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Thread: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

  1. #51
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    The ISSUE is no HENDRIKS
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Okay the boss working it in Canyon De Chelley.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    forgot one
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Guy

    Looks like there's still plenty of water there.

    Is that the right side of Mummy Cave?

    Great to see the "inside" of Canyon de Chelly again.
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Back side of the North Rim
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Don, sorry this is on the way to Chinle. Instead of turning left to Kayenta/Monument Valley you continue like you are heading to route 59 headed to Chinle. This was taken about 200 yards before the right turn shown on the map.


    Attachment 18092

  7. #57
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Don, sorry this is on the way to Chinle. Instead of turning left to Kayenta/Monument Valley you continue like you are heading to route 59 headed to Chinle. This was taken about 200 yards before the right turn shown on the map.


    Attachment 18092
    Thanks!
    Don Libby
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Beautiful work Terry and Guy - now encourage some of the others to post as well. We all want to see more!!!

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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Hey,
    Where are my posts?
    Oh, I forgot, I couldn't make it.
    Geez I am such a dork.
    -bob

  10. #60
    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Are these housings there ancient native american sites? What tribes lived there? Just by looking at your work here, I find the places very humbling, putting ourselves back into perspective against the majestic forces of nature at work there for thousands of years.

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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by Georg Baumann View Post
    Are these housings there ancient native american sites? What tribes lived there? Just by looking at your work here, I find the places very humbling, putting ourselves back into perspective against the majestic forces of nature at work there for thousands of years.
    Georg, this may give you some good information.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canyon_...ional_Monument

    Diane

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    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Thank you Diane,

    Anasazi came to mind, just was not too sure about it. I saw a report on a chap who dedicated all his life to archeological studies in this? area. I think his operation was considered the largest open museum for Anasazi archeology, something like that. Was very fascinating to listen to theories why and when they disappeared, the way they built their shelters high up and hidden, and the theories why they did that.

    You know, I always find it funny to listen to europeans who think the USA has no or only very little history, in fact they have a much older history. ~12,000 years ago the first artificial mount structures are carbon dated, and the use of sage at this time was more than likely already established.

    These rocks always fascinated me, while being the youngest in geological terms, compared with the smokey's that were formed during the proterozoic some 600-800 million years ago, they much stronger display the forces at work, from flat out beautiful over bizarre to surreal, you find the whole whack. It is funny, our general misconecption of stone being somewhat static and not moving is so wrong, we are just too fast to see it.

    Thinking about photography, now here is challenge for the manufacturers. If we could do what James Balog did in E.I.S., the extreme ice survey:

    http://www.extremeicesurvey.org/

    only in geological terms. Now that would be a reliable hunk of camera.

  13. #63
    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Is it raining all day? Are they all hanging in a pub drinking and eating 30oz Porterhouse steaks?

  14. #64
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Couple night shots
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Guy,

    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Guy,


    Mongo like too!
    Don Libby
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Very nice Guy!!!

    . . . and it looks like someone lent him a Cube

  18. #68
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Those are 30 minute exposures . Just got home and i need to redo some of my images, my laptop color profile was corrupt and I was compensating for it and some are off. Just got home to my 30 inch display, oh the joy. Thanks folks for the comments , was a great workshop . Lots of shooting
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  19. #69
    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Guy,

    a stupid question, how do you know for how long you need to expose? Do you shoot manually and set the time before?

  20. #70
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Great question . I did a quick test ISO 1600 at 2.8 for 2 minutes than we brought it into C1. From there we started to do the math . Add 4x for 5.6 than 4 x times on time since it was underexposed . Than we multiplied from ISO 1600 to 100 which is 5 stops more light needed. Figured out it went over a hour which is too long than backed off to ISO 200 at F4 to come up with about 35 minutes. The second one was at 4 am so I switched to a 45mm lens but knew the clouds rolled in and scattered more light so I went to 5.6 on that one. Also you want to shoot east or west on the earths axis
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    "Also you want to shoot east or west on the earths axis." There's an excuse to get the new iPhone: it has a compass, and you can even choose between true north and magnetic north.

  22. #72
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    I ordered one. Maybe this week it will come
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Here a few I came up with so far. First one having some fun
    This was my first workshop ever and I had a wonderful time, thanks to Guy, Doug and the whole gang, I can't wait for the next workshop
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

  24. #74
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    My take on Monument Valley.

    This was a beautiful sight as a few horses started galloping away and I was yelling to Guy "slow down", "STOP!!!! I want to take this shot!" A900 with 24-70 from a moving car on a very bumpy completely unpaved sandy "road"



    Yes, I know everyone will say something about this shot being crooked, I think it's the land that is crooked....



    Last night, as I was working through my shots, I started thinking about processing and how I was going to set up my ongoing combined C1/Lightroom workflow. I decided to try something different in my image processing and decided to wait a day and make sure I still thought the look was interesting. Here are three of a series of shots that I desaturated along with a few other tweaks. I think I like the look but I'm only on my little laptop so I may gasp in horror when I get back to SF and my 30" monitor tomorrow.






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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Terry more great shots :-)
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Steve,
    I hadn't seen your Marble Canyon "balancing rock" scene before. That is great, very much the fun spirit of a getDPI workshops.

    As I told you, I LOVE your Horseshoe Bend shot.....for those who don't know, on Wednesday when we got to Page and pulled into the parking , the thunder and lightening started and we all bailed out and went to check into the hotel and relax. However, after the rain let up and the sun came back out, Steve decided to go back. Man did he make the right choice - great capture of the colors!!!

  27. #77
    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Here's another...
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

  28. #78
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    This was one of the best workshops I have ever attended!

    Kudos to Guy and Doug!

    First one is Antelope Canyon - at a quiet moment.

    Second one Guy at work - hanging out at the cliff

    Both P65+

  29. #79
    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Well, your workshops are a very dangerous thing to attend as far as I can tell from the distance. Addiction might be the best description for the danger. It is so evident how much fun you folks had, and not only that, but also a ton of nice results on top! Fantastic!! .... and all that without a cube.

    Guy:
    Great question . I did a quick test ISO 1600 at 2.8 for 2 minutes than we brought it into C1. From there we started to do the math . Add 4x for 5.6 than 4 x times on time since it was underexposed . Than we multiplied from ISO 1600 to 100 which is 5 stops more light needed. Figured out it went over a hour which is too long than backed off to ISO 200 at F4 to come up with about 35 minutes. The second one was at 4 am so I switched to a 45mm lens but knew the clouds rolled in and scattered more light so I went to 5.6 on that one. Also you want to shoot east or west on the earths axis
    Thanks Guy! Ok, this is going to be longer as I really try to understand every bit of it.

    Firstly, I assume the axis has importance because of the star trails. Right?

    Ok, it helps me, if I type that down here step by step. Let's see whether I got it right.

    add 4x for 5.6"
    ... The phase one with the 80mm goes like 2.8, 3.2, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5.0 and then 5.6... Looking at that I assume you added a factor for every two steps, which means the above reflects a half a stop each. Ok, I get that.

    Then you say
    than 4 x times on time since it was underexposed
    But this I do not understand, how did you come to the x4? Was this a guestimate? If so how did you guestimate?

    Than we multiplied from ISO 1600 to 100 which is 5 stops more light needed
    ISO 100 -> 200 = 1 stop
    ISO 200 -> 400 = 1 stop
    ISO 400 -> 800 = 1 stop
    ISO 800 ->1600 = 1

    Ok, I get it.... 16, 8, 4, 2, 1 = x5

    So you ended up with your original 120 sec exposure and according to the above multiplied this first by x5(for ISO 100) then by x4( for 5.6) and then by another x4 (for underexposure guestimate) which brings you to 9,600 seconds or 2 hours 40 minutes.

    Then you divided that by 2 to come to from ISO 100 to ISO 200, which brings you to 4.800 seconds or 80 minutes.

    Then you divided that by 2.5 to come from 5.6 to 4.0, which brings you to 1,920 seconds or 32 minutes.

    Pheew I think I got it.

    Ok, now the follow up questions.

    1.
    The part I did not understand was your guestimate. Can you epxlain a little more about that?

    2.
    Using this technique, and that is crucial for me to understand, I do not understand on what you focussed and how?

    3.
    So that would be the way to approach such shots, find an intersting static object, shoot a test picture at a fixed setting at High ISO and wide open, then do the math and take the shot ideally aorund 30 minutes, because afterwards the same time is added in camera to subtract from the darkframe, which means 1 hour in total that you have to wait and leave the camera in it's position. ....Hold on...or do you? Can you move the camera after it took the shot, and while it is processing the dark frame? I would asume so.

    4.
    Alternatively, and on a practical note, as I rarely have a laptop with me to do that, what external exposure meter could be used to determine the correct settings for such a task. Any recommendations?

    5.
    Last question, is there a way to have the rocks being exposed so that you can see the textures and colors, but at the same time see the star trails. Would that be able to be achieved by HDR techniques? Doing one star trail shot whereby the Rock is nothing but a silouhette, and another where the sky is total blown out but the rock is exposed?

    Thanks again Guy, and I appologise for the lengthy rant, but your answer was important and I wanted to make sure I really got it. I can only hope this is interesting enough for others here as well. But in any case, being the newbie here on the fora, I need to know if all that is too much in depth questions here, and rather not wanted for future posts, please let me know and I avoid such in depth stuff to be asked if this is too much hassle.

    Best wishes
    Georg

    P.S. On a funny note, I just realise the most important tool for such shots. -Traffic diversion posts -

    I'd be pissed if after 28 minutes a car drives through the scene.

    P.P.S Again, I realise I was not a workshop member and may be this is something you rather disucss in the closed workshop group, I would understand that. Then again, I will be a future workshop member.... by all means!
    Last edited by Georg Baumann; 21st June 2009 at 06:46.

  30. #80
    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Peter very "prestigious" post :-)
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Georg,

    After the test exposure, we took the card out of the camera and opened the file in C1 and looked to see how many stops over/under exposed it was.

    The hard part about these shots was not being set up with camera/lens combo in place before it got dark. Very hard to do the composition when you can't see anything.

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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by Georg Baumann View Post

    ... The phase one with the 80mm goes like 2.8, 3.2, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5.0 and then 5.6... Looking at that I assume you added a factor for every two steps, which means the above reflects a half a stop each. Ok, I get that.
    George:

    Each full stop is 1/2 or 2x the light of the previous. So full stops from f2.8 progress as, 2.8, 4, 5.6, 8, etc. So going from 2.8 to 5.6 is 2 full stops, 1/2 x 1/2 or 1/4th the light, and thus you need to increase the time of the exposure by 4x...

    Guy's math was off for number of stops between ISO 1600 and ISO 100, it's only 4: 800 is one, 400 is two, 200 is three and 100 is four.

    However, a good rule of thumb with any long night exposure is do the math as above, then add one stop for the tripod . Seriously, you almost never over expose them!

    And after doing all the math, with a clear sky (clouds change everything) and regardless of the phase of the moon, they almost always work out to about one hour at f4 for ISO 100.

    A sidebar note: Because of the difficulty composing through a viewfinder in almost total darkness, and because of the relatively limited apertures of f5.6 or maybe f8, I tend to shoot these with wider lenses --- wider angles of view mean you can "zone compose" by pointing the camera in the generally right direction (shoot loose and crop a bit later), and shorter lenses render greater DoF at a given aperture.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  33. #83
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Great images folks, kudos to all for such great captures!!!

    PS to Terry: Your horizons are fine -- I know the area you were shooting in and the land does slope -- plus your spires are basically straight. () Sending you a PM on a desaturation technique I like...

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  34. #84
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Thanks Jack for correcting that , still in a daze from driving. Just got in a full 8 hours sleep which i have not done since i was 12 years old. LOL

    Woke up to some wonderful images and posts . Steve they are prestigious images my friend. Looking to see more.

    Peter thanks and for you the longest traveling workshop attendee EVER . I can see you really enjoyed the trip and finally got to play with some of the nicest gear around and capture some nice images. BTW Doug raffled off a free copy of C1 Pro and Steve won it. Congrats

    Terry so where was that 135mm when we went by the horses. LOL
    BTW I like the desaturated look. I want to play with some B&W shots
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  35. #85
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Steve

    Great shoot of the balance rock in Marble Cyn. It's be interesting to see what all the shoots look like from that set.

    Horseshoe Bend is one of the hardest places to capture however you did it.

    Great work.

    Don
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  36. #86
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Something with a little different in look
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  37. #87
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Terry - Never tire of seeing Monument Valley. The horse image is great as are the others (taken near 3 sisters?).

    Now can't wait till we go there in August; thanks for giving me a quick "fix"

    Don
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Well, I've enjoyed the whole trip with all of you LOL. Hope to see more as you process. I've loved the different takes on the same scenes--and with Steve's, Terry's and Guy's shots at different times of day at Horseshoe.

    Terry, like the desaturated shots too--sometimes Southwest can be overwhelming colorwise (I still look at film shots of mine--last time I was there LOL) and say--no way--but I know they were pretty true. That's what comes of living east of the Mississippi where the light is different--rock formations and type, color of land, etc. too.

    Diane

  39. #89
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Something a little different in look
    Very nice Guy! I like the "look"
    Don Libby
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  40. #90
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Balance rock. Everyone has this identical angle. I set them up for this one at least and had them all shoot this one. I liked the gap between the mountain and rock. A composition lesson in the field
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  41. #91
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by Diane B View Post
    Well, I've enjoyed the whole trip with all of you LOL. Hope to see more as you process. I've loved the different takes on the same scenes--and with Steve's, Terry's and Guy's shots at different times of day at Horseshoe.

    Terry, like the desaturated shots too--sometimes Southwest can be overwhelming colorwise (I still look at film shots of mine--last time I was there LOL) and say--no way--but I know they were pretty true. That's what comes of living east of the Mississippi where the light is different--rock formations and type, color of land, etc. too.

    Diane
    Hi Diane We have colors here in the Southwest that'll just blow your socks off if you're not careful! I've seen the sky at sunset that comes alive with reds that make the sky look like the inside of a furnace. Then there's the red cliffs of ... well just about everywhere.

    Monument Valley is a great place to go as you can't go there without thinking/seeing the two most famous "Johns" John Wayne and John Ford. I've often thought of doing nothing but b&w in MV just to capture the mood of the place.

    Don
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  42. #92
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Creek View Post
    Very nice Guy! I like the "look"
    Thanks Don used the sepia filter in C1
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  43. #93
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Lesson learned need one more ND filter in the bag only 1/4 second at F22 but need to slow it down more. Tough to do in bright light
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Lesson learned need one more ND filter in the bag only 1/4 second at F22 but need to slow it down more. Tough to do in bright light
    I hear that! Why I normally carry a 3 stop and not a 2, and have a 6-stop tucked away specifically for moving water
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  45. #95
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    6 stop one would be perfect to have.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  46. #96
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    The road to planet Mars
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  47. #97
    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Also you want to shoot east or west on the earths axis
    Sorry, I don't understand this point. Is it something local, or a general rule-of thumb?
    Sláinte

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  48. #98
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Because the earth rotates east west, so the stars spin in that direction or we spin actually. On the North or South directions we do not spin in that direction so much leas movement of the stars we go around.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  49. #99
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    It's about the rotation of the earth and the ability to shoot star trails.

    Opps you said it better Guy!
    Don Libby
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    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: The great GetDPI Northern Arizona Workshop

    Thanks for the star trails. I have seen pix taken pointing at the pole star and the southern pole, with impressive concentric trails -- but these exposures were several hours, not just a few minutes. And also a double exposure technique -- one day light but under exposure for the foreground, then much later, several hours for the stars.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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