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Popflash Photo and Fuji cameras (Beware of restocking fees)

jdphoto

Well-known member
I've used Popflash Photo many times in the past and prefer their more personal touch. I've purchased many Leica and Fuji digital cameras in the past and do recommend them. But I was somewhat surprised by a re-stocking fee applied to the Fuji XH1 we ordered, but returned. No more than 40 pics can be taken for a returned item to be considered, but with Fuji cameras they put a seal on the bag that once it's opened, it's not new and thus, a restocking fee! I had taken only 4 pics and 3 of those were unintentional because of the extremely sensitive shutter. I knew this camera was going back as soon as we opened it. I prefer the size and weight of the XT2 models, so back in the bag in pristine, new cond. I understand why this applies and am not arguing the fact that this is not considered new anymore, but Leica does not seal their cameras, but does seal the box, so this would apply to new Leica cameras too. Popflash doesn't specifically state Fuji/Leica's sealed stickers in its return policy, so beware when ordering Fuji/Leica cameras if there's a chance you might not like it. Demo a Fuji/Leica camera at a local shop and decide if it's for you, but do not order it from PF and expect a full refund if you don't like the ergonomics or simply remove the outer, off white cardboard box of Leica. Otherwise PF has been great and I highly recommend them. I understand this might deter those who are used to B&H's generous return policy and maybe that's the point. PF states that they will re-sell a camera as new as long as the seals are in tact, but one cannot know if a camera fits ones needs by staring at the box!
 
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Vivek

Guest
Are you very sure that they are selling used items as “new”?

I've used Popflash Photo many times in the past and prefer their more personal touch. I've purchased many Leica and Fuji digital cameras in the past and do recommend them. But I was somewhat surprised by a re-stocking fee applied to the Fuji XH1 we ordered, but returned. No more than 40 pics can be taken for a returned item to be considered, but with Fuji cameras they put a seal on the bag that once it's opened, it's not new and thus, a restocking fee of 15%! I had taken only 4 pics and 3 of those were unintentional because of the extremely sensitive shutter. I knew this camera was going back as soon as we opened it. I prefer the size and weight of the XT2 models, so back in the bag in pristine , new cond. I understand why this applies and am not arguing the fact that this is not considered new anymore, but Leica does not seal their boxes or cameras and so 40 photos can be taken, sent back to PF and resold as new. Popflash doesn't specifically state Fuji's sealed stickers in its return policy, so beware when ordering Fuji cameras. Demo a Fuji camera at a local shop and decide if it's for you, but do not order it from PF and expect a full refund if you don't like the ergonomics. Otherwise PF has been great and I highly recommend them. I also think Fuji should do away with the stickers!
 

rayyan

Well-known member
The camera is not new. It could be sold ‘ as new ‘ and the buyer accepts that.
But a returned camera, passed on to another customer, as new, would be...hmm unethical.

And with Fuji x cameras one does not know the real count of images taken.




I've used Popflash Photo many times in the past and prefer their more personal touch. I've purchased many Leica and Fuji digital cameras in the past and do recommend them. But I was somewhat surprised by a re-stocking fee applied to the Fuji XH1 we ordered, but returned. No more than 40 pics can be taken for a returned item to be considered, but with Fuji cameras they put a seal on the bag that once it's opened, it's not new and thus, a restocking fee! I had taken only 4 pics and 3 of those were unintentional because of the extremely sensitive shutter. I knew this camera was going back as soon as we opened it. I prefer the size and weight of the XT2 models, so back in the bag in pristine, new cond. I understand why this applies and am not arguing the fact that this is not considered new anymore, but Leica does not seal their cameras, but does seal the box, so this would apply to new Leica cameras too. Popflash doesn't specifically state Fuji/Leica's sealed stickers in its return policy, so beware when ordering Fuji/Leica cameras if there's a chance you might not like it. Demo a Fuji/Leica camera at a local shop and decide if it's for you, but do not order it from PF and expect a full refund if you don't like the ergonomics or simply remove the outer, off white cardboard box of Leica. Otherwise PF has been great and I highly recommend them. I understand this might deter those who are used to B&H's generous return policy and maybe that's the point. PF states that they will re-sell a camera as new as long as the seals are in tact, but one cannot know if a camera fits ones needs by staring at the box!
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I've never understood the option of buying a product, trying it out and then returning it for a full refund. If I buy stuff, it's mine, and if I haven't done my homework, it's my problem, not the camera shop's or the shop's other customers. Luckily, I live in a country where there are still plenty of camera shops around, but as mail order becomes more popular here too, I suppose it won't last.

It's a lost value, not being able to visit a shop and try out a product, and all for the convenience of having the product sent to me today, rather than buying it next week or whenever I have time to visit the shop, have a chat with the owner and a free cup of coffee.

Aaaah.. and the mail order shops are a few dollars cheaper too. I suppose that's important to some, but if I want to save money, I can keep my old camera another year... or two... or three.

"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch." Remember?
 

darr

Well-known member
If I am going to buy into a system like the Fuji, I rent first. There are a few rental options out there. After I grew tired of my Sony mirrorless, I began renting Fuji gear. I did not care too much for the XT-1, but the XPro 2 felt good in my hands. I need to shoot with a system before I purchase and renting does it for me. Yes it is expensive, but I find I do not buy more, I actually buy less after I try it all out. Different strokes.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
This is an interesting conversation. A significant cost to manufacturers is customer returns. The US happens to be the market with the most returns--at least from the data I saw when working in the business and I doubt that data has changed much. And this is not just a problem with camera. Companies like L L Bean have a lifetime satisfaction guarantee and customers will wear and use products for a long time, only to send them in for a new replacement (I worked at a company where people would return their patio furniture). Given the margins, it works for L L Bean. Not so much for cameras.

I am kind of ambivalent on the topic. Cameras a really expensive and people do make legitimate mistake. But likewise I do a lot of research before buying. I would only return a camera that was obvious not creating good images--I almost returned my X Pro2 because of smeary greens, but I did find a solution. I don't understand why size would be a reason as the size is known (but I can understand why others may feel different). Besides, it takes me a few month working with a camera to find out how it works and how I work with it. I am usually not impressed with a camera straight out of the box. Still, one thing that has changed is that camera stores are not really local anymore. Renting is a great. It might even be good for setup a demo loaner program with retailers. Actually, some rental companies do that where you can buy the camera you rented with the rental fee going toward the purchase.
 

jdphoto

Well-known member
Renting a camera is most certainly the way to do this and I thought I was sure about the Fuji XH1. But using Leica M lenses the EVF would resort to this edgy, jumpy crude TV monitor that was unusable for composition. Completely unusable for recording video without an external mic and small batteries. The batteries I knew about, but the other issues you had to use in person to experience. Renting the camera would have shown these glaring omissions somehow left out of Fuji's product description. Depending on how long you rent the camera it can also be slightly cheaper than a restocking fee. But you'll have the knowledge to decide if it's right. I have found companies like B&H, Adorama, etc. return policies perplexing as it relates to a business model. I'm sure that I've purchased new items that were in fact, used, but 30 day return policy with a factory warranty is always tempting, but I still don't want to purchase something as new if it's in fact, used. PF's return policy would mitigate this to an extent. If camera makers want to mitigate their losses from returns, they should stop sealing boxes, and camera bags. My experience with a camera doesn't take a month to decide either. If the ergonomics of a camera inspire me, I'll know that the moment I take it out of the box. Good, simple camera designs will inspire me to learn the menus quickly. In retrospect, I should have known as I actually went to a local camera store to try the Fuji XH1, but the salesman wouldn't take it out of the bag. I could only look at the box. Lesson learned.
 

Oren Grad

Active member
Companies like L L Bean have a lifetime satisfaction guarantee and customers will wear and use products for a long time, only to send them in for a new replacement (I worked at a company where people would return their patio furniture). Given the margins, it works for L L Bean. Not so much for cameras.
Point of information: L L Bean finally abandoned that policy earlier this year - too many people were abusing it:

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/02/09/l-l-bean-scraps-lifetime-return-policy/

Their revised policy is still relatively generous, though, with a one-year return period and potentially longer if it can be demonstrated that a product was defective in manufacture.
 
Because of the restocking fees, I've carefully avoided both Popflash and PhotoVillage for purchases that might have to be returned.

And I've bought some things from B&H that were open-box items at 10% off – I assume these were returns.

Kirk
 

Oren Grad

Active member
If merely breaking the seal on the box incurs a restocking fee, Popflash should be clear about that on their returns policy page. For context: I've done satisfactory business with Popflash in the past and generally consider them to have a good reputation, but a lack of up-front clarity on something like this is a concern to me.

More generally, though, it's important to pay attention to the fine print, and to check again if you're considering a major purchase, and not assume that policies remain unchanged. For example, a couple of years ago KEH changed its policy so that *used* items over $2000 now have a 20% restocking fee. (I should add that the policy doesn't affect defective items, for which they will waive the fee.)

UsedPhotoPro (Roberts) has a similar policy, but to their great credit they flag the restocking fee on every individual listing on their website to which it applies, so it's right there in your face when you're considering the purchase.
 
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