeg"

  1. #1
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Senior Member Joe Colson's Avatar
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    Re: Sony "RAWPeg"

    Indeed an interesting read, and DPReview has been persistent in their criticism of Sony for not having a lossless RAW option with the a7RII. While I'm disappointed (OK, maybe a little bit pissed off) that Sony didn't fully embrace what has become a de facto standard for serious RAW shooting (i.e., lossless compressed RAW), I've reached the point where I'm at peace with the camera. These two quotes from the article are significant for me:

    "It's quite possible to shoot for years and never notice the impact of these design choices Sony has made..."

    "Overall, the effects of this compression aren't often visually significant. Their impact should mostly be understood as a reduction in processing latitude, since it tends only to be when you push and pull the Raw files that the missing data becomes visible."

    In my photography, I'm not likely to see the downside of Sony's lossy compression, either in large (20x30") prints or on my calibrated 30" monitor. And the other compelling reasons for loving this little camera - 42MP, IBIS, EVF and Live View MF focusing ease, snappy AF, Eye AF, ergonomics that fit my hand, exceptional DR, low noise at high ISO, adaptability for non-native lenses... - have resulted in my now mostly ignoring the Lloyd Chambers rants and DPR articles on lossy RAW.

    Take photographs. Capture memories. Have fun.

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    Re: Sony "RAWPeg"

    Creative title.

    I am also at peace like Joe. I have decided not to buy anymore Sony FF cameras.
    Lots of NEXs and A7 cams to keep me busy for quite sometime.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sony "RAWPeg"

    I knew this buying into the A7r. Totally at peace with it. Never ran into the issues myself. People are at this point just using it as a argument against Sony. In the meantime I'm making art and money. Thank you very much

    Would I like to have it . No question but it's not going to stop me from buying and shooting
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sony "RAWPeg"

    Sitting here in San Diego with my grandson shooting eye AF. Holy cow this works great.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: Sony "RAWPeg"

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Sitting here in San Diego with my grandson shooting eye AF. Holy cow this works great.

    Eye AF nailed this one:


    _DSC3846 by Amin Sabet, on Flickr
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    Re: Sony "RAWPeg"

    Huh ?! Are we really at peace ?
    I for one am dying to know whether this lossy compression can be cured by firmware say next month or that we have to wait say another 5 months for the next iteration ...
    In the meanwhile I'll be happily shooting every single artefact that happens to come in front of my lens.

    Bart ...

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    Re: Sony "RAWPeg"

    Would you be unhappy if there is no FW update or it is included in an A7RIII?

    (FWIW, I waited for a FW update for the A7R -EFCS- never happened.)

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    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: Sony "RAWPeg"

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Would you be unhappy if there is no FW update or it is included in an A7RIII?

    (FWIW, I waited for a FW update for the A7R -EFCS- never happened.)

    I would not be upset if there is no fw update and it is included in an A7RIII or A9. In fact, that's exactly what I expected to happen, though with all this attention Sony may have to do otherwise.

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    Re: Sony "RAWPeg"

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    .. though with all this attention Sony may have to do otherwise.
    I hope so.
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    Re: Sony "RAWPeg"

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Sitting here in San Diego with my grandson shooting eye AF. Holy cow this works great.
    Guy, your tip on configuring AF-ON and Eye-AF to the two positions on the AF/MF/AEL-switched button was exactly what I was looking for. I adopted that immediately and find it perfectly intuitive. So please accept some ...
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sony "RAWPeg"

    Thanks here is the really cool part. So let's say your in low continoius, AFC mode on wide area setting. You switch to AEL button down. Push in center button you go into eye AF. Now say your subject turns its head you lose eye AF because it can see it. Just let go of center button than camera immediately goes to normal AFC wide area and you still picking up subject let's say back of head in this case. You simply can't miss if you know when to switch out . It's so intuitive this way.

    Just so folks know I made that AEL switch button to eye AF in my custom mode so switch down than use center push button to engage eye AF. You have to continuously hold that button to AF with your thumb but using your index you can shoot away. Very nice setup
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Sony "RAWPeg"

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Would you be unhappy if there is no FW update or it is included in an A7RIII?

    (FWIW, I waited for a FW update for the A7R -EFCS- never happened.)
    Crikey Vivek, if there is no firmware update I'd be more than unhappy ...

    But seriously, I'm hoping for some kind of explanation from Sony whether it can be mended in firmware or that more horsepower is required.

    Kind regards.
    Bart ...

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    Re: Sony "RAWPeg"

    Did the exact same thing (though independently) and its freakin' awesome. I love working this way and its something I miss when I go to my SLR-based bodies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Thanks here is the really cool part. So let's say your in low continoius, AFC mode on wide area setting. You switch to AEL button down. Push in center button you go into eye AF. Now say your subject turns its head you lose eye AF because it can see it. Just let go of center button than camera immediately goes to normal AFC wide area and you still picking up subject let's say back of head in this case. You simply can't miss if you know when to switch out . It's so intuitive this way.

    Just so folks know I made that AEL switch button to eye AF in my custom mode so switch down than use center push button to engage eye AF. You have to continuously hold that button to AF with your thumb but using your index you can shoot away. Very nice setup

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    Re: Sony "RAWPeg"

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Crikey Vivek, if there is no firmware update I'd be more than unhappy ...

    But seriously, I'm hoping for some kind of explanation from Sony whether it can be mended in firmware or that more horsepower is required.

    Kind regards.
    Since all the descriptions of the lossy compression describe it as applying to pixel data based on the luminance value of the pixel it has to be software driven rather than hardware driven. There is no way for the hardware to know what the luminance value will be for a given pixel in a given image. Even the pixel stripping, as described, depends on the luminous values of the pixels to generate the ramp.

    This is not to say that Sony won't put it off for a new piece of hardware.
    If they do, it is, in my view, quite arrogant of them as a company.

    In the mean time I am happily shooting away with my A7RII. It sounds like the problems tend to raise their head at the extremes. Most often when I shoot I use bracketing mode, to give me the option of merging multiple images using the Lightroom HDR merge feature to get a 32 bit floating point file for Lightroom and CC to work on. When its an extreme situation were bracketing isn't possible, then I will have to accept the consequences. (Rare to be sure)

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    Re: Sony "RAWPeg"

    I really liked the way the DPR article was written. It highlighted the issue, didn't blow it out of proportion or try to pretend it doesn't exist. I do hope that Sony addresses this in a firmware update but I'm not optimistic. I bought the camera without an expectation of this being resolved which is I think the best way to go in these situations (decide at the time whether the tool works for you not based on some hope of a future update). I'm not optimistic that this will be addressed in a firmware update because I suspect this compression is ingrained pretty deeply in their imaging pipeline and may require an ASIC rev. Lets keep in mind that behind the faceless company that is Sony are real people who are passionate about building tools people love using. I suspect if this was a trivial firmware change, they would have done it already.
    Aravind
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