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Gh5

raist3d

Well-known member
Thanks Ricardo for your kind reply.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine.
Certainly, but as I will point out below, there are some parts that will fall in opinion, others in fact. The subdivision of computer science and psychology that explore human understanding/interfaces is real and without a way to get beyond mere subjective opinion, they would not exist.

Yes some"reviewers" seem to share criticism without ever getting into a camera.
That would be the case except there are some real reviewers in this list that have quite a bit of experience by now with Olympus interface, and the commentary on interface issues is pretty much at this point unanimous vs the competitors, from them. This is not a coincidence, nor is it because 'it's Olympus."

I tend to form my opinions primarily with my own hands on experiences.
To be clear, when I speak about Olympus here is from my own direct experience. I have been using several Olympus models since 4/3rds days starting with the e-volt e-300.

Obviously camera makers have quite different ideas what an UI should look like.
So I try to develop an understanding within the constraints of a particular UI.
Certainly one can learn work arounds. But a work around is not the same as not having the issue in the first place.

Olympus has a certain complex interplay of the menu, info, and okay button.
Once understanding that and their super control panel I find it easy to use.
Also knowing how to switch on and off short explanations is very helpful.
To be clear when I commented on explanations- the issue is not whether the explanations are useless or useful but that they added them as a bandaid instead of solving the increasing complexity of their UI.

In the E-M1.2 Olympus is using an additional directory layer/structure.
It enables switching menu sub panels without going into them.
As this layer is appropriately labeled it"s easy to find the way thru the menu.
You just gave a valid example of something that is better than virtually the rest of all m43rds cameras Olympus did UI wise, and an example where Olympus tried to make things better. It's still in need of simplification though. But I want to point out just how one change makes things a bit better, pointing out to the fact that Olympus UI in several areas is unnecessarily complex.

Of course, as in any UI system there are some bugs in Olympus' one as well.
So far, I have not had a problem finding easy workarounds.
Finding work arounds while better than nothing, is not better than solving the problem.

I use my OM-D cameras with their Power Battery Holders that also repeat the functional buttons. Seems to work for me.
Several of the issues I talk about that go beyond opinion have nothing to do with extra buttons on the grip.

i am also similarly familiar with the UI of various Nikon and Sony cameras and the Leica M9. Whenever I use a camera, that I have not used for awhile, it helps to briefly reflect on that particular UI and mentally go thru its menus.
Certainly. But I have been doing quite a bit at the PenF, and again, this doesn't mean the UI doesn't have issues that should be resolved.

So far I have never used a Panasonic camera but I am convinced that with dedication and some effort and time I would get used to its idiosyncrasies as well and learn how to use it efficiently and develop the necessary muscle memory for its effortless use.
But again, that's not the issue. The issue is not whether you can use muscle memory to overcome issues, but whether there are issues that could be resolved int he first place and/or competitors solved them and do better.

Can all those different UIs be improved? Sure they can, but I am not holding my breath for that to happen right away.
The Panasonic UI and several competitors are better than Olympus. So they could be improved, but they are not as in dire improvement as Olympus is. This part could be part opinion but shooting with a Panasonic and Olympus side to side reveals several obvious conveniences for the Panasonic over the Olympus.

I am going to give you just one example of a factual- not opinion, not subjective- thing that Olympus is doing right now that competitors are doing better. I think I mentioned it before- but it's the lack of AF rectangle point mode that clearly shows you where the camera will focus.

On the Panasonic, Fuji, Pentax Q, Nikon 1 J4/J5 for starters, the single focus point is clearly delineated by a white rectangle. Both Pentax and Panasonic have a small black outline so in super bright situations you can still see it, but with Fuji they get visibility in the vast majority of the cases anyway.

Olympus PenF/ OMD EM5? Not so. If you are using the view finder you can see the little alpha blended grey dark brackets. You can mark the display. With EVF not a huge problem. With LCD, particularly trying to shoot at an angle- good lord. At night? Impossible to see pretty much.

This alone makes it extremely difficult to know where you are single-point AFing. You can tap on the Olympus once to reveal it with a green outline, but now every time you take a shot you have to tap again.

Turns out Olympus has the rectangle touch / re-sizable area mode but it has several obvious issues:

- responds a bit slow (You really need to try this on the Panasonic)
- most importantly- it's completely exclusively modal with bringing the super control panel with the OK button. So you get out of that mode if you want that.
- Worse- it shares the magnification with both the super spot focus mode and the MF magnify assist (those two should be separate on their own right anyway).

What this ends up being is a *lot* of tapping, clicking and sometimes making mistakes because you are at the wrong magnification and/or mode, making this mode where you do have a visible rectangle an unnecessary PITA to use, particularly compared to what you see in other workflows.

These extra clicks are obvious. So is the fact that the other mode doesn't show you in a clear manner where you are focusing when using the LCD. This is not subjective- this is pretty factual.

The UI has several things like these. If you pick an original E-1 / e-300 you won't see this kind of complexity. Olympus just kept adding and adding getting new UI over old/keeping the old.

Anyhow, there are more examples but this should be good enough. You should really check how Panasonic implemented pin point focus- it runs circles around Olympus super spot focus.

I love the PenF raw files and color, but I decided to finally put it down in favor of using the GX850 for street life (it focuses also far faster and much more accurately overall). And later on hopefully Panasonic will release a 20 MP with new sensor GX85 or GX8 follow up and I may very well consider that as my pro camera option.

I'll keep the PenF for a bit longer. I used to shoot an event last weekend. The IBIS was nice, though IBIS is something that is starting to show up in more and more Panasonic models.

- Ricardo
 

leuallen

Member
The focus rectangle poor visibility can be fixed in the EM-1 II. The color and brightness of the rectangle can be set to anything you want. I have mine set to red and bright. It makes the focusing much easier. The downside is that if you use grid lines, they too will be colored. They become to intrusive, so I do not use grid lines anymore.

The dim focus rectangle problem has been solved. Under Cogs D3 > Grid Settings you have Preset 1 and Preset 2. Select one of them and expand. You see three settings R, G, and B. They are set 38, 38, 38 and the brightness is 75%. Select one color and jack it up to 255 and set the others to 0, I chose red. Set the brightness to 100%. Make sure that preset is selected. Now the grid lines will be too prominent so turn them off (second menu item down), the color remains and colors the focus rectangle.

Now that shows up on the monitor and we want it to show in the EVF. To do this, the EVF must be set to Style 3 (Cog I {eye} > EVF Style) and the Apply Settings EVF must be on.

Larry
 

raist3d

Well-known member
The focus rectangle poor visibility can be fixed in the EM-1 II. The color and brightness of the rectangle can be set to anything you want. I have mine set to red and bright. It makes the focusing much easier. The downside is that if you use grid lines, they too will be colored. They become to intrusive, so I do not use grid lines anymore.
This is pretty awesome. I can only hope Olympus does a "kaizen" firmware upgrade for all their cameras starting with the EM5 MKI moving forward, or at least EM5 MKII moving forward. Glad to hear it's solved on the EM1 MKII, but it's certainly not solved in every single other model.

Thanks for providing this info.

The dim focus rectangle problem has been solved. Under Cogs D3 > Grid Settings you have Preset 1 and Preset 2. Select one of them and expand. You see three settings R, G, and B. They are set 38, 38, 38 and the brightness is 75%. Select one color and jack it up to 255 and set the others to 0, I chose red. Set the brightness to 100%. Make sure that preset is selected. Now the grid lines will be too prominent so turn them off (second menu item down), the color remains and colors the focus rectangle.

Now that shows up on the monitor and we want it to show in the EVF. To do this, the EVF must be set to Style 3 (Cog I {eye} > EVF Style) and the Apply Settings EVF must be on.

Larry
I can only hope Olympus does a firmware upgrade for their previous camera. I have said that Olympus "kaizen" does not match Fuji's. The PenF is a top expensive model with virtually no firmware love.

Thanks again for confirming that Olympus at least advanced to fix a major issue on the EM1 MKII. I am certainly not buying one so to me this is not useful, but better something in a model that hopefully will expand to the new coming models than nothing.

- Ricardo
 

biglouis

Well-known member
It might be an idea for you to get a Panasonic body for the Noctitron, but there are other alternatives than the GH5. The GX8 is an excellent camera, although with less advanced IBIS that doesn't work with video.

I agree fully when it comes to 4/3 vs. m4/3 lenses. The bokeh was one of the reasons why I sold the 40-150mm f/2.8 and the E-M1 with it. I might however buy an E-M1 II later, preferably second hand, to use with 4/3 lenses. I have the Zuiko 9-18mm and PL 14-50mm f/2.8-3.5 still. Adding the 150mm f/2 would make it complete for me (I think), unless I chose to swap the PL for the Zuiko 150mm.
I'm with Jorgen on this. I can thoroughly recommend the GX80 (and by association the G80) as an excellent camera. The lack of AA filter makes a big difference imho and would benefit a lens like the Noctitron. I've started using it for macro with my 45/2.8 and I can shoot at iso1000 with noticeably less noise than my GX8. A GH5 might be overkill.

Just my 2 cents

LouisB
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I have been thinking that I don't need all the advanced features of the GH5 and I need a full frame (Nikon FX) body anyway and it's too much money and I'll wait for the GX9 etc. etc.

Then this happens: https://www.dpreview.com/news/97991...mware-update-with-a-host-of-unexpected-extras

Among other things, this really caught my attention:
"Tethered Shooting

An unexpected addition to Firmware 2.0 is the addition of a USB tethering system. Software that recreates all the camera's controls, for both stills and video shooting, will be made available, free of charge, for both Windows and Apple OS.

We'll be testing this software at some point in the coming months, but Panasonic tells us it will allow control over essentially all the camera's functions, with plenty of options such as the ability to capture and record to the computer. They also say it's designed to give control over where files are placed as they're shot, so that it can easily integrate into a workflow."

This is exactly what I need for my ongoing macro stills and video project.

Not only does this make the GH5 an even better camera than what was anticipated at launch, but it shows a willingness from Panasonic's side to go the extra mile for the customers and their user experience. I can get a GH5 and a Noct for what the D850 would cost me, and although the image quality from the Nikon is superior, the image quality of my various Panasonic bodies hasn't prevented me from getting the images that I want.

Think, think, think...
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
I have been thinking that I don't need all the advanced features of the GH5 and I need a full frame (Nikon FX) body anyway and it's too much money and I'll wait for the GX9 etc. etc.

Then this happens: https://www.dpreview.com/news/97991...mware-update-with-a-host-of-unexpected-extras

Among other things, this really caught my attention:
"Tethered Shooting

An unexpected addition to Firmware 2.0 is the addition of a USB tethering system. Software that recreates all the camera's controls, for both stills and video shooting, will be made available, free of charge, for both Windows and Apple OS.

We'll be testing this software at some point in the coming months, but Panasonic tells us it will allow control over essentially all the camera's functions, with plenty of options such as the ability to capture and record to the computer. They also say it's designed to give control over where files are placed as they're shot, so that it can easily integrate into a workflow."

This is exactly what I need for my ongoing macro stills and video project.

Not only does this make the GH5 an even better camera than what was anticipated at launch, but it shows a willingness from Panasonic's side to go the extra mile for the customers and their user experience. I can get a GH5 and a Noct for what the D850 would cost me, and although the image quality from the Nikon is superior, the image quality of my various Panasonic bodies hasn't prevented me from getting the images that I want.

Think, think, think...
Looks like a much needed update in the AF department for the GH5. While it's certainly a video powerhouse the AF performance did need quite a bit of improvement to compete with the likes of the Canon C series or the Sony Hybrid cameras. Mind you these cameras all cost $1k+ more than the GH5 (and don't offer all the features of the GH5) so that's quit every a bit of praise in favor of the GH5.

As for the comparison between Olympus and Panasonic this is an age old comparison. I think a lot of it comes down to what you want to do with it. For still photography the Olympus has the edge is performance and speed. For video Panasonic has a big edge. For IQ, it's extremely subjective but I've always preferred Panasonic's look personally. It's not to say that Olympus is bad but for me Panasonic had the edge in the color despite reputation as "an electronics company" to some. I could always see the desire to attempt to be "Leica like" from Panasonic when it comes to menu systems or lens design.

The one thing I wish wasn't so disjointed with the 4/3 Consortium is the minute difference that don't allow 100% compatibility using Panasonic lenses on Olympus bodies and vice versa. In an ideal world one wouldn't need to worry about this but on some level it makes sense to have an Olympus for stills and a Panasonic for video.

Both are great cameras though IMO and either makes a nice compliment to a FF system.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Looks like a much needed update in the AF department for the GH5. While it's certainly a video powerhouse the AF performance did need quite a bit of improvement to compete with the likes of the Canon C series or the Sony Hybrid cameras. Mind you these cameras all cost $1k+ more than the GH5 (and don't offer all the features of the GH5) so that's quit every a bit of praise in favor of the GH5.

As for the comparison between Olympus and Panasonic this is an age old comparison. I think a lot of it comes down to what you want to do with it. For still photography the Olympus has the edge is performance and speed. For video Panasonic has a big edge. For IQ, it's extremely subjective but I've always preferred Panasonic's look personally. It's not to say that Olympus is bad but for me Panasonic had the edge in the color despite reputation as "an electronics company" to some. I could always see the desire to attempt to be "Leica like" from Panasonic when it comes to menu systems or lens design.

The one thing I wish wasn't so disjointed with the 4/3 Consortium is the minute difference that don't allow 100% compatibility using Panasonic lenses on Olympus bodies and vice versa. In an ideal world one wouldn't need to worry about this but on some level it makes sense to have an Olympus for stills and a Panasonic for video.

Both are great cameras though IMO and either makes a nice compliment to a FF system.
I agree with most of what you say. The main reasons for me preferring Panasonic bodies over the Olympus are the rendering of the Panasonic lenses and the fact that only the Panasonic bodies offer dual IS with those lenses, plus ergonomics. Panasonic ergonomics are much closer to the Nikon ergonomics that I'm used to. Olympus try to mimic the OM ergonomics, but the OM cameras didn't offer ergonomics. I've been using them for 40+ years, so I should know.

When ir comes to image quality, both are good enough for my use. Video is much better with Panasonic, not so much when it comes to quality, but functionality is vastly superior.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
I agree with most of what you say. The main reasons for me preferring Panasonic bodies over the Olympus are the rendering of the Panasonic lenses and the fact that only the Panasonic bodies offer dual IS with those lenses, plus ergonomics. Panasonic ergonomics are much closer to the Nikon ergonomics that I'm used to. Olympus try to mimic the OM ergonomics, but the OM cameras didn't offer ergonomics. I've been using them for 40+ years, so I should know.

When ir comes to image quality, both are good enough for my use. Video is much better with Panasonic, not so much when it comes to quality, but functionality is vastly superior.
I haven't used an Olympus enough to compare it as extensively as I could a Panasonic but when I did own one it was enough that I have never bought another one. That's not to say the top of the line bodies aren't much better because I truly believe they are world class but if my primary purpose was photography then I'd lean towards Olympus bodies because their offerings are a bit more like what I'd own across the board... it's also hard to beat over 6 stop of in body IS with the Olympus and being able to handhold a 600mm equivalent.

I agree that the premium Panasonic lenses have more character to them. Panasonic does excel at video work in comparison. Their lenses in general are tailored for video use when compared to Olympus. I hear great things about the Veydra Mini Primes as well if you want dedicated cinema lenses and SLR Magic has inexpensive anamorphic options for Micro 4/3. It's interesting that the Panasonic reminds you of a Nikon... It's nothing like a Nikon for me personally and I've always disliked the tactile response of Nikon on account that everything is just "wrong" to me from the direction of mounting lenses to the direction of focusing. I just didn't want to have to think about all of that when trying to get the shot so I don't. That's not to say Nikon is bad because it's not but I don't get along well with them when I tried. It was what made me originally a Canon shooter when I jumped into the DSLR pool.

As they say, choice is good.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I haven't used an Olympus enough to compare it as extensively as I could a Panasonic but when I did own one it was enough that I have never bought another one. That's not to say the top of the line bodies aren't much better because I truly believe they are world class but if my primary purpose was photography then I'd lean towards Olympus bodies because their offerings are a bit more like what I'd own across the board... it's also hard to beat over 6 stop of in body IS with the Olympus and being able to handhold a 600mm equivalent.

I agree that the premium Panasonic lenses have more character to them. Panasonic does excel at video work in comparison. Their lenses in general are tailored for video use when compared to Olympus. I hear great things about the Veydra Mini Primes as well if you want dedicated cinema lenses and SLR Magic has inexpensive anamorphic options for Micro 4/3. It's interesting that the Panasonic reminds you of a Nikon... It's nothing like a Nikon for me personally and I've always disliked the tactile response of Nikon on account that everything is just "wrong" to me from the direction of mounting lenses to the direction of focusing. I just didn't want to have to think about all of that when trying to get the shot so I don't. That's not to say Nikon is bad because it's not but I don't get along well with them when I tried. It was what made me originally a Canon shooter when I jumped into the DSLR pool.

As they say, choice is good.
It's all individual of course, and I'm probably the oddball out when it comes to Panasonic vs. Olympus. I wouldn't be surprised if the E-M1 II outsells the GH5 by something like 4:1 at least among photographers, although I don't have any figures to build that upon. Most m4/3 fora are dominated by Olympus users though.

As for IS, the difference between the two brands has been shrinking dramatically the last couple of years, and Panasonic users have one big advantage vs. Olympus users, at least for now:
There are only two Zuiko lenses (300/4 and 12-100/4) that have IS and where dual IS can be implemented, while most Panasonic lenses, including many primes, offer this. The 42.5mm f/1.2 is a good example. Not only is it the only existing f/1.2 lens with IS, but it also works with dual IS on the Panasonic bodies that have IBIS.

So while I might be the oddball when it comes to camera choice, I feel very comfortable being the weirdo :loco: :ROTFL: :chug:
 

Dustbak

Member
Let me join you as a fellow weirdo. I prefer the GH5 over the Olympus. I prefer the Panasonic ergonomics over the Olympus. I just could not get to terms with the grip, button lay-out and generally the way the Olympus works.
 

biglouis

Well-known member
It is entirely personal. I like my GH5 very much. I've been using it for just over two months.

For my wildlife interests it is fantastic, especially with the 100-400. I was quite disappointed with the 100-400 with my GX8, so it is like a new lease of life with the GH5. I think perhaps shutter shock was worse than I believed.

I've used it several times for content for a book I'm working on and in situations where I literally had only a limited opportunity to photograph it worked flawlessly.

Having said that, I have also been using my GX8 for about half the time, as well. I've said it before elsewhere but picking up the GX8 is like putting on a comfortable pair of old slippers. Everything is in the right place, it feels great in the hand and it works flawlessly. The major difference between it and the GH5 is that the ergonomics of the GH5 are just about perfect. The separate buttons for all the main features make it a much more productive camera to use.

But I am sure Olympus users feel exactly the same way about their own kit. The lesson in life is shoot with what makes your comfortable and productive - and that is always a very personal thing.

Just my two cents

LouisB
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
It is entirely personal. I like my GH5 very much. I've been using it for just over two months.

For my wildlife interests it is fantastic, especially with the 100-400. I was quite disappointed with the 100-400 with my GX8, so it is like a new lease of life with the GH5. I think perhaps shutter shock was worse than I believed.

I've used it several times for content for a book I'm working on and in situations where I literally had only a limited opportunity to photograph it worked flawlessly.

Having said that, I have also been using my GX8 for about half the time, as well. I've said it before elsewhere but picking up the GX8 is like putting on a comfortable pair of old slippers. Everything is in the right place, it feels great in the hand and it works flawlessly. The major difference between it and the GH5 is that the ergonomics of the GH5 are just about perfect. The separate buttons for all the main features make it a much more productive camera to use.

But I am sure Olympus users feel exactly the same way about their own kit. The lesson in life is shoot with what makes your comfortable and productive - and that is always a very personal thing.

Just my two cents

LouisB
I fully agree with your view on the GX8. Apart from my old OM-1, I can't remember a camera that I'm so comfortable with when it comes to size, ergonomics and results. The choice for me now is either to wait for a possible GX9 and evaluate it against the GH5 or just jump into the GH5 boat right away. With all my travelling, I must say that the size and the boxy shape of the GX8 suites me very well. I had the G85 for a while, and although nominally not much bigger than the GX8, it took up much more space in my bag.
 

biglouis

Well-known member
I fully agree with your view on the GX8. Apart from my old OM-1, I can't remember a camera that I'm so comfortable with when it comes to size, ergonomics and results. The choice for me now is either to wait for a possible GX9 and evaluate it against the GH5 or just jump into the GH5 boat right away. With all my travelling, I must say that the size and the boxy shape of the GX8 suites me very well. I had the G85 for a while, and although nominally not much bigger than the GX8, it took up much more space in my bag.
I can't believe that Panasonic will not follow up the GX8 with a GX9 - the question is, when.

I bought the GH5 primarily for bird photography and it doesn't disappoint but it is a big, big beast. That is why I am still reverting to the GX8 on occasions.

I know that my wish list for the GX9 in priority order would be (a) new shutter, (b) 255-point metering, (c) updated IBIS, (d) joystick. I don't really care about the more pro benefits of the GH5, e.g. the dual card slots and all the additional buttons.

LouisB
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I know that my wish list for the GX9 in priority order would be (a) new shutter, (b) 255-point metering, (c) updated IBIS, (d) joystick. I don't really care about the more pro benefits of the GH5, e.g. the dual card slots and all the additional buttons.

LouisB
... 3.5mm microphone jack.
 
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