Site Sponsors
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 51 to 100 of 109

Thread: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

  1. #51
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,173
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    I already have a EM5. Should I upgrade? I understand the EVF/Screen is better, but the AF seems the same (I don't use 4/3 lenses and use continuous focus only rarely). To me the EM1 is quite ugly with the grip and is quite larger and heavier. How does it compare to K5II in terms of size?

    I'm really having a hard debate here.

  2. #52
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    919
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    5

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    I already have a EM5. Should I upgrade? I understand the EVF/Screen is better, but the AF seems the same (I don't use 4/3 lenses and use continuous focus only rarely). To me the EM1 is quite ugly with the grip and is quite larger and heavier. How does it compare to K5II in terms of size?

    I'm really having a hard debate here.
    in the flesh it looks much better, and is only marginally larger and perhaps heavier than an em5 with the the upper part of the grip

    if you don't need the 4/3 support and you are happy with your em5 then i would invest in glass rather than upgrading

    K

  3. #53
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,394
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    17

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by mmbma View Post
    I already have a EM5. Should I upgrade? I understand the EVF/Screen is better, but the AF seems the same (I don't use 4/3 lenses and use continuous focus only rarely). To me the EM1 is quite ugly with the grip and is quite larger and heavier. How does it compare to K5II in terms of size?

    I'm really having a hard debate here.
    I suspect there will be an upgrade from the E-M5 in due course, the E-M1 has a different character - despite being about the same size plus grip, the ergonomics are improved significantly, and the EVF is also much improved.

    Size and ergonomics are both a high priority for me - perhaps the E-M6 will hit the sweetspot for both, but in the meantime, the E-P5 kit with 17mm f1.8 + EVF and E-M1 with mZD PRO 12-40mm f2.8 will make a dream combination.

    Good luck

    Brian
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  4. #54
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Jerusalem, Israel
    Posts
    1,282
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's taking longer than it might have

    My E-M1 is on order at B&H, which originally posted a ship date of Oct 4. Amazon, which tends to be conservative so that they get the credit if things speed up, said Oct 14. Now I see that B&H no longer posts any ship date at all. This is familiar. I went through six weeks of delays in getting an E-P5 from a big Internet retailer, while they were available from small guys standing behind their counters weeks earlier.

    Fortunately, I have an [...240], not to be spoken in this forum, which will meet me in New Mexico in two weeks. And an LER/LEM adapter with one white dot!

    scott
    Last edited by scott kirkpatrick; 1st October 2013 at 00:07.

  5. #55
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    9,342
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2157

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Tried the LX7 today. Wonderful camera, and feels much more compact than the E-M1. But... I need the E-M1 first, and I can just as well start selling off my Nikon gear. It won't see any use when the Olympus arrives anyway. The Panasonic will probably lose value fast so picking up one for 50-60% of the current price should be possible in less than six months, unless I simply keep the GH2 for backup.

    Interestingly, my dealer told me that he only has pre-orders for around 15 cameras, as opposed to more than 50 when the Fuji X-Pro1 was launched. There are probably too many users around who are more than happy with their E-M5 cameras, and many who feel that they don't really need this upgrade. In many ways, it's closer to a Nikon D4 than to the smaller Olympus.
    Things I sell: https://www.shutterstock.com/g/epixx?language=en
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  6. #56
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,601
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Bart, Thank you!

  7. #57
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    9,342
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2157

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    The price of the GH3 just fell to $1,000 here. That would make a wonderful pair with the E-M1; one for photo, one for video and both can do either. This is getting complicated

    Yes, I do have a GH1 and a GH2 as well...

  8. #58
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,173
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    got a blackmagic pocket for video.. that sweet thing. very hard to use though as I am am amature

  9. #59
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    9,342
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2157

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The price of the GH3 just fell to $1,000 here. That would make a wonderful pair with the E-M1; one for photo, one for video and both can do either. This is getting complicated

    Yes, I do have a GH1 and a GH2 as well...
    I'm now officially a nutcase
    That GH3 price was for one body which was apparently being returned from a customer in "like new" condition. I'm picking it up next week and have changed my E-M1 order to kit with 12-40 mm since I'll need that lens sooner or later anyway, and with delivery in November or whenever the lens arrives. The GH2 is up for sale, and although it's my most used camera, build quality has been a constant worry.

    Not anymore. When both the new cameras arrive, I will have the best stills and the best video camera this size, both weather sealed, both loaded with features, both with excellent ergonomics and both able to work as backup for each other. The combined weight of the two is almost exactly the same as for my D700 body which I will sell also.

    Where is that PanaLeica 42.5 mm, I wonder
    Things I sell: https://www.shutterstock.com/g/epixx?language=en
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  10. #60
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Interesting about focusing in starlit darkness - I haven't seen any reports of the E-M1 performance in such low light, but on the E-P5 switching to magnified view and manual focus was necessary this evening ... followed by a 30 second exposure so focusing speed wasn't an issue.
    Yes, you can manually focus, but you can manually focus lots of cameras that way. That is besides the point- the point is the GX7 can focus in real dark (to give you a reference the E-3/E-5 were rated down to focus on -2EV. The new K-5II can focus down to -3 EV - moonlight).

    Fast continuous auto focus for moving subjects is obviously the headline feature, and will be a defining one for professional (paid) photographers.

    Cheers

    Brian
    Again, it depends on the photography you are doing. There are many types of paid professional photographers.

    For example, a wedding photographer could very well find the focusing of a GX7 better because of what I just mentioned. That said, an EM1 would look (because of the looks) better in that scenario, even if it may not perform as good as (reception at night) in focus.

    Like the EM1, the focusing on the GX7 is hyper fast, for a lot of work in overlap they both can do it. Having the GX7 being able to photograph in lower light, focusing fast *and silent* can also be a big pro once again- depending on what kind of photography you are doing. (yes, I am talking about pro paid too).

    - Ricardo

  11. #61
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    To gain customer recognition, I just bring this

    Haha :-)

    If Panasonic had a way to attach a portrait attachment to the GX7, it would work too, but my guess is that style of camera does not make the company consider it an option.

    - Ricardo

    PS: When I shot weddings with my e-420, having the big flash (FL50) and the longer lens (14-54 or 50-200) really "pumped it up."

  12. #62
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, I still find it rather odd to be comparing the two cameras?

    Sure, they use the same lenses and have the same size sensor.
    The image quality won't be that different
    I'm sure they both focus quite fast enough . . . unless you want tracking focus.

    But if you're going to use it for professional still use, I wouldn't have thought the GX7 would last for 10 minutes (especially in the rain or under a tap )

    - and if you want a quality small compact camera with excellent video then the E-M1 certainly isn't it.

    There have been a lot of people comparing the Leica M(240) with the Sony RX-1
    You should ask Jorgen. All I am saying is that it all depends what you are looking for. Also a pro camera does not have to be necessarily weather sealed- there is definitively a lot of pro work made without weather sealed cameras. Of course, if where you are going to be working is raining every half hour, it would be very convenient to have a weather sealed one.

    - Ricardo

  13. #63
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Vivek
    I wouldn't do it with an E-M1 either, but I bet the Leica would do just as well. (incidentally, it was this video that prompted my response).


    . . . . I have had the M in torrential rain, and not covered, on a number of occasions, without issue.
    The better question is- how much of the life of the camera you reduce doing that? Zack Arias I think it was had a review of a Fuji X100S where the camera went through rain (note: not 100% it was him). and "it still worked fine." Well...

    Sure. It *could still work fine* but that doesn't mean it's *the right thing to do* for a camera not rated as weather sealed. It may turn on but you may get oxidation in key components within two years, etc.

    I keep reading these wonderful non-weather sealed rated cameras performances under the rain and I wonder if anyone is tacking their usable life well :-)

    - Ricardo

  14. #64
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Tried the LX7 today. Wonderful camera, and feels much more compact than the E-M1. But... I need the E-M1 first, and I can just as well start selling off my Nikon gear. It won't see any use when the Olympus arrives anyway. The Panasonic will probably lose value fast so picking up one for 50-60% of the current price should be possible in less than six months, unless I simply keep the GH2 for backup.

    Interestingly, my dealer told me that he only has pre-orders for around 15 cameras, as opposed to more than 50 when the Fuji X-Pro1 was launched. There are probably too many users around who are more than happy with their E-M5 cameras, and many who feel that they don't really need this upgrade. In many ways, it's closer to a Nikon D4 than to the smaller Olympus.
    These are different markets. The XPro1 was aimed at a specific market and had the unique selling proposition of the (still only) hybrid view finder- no compromises in OVF vs EVF.

    The EM1 is not the mainstream or what has been the mainstream m4/3rds market, so many will view it as too expensive (right or not), you get the 4/3rds lens owner (very small market at this point) that wants the body, and the semi pro market in which you need to create/add people that would buy from the other brands.

    As a quick example-check the size of the EM1 vs a K-5iis. Not that much difference. Not that the K-5iis has a "huge market" but then consider that the market the Em1 is competing has the other brands with other models. Anyone that already has lenses will wonder why switch.

    There's then the "ok I had a full frame but I am tired of lugging big zooms/heavy lenses" which may warm up more to it, but how big is that market? (not saying it's small, just wonder how big it really is).

    Then the guys that just got the EM5 as you said.... seems a bit expected honestly.

    - Ricardo

  15. #65
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    9,342
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2157

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well, I still find it rather odd to be comparing the two cameras?
    And now there are three:
    - E-M1 for photo
    - GH3 for video
    - GX7 that does both reasonably well and is easier for travel and whenever I need something that goes into a briefcase.

    The cheap GH3 changed the equation completely, and I see the above combination as better than I could ever have hoped for. Kinder Egg Photography
    Things I sell: https://www.shutterstock.com/g/epixx?language=en
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  16. #66
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    The better question is- how much of the life of the camera you reduce doing that? Zack Arias I think it was had a review of a Fuji X100S where the camera went through rain (note: not 100% it was him). and "it still worked fine." Well...

    Sure. It *could still work fine* but that doesn't mean it's *the right thing to do* for a camera not rated as weather sealed. It may turn on but you may get oxidation in key components within two years, etc.

    I keep reading these wonderful non-weather sealed rated cameras performances under the rain and I wonder if anyone is tacking their usable life well :-)

    - Ricardo
    HI Ricardo

    The M is rated as weather sealed - otherwise I would agree with you.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

  17. #67
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Washington D.C. region
    Posts
    79
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Tried the LX7 today. Wonderful camera, and feels much more compact than the E-M1.
    And that belongs in another (sub-)forum!
    All these "X"s & "7"s --the vogue number--
    make tracking confusing (esp. in sequence
    to "GX1", where to some minds, it was the
    "X" succeeding the "F". ).

    Ming Thien, who likes/owns the Olys, does
    also like the compact LX7.

    -d

  18. #68
    Senior Member JBurnett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Bridgewater, Nova Scotia
    Posts
    530
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Hmmm. I wonder if there will be a G7 with GX7 goodies (IBIS) and a G6-styled body? That's pretty much what I was hoping the G2 would have been.
    Best regards,
    John.
    http://jburnett.ca

  19. #69
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    9,342
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2157

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by drofnad View Post
    And that belongs in another (sub-)forum!
    All these "X"s & "7"s --the vogue number--
    make tracking confusing (esp. in sequence
    to "GX1", where to some minds, it was the
    "X" succeeding the "F". ).

    Ming Thien, who likes/owns the Olys, does
    also like the compact LX7.

    -d
    Ah yes, I do need more sleep... :sleep006:

  20. #70
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Ricardo

    The M is rated as weather sealed - otherwise I would agree with you.

    all the best
    Oh the Leica M is rated as weather sealed? That I didn't know. Didn't know Leica had body and weather sealed lenses.

    - Ricardo

  21. #71
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Oh the Leica M is rated as weather sealed? That I didn't know. Didn't know Leica had body and weather sealed lenses.

    - Ricardo
    The lenses aren't rated as weather sealed - but of course, they've been used in dreadful conditions for decades on film cameras and have no electronics. The lens mount is quite good enough to stop water getting in there . . .

    At any rate - works for me (and I have tested it)

    Just this guy you know

  22. #72
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    The lenses aren't rated as weather sealed - but of course, they've been used in dreadful conditions for decades on film cameras and have no electronics. The lens mount is quite good enough to stop water getting in there . . .

    At any rate - works for me (and I have tested it)
    Well if the lenses are not weather sealed, that's just the weakest link in the system. You do not have a weather sealed system then (said now in general).

    Sure, your camera will work just like those other reviewers I mentioned. The question is, by how much the lifespan got reduced.

    - Ricardo

  23. #73
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    So two EM1 owner accounts at dpreview confirm that once lights go darker, 4/3rd lenses focus much slower. I would imagine this probably affects the CDAF/CDAF tf on m4/3rd lenses too.

    So if you use an E-3 or E-5 for a wedding during darker times of the day, it doesn't sound like an upgrade if you are playing an EM1, if you intend to use with 4/3rd lenses.

    I would still expect m4/3rd lenses to focus reasonably well even if not CDAF, I don't think darker / available light wedding receptions are an issue with S-DAF.

    - Ricardo

  24. #74
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,394
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    17

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    So two EM1 owner accounts at dpreview confirm that once lights go darker, 4/3rd lenses focus much slower. I would imagine this probably affects the CDAF/CDAF tf on m4/3rd lenses too.

    So if you use an E-3 or E-5 for a wedding during darker times of the day, it doesn't sound like an upgrade if you are playing an EM1, if you intend to use with 4/3rd lenses.

    I would still expect m4/3rd lenses to focus reasonably well even if not CDAF, I don't think darker / available light wedding receptions are an issue with S-DAF.

    - Ricardo
    Hi Ricardo,

    that sounds a bit contrived... for the vast majority of E-3/E-5 shooters, the E-M1 will be a significant upgrade in terms of speed, image quality and the ability to take the m4/3rds fast primes.

    For a wedding photographer, the prospect of using the 45mm f1.8 and 75mm f1.8 will surely be very attractive.

    Cheers

    Brian
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  25. #75
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,601
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Reality check: Who, in this day and age, would be using E3 or E5 (or 43/ m43) to shoot weddings and expect to get paid?
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  26. #76
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Well if the lenses are not weather sealed, that's just the weakest link in the system. You do not have a weather sealed system then (said now in general).
    Well the tight tolerances and lubrication in Leica lenses means that any water ingress will be very very small - nothing like enough to get into the camera through the lens mount.

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Sure, your camera will work just like those other reviewers I mentioned. The question is, by how much the lifespan got reduced.

    - Ricardo
    This is spurious Ricardo
    The question is - can you shoot it in the pouring rain without screwing the electronics.

    . . . and if you live in the UK this is a deeply relevant point.

    M9 - no
    M(240) - yes
    E-M1 - yes
    GX7 - no

    If you're thinking of life expectancy, then you better keep your camera at a constant temperature in a dust free environment with carefully controlled humidity - wear and tear is a different issue altogether.

    Just this guy you know

  27. #77
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,928
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Reality check: Who, in this day and age, would be using E3 or E5 (or 43/ m43) to shoot weddings and expect to get paid?
    Um, I know four wedding pros who use Olympus FourThirds equipment exclusively. And several folks doing event and editorial work. They have only the same difficulties booking work that any pro photographer today has. Two of them are Magnum photographers.

    G

  28. #78
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,394
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    17

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    You do surprise me Godfrey, but my earlier point stands... I'm sure they would appreciate the enhancements brought by the E-M1, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they already had an m4/3rds body as a backup somewhere already.

    Cheers

    Brian

  29. #79
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,601
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Um, I know four wedding pros who use Olympus FourThirds equipment exclusively. And several folks doing event and editorial work. They have only the same difficulties booking work that any pro photographer today has. Two of them are Magnum photographers.

    G
    Now that the 43rds is no more (no new cameras) are they still using them?!

  30. #80
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Now that the 43rds is no more (no new cameras) are they still using them?!
    @Brian/Vivek- why should/would anyone upgrade if what they are using works for them? Assuming their E-3 or E-5 does not have back focus issues, it will focus better still with 4/3rd lenses than the EM1.

    Why exactly would the E-3/E-5 stop producing good results if they ever did in the hands of a knowledgable photographer which is in the end the person that creates the photograph?

    The upgrading game is a big waste of cash if what you have already works well for your needs. Add to that the initial loss in productivity in "getting" the new equipment at an intuitive level.

    A pro in particular, would most likely have the mentality of keeping what works vs buying something new.

    - Ricardo
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  31. #81
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well the tight tolerances and lubrication in Leica lenses means that any water ingress will be very very small - nothing like enough to get into the camera through the lens mount.
    But how exactly you know this? And Why then Leica doesn't rate the lenses as weather sealed? Something has to give.


    This is spurious Ricardo
    The question is - can you shoot it in the pouring rain without screwing the electronics.

    . . . and if you live in the UK this is a deeply relevant point.
    No, it's not spurious. There's a reason why weather resistant or sealed equipment is advertised as such, and why equipment that it's not, it's not advertised as such. Remember also factors like increased humidity, etc.

    M9 - no
    M(240) - yes
    E-M1 - yes
    GX7 - no

    If you're thinking of life expectancy, then you better keep your camera at a constant temperature in a dust free environment with carefully controlled humidity - wear and tear is a different issue altogether.
    No, what I am talking about is there is a distinctive category and reason why companies advertise and tell you their equipment is weather sealed. Those who are not, will be at a disadvantage, I am not talking about what you just said in the paragraph above.

    That being the case, I have read no less than two reviews that mention shooting with a Fuji X100s in pouring rain and "the camera worked fine after wards." How much confidence that really inspires, to do exactly that when Fujifilm does not rate their camera accordingly?

    Now if Leica tells you "hey, don't worry with the M, the lenses are designed to take it" that's another matter.

    Here's another one-when I was in highschool there was an entire computer center of IBM PCJrs in a basement that goat soaked due to a major water leak in the room above. The computers were cleaned, we waited two weeks and voila. they worked! Weather resistant much?

    No, not really. They started to fail (with different issues and varying degrees of frequency) within the first year after the event. Some of the components are more impervious to waters, others start getting oxidized, etc.

    It's basically a dice roll, it's all I am saying.

    - Ricardo

  32. #82
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    Hi Ricardo,

    that sounds a bit contrived...
    How is that contrived? Shooting a wedding reception after the sun has gone down is a pretty common wedding scenario. Anyone shooting in daylight - cool, but I think it's worth mentioning for those thinking their 4/3rd lenses will work fine in any situation when they do not.

    BTW, Robin Wong himself already said that 4/3rd lenses do not focus as fast on the EM1 vs the E-5 good light or not. Certainly Olympus may be able to improve it with a firmware upgrade, but I personally wouldn't make a purchasing decision based on a "could be" like that, particularly when Olympus does not have a strong history of doing major firmware upgrades, and they really never quite fixed the SHG 14-35 F2.0 AF in lower light.

    for the vast majority of E-3/E-5 shooters, the E-M1 will be a significant upgrade in terms of speed, image quality and the ability to take the m4/3rds fast primes.
    I did not say nor imply otherwise- sorry if that wasn't clear. I was talking specifically on CDAF/phase detection use and 4/3rds lenses. I mention right there I do not expect the scenario to be a problem if you are using m4/3rd native lenses.

    If it wasn't clear, hope that clears that up.

    For a wedding photographer, the prospect of using the 45mm f1.8 and 75mm f1.8 will surely be very attractive.

    Cheers

    Brian
    Yes, I didn't say otherwise. I was referring to PDAF use for CDAF/in particular 4/3rd lenses. So yes, two accounts confirm the suspicion that as lights go down, PDAF starts to be not so hot at least for 4/3rds lenses. This mean for a wedding pro using 4/3rds, he may have to start switching to m4/3rd lenses for those scenarios.

    - Ricardo

  33. #83
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,928
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    ... BTW, Robin Wong himself already said that 4/3rd lenses do not focus as fast on the EM1 vs the E-5 good light or not. Certainly Olympus may be able to improve it with a firmware upgrade, but I personally wouldn't make a purchasing decision based on a "could be" like that, particularly when Olympus does not have a strong history of doing major firmware upgrades, and they really never quite fixed the SHG 14-35 F2.0 AF in lower light. ...
    Robin has his impressions and opinion, I have mine.

    I tested an E-M1 body with my FourThirds SLR lenses (11-22 and 35 Macro) in modest to low light (interior of a camera store). My impression is that they focus on average just as well if not more quickly on the E-M1 than they did on my E-5, and they certainly focus a lot more quickly than on my E-1. One of the other folks in the room had the 50-200 and 14-54 with them which I got to try for a moment. Again, my impression was that the difference in AF speed compared to the E-5 was negligible, and there was significant improvement over the E-1.

    I wouldn't be shooting a wedding in much lower light than that, not without additional lighting equipment anyway. (I haven't done any weddings, but I've shot other events with the E-1 ...)

    Obviously, lenses designed for Micro-FourThirds have a speed and functionality advantage. If someone doesn't expect that, they're not being sensible. But another thing to realize is that not all FourThirds SLR users owned the top of the line E-5 body. And most do not own ONLY HG and SHG lenses. Most have/had the E-xxx bodies and some the E-30, which are not as high performance as the E-5, and MOST have the SG lenses. For most of those users, the E-M1 will be a substantial improvement in focusing speed over both their DSLR body and over any other Micro-FourThirds body.

    I had no problems whatever with the focusing speed of my lenses on the E-M1 body.

    G

  34. #84
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    178
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    3

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Here are a few photos with the E-M5 set to "auto" and using a 12-60mm with the mmf3 adapter. We used the auto focus exclusively: Nick and Erica Wedding - a set on Flickr

  35. #85
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    9,342
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2157

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Reality check: Who, in this day and age, would be using E3 or E5 (or 43/ m43) to shoot weddings and expect to get paid?
    I don't use an E3 or E5, but for much of my paid work, I use a D300 and a D2Xs. Compared to an E5, those cameras have worse high ISO, no IBIS and no f/2.0 zooms, but frankly, I don't see it as a problem. I even get paid sometimes

  36. #86
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Well I put a lot of weigh to Robins statement given he is an Olympus employee an give him kudos to voice that up That said thanks for sharing your impressions.

    Please keep in mind I totally expect much better with native m4/3- nothing I wrote should imply otherwise but to the contrary.

    My initial curiosity in how well 4/3rds lenses hold with PDaf is that so far sensors with PDaf seem to lose the PDaf ability once light is not optimal- as what happens to the Nikon system- and because I still have my full set of 4/3 lenses Two accounts of em1 owners seem to corroborate the slower aF in lower light vs e-5. I'll be able to see for myself soon.

    You may not shoot in lower available light and that's great - for your needs. As for me I wouldn't expect any problems whatsoever with a m4/3 lens. And I don't show cdaf so its all good there on that end

    Thank you for sharing your impressions.

    - Ricardo

  37. #87
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    9,342
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2157

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    I do shoot low light, but I did that with film as well. Sometimes, I even changed from Velvia to Tri-X because of it

  38. #88
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,928
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Now that the 43rds is no more (no new cameras) are they still using them?!
    I've only spoken with one of them since the E-M1 was announced. He has an E-PL2 in addition to his four E-5s, mostly for snapshooting with family. Told me he was very excited about the E-M1, would be getting one to test soon.

    As others have said, there's no reason to dump good equipment that's working fine just because something new is announced. I suspect he'll get one to test and then replace current equipment as need arises.

    G

  39. #89
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,928
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    ... Two accounts of em1 owners seem to corroborate the slower aF in lower light vs e-5. ...
    Highly optimized PDAF systems like in the E-5, Nikon D4, etc, all slow down in lower light levels too. No reason to expect that the first out Olympus mFT camera with on-chip PDAF won't also show some slowing down in low light. It just makes sense that it would. The question is whether the overall performance is functional and useful. I suspect it is, even if it isn't the very fastest AF in the world.

    It's better to wait until you have a chance to evaluate the performance with a camera for yourself before stating judgements. We've all read the Ming Thein and Robin Wong reports.

    (I turn off AF quite often. NO AF system I've used, from Nikon to Canon to anyone else, works as well overall for serious work as focusing the camera with my own eyes.)

    G

  40. #90
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Highly optimized PDAF systems like in the E-5, Nikon D4, etc, all slow down in lower light levels too.
    Yes, and I said that too earlier. I mentioned that Nikon 1 in particular because at some point in lower light it *completely* loses PDaf and resorts to cdaf. Not sure on the Sony but I thought it had the same issue

    This does not mean at all I believe the em1 will necessarily do the same but it makes it to my "todo list" to verify and pay special attention too.

    The issue as mentioned by the two accounts is not just that the em1 slows down with 4/3 lenses, but that it does so more significantly saw than using an e-3/e-5.

    [quote]
    No reason to expect that the first out Olympus mFT camera with on-chip PDAF won't also show some slowing down in low light.

    [quote]

    As stated above, there are reasons for the possibility.

    It just makes sense that it would. The question is whether the overall performance is functional and useful. I suspect it is, even if it isn't the very fastest AF in the world.
    Well th question I have and my 4/3 owners have is- is it worse or better than the e-3/e-5.


    It's better to wait until you have a chance to evaluate the performance with a camera for yourself before stating judgements. We've all read the Ming Thein and Robin Wong reports.
    As I already stated, that's what I intend to do. However I not see much issue in mentioning the current observations. I mean. I don't see objections to people saying "it does the same or better." I think its valid to just
    Keep In mind if you are upgrading and specifically verify if you plan to use 4/3 lenses.

    (I turn off AF quite often. NO AF system I've used, from Nikon to Canon to anyone else, works as well overall for serious work as focusing the camera with my own eyes.)

    G
    I occasionally use full MF. But that's irrelevant to the point

    - Ricardo

  41. #91
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,928
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    This person seems quite pleased with moving to the E-M1 as a replacement for E-1, E-3 and E-5:

    E-M1 as E-5 successor - first week experience: Olympus SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

    G

  42. #92
    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Pratamnak
    Posts
    9,342
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2157

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    This person seems quite pleased with moving to the E-M1 as a replacement for E-1, E-3 and E-5:

    E-M1 as E-5 successor - first week experience: Olympus SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

    G
    Interesting to see that he uses a 50-200 Mk. I without problem, even with the EC-14

  43. #93
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    This person seems quite pleased with moving to the E-M1 as a replacement for E-1, E-3 and E-5:

    E-M1 as E-5 successor - first week experience: Olympus SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

    G
    Yes, Pris. Someone apparently with Olympus vested connections given his commentary earlier in other instances about connection to Olympus and visionaries. :-)

    There are some people whose comments have to be weighted appropriately.

    - Ricardo

  44. #94
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,928
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Yes, Pris. Someone apparently with Olympus vested connections given his commentary earlier in other instances about connection to Olympus and visionaries. :-)

    There are some people whose comments have to be weighted appropriately.

    - Ricardo
    Heavens, anyone who doesn't agree with Robin Wong (who works for Olympus) or Ming Thein (a huge Olympus supporter for years) that there might be some slowing of PDAF compared to the old top of the line Olympus E-5 in very low light is simply not at all credible in your book, eh?

    What a crock. You insist on being negative even when 99% of the people who have used or already have the camera seem to be quite happy with its performance.

    (BTW, neither Ming nor Robin have theirs yet, from what I understand reading their blogs. Both were using early production or final prototype test cameras for the articles. There might be some minor differences there too, although I doubt it.)

    Yeah, the E-M1 is just a slow pig with those old FT lenses. Why you'd be interested in one I have no idea. :-\

    G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  45. #95
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    k-hawinkler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The "Land of Enchantment"
    Posts
    3,298
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    I don't know anything about old FT cameras or lenses.
    Appropriately used I find the E-M1 to be a source of great pleasure.

    Nevertheless, in fairly low light C-AF focus can oscillate a bit with an MFT lens.
    Interesting to watch as an example of a damped oscillation.
    I have not experienced a similar behavior with S-AF though. That's good!

    I certainly wouldn't want to be without my Olympus MFT setup.
    However, I am lucky enough to have other systems to choose from, e.g. M9, D800E, NEX.
    With best regards, K-H.

  46. #96
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Heavens, anyone who doesn't agree with Robin Wong (who works for Olympus) or Ming Thein (a huge Olympus supporter for years) that there might be some slowing of PDAF compared to the old top of the line Olympus E-5 in very low light is simply not at all credible in your book, eh?

    What a crock. You insist on being negative even when 99% of the people who have used or already have the camera seem to be quite happy with its performance.
    No, it's not a crock. I insist on trying to get reliable accounts. Yes, I do put less weight to accounts of people who always have found nothing but incredibly great things to say about Olympus equipment *every single time*. Wether you want to put great weight and enthusiasm on that- it's up to you. And if you don't know Pris- just check the history at dpreview and make up your own mind- do your homework.

    If you have read anything I have said in general about the EM1 you can hardly classify it as negative- I have said I believe this is the best camera Olympus has built in a long time- and I have sang praises for the E-330/420 so that can't possibly mean something negative, can it?

    (BTW, neither Ming nor Robin have theirs yet, from what I understand reading their blogs. Both were using early production or final prototype test cameras for the articles. There might be some minor differences there too, although I doubt it.)
    Robin *works for Olympus* now. Of course he has something good to show. In fact, the fact he has been one of the consistently enthusiastic for the brand *and now works for Olympus* makes his comment all the move valid.

    Yeah, the E-M1 is just a slow pig with those old FT lenses. Why you'd be interested in one I have no idea. :-\

    G
    Wow, why would that be Godfrey? Maybe because as I have stated a few times I have an entire 4/3rds lens system still? Did you miss that?

    Or why simply because it's as interesting to discuss as anything else *in particular* for those who are looking at this camera as their E-7?

    And what does that matter, it's not like I have to justify anything. Of course, put words and intent on my mouth- I never said it was a slow pig with the lenses. I said I was interested to see what happens when it gets darker because (i) it's a common (very common) wedding working pro situation (ii) because people coming from an E-3/E-5 are going to notice that most likely (E-3/E-5 was rated to AF down to -2EV by Olympus, a stated in their very specs), (iii) because it follows from common sense that if a system as good in AF as the Nikon 1 system has this issue where it *completely ceases to use PDAF*, it's good to know whether the EM1 does that or not.

    But apparently trying to find this conclusively or discussing it instead of blindly saying it's just better or as good as an E-5 seems like a big deal to you.

    Tough.

    - Ricardo
    Last edited by raist3d; 8th October 2013 at 13:59.

  47. #97
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    jonoslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    East Anglia & Cornwall (UK)
    Posts
    11,778
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Wow, why would that be Godfrey? Maybe because as I have stated a few times I have an entire 4/3rds lens system still? Did you miss that?
    Hi Ricardo
    You are coming across as pretty negative . . . which is fine of course, but having the whole of the 43 lens lineup I would have thought that, in the face of positive reports by almost everyone (even if they aren't always apolcolyptically positive) would be enough for you to want to try one yourself and see what you think.

    dPreview said they thought it wasn't as fast as the E5 . . . . and then when they compared it they said the E5 wasn't as fast as they remembered

    You ain't going to get an E7 to go with your 90-250 . . . . but perhaps it's worth giving the E-M1 a go?

    To be honest, I wouldn't give any serious credence to anyone else's opinion of a camera (for my personal use). I don't really think you would either.

    Incidentally, I'd be much more interested in your opinion of the camera, than of your opinion of other people's opinion of the camera

    All the best

    Just this guy you know
    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

  48. #98
    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Two suitcases and the latest MBA
    Posts
    1,334
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    I have been using a GX7 for a few days now. first impressions are:

    excellent UI and grip feel; UI very customisable, except for front wheel. Very nice implementation of exp. comp.: press rear wheel, compensate. Fast and intuitive.

    very nice video, and capable of long form (2.5 hours) using AVCHD. Vital for my work.

    EVF good but not spectacular

    MF implementation excellent; having magnified window and peaking (which window can be dragged anywhere on-screen, too)

    electronic shutter, tho' limiting max. ISO to 3200, means completely silent operation; vital for my work

    touch screen true boon for portrait shooting quickly (touch screen where you think eyes will be, and frame; works very quickly).

    the 20/1.7 (third copy!) is still my favourite 4/3rd's lens

    menu system very deep, but I have reset it a few times to make sure I learn it, and I feel that once you set the camera up (there are nine Fn buttons, four hard and five soft, I think you won't need to menu dive very often

    I like it, but will also have a look at the E-M1 when I can get hold of one
    Kit Laughlin, www.StretchTherapy.net/, www.KitLaughlin.com/bodypress/
    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

  49. #99
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Ricardo
    You are coming across as pretty negative . . . which is fine of course, but having the whole of the 43 lens lineup I would have thought that, in the face of positive reports by almost everyone (even if they aren't always apolcolyptically positive) would be enough for you to want to try one yourself and see what you think.
    Jono, my experience so far is that there is a group of people to whom whatever X brand does is always good. I have found by my own experience that is not always the case. I usually come across as "very negative" exactly to that very set of people - it's not new. When I was commending the good things Is aw on the E-330/420 I never got such accusations, so it seems that unless one goes with the most positive appraisals, then it's a non issue. I don't go by that song.

    I believe I have said the Em1 looks fantastic- best camera Olympus has done in a long time (and I say that because I found the EM5 nice on many levels but not its ergonomics).

    Reading carefully you will note I am focusing on a very *very* specific feature and from one very specific context- the 4/3rds owner looking at the EM1 as "their E-7"- I even went as far as commenting I do not expect m4/3rd lenses to have a potential problem here.

    There's nothing more to it really. The only thing on the bigger picture I see missing is pro-level weather sealed primes that are fast (say Olympus doing F1.2/F1.4's) but those will probably come over time, so I am not too concerned on that end plus at least there are some reasonably good primes in the system already.

    dPreview said they thought it wasn't as fast as the E5 . . . . and then when they compared it they said the E5 wasn't as fast as they remembered

    You ain't going to get an E7 to go with your 90-250 . . . . but perhaps it's worth giving the E-M1 a go?
    As I have stated several times, I will check it out.

    To be honest, I wouldn't give any serious credence to anyone else's opinion of a camera (for my personal use). I don't really think you would either.
    In general, I don't. I am not sure what lead to that assumption about me :-) However, that said, I do put some weight for example, in a review site that has specifically tested the conditions I am talking about and has a bit of a reputation doing a reasonable good job. I normally do not take those as 100% givens, but also as points of interest to investigate further (sort of like wikipedia).

    Incidentally, I'd be much more interested in your opinion of the camera, than of your opinion of other people's opinion of the camera
    But why? I am just such a negative sod! :-) :-)

    All the best
    No worries, I am not going to avoid checking the camera because of that. I am also not discarding the positive reports (but I do sure weight as I think appropriate).

    I want everyone thinking "I am just being negative" to consider the context and history of the many superb claims made every single time a new model comes along. The pattern is so obvious by now that it's just worth to learn a bit from that.

    - Ricardo

  50. #100
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,928
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: GX7 or E-M1, suddenly, it's a dilemma

    Reported on use of Olympus 50-200 and Sigma 50-500 "Bigma" with E-M1:

    Olympus OMD E-M1 with EC 14+ 50-200 SWD vs Sigma 50-500: Olympus SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

    Summary: 50-200 + teleconverter seems to work well. Bigma not so well.

    G

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •