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Thread: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    Quote Originally Posted by gsking View Post

    We all know all "pros" want 100% VF and HATE pop-up flash. Right? That's all we hear at least. And it's us advanced amateurs who want the flash, and couldn't care less about the outer 2-5% of the frame.

    Greg
    I thought the "pros" came to acknowledge that the pop up flash on the D700 wasn't useless (and actually a reasonable feature) because it allowed you to use it as a commander and saved either using a commander unit or investing in an extra flash.

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Both the D300 and the K7 have 100% viewfinders and pop-up flashes. The 100% viewfinder is much larger than a 98% one. The challenge is the precission.

    Here's the link to the A550 noise samples compared to A700, A900 and Minolta 7D:

    http://www.artaphot.ch/dslrs/201-jpg...0-and-dynax-7d

    and some more samples:

    http://www.lenstip.com/1753-news-Son...le_images.html
    Man, I wish these people would STOP testing high ISO performance outdoors in good light. It's basically useless information.
    Last edited by fotografz; 30th August 2009 at 16:29.

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    I totally agree. Get someone to shoot Swan Lake Act II and then post the results!
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I thought the "pros" came to acknowledge that the pop up flash on the D700 wasn't useless (and actually a reasonable feature) because it allowed you to use it as a commander and saved either using a commander unit or investing in an extra flash.
    Hmm...I hope so, but I hadn't noticed. All the idiots I seem to read on the forums (OTHER forums, I guess. ) seem to still think only neophytes need a pop-up flash. They can all afford an extra shoe flash, and carry it around incessantly...laughing at those of us who don't.

    And of course it's ironic that Minolta reportedly got laughed at for putting one on the 9, so Sony decided to take it off their comparable model, lest they get laughed at again.

    So, if your statement is true, and the trendy hordes have finally come full circle in their thinking, let's hope Sony gets back to the future sooner rather than later.

    It's bad enough hearing some wanna-be on a forum spout rhetoric about "looking like a pro" and showing off his flashless camera...but I swear, if I ever hear anyone say that in real life...I'm probably throwing punches.

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    I totally agree. Get someone to shoot Swan Lake Act II and then post the results!
    I volunteer!... although I don't know of anybody with an upcoming production. Settle for "Paquita"?

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    I have Nutcracker in December. I am posting the Grand Ballet Gala (Les Sylphides, Prima Donna, Autumn and Coppelia Act III) right now. Should be done by 1 AM.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    Quote Originally Posted by gsking View Post
    Hmm...I hope so, but I hadn't noticed. All the idiots I seem to read on the forums (OTHER forums, I guess. ) seem to still think only neophytes need a pop-up flash. They can all afford an extra shoe flash, and carry it around incessantly...laughing at those of us who don't.

    And of course it's ironic that Minolta reportedly got laughed at for putting one on the 9, so Sony decided to take it off their comparable model, lest they get laughed at again.

    So, if your statement is true, and the trendy hordes have finally come full circle in their thinking, let's hope Sony gets back to the future sooner rather than later.

    It's bad enough hearing some wanna-be on a forum spout rhetoric about "looking like a pro" and showing off his flashless camera...but I swear, if I ever hear anyone say that in real life...I'm probably throwing punches.
    Just slap a Gary Fong Puffer on your popup flash and you will not tarnish your "pro" status. Get a lot oohhs and aaahhs that way.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    Quote Originally Posted by etrigan63 View Post
    Just slap a Gary Fong Puffer on your popup flash and you will not tarnish your "pro" status. Get a lot oohhs and aaahhs that way.
    Ha ha, excellent.

    I think the biggest irony is that I use flashes more for daytime than nighttime. Most people don't get this. Also means I don't need any of my diffusers...no shadows to worry about.

    Of course, it requires more flash power, and it makes a high sync speed that much more valuable. Would love to see the 1/300 shutter come back.

    Guess we'll have to find a way to slap a digital back on a Maxxum 9, eh?

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    Not Sony pictures, but Sony has to be able to exceed this kind of performance for me to consider them:





    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Man, I wish these people would STOP testing high ISO performance outdoors in good light. It's basically useless information.
    Yep low light and tungsten WB that's where the challenge is. Blue channel gets amplified about 2 stops.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    I hate to be the lone voice of decent here, but I prefer the add on F20 option to the built in flash option. The Maxxum 9 had a great VF, but it didn't have to deal with Steady shot, and I can't imagine how big the A900's prism housing would have bee if a built-in flash was present. Heck, even Nikon claims they couldn't use a dust shaker with the D3x because of the 100% VF. Granted, I'm a natural light or strobe kinda guy, without a lot of speedlight use going on, so I can understand that Im in the minority.



    Quote Originally Posted by gsking View Post
    Hmm...I hope so, but I hadn't noticed. All the idiots I seem to read on the forums (OTHER forums, I guess. ) seem to still think only neophytes need a pop-up flash. They can all afford an extra shoe flash, and carry it around incessantly...laughing at those of us who don't.

    And of course it's ironic that Minolta reportedly got laughed at for putting one on the 9, so Sony decided to take it off their comparable model, lest they get laughed at again.

    So, if your statement is true, and the trendy hordes have finally come full circle in their thinking, let's hope Sony gets back to the future sooner rather than later.

    It's bad enough hearing some wanna-be on a forum spout rhetoric about "looking like a pro" and showing off his flashless camera...but I swear, if I ever hear anyone say that in real life...I'm probably throwing punches.

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    I hate to be the lone voice of decent here, but I prefer the add on F20 option to the built in flash option. The Maxxum 9 had a great VF, but it didn't have to deal with Steady shot, and I can't imagine how big the A900's prism housing would have bee if a built-in flash was present. Heck, even Nikon claims they couldn't use a dust shaker with the D3x because of the 100% VF. Granted, I'm a natural light or strobe kinda guy, without a lot of speedlight use going on, so I can understand that Im in the minority.
    Douglas,

    At least you're acknowledging the reason...you prefer the 100% VF to the flash. That's defensible. Being trendy isn't.

    I agree with your logic regarding the technical trade-off, although for the life of me I can't see the importance of 100% VF. With 24mp, I'm sure I could crop a few million off and not even notice.

    In any case, it just goes back to my point that it would make sense as an "either/or", with the lower-price (and probably lower MP) camera going with the flash. Putting both features on there, as you noted, with SS would be prohibitively expensive.

    Hmm, I wonder if someday they'll have OLED onboard flashes with 50+ GN. It could happen.

    Greg

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    Good point about the VF, and that's why I'm sure I'm in the minority. I don't think I've ever even used my onboard flash with my other cameras, except to test it. An OLED flash sounds pretty cool

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    Douglas, I'm totally with you on this one. I loved the 100% finder on the 1Ds series and the one on the A900 is even better. I don't care for built-in flash and the tiny F20 is an excellent substitute.
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    Unhappy Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    I'm gonna go ahead and say that the difference that IR is seeing in the A850 and A900 IQ is more than likely attributed to sample variation and IR's less than perfect testing setups, rather than any real difference between the cameras.
    IR's testing methods are not fully scientific either. A while back, when they were reporting on the A900's card speed writing performance, they actually did the test with Sandisk Extreme III cards (30MB/Sec max read/write speed).

    As we know, the A900 can write to the card faster than any other dSLR on the planet (regardless of pricepoint) and can fully leverage the high speed of a 300x card and thus they were under-equipping the camera with a slow card that was below the capabilities of the camera......when doing a card-write-speed test ! Obviously, such tests are not very confidence inspiring.
    A900 with a few lenses, flashes etc.

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    Quote Originally Posted by gsking View Post
    Hmm...I hope so, but I hadn't noticed. All the idiots I seem to read on the forums (OTHER forums, I guess. ) seem to still think only neophytes need a pop-up flash. They can all afford an extra shoe flash, and carry it around incessantly...laughing at those of us who don't.
    :
    I agree that it was a mistake for Sony to introduce the A900 without the built-in flash. Having the 100% viewfinder was no excuse for not including a built-in flash. I am assuming their decision was based on the lack of flash in the rest of the Full-frames in existence in the market at the time of the A900's introduction - and then the Nikon D700 bucked the trend with a built-in.

    However, after recently getting the F20AM, I am now fully satisfied, since it is small enough and flat enough (can fit into a front shirt pocket) and light enough (90gms) to be left on the camera - all the time - just like a built-in flash. The only time I take it off is when I need to travel with the camera, at which time I just slide it out of the hotshoe (takes 1 extra second) and put it back on (one more extra second to slide it back into the hotshoe) when I get to my destination. I am okay with the compromise, since the advantage is that the F20AM also has bounce capability that a regular built-in does not have, in addition to not drawing out power from the camera.

    Obviously, if it had additional ratio control that would have been an additional plus but I am happy as-is with what the F20AM is providing me, which is to enable fill-flash when needed and trigger off my F58AMs when needed (without ratio control).
    A900 with a few lenses, flashes etc.

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    It's her. I saw the A850 in the shop today. Price in Bangkok: 69,900 baht or $2,000, inclusive 7% VAT, exactly the same as the Nikon D300s. Very tempting, but I have no Sony lenses

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    It's her. I saw the A850 in the shop today. Price in Bangkok: 69,900 baht or $2,000, inclusive 7% VAT, exactly the same as the Nikon D300s. Very tempting, but I have no Sony lenses
    Jorgen,

    Someone at DPR bought it from the Emporium branch for 69,900 baht and received a free F20AM (worth about 4500 baht as I bought it 2 weeks ago), a free bag and extra battery, a free 4GB memory card, and 60$ worth of points that you can deduct from your next purchase. This is like getting 250-300$ discount. What are you waiting for?
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    Jorgen,

    Someone at DPR bought it from the Emporium branch for 69,900 baht and received a free F20AM (worth about 4500 baht as I bought it 2 weeks ago), a free bag and extra battery, a free 4GB memory card, and 60$ worth of points that you can deduct from your next purchase. This is like getting 250-300$ discount. What are you waiting for?
    I spent the entire morning today at the Revenue Office. Need I say more? If you see someone in Bangkok with a Kodak Instamatic and only one flash left on the cube, it's me

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    Just got mine, understand an A1000 will be in a near future and current A900's price is still 1K above that of A850..
    24-70CZ is on her way

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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    Congratulations Mark! Hope to see the photos soon
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    Re: Just in case you haven't noticed: A850

    I will. Just missed one wedding when I wasn't decided yet. I also need to add more members to join my alpha mount collections.

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